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.....I'm not complaining that they don't fit technological limitations? I'm complaining that I think the turret gun is too big. It looks like a Space Marine could get his head stuck in it, it's that large. Yes, thats my opinion. I'm not stating it as fact, guys. I'm looking at the hole in the middle of the barrel and I notice that it looks about as wide as the lid of a 55 gallon drum. Don't get me wrong, I like the design and crazy WWI aesthetic of the tank overall, I really do. But to me the gun is comically oversized and inconsistent with the rest of the tank. You can look at a space marine and tell that he is certainly big enough to heft a heavy bolter. You can look at a pair of Guardsmen and be reasonably sure that the 2 of them can drag around and operate an autocannon on a carriage. The gun looks off to me because the bore width gives the impression that it fires a shell the size of the guy standing in the cupola. I'm not asking for a lascannon sized gun. I'm not even asking for the overall width of the barrel to be changed. I'm just saying that the width of the hole in the barrel is too large. Hell, make the dang thing thicker so that the large calibre Guard weapons look like variations of the same principle in 40k killiness.

And cmon HBMC, it isn't like I'm the only guy around here who occasionally states his opinions strongly enough that other people think he is stating it as fact.
I've seen your tank collection pictures, I totally understand if you disagree.


EDIT:It also seems quite silly that everyone becomes nearly militant just because I didn't preface an opinion with "I think". C'mon guys, this is Dakka, not Warseer.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Looks like the tracks are the same though. I was working on some chimeras this weekend and praying it would be the last time I ever saw the track and wheel sprue (copyright 1995!).

But no.

I wager someday my sons will bitch and moan about IG tracks just like I do.

One of my buddies installed just the wheels that would show and put the rest in his bitz box. Every time he talks about my Rhinos being worthless, I remind him of how easy the tracks are to install and he shuts up for a little bit.

Railguns wrote:EDIT:It also seems quite silly that everyone becomes nearly militant just because I didn't preface an opinion with "I think". C'mon guys, this is Dakka, not Warseer.

But that's just it Railguns - you didn't think!!!!



See what I did there? I've always wanted to say something like that.

I tend to agree that the barrel is a bit silly on the Russ. However, what makes me insane is the barrel on the Vanquisher. It looks like a sewer pipe, not a weapon. I am hoping they narrow it a good bit to make it making it look like it shoots more of a railgun type slug instead of a giant exploding pickle barrel.
Ideally, it would have a different turret too, but that is probably hoping for too much.

Wehrkind wrote:I tend to agree that the barrel is a bit silly on the Russ. However, what makes me insane is the barrel on the Vanquisher. It looks like a sewer pipe, not a weapon. I am hoping they narrow it a good bit to make it making it look like it shoots more of a railgun type slug instead of a giant exploding pickle barrel.
Ideally, it would have a different turret too, but that is probably hoping for too much.

What makes this whole thing even worse is that the Vanquisher's shells no longer explode at all. I guess it must just be one giant sabot.

@Nerf: With that barrel, it's just a big slug of iron...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Railguns wrote:EDIT:It also seems quite silly that everyone becomes nearly militant just because I didn't preface an opinion with "I think". C'mon guys, this is Dakka, not Warseer.

But that's just it Railguns - you didn't think!!!!



See what I did there? I've always wanted to say something like that.

What did I not think? That people would assume I was stating an opinion as fact? I was kinda hoping we were past that Stelek business. Oh well, C'est la Vie.

Really though, I like the goofy old Lemon Russ, it's a throwback to the days when I started playing and still evokes the kind of backa$$wards "tech of the 41'st millenium, tactics of WWI" aesthetic that most of the better Guard models have (DKOK!). Would like a slight resculpt of the barrel, sure, because as it's been said it looks like a pickle barrel launcher or embiggerized mortar rather than an MBT cannon. My spacial reasoning keeps screaming that if the bore is x wide, then the shell must be x wide, which means that the turret needs y extra space just to maneuver the 55 gallon drum shells into the breech, which leaves no room for the commander to get back down into the tank, or for a loader and commander to occupy the same turret while firing(which is probably the case).

As for the new demolisher, I think I'll wait to make a judgement until I see a properly put together model. I like the lines and newer sponson weapons though. The Hellhound is fine, doesn't wow but it doesn't need to in a Guard army. It looks like a non-nonsense flamey death tank with at least some consideration given to trying to protect the fuel tanks.

Agamemnon2 wrote:The wheel sprue is a colossal waste of plastic, yes. Alas, GW designers have the misfortune of being idiots.

I happen to love the wheel and track sprues. Sure, it takes a few extra minutes to assemble. But, with minimal creativity, you can get a stock of wheel pieces, and tread pieces that make excellent stowage on your tank.

After you've got enough, you can even double-wide some of the pieces, like this looted basilisk I made back when such things were possible:


Not to mention having the pieces available for all manner of other conversions. These are what we lose when they simplify....

I also hate that they attached the ork shootas to the arms on the new boyz sprues, instead of, gasp, making you cut a handle off a gun. Because nothing's as orky without a few extra shootas lying around, and having the potential to use those bitz more than makes up for having to actually glue a gun to an arm.

Redbeard wrote:I happen to love the wheel and track sprues. Sure, it takes a few extra minutes to assemble. But, with minimal creativity, you can get a stock of wheel pieces, and tread pieces that make excellent stowage on your tank.

What's it like out in the cold? Is it lonley?

I've never met anyone - until now of course - who likes the way Guard tracks are done. They're easily one of the most unnecessary and needlessly fiddly things GW has ever come up with, and the day they die will be a good day for the hobby. The one's on the Russ can be simpler to put together (but by the time you're on your 20th Russ you can put them together with your eyes closed) but the Chimera chassis... my God... I've put together 26 of those damned things - that's 52 track sections - and they never get easier, and are always different. And then there's the Malcador Super-Heavy tank. You know the reason I didn't buy any of those tanks, despite how much I like the way they look, is because you have to stick the plastic tracks, to a resin hull, with super-glue. The thought of that gives me nightmares!!!!

No, those tracks need to go and they need to be replaced with the same system as the Land Raider. After so many Guard tanks, the Land Raiders were like a reward for putting up with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Railguns wrote:What did I not think?

Ah c'mon! I wasn't being serious. Did you not see the "" in that post. I just wanted to say that line.

Lost in internet translation I suppose.

I can't wait to do something with those vulture punisher cannons that Forgeworld is showing off. Those look really, really nice and killy, and I keep thinking of Gundam Heavyarms whenever I see them. Maybe I'll do a broadside conversion with Tau missile pods and those cannons on the arms and...

I hope Rhino tracks aren't as bad as the Chimera tracks... are they?

Railguns wrote:Lost in internet translation I suppose.

No harm no foul.

Railguns wrote:I can't wait to do something with those vulture punisher cannons that Forgeworld is showing off. Those look really, really nice and killy, and I keep thinking of Gundam Heavyarms whenever I see them. Maybe I'll do a broadside conversion with Tau missile pods and those cannons on the arms and...

If you falling over money every time you walked down your hallway, or are in a habit of lighting fires using nothing but bank notes because you have so much spare cash, you could get some of those and make them into interesting Hydras. Or one hell of a Chimera variant!!!

Personally I just want them on Vultures. I am over the moon that there is a plastic conversion kit of the Vulture. I wants me 4 o'dems! And two Vendettas. An air wing of 6 Valks, 2 Vendys and 4 Vultures sounds pretty good right?

Railguns wrote:I hope Rhino tracks aren't as bad as the Chimera tracks... are they?

Rhino tracks are a bit fiddly, but their logical-fiddly, as in they have small pieces that must go in the right order, but they're always the same, they always go in the same spot, and it makes sense over all. This is the opposite to the Guard tracks where if you start in slightly the wrong place the tracks will either be too short (leaving a gap) or too long (requiring you to cut a track piece in half). I've had to do that so many times now it's not funny. Could be worse - could be a resin Baneblade; those tracks don't actually go together at all. The Land Raider and the plastic Baneblade have the best tracks.

As soon as I find myself drowning in discretionary income, that Hydra conversion is done. So much dakka.

And as for the tank treads, I've been spoiled putting together pansy floaty tanks for Xenos armies for years and have never put together a Rhino chassis vehicle. Going to do my first one this week (hopefully) so I want to know what kind of headache I'm in for.

I actually like the new turret, cause I know everyone cares what I think.

I don't love it, but I like it flatter and wider. I also don't love the cartoonish gun barrels, etc. They're clearly meant to be cartoonish, so I accept them in that light, but I think I'd prefer something a bit more realistically proportioned, as the SM tanks tend to be.

That said, it seems like GW is pretty hesitant to revamp any of their established kits. Notice that Sentinels stayed the same, Cadians, Catachans, etc. They released new SM stuff, and it's all the same, basically.

The Orks got some NEW stuff, but it's in the same style as older stuff, save the vehicles, which are genuinely new... But then again the old Ork Trukk was so laughable, it's hard to say if it ever even existed.

They redid War Walkers and Wraithlords fairly extensively... Hard to say what motivates them to change, really.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Who's HMBC Ozy?

Her Majesty's Big Chest

H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's it like out in the cold? Is it lonley [sic]?

I've never met anyone - until now of course - who likes the way Guard tracks are done. They're easily one of the most unnecessary and needlessly fiddly things GW has ever come up with, and the day they die will be a good day for the hobby.

It all depends what you're looking for. I honestly don't think they're that bad. And, you get extras for conversions, terrain detailing, and the like. I've build scale model WWII tanks that had every single linkage as a separate piece. I'm not some newb modeller who can't figure out how to glue a few tracks together. Given the choice between a little complexity (really minimal, compared to what you get with scale models) with bonus parts, or easy-to-build with no extras for creative modeling, I'll take the complexity any day.

It's not the complexity that annoys me, it's now unnecessary it is. Why do I need to put track wheels inside it? Why not just have several large bits rather than lots of tiny bits?

Comparing it to the only other tanks around at the time - the Rhino/Predator and the Land Raider - it didn't make sense. Those two tanks just had the tracks built into the mould and they didn't need to be glued on. They could have made it far simpler because it didn't need to be so complex. The kit wasn't improved by the inclusion of muti-piece tracks.

H.B.M.C. wrote:It's not the complexity that annoys me, it's now unnecessary it is. Why do I need to put track wheels inside it? Why not just have several large bits rather than lots of tiny bits?

Comparing it to the only other tanks around at the time - the Rhino/Predator and the Land Raider - it didn't make sense. Those two tanks just had the tracks built into the mould and they didn't need to be glued on. They could have made it far simpler because it didn't need to be so complex. The kit wasn't improved by the inclusion of muti-piece tracks.

He's one hundred percent on the tracks for IG. Although they are great to add bits onto the hull they are HORRIBLE. I think I had three vehicles sitting around for three months purely because I did not mess with the tracks. After Tamiya, after the aforementioned rhino its maddening. The thing is, there's no reason for them to be so hard.

The one positive with all the wheels is that you can cut ~half a CM off the bottom (or more with proper support) on both the Leman and the chimera to show the wheels in proper tanker fashion. If done decently it really changes the image of the vehicles.

I still have a pair of Russes and my other two Hellhounds that are trackless just because I can't be bothered to put them on!!!

Yea, one of the guys at my store left off the outer armor on one of his chimeras, exposing the inner wheels and treads. It looked pretty cool, but he had to do some extra work on the side to add detail. not something I would do, but it was a really neat look.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Redbeard wrote:I happen to love the wheel and track sprues. Sure, it takes a few extra minutes to assemble. But, with minimal creativity, you can get a stock of wheel pieces, and tread pieces that make excellent stowage on your tank.

What's it like out in the cold? Is it lonley?

I've never met anyone - until now of course - who likes the way Guard tracks are done.

I LOVE them, and I've assembled over 25 IG vehicles in my time. I have a huge collection of wheels and treads left over...



Also, there is one reason the Leman Russ will never be changed. I can give all of you one very believeable reason.

Forge World.

To many kits have been made dependent on these tanks' scheme.


As for the tank itself, I like the way it looks because it IS NOT what we have today. If you play video games as much as I do, you'll know there are a trillion modern-esque/sci-fi tanks out there. Yes they are cool. How many WW1 style tanks are out there? Very very few... this is why I like the Russ, it is UNIQUE to TT and Video gaming pretty much.

I don't really care one way or the other about the tracks. I think they could be improved but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Also there is no way of knowing if GW has changed how the wheels of these tanks are done. What if they did change the wheels to being molded on and only retained the tracks as separate pieces, there isn't any really way to judge from the pictures. I'm just pointing that out; I doubt they did.

JoeyFox wrote:I LOVE them, and I've assembled over 25 IG vehicles in my time. I have a huge collection of wheels and treads left over...

When you get to 55 IG vehicles, then we'll talk. It's not fun and it's not necessary.

JoeyFox wrote:Also, there is one reason the Leman Russ will never be changed. I can give all of you one very believeable reason.

Forge World.

To many kits have been made dependent on these tanks' scheme.

That's not a reason. The resin Valk and Vulture went away with the new plastic one. The old resin Baneblades went away with the plastic one. They don't keep things around just 'cause FW made some conversion kits.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Personally I just want them on Vultures. I am over the moon that there is a plastic conversion kit of the Vulture. I wants me 4 o'dems! And two Vendettas. An air wing of 6 Valks, 2 Vendys and 4 Vultures sounds pretty good right?

Absolutely




Since this new design of the chimera and russ chassis is part of codex IG ( vehicle drawings page 50 + 53 ), but the hydra / manticore /
deathstrike are just some pics ( not a correct side view of non-released vehicles ) is it safe to assume they will stay FW?

JoeyFox wrote: I've assembled over 25 IG vehicles in my time. I have a huge collection of wheels and treads left over...

Also, there is one reason the Leman Russ will never be changed. I can give all of you one very believeable reason.
Forge World.

I've built over a dozen IG tanks, and had a bunch of wheels & tracks left over. I bought Chimera Hull & Track sprues for $6 each, allowing me to build more Chimera-hulled stuff at marginal cost.

FW will simply adapt like they did moving to Arkurian-pattern Superheavies, cancelling anything that is replaced by all-plastic. I don't see FW holding GW back.

1hadhq wrote:Since this new design of the chimera and russ chassis is part of codex IG ( vehicle drawings page 50 + 53 ), but the hydra / manticore /deathstrike are just some pics ( not a correct side view of non-released vehicles ) is it safe to assume they will stay FW?

I think its more the fact that GW didn't make their models top priorities for design. My guess is that at the time the codex was finalized, "hydra/manticore/deathstrike" were not finalized in design. While some vehicles maybe left only as models available through Forge World I don't think a lack of drawings in the codex is an immediate indicator of that.

HMBC: I am very grateful to be in a place where IG vehicles are easily aquired 2nd hand. none-the-less the reason I am hateful of the current design based upon the construction of roughly 25 of the bastard things.

DEATH TO THE WHEEL AND TRACK SPRUE!!!

DEATH TO THE WHEEL AND TRACK SPRUE!!!

DEATH TO THE WHEEL AND TRACK SPRUE!!!

HUZZAH!!!!

...wait. They aren't replacing it? SON OF A BITCH!!!

I'm not sadistic (I don't play Dark Eldar) but honestly the track and wheels don't bother me. So long as you spend some time and plan the order and dry fit the first time you build a Chimera or Russ, it easy enough to copy the sequence and positions on your next one. This also means you can work out the best use of bits and not bother placing them under the track guards (now I am pissed off they got taken out the codex but thats another matter ).

I'm not saying I wouldn't love to see an improved track set like mini-baneblades but I can live with it easily enough.

I love the new turret. I'm gonna pre-order one and convert it. I'm not liking the new sponsons as the weapons are sticking out far too much. I think I'm gonna replace the barrel with a vanquisher one from FW. Just hope it fits together better than the one in the picture.

I like the whole plastic change over-makes it a bit more affordable, but i agree, they wont change the russ-think of the uproar if they did! People would go mad!

aka_mythos wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Since this new design of the chimera and russ chassis is part of codex IG ( vehicle drawings page 50 + 53 ), but the hydra / manticore /deathstrike are just some pics ( not a correct side view of non-released vehicles ) is it safe to assume they will stay FW?

I think its more the fact that GW didn't make their models top priorities for design. My guess is that at the time the codex was finalized, "hydra/manticore/deathstrike" were not finalized in design. While some vehicles maybe left only as models available through Forge World I don't think a lack of drawings in the codex is an immediate indicator of that.

Models not top priority for GW
I agree, Gw hadn't those IG tanks ready when they shot the pics for the codex.
But all of GW's new models are identical to any drawing seen before ( from stormlord to IG at least.) and 3 tanks didn't get such presentation. Maybe youre right and its only the 18 months release window, keeping us guessing.