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So maybe killing of the two attack thing for banshees, scorpions and shining spears and better give them a higher WS?

Higher WS and lower BS.

P.S. Interesting idea with the Wraithlord aspects. Seems a bit complicated though.

I'd consider Wraithlords (with limited wargear) as elite in an Iyanden army.

I reckon assault aspects should be WS5 and BS3, same points. Also, I reckon farseers are underdone at the moment. They are useful, but Eldar are the most powerful psykers in the universe! Eldar spells should be somewhat like the ones in the Space Wolves rumours, in a word, awesome. Farseers should inspire terror when placed upon a tabletop, as opposed to minor annoyance and your opponent thinking 'Oh no, what is he up to.'

wuestenfux wrote:

So maybe killing of the two attack thing for banshees, scorpions and shining spears and better give them a higher WS?

Higher WS and lower BS.

P.S. Interesting idea with the Wraithlord aspects. Seems a bit complicated though.

I'd consider Wraithlords (with limited wargear) as elite in an Iyanden army.

Wraith lords come with 2 flamer or 2 s.catapults. can be take as elites. They may also be taken as heavy support and must take at least one heavy weapon. (while at it) Any weapon (including flamer or s.catapults.) may be TL at an additional cost of 20pts.

(Special rule) We are Legion:
Since all Wraith are a mixture of eldar spirit the Wraith Lord is capable of coordinating its shooting at multiple targets. In addition the wraith lord may charge at any one within range whether or not they've been targeted in the shooting phase.

Moreover, a Iyanden army should allow to upgrade Warlocks to Spiritseers for free.
A Farseer in an Iyanden army should be mandatory, with all those wraith sight models.

I don't think the we are legion rule is 100% fluffy. my understanding is that a single eldar spirit stone animates a wraithguard, and the wraithlords are animated by a spirit stone of someone heroic, like an autarch or a exarch.

I thought maybe iyanden could field wraithguard as aspects - like, iyanden took all their dead banshees and put them in wraithbone constructs.... but then i realized how amazing that would be.

s5, t6, i5 3+ sv.... 2 attacks each with power weapons?

It seems like to make iyanden really fluffy it needs an expansion of the normal wraithguard/lord roles, but everytime i try to come up with rules for it, it just seems so broken its silly - dark reaper wraithgaurd?

I still like the idea of a wraithlord with a d-cannon though.

Gwyidion wrote:I don't think the we are legion rule is 100% fluffy. my understanding is that a single eldar spirit stone animates a wraithguard, and the wraithlords are animated by a spirit stone of someone heroic, like an autarch or a exarch.

Just to point out that they do all ready have items powered by spirits and they're not always singular

Wraithblade: A wraithblade has sentience unto itself and guides the wielders blows. It allows the Wraithlord to re-roll failed rolls to hit in close combat

Diresword: These weapons incorporate a spirit stone in the hilt that can sear the mind of the target...

Spirit Stones: The vehicle incorporates a large spirt stone. The essence within it can control the vehicle for short periods of time should the crew be disabled ...

Exarchs ....An Exarch wears an elaborate and often ancient version of the ritual Aspect Warrior armour. He boosts his already superhuman abilities with arcane wargear and wears upon his suit the spirt stone that contains the departed spirits of all the suit's past Exarches ...

I haven't been into 40k very long but I think that these changes would be awesome.

Vypers:
Jetbike, no upgrades other than weapon, count as the third jetbike in a jetbike squad.

Swooping Hawks:
20 points, lasguns S4 AP6 R24

Autarch:
Whichever unit of aspect warriors he joins becomes scoring while he is alive and with the unit

Shining Spears:
3-10 max unit size, exarch may take a bright lance

Defender Guardians:
4+ save, heavy weapon for every 5 guardians, 10 points a model

Farseer:
Must join the seer council if the seer council is taken, may take 1 warlock power at twice the cost

Warlocks:
Should have a warlock independent character that can take 1-3 warlock powers, 45 points base,
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W2, I 4 LD9, SV 4+ inv,
may take 1-2 per HQ slot, options like normal warlock

Seercouncil:
limit 0-1 seer councils

I think that Autarch should be great for buffing aspect warriors, farseer for buffing everything, and warlock lords for buffing aspects and guardians.

Kleldar wrote:
snip

I have trouble agreeing with some of those changes.

Shining spears - making the exarch be able to take a bright lance won't fix this unit. primarily, their problem is that they get shot up too easily, and they can't stay more than one round in CC (because the second round they become s3 non power weapon pansies) I'd say drop them to 30pts/model, exchange their lances with executioners, now its a 300 pt 10 man unit with s5 power weapons. Nice and expensive and hard hitting, but not super tough. It might be too good, but its a change worth talking about.

D. Guardians - no. these guys need a point drop, and a buff, if anything. right now they are the worst troop choice going. drop to 7 points, squad size 10-20, 1 platform for every 6 guardians, warlock options remain the same.

Farseer - rework the psyker powers, but no warlock powers.

If warlocks have a IC HQ choice, he should have at least I5 (being more warlike than the farseer but not so much as the autarch), 2 attacks base, and 3 wounds. Prob WS/BS 5 too. Limit to 2 warlock powers, because they get them without psychic tests.

Shining spears - making the exarch be able to take a bright lance won't fix this unit. primarily, their problem is that they get shot up too easily, and they can't stay more than one round in CC (because the second round they become s3 non power weapon pansies) I'd say drop them to 30pts/model, exchange their lances with executioners, now its a 300 pt 10 man unit with s5 power weapons. Nice and expensive and hard hitting, but not super tough. It might be too good, but its a change worth talking about.

Well, one improvement could be that the enemy has to use night fight rule to target a unit of Shining Spears.

Farseer - rework the psyker powers, but no warlock powers.

Agreed.

D. Guardians - no. these guys need a point drop, and a buff, if anything. right now they are the worst troop choice going. drop to 7 points, squad size 10-20, 1 platform for every 6 guardians, warlock options remain the same.

Yeah, these guys need a buff and having multiple platforms in the squad seems reasonable.

Defender Guardians I think need something that makes them a decent troop choice.

Something like 4+ amour save, heavy weapon for every 5 guardians, 5-20 man squad, change in point cost

Kleldar wrote:Defender Guardians I think need something that makes them a decent troop choice.

Something like 4+ amour save, heavy weapon for every 5 guardians, 5-20 man squad, change in point cost

+1BS for defenders and +1 WS for storms. Then they'd be a bit more use full

I think that the Farseer could get an upgrade that lets him use the line of sight of warlocks for his pysker powers.

Here's an idea for a farseer power - call it, i don't know, 'focus' or something.

fluffy stuff:
The farseer clears the minds of his fellow eldar, allowing them to fight with cold rationality and poise.


Farseer targets a friendly squad within 18", that squad may choose to pass or fail any leadership tests it takes until the start of the next eldar turn. Also, this squad may not have any characteristic negatively affected by the opponent, in any way at all.
(come to think of it, this is a really good power for seer councils, as some armies rely on reducing leadership then pinning)


and because apparently space wolves are the most powerful psykers in the galaxy, all eldar farseers have wargear allowing them to cast 3 powers a turn. eldrad gets 4.

change mind war to 24" (its 18 now, isn't it?) and do no require line of sight, and explicitly deny cover and armor saves, invulnerable save may be taken as normal.

Eldritch storm - specify it does not scatter, explicitly. S4 ap6 large blast pinning. 4+2d6 against vehicles, the player controlling the farseer determines facing always.


Guide - all friendly units within 6, not one unit within 6.


And i guess to incorporate warlocks, all farseer powers that target or affect a friendly unit (such as fortune, guide, and focus) may target a unit at any range if that unit includes a warlock.

Tri wrote:

Kleldar wrote:Defender Guardians I think need something that makes them a decent troop choice.

Something like 4+ amour save, heavy weapon for every 5 guardians, 5-20 man squad, change in point cost

+1BS for defenders and +1 WS for storms. Then they'd be a bit more use full

Black Guardians of Ulthwe have those stats.
They are a bit more trained than normal Guardians, eh Poets and Philosophers.

Guardians should be made cheaper or their weapon choices should be made better.
As said, one platform for each 5 Guardians would be a decent way to improve them.

Is the craftworld codex still legal???

Kleldar wrote:Is the craftworld codex still legal???

No it isn't. Its a shame.

When looking at guardians you have to remember the poets, artisans and so on are specificly stated to be trained to act as an army when needed hence the WS/BS equivalent to an IG where most untrained units come in at a score of 2 not 3. The exception to this was Ulthwe whos entry in the craftworld codex allowed for a WS or BS increase to represent them being more trained/experienced.

Not sure if the answer is more heavy weapons in there, having a more and fire heavy is already a big thing but things like the brightlance and EML are indeed way overpriced across the board. Perhaps a points decrease to 6 points a model since AP system basicly robs them of survivability against most armies, though with everyone shouting about cover saves everywhere nullifying so many other units usefulness the cover saves should be putting their use up for a larger number fielded.

In my view though it's the 12" range that makes them such a less desirable choice, shooty army? only for a turn, then you're bogged down in close combat with unit designed to be firing at the enemy, not hacking at them.

Overall most units I think work great and have a use and should be considered for armies but some do need looking at.

Swooping hawks:
Previous editions these guys were great, fly around the battlefield dropping either str4 -1 save 2" blast or str 6 -3 save single target grenades and then using their weak gun, without needing to be out the game an entire turn and hoping for a roll on a die to be the right number to enter play.

So keep a choice of grenades (high str/ap wound allocation or lower str/ap and blast?) and ability to drop when using their jump pack move should make them a lot better. Still allowed to deep strike, keep the roll to enter if greades are dropped this way.

Shining spears:
On paper I really like these, hard hitting, high save improved toughness but looking around people are saying they are taken out too easy. Maybe allow larger squads, a points cost would HAVE to be playtested out thourghly by GW. (Yes, I know)

Vypers:
Give me back skimmer moving fast rules to be honest, I still use squadrons of these because it's my favourite model. Scouts rule added onto them maybe, but the str of defensive weapons going down really hit them hard along with the other eldar skimmers.

Aspect warriors with a bs/ws increase? 4 equals the marines scores, which are the elite fighting force apparently, all they do is train to use weapons, fine as is imo.

It has sounded like a lot of changes are being called for because of the need for synergy with the eldar, and being an army where a lot of units are highly specialised they always have needed that. Flexabilty in roles is more a marine thing not aspects

i have no problem fluffwise with ws5/bs3 banshees (or ws3/bs5 shooty aspects) simply because the eldar train as much or more than a marine (as they learn their aspect of war to perfection and nothing else) and they are eldar, which is way beyond even a marine's physical prowess (not when it comes to strength or toughness, but agility and speed? definitely).

But really, the aspect warriors aren't bad in the current edition. really, all eldar units that previously had fleet should retain fleet, but have a option to move 6" in the assault phase, instead of assaulting.

And as it stands right now, if i had 350 points to buy a full squad of shining spears, i'd spend it on wraithguard.

Gwyidion wrote:Here's an idea for a farseer power - call it, i don't know, 'focus' or something.

fluffy stuff:
The farseer clears the minds of his fellow eldar, allowing them to fight with cold rationality and poise.


Farseer targets a friendly squad within 18", that squad may choose to pass or fail any leadership tests it takes until the start of the next eldar turn. Also, this squad may not have any characteristic negatively affected by the opponent, in any way at all.
(come to think of it, this is a really good power for seer councils, as some armies rely on reducing leadership then pinning)


and because apparently space wolves are the most powerful psykers in the galaxy, all eldar farseers have wargear allowing them to cast 3 powers a turn. eldrad gets 4.

change mind war to 24" (its 18 now, isn't it?) and do no require line of sight, and explicitly deny cover and armor saves, invulnerable save may be taken as normal.

Eldritch storm - specify it does not scatter, explicitly. S4 ap6 large blast pinning. 4+2d6 against vehicles, the player controlling the farseer determines facing always.


Guide - all friendly units within 6, not one unit within 6.


And i guess to incorporate warlocks, all farseer powers that target or affect a friendly unit (such as fortune, guide, and focus) may target a unit at any range if that unit includes a warlock.

I like those ideas a lot, Maybe two powers should be standard and with spirit stones it's three.

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. I have the impression that the melee-aspect -> two attack thing I proposed wasn't that popular among you, how come? Is it too overpowered for the idicated point increase? Or do you have a problem fluffwise? IIRC, Space Marine Vanguards also have two attacks and they aren't considered overpowered at all.

P.P.S. I fell it's wrong that orks have WS 4 and elite aspect warriors are also 4. But that is more of a problem with the Ork boys I guess...

Schepp himself wrote:

Gwyidion wrote:Here's an idea for a farseer power - call it, i don't know, 'focus' or something.

fluffy stuff:
The farseer clears the minds of his fellow eldar, allowing them to fight with cold rationality and poise.


Farseer targets a friendly squad within 18", that squad may choose to pass or fail any leadership tests it takes until the start of the next eldar turn. Also, this squad may not have any characteristic negatively affected by the opponent, in any way at all.
(come to think of it, this is a really good power for seer councils, as some armies rely on reducing leadership then pinning)


and because apparently space wolves are the most powerful psykers in the galaxy, all eldar farseers have wargear allowing them to cast 3 powers a turn. eldrad gets 4.

change mind war to 24" (its 18 now, isn't it?) and do no require line of sight, and explicitly deny cover and armor saves, invulnerable save may be taken as normal.

Eldritch storm - specify it does not scatter, explicitly. S4 ap6 large blast pinning. 4+2d6 against vehicles, the player controlling the farseer determines facing always.


Guide - all friendly units within 6, not one unit within 6.


And i guess to incorporate warlocks, all farseer powers that target or affect a friendly unit (such as fortune, guide, and focus) may target a unit at any range if that unit includes a warlock.

I like those ideas a lot, Maybe two powers should be standard and with spirit stones it's three.

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. I have the impression that the melee-aspect -> two attack thing I proposed wasn't that popular among you, how come? Is it too overpowered for the idicated point increase? Or do you have a problem fluffwise? IIRC, Space Marine Vanguards also have two attacks and they aren't considered overpowered at all.

P.P.S. I fell it's wrong that orks have WS 4 and elite aspect warriors are also 4. But that is more of a problem with the Ork boys I guess...

I think the problem is more fluff wise. Aspect warriors all have the same amount of combat training and all of them have been in a different aspect before and/or will be in a different aspect later. So they should have the same profiles

I would like to see the Eldar army as a whole to be more elite, with no meatshield kind of units. Its funny that the dying race has 20 guardian lives to just throw away... They shouldnt be able to absorb firepower, except for a few special units like wraithguardetc, but rather just avoid it. For that reason, I would hate to see a points drop on the guardians, casue then they would become more of a meatshield, which you really dont want. Many of these upgrades would cause a points increase, so I wont mention since I havent been in 40K long enough to judge points that well.
Just my ideas for different units:

Across the board:
More exarch powers
Cooler exarch powers
More Powerful Exarch powers
More Exarch weapons
Cooler Exarch weapons
More Powerful Exarch Powers
Holofields- roll 2 dice and let the Eldar player pick, rather than lowest.

Cheaper BL, EML, Starcannons etc
Also, bring Starcannnons back to what they were

Warlocks
An increase to Ld 9 is kinda called for, they are meant to be leaders. New warlock powers would be cool, just to add some more variety, as at the moment they can be a bit boring. They could also do with being a bit more powerful, as the are meant to be good psykers nontheless. An I bump to 5 would also be good. The thing that I would like to see happen is that can use the singing spear in synergy with another CCW, so that it doesnt have a major disadvantage. It would also be cool o have access to 2 powers, like Destructor and Enhance, when you want to really buff a squad.

Defender Guardians: They have a 12" gun? WHY! It would be better if it was a 24" assualt 1 weapon. Also, increasing the BS would help, as well as giving the warlock that can be added to the squad a power something like shrouding. If its works for Grey KNigts itb works for Eldar . An increase of the armour save to 4+ would still be very good, to stop bolters ripping straight through.

Storm Guardians
Need to have a higher I and WS, as well as 4+ armour. Access to a couple of power swords in the, in the same style as ranged weapons would also be cool.

Farseer
Needs more powers, to put it plain. Eldar are meant to be the best, most trained psykers in the galaxy, and we get mindwar.GAH.

Autarch
Stat increase would be good, should have I 7, and also a higher WS than a SM captain! Them getting instankilled so easy annoys me, dont see what to do about it though, as they are not meant to be hit in the first place Also, the master stratgist needs to be brought in line with the new rules, strategy level 4 doesnt do anything anymore! Making any squad attached to the Autarch scoring would be good as well, but not the autarch by himself. More wargear options would make him cool, but seeing as it is only the exarchs that get the special gear, and he isnt a n exarch it doesnt work from a fluff point of view. Then again, he is supposed to be pro, so who cares .

Avatar
Pretty good as he is, there havent been any problems that Ive found, from a gaming POV. From fluff I wouldnt mind if he was better, as an semi incarnation of a war god should be more on par with a bloodthirster, but who cares

Swooping Hawks
Oh dear, where do we start..... I'll leave it to somone else

Howling Banshees
In their fluff it says they have deadly screams, and strike deadly blows with great precision. So it wouldnt make much sense for them to get more attacks, imo. What would be cool is if they hav something like whyce weapons, halving the opponents WS no matter their strength etc, instead of the absolutely useless Warshout Exarch power. I also think the masks should reduce the opponents Ld value. Giving them WS 5 would be VERY cool, but then its also irritating to see every army having a unit with WS 5. Oh well, their Eldar .

Striking Scorpions
Give them an extra attack, so they will have 2 base. It would be better if they have a higher WS than SM and Orks, but thats just too much power creep.

Harlequins
Good as they are, just the Death Jester needs to be better, so that everyone uses such a cool model

Rangers/ Pathfinders
Rangers rend on 5, Pathfinders rend on 4. Thats more like what they were in 4rth with the Ap 1 thing. Also a points decrease MIGHT be applicable

Wave Serpent
An assualt ramp would be awesome, or even just a rule allowing it to pivot without it counting as moving, for units hopping out and assualting. Veil of Tears-esque thing would be cool.

Fire Prism
Just shrouding kinda thing like above. Also clear up the thing with combining beams without being able to shoot.

Falcon
Allow it to shoot 2 weapons of the turret as one main weapon, once again shrouding, as above.

Will add more when I feel like it, so I can get past my 2 cents, and up to 4

heres an idea - rangers stay the same, pathfinders stay the same, except the pathfinder upgrade is 11 pts, and they get crack shot in the deal.


thats wishlisting.... but daaaamn.

Threeshades wrote:I think the problem is more fluff wise. Aspect warriors all have the same amount of combat training and all of them have been in a different aspect before and/or will be in a different aspect later. So they should have the same profiles.

Mh, well I thought about that, too. So either giving them all two attacks, or just boosting their respective WS/BS.

Markoftherings wrote: "lot of stuff"

Thanks for the suggestions, luckily, I have suggested many of those changes in my first post. The 4+ Armor creep is debatable. Personally, I think that it's not cool for every unit in 40k to have a 4+ save. Armor-creep isn't cool either. But that's just my opinion and I wouldn't mind if they changed that.

Greets
Schepp himself

WingWong wrote:There are a few bits n pieces which need work in the codex but I think that, generally, it's still pretty good.

I'm sorry but this just looks like a /pooreldar thread. If you put even half of those suggestions in, the list would be waaaaay too powerful. At the momemnt, it is both competitive and versatile even without the borked Jet councils etc.

Eldar, with the exception of Spears and a few other things, are kind of fine as they are.

Yeah, without Jetseer...we're completely uncompetitive in most environments. So that is....'fine as they are'? Do you hug your Marines before you go to bed too? :-P


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Schepp himself wrote:

Crystal targeting matrix i remember. I also remember the crying that occur and I believe that crying was routed in the fact that it broke a basic rule of the game.

But...it's in the game now with Tau, isn't it? So the things we teach the Tau we can't keep ourselves? I'm confused by this. I don't see why, if we're gonna have such expensive vehicles, this option can't return(getting behind full cover is hard, we can't hide behind 'Area Terrain' anymore afterall).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:COR! An Eldar Wishlist demanding lower points, more power and of course the moon on a stick! Who'dve thunk it!

It seems to fit with the prior releases of 5th edition...so...every one should have this. Or...are you as smart as the Orks you play and feel that we should still overpay and underperform with a brand new codex and be a laughed off the table army?

WTS, Trolls who don't play it to know what it's all about.

Honestly, as a non-tourny player, I'm fine with the power of the codex, I would just like some of the holes plugged (vypers, PLs, swooping hawks) and add more options and customization. I would be ok with 'craftworlds' enabled by the purchase of a specific IC (ala C:SM), for different armies.

Farseer Faenyin wrote:

Schepp himself wrote:

Crystal targeting matrix i remember. I also remember the crying that occur and I believe that crying was routed in the fact that it broke a basic rule of the game.

But...it's in the game now with Tau, isn't it? So the things we teach the Tau we can't keep ourselves? I'm confused by this. I don't see why, if we're gonna have such expensive vehicles, this option can't return(getting behind full cover is hard, we can't hide behind 'Area Terrain' anymore afterall).

True, I was thinking about the crying in the 4th edition where you could hide your vypers behind level 3 terrain. In 5th the targeting matrix could work.

Greets
Schepp himself

One change that i would agree with is that if you take a Phoenix lord that should unlock that aspect to be taken as troops.

I had some more extensive changes in mind.

Plasma Grenades: Both defensive and offensive grenades rolled into one

Guardians -> 4+, 18" catapults, price hike so they're no longer Eldar Grot cannon fodder.

ALL Aspect Warriors -> 3+ Save, many price hikes with some more changes:

Dire Avengers -> 2 CCW + Shuricat, Plasma Grenades
Hawks -> completely change the grenade dropping way, buff to the Lasblaster

A few more I can't recall of hand, but were more minor than those changes. Points costs were played around with of course.

Major change to Exarchs: Current Exarch statline goes to Aspect 'veterans' who lead squads. Exarchs go up to WS/BS6, gain an attack and wound and become pseudo independent characters. The powers go to the Aspect Squads, and Exarchs go back to individual fighting powers which give things like +1S to him only.

I put the Support Platforms into Troops, but they don't take a slot and are 1 team per Guardian unit. (still a separate unit though)

ok quick question, there arent any rules regarding the special characters such as yriel and eldrad saying they can only be fielded with their respective craftworlds is there?

ive gone through my codex, but would like to be sure so thought id ask

Avalon wrote:ok quick question, there arent any rules regarding the special characters such as yriel and eldrad saying they can only be fielded with their respective craftworlds is there?

ive gone through my codex, but would like to be sure so thought id ask

No if you don't feel fluffy about it you could be fielding bob and max. Its call counts as, all the rage.