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WingWong wrote:There are a few bits n pieces which need work in the codex but I think that, generally, it's still pretty good.

I'm sorry but this just looks like a /pooreldar thread. If you put even half of those suggestions in, the list would be waaaaay too powerful. At the momemnt, it is both competitive and versatile even without the borked Jet councils etc.

Eldar, with the exception of Spears and a few other things, are kind of fine as they are.

True but It would be nice to have some shiny new toys or just get back some of the old ones. I miss Wrath lord mounted D-cannons ...

WingWong wrote:There are a few bits n pieces which need work in the codex but I think that, generally, it's still pretty good.

I'm sorry but this just looks like a /pooreldar thread. If you put even half of those suggestions in, the list would be waaaaay too powerful. At the momemnt, it is both competitive and versatile even without the borked Jet councils etc.

It is versatile, that's what I like about it the most. The old codex didn't let me make a unique craftworld, if I wanted something unique, I had to play (unbalanced) Craftworld lists.
Questions: What is too powerful? More than a few people stated this, but failed to define what was too powerful, why so shy?

WingWong wrote:
Eldar, with the exception of Spears and a few other things, are kind of fine as they are.

I kindly disagree. Many units are more or less never taken if you play in an environment which is semi-competitive. To name those gimmicky units (imo):
- unbiked warlocks
- phoenix lords
- Wraithguard
- Harlequins (were overly popular but not anymore, due to rending nerf <- unsure)
- Guardians (most of the time only becazuse the eldar players have a chunkload of them already)
- Shining spears
- Warp spiders
- Swooping hawks
- Vypers
- Support weapon batteries
- Dark Reapers

Upping those units to bring them on par with the others is necessary. All the other changes are for the flavor only (Banshees/scorps for example)

Greets
Schepp himself

I'm one of the rare people to still use the Support weapons batteries ... I must say they've improved allot with the move to 5th. (warlock can now fire a gun yay BS4) (guardians can fire their guns at some thing else)
I think there biggest problems are being able to effectively deploy them and there's never enough Guardians to man them.

I guess one easy way to make Dark reapers and support weapons batteries better would be to combine the units. If a unit of Dark reapers could take 0-5 support weapons (+2 guardians each). Thanks to the new artillery rules any one not firing an artillery piece can fire their own gun at a single different target. And the dark reapers wouldn't be hurt having a warlock for protection.

Also What I'd give for ether unit to have scout to help get into position

Well just a though

What benefit is the scout/spotter? Does he add +1 to hit or allow rerolls for misses or scatters for inidirict fire weapons. Dark Reapers aren't HQ. What if you had Maugan Ra and give him up to three support weapons and crew.

rzsanguine wrote:What benefit is the scout/spotter? Does he add +1 to hit or allow rerolls for misses or scatters for inidirict fire weapons. Dark Reapers aren't HQ. What if you had Maugan Ra and give him up to three support weapons and crew.

I meant Scout (USR) gives you a free movement at the start of the game. So rather then first turn i having to move the Dark reapers (/SWB) to get them into a place that they can shoot from, i can do it in the scout move and have them shooting first turn from a good spot.

I have attached Maugan Ra to a D-cannon battery and the unit did rather well. My view is that DR and SWB would benefit from the pairing. Nether unit wants to be in CC, both units want to shoot. Thanks to the artillery rules even if you combine the units the 2 can still shoot at different targets (Artillery at one every thing else at the other)

I am not sure where you play, but I see these units used very well all of the time. It's only at things like GTs etc where you sere netspam lists. The guy who won the UKGT this year had pretty much everything from this list and came top 5 in heats and won the final.

Schepp himself wrote:

I kindly disagree. Many units are more or less never taken if you play in an environment which is semi-competitive. To name those gimmicky units (imo):
- unbiked warlocks These can still be nice if used in transports correctly
- phoenix lords I actually can see some uses for these but they are overpointed-
Wraithguard Again, if used right they can be devastating
- Harlequins (were overly popular but not anymore, due to rending nerf <- unsure) They are still good but you need them with the right army - they were OP before
- Guardians (most of the time only becazuse the eldar players have a chunkload of them already) Ummm. Guardians are awesome in the right list. Nuff said.
- Shining spears Agreed - they suk
- Warp spiders Er... Spiders have to be my fave aspect. They are just win & i usually take 2 units
- Swooping hawks Agreed - sweet models, rubbish rules 90% of the time
- Vypers Agreed - sweet models, rubbish rules 90% of the time
- Support weapon batteries These are still ebil is setup right
- Dark Reapers Taken a hit in 5th but they are still nasty
Falcons also need a bump now IMO
Upping those units to bring them on par with the others is necessary. All the other changes are for the flavor only (Banshees/scorps for example)

Greets
Schepp himself

I totally agree that Craftworld lists should be used again and it would be nice for some new toys and to iron out the current problems but there are sooo many codexes that need updating before eldar to bring them up to any type of balanced standard.

As to what is OP in the original list, IMO most of it is... At work so no time to reply in detail about this.

The point, Wong, is that SOME eldar things are ALWAYS taken.

If the Eldar player knows who they're playing, of course they're going to be fantastic. There's a reason why almost ever Eldar player (including myself) takes a Seer council. Its the one Eldar unit we can safely take in every list. Almost no other unit in the Eldar line can do that. Eldar players are FORCED to min-max, which is fine, we're an army of specialists, but some things are just insane.

How often have YOU played against an Eldar player who used the Falcon tank as...a tank. Probably never. Its almost always used to ferry troops. For the SAME cost (cheaper, actually, since a Prism tank does not have to take a secondary weapon), the Eldar can get a more powerful shot at longer range that can kill tanks AND infantry.

WingWong wrote:I am not sure where you play, but I see these units used very well all of the time. It's only at things like GTs etc where you sere netspam lists. The guy who won the UKGT this year had pretty much everything from this list and came top 5 in heats and won the final.

Schepp himself wrote:

I kindly disagree. Many units are more or less never taken if you play in an environment which is semi-competitive. To name those gimmicky units (imo):
- unbiked warlocks These can still be nice if used in transports correctly
- phoenix lords I actually can see some uses for these but they are overpointed-
Wraithguard Again, if used right they can be devastating
- Harlequins (were overly popular but not anymore, due to rending nerf <- unsure) They are still good but you need them with the right army - they were OP before
- Guardians (most of the time only becazuse the eldar players have a chunkload of them already) Ummm. Guardians are awesome in the right list. Nuff said.
- Shining spears Agreed - they suk
- Warp spiders Er... Spiders have to be my fave aspect. They are just win & i usually take 2 units
- Swooping hawks Agreed - sweet models, rubbish rules 90% of the time
- Vypers Agreed - sweet models, rubbish rules 90% of the time
- Support weapon batteries These are still ebil is setup right
- Dark Reapers Taken a hit in 5th but they are still nasty
Falcons also need a bump now IMO
Upping those units to bring them on par with the others is necessary. All the other changes are for the flavor only (Banshees/scorps for example)

Greets
Schepp himself

I totally agree that Craftworld lists should be used again and it would be nice for some new toys and to iron out the current problems but there are sooo many codexes that need updating before eldar to bring them up to any type of balanced standard.

As to what is OP in the original list, IMO most of it is... At work so no time to reply in detail about this.

That's sad.
But to your comments: The above list was a rough example which units i felt were underrepresented in most of the eldar lists (with competition in mind).
That they can be used effectively is a given for most of them. I also use Falcon and Reapers and they perform quite well. I also use Maugan Ra is some of my games.
What I tried was to buff all the "useless" units which are simply overpriced or don't have a clear battlefield role. The Warp spiders and Hawks come to mind. The change to flame weaponry for the Warp Spiders wasn't to nerf/buff them but to make them a bit different from each other.
I want nothing less than overpowering eldar.

Greets
Schepp himself

I would like to see a fast attack choice that was worthwhile taking. Eldar have 4 choices, 2 (hawks and vypers) of which are terribly weak and 2 (spyders and spears) of which are pricey and limited in use.

On serpents, saying that the valk/ vendetta should be nerfed instead of the serpent being improved is ... dreaming. Perhaps in the next IG codex there will be some downgrades, so we should be happy for the next 4 years that the (slow) IG have a better, cheaper and more shooty transport than the (fast) eldar?
They dont need to change the serpent model; how about just giving it scout and deepstrike to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG? Perhaps let it deploy troops after moving fast or at least droping them, again to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG?
Or drop the points a bit, again to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG?

I realize that the serpent isnt going to get upgunned to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG in that category.


Sliggoth

Sliggoth wrote:I would like to see a fast attack choice that was worthwhile taking. Eldar have 4 choices, 2 (hawks and vypers) of which are terribly weak and 2 (spyders and spears) of which are pricey and limited in use.

On serpents, saying that the valk/ vendetta should be nerfed instead of the serpent being improved is ... dreaming. Perhaps in the next IG codex there will be some downgrades, so we should be happy for the next 4 years that the (slow) IG have a better, cheaper and more shooty transport than the (fast) eldar?
They dont need to change the serpent model; how about just giving it scout and deepstrike to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG? Perhaps let it deploy troops after moving fast or at least droping them, again to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG?
Or drop the points a bit, again to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG?

I realize that the serpent isnt going to get upgunned to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG in that category.


Sliggoth

Making the Wave serpent a sleeker Valkyrie would be a bit uncreative imo. And up to 36"(with star engines) scout move
before the game starts sounds not cool. Pretty boring to be honest.

But ou're right, something has to be done with the Fast attack choices.
When I read the Planetstrike rules, it struck me that the option of taking 6 fast choices was rather useless for the eldar.

Greets
Schepp himself

I have plenty of comments on this. Some of the ideas seem fine, while other are just blatantly overpowered.



1) Toughness 7 avatars is to much. With toughness 7 not only is he immune to STR 3 shots, but plasma wounds him on a 4+ instead of a 3+. Combined with an immunity to melta/flamer , 3+ save and 4++ it makes it way to powerful.

2) 30 Point wraithguard is silly as well. A toughness 6 troop with 2 wounds a 3+ save, a 5+ cover save cause of the warlock, and a weapon that can kill anything in the game. I'm sorry doesn't anyone see this as just stupid.

3) Wraithlord. The sword and shield options are also ridiculous. 5 Rerollable attacks on the charge? a 4+ invul!! thats crazy. The model's defense is his toughness. Not his save. Because the only way to kill it is to bombard it will allot of hits. With the options you are giving it make it the single toughest model in the game aside from Ctan!


(rant on)
Imagine these three units in your army together.

Because of these rules you can have an entire army that has at least 2 wounds toughness 6+ and a cover/invul save. Which means that they only things that can actually hurt them aka meltas and plasmas have a base 50% chance to be ignored. I can't even conceive how you anyone can see this as fair. Everything single basic weapon in the game is rendered useless except for the tau gun. Furthermore these rules turn eldar into the toughest army in the game. No not nurgle, not tyrandis or orks but eldar? I mean come on think about it for a minute. Who wouldn't play this army because it just 40 times better than anything that exists in the game. Oh did I mention that they are all also fearless.

(rant off)

Those were the biggest concerns I had with the army changes you are proposing.

Striking scorpions/banshees.
Having 2 base attacks may be a little much.
Maybe WS 5 instead?

Aspect Warrior Squad Powers.

I really like the idea of having them apply to the whole squad but then must be modified to resent it applying to a whole unit.

Suggestions.
Everything else is pretty much on point.
Give dark reapers a 2+ save. They need it.
Turn vypers into attack bikes!!! 2 Wounds T4 would be so much more effective.

Sorry if I upset annyone I just feel very strongly about this.

No offense taken at all! Thanks for the feedback.

To your points:

dumplingman wrote:

1) Toughness 7 avatars is to much. With toughness 7 not only is he immune to STR 3 shots, but plasma wounds him on a 4+ instead of a 3+. Combined with an immunity to melta/flamer , 3+ save and 4++ it makes it way to powerful.

Don't see that a toughness increase for 15 points makes him suddenly too powerful but ok.

dumplingman wrote:
2) 30 Point wraithguard is silly as well. A toughness 6 troop with 2 wounds a 3+ save, a 5+ cover save cause of the warlock, and a weapon that can kill anything in the game. I'm sorry doesn't anyone see this as just stupid.

- Ok, the warlock only gives stealth to the squad, so no auto 5+ save, other than that: Wraithguard are horribly overpriced at the moment and a full unit still costs 300 points without any decent horde control firepower. But it is true that the 2W and the range increase is maybe a bit much.

dumplingman wrote:

3) Wraithlord. The sword and shield options are also ridiculous. 5 Rerollable attacks on the charge? a 4+ invul!! thats crazy. The model's defense is his toughness. Not his save. Because the only way to kill it is to bombard it will allot of hits. With the options you are giving it make it the single toughest model in the game aside from Ctan!

True, I see the old 3 Wraithlord lists with three shield/sword Wraithlord for 135 points.
Either: reducing the invl. save of the shield
or strapping the re-roll of the sword
or both

I tend to include the third choice.

dumplingman wrote:
(rant on)
Imagine these three units in your army together.

Because of these rules you can have an entire army that has at least 2 wounds toughness 6+ and a cover/invul save. Which means that they only things that can actually hurt them aka meltas and plasmas have a base 50% chance to be ignored. I can't even conceive how you anyone can see this as fair. Everything single basic weapon in the game is rendered useless except for the tau gun. Furthermore these rules turn eldar into the toughest army in the game. No not nurgle, not tyrandis or orks but eldar? I mean come on think about it for a minute. Who wouldn't play this army because it just 40 times better than anything that exists in the game. Oh did I mention that they are all also fearless.

(rant off)

This army would have a very low body count (around 450 for 3 wraithlords, 900 for 3 full squads of wraithguard), imagine what blast weapons could do to this army... but i see your point. With the aforementioned changes, this army wouldn't look so overpowering.

dumplingman wrote:
Those were the biggest concerns I had with the army changes you are proposing.

Striking scorpions/banshees.
Having 2 base attacks may be a little much.
Maybe WS 5 instead?

Aspect Warrior Squad Powers.

I really like the idea of having them apply to the whole squad but then must be modified to resent it applying to a whole unit.

Suggestions.
Everything else is pretty much on point.
Give dark reapers a 2+ save. They need it.
Turn vypers into attack bikes!!! 2 Wounds T4 would be so much more effective.

Sorry if I upset annyone I just feel very strongly about this.

I include your suggestions in the list. A 2+ save for reapers is prett nasty, especially if fortuned.
turning Vypers into attack bikes is a popular demand, either way, they would perform better, so I'm for it!
The base 2 attacks is hard, but imo suits the eldar melee aspects. Maybe the had to be more expensive then, but the aspects tend to die after they crushed the resistance due to glass-hammer-syndrome.

Since 5e basically nullified the advantage Eldar held with Fleet with the Run rule, I'd like to see an army wide special rule similar to IG's Move! Move! Move! order. Any Eldar unit with fleet rolls 3d6 and takes the highest when Running or Fleeting.

Another obvious one would be any Phoenix Lord attached to a unit of like Aspect Warriors makes that unit a scoring unit. Or maybe an Autarch attached to a unit of Aspect warriors are scoring (while I'm wishlisting).

Essentially, I'd love to see rules that enhance what I consider Eldar strengths... maneuver and Psychic powers... because you know come October, codex creep is going to make SW Rune Priests the best Psykers in the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also with the advent of Chapter Tactics, Orders, and the rumored upcoming Sagas, I think Autarchs should have some kind of "Attack Style" in a similar vein so the Autarch can buff whatever style the army is, i.e. mechanized, bike, foot-slogger, gunline, etc. Maybe something along the lines of my roll 3d6 take the highest for fleeting suggestion above, or grant the Scout USR to any Guardian Jetbike squad, or allow Waveserpent to move Flat-out and still deploy passengers as a boon to Mechdar army styles. That sort of thing.

I like the trend of the newer codices granting these specialized army-wide rules that really add to the flavor of these armies, and would think that this would be a good edition for a 5e Eldar codex.

Those are some excellent ideas, ubermosher.

Somewhere I suggested that Eldar should be able to run even if the had shot in the shooting phase, making them a very "hit-and-runny" army.

The suggestions for the Autarch were the same direction as yours, I guess. Depending on the gear, the Autarch could boost certain aspects of the army.
(Saim-Hann or Alaitoc).

Maybe an Biel-Tan autarch could make all Elite units scoring? Or would that be too powerful? I guess so.

Greets
Schepp himself

SH wings for storm guardians

Schepp himself wrote:

Somewhere I suggested that Eldar should be able to run even if the had shot in the shooting phase, making them a very "hit-and-runny" army.

Rather then have them run even if they've shot a weapons why not let all eldar make an assault move (possibly only D6") even if they've no one to assault. Would definitely make guardians useful, as they could get into range and then back off. It's not like Eldar don't already get this ability on some units.

I must say that after playing a few games against a friend's tau, maxed on crisis/stealth suits, I found myself wondering why it was eldar were renowned for speed and maneuver. I spent most of my time trying to gun down JSJ -ing suits with EML's in a decidedly stand and shoot style reminiscent of the IG. The only units we have that can move in the assault phase are jetbikes (not exactly heavy hitters) and warp spiders (doubles anyone?).

Some sort of basic mobility option would be nice, like the ability to run in the assault phase (and the shooting phase? potentially going 18" per turn...hmm....perhaps no cover saves allowed if the double run is made?). Just random musings...

Tri wrote:

Rather then have them run even if they've shot a weapons why not let all eldar make an assault move (possibly only D6") even if they've no one to assault. Would definitely make guardians useful, as they could get into range and then back off. It's not like Eldar don't already get this ability on some units.

Amalinze wrote:Some sort of basic mobility option would be nice, like the ability to run in the assault phase (and the shooting phase? potentially going 18" per turn...hmm....perhaps no cover saves allowed if the double run is made?). Just random musings...

Too many D6 would slow down the game too much, imo.
Always an assault move? Interesting. Wouldn't be too unbalancing, if you didn't combine always running with this.

Keep the ideas coming!

Greets
Schepp himself

Well, I like it - partially.
Downgrading point costs is not enough to build a new codex.

There are three issues that hurt Eldar armies:
1. Random game length.
2. Weak troop (=scoring) units.
3. Skimmers got nerfed.

Ad 1. There should be a wargear that will give the Eldar army a higher chance to end the game if the Eldar players wants this.

Ad 2. An Autarch could name an Aspect Warrior unit (Elite or FA) that counts as scoring.

Ad 3. Energy fields should be available for Falcons and Prisms. Skimmers should be cheaper. Holofields may eventually be available for Serpents. Holofields should cost less than now.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I like it - partially.
Downgrading point costs is not enough to build a new codex.

There are three issues that hurt Eldar armies:
1. Random game length.
2. Weak troop (=scoring) units.
3. Skimmers got nerfed.

Ad 1. There should be a wargear that will give the Eldar army a higher chance to end the game if the Eldar players wants this.

Ad 2. An Autarch could name an Aspect Warrior unit (Elite or FA) that counts as scoring.

Ad 3. Energy fields should be available for Falcons and Prisms. Skimmers should be cheaper. Holofields may eventually be available for Serpents. Holofields should cost less than now.

Autarch could easily be give the ability to add(/minus) 1 to the roll for the end of game.

Like the Wraithlord with the support weapon options, have been advocating as much myself.

On the Banshees. What do you think of modifying Acrobatic to where the squad has a choice of shooting or assaulting after getting out of the Wave Serp?

Next, instead of dropping points every where make the Eldar worth every point they get and then decrease unit sizes from 10 to 8 to reflect the dying race fluff. Make them an elite army that really kicks tail.

I can agree with making the avatar a little closer to what a C'tan is profile wise.

Storm Guadians-Fix them by making their pistols double barreled. This could go up the ladder into the more aasault oriented Aspects which would keep you from having to tinker with their profiles as much.

War Walkers-Move war walkers to fast attack

Falc-Make the Falc a dedicated transport option for Farseer,Pheonix Lords, and maybe Harlequins. Then make its turret count as a single weapon for the purposes of firing. Still two weapons but count as one when determing defensive/offesive vs speed traveled(They are firing at the same point by the same gunner).

Bring back the crystal targeting matrix in a new form, It reduces cover saves by 2. The reason for this is that the old CTM rule destroyed game balance.

Pheonix Lords- drop down a little in price but allow for Taking one squad of their aspect type to be taken as a troop.

Give Hawks Plasma for everyone but limit squad size way down(This is just an idea)

I feel the largest squad Eldar should be able to field is 10 strong guardian squads(11 with Warlock).

Warlocks-Fix conceal(stealth USR) and Embolden makes squad stubborn

Farseers are pretty good. Just make one or two of their powers a little better. you know the ones.

Wraithguard are troops but if your taking them then its because your access to Aspects is severly limited. If you take them then you may only include one aspect warrior squad in the army.

Like the idea of warp spiders getting a blast or flame template weapon.

Aside from these not much else I can think of right now.

Well, the changes of point costs do not make all the difference.

Scorpions should have FoF.

Fire Dragons might lose FoF but should gain armor save 3+. This would make them more durable when they disembarked.

Storm Guardians should have WS 4.

Guardian Defenders should come with BS 4. This would cause severe changes since all vehicles would then be BS 4.

Warp Spiders should have 2 basic attacks.

Shining Spears should be reduced in pt costs and lances should count as power weapons.

Serpents should come with shuricannons and stones for 90 pts.

Harlies should be able to ride a Venom as in the old Harlequin codex from Gav Thorpe. A Venom should be able to carry a 6 men squad plus an IC. It should come with a twin-linked fusion gun or a shrieker cannon.

Vypers should be upgraded so that it counts as closed vehicles for a pt increase.

I dunno, eldar seem pretty fine to me. The whole double running, or jetpack move is ludicrous though ... eldar dont need anything like that.

The only thing id like to see is a somewhat higher chance of failing psychic powers .... its what? a 3% chance to fail a power with the 3d6 discard the highest? 20 games or so against eldar in the last few months and i havent seen a single guide doom or fortune fail, ive seen 2 perils of the warp both saved by ghost helm lol. Im not talking too huge, but mabye a 10% chance to fail a cast would be more reasonable to me.

Its just obnoxious having an entire army of bs3/4 with 80% being tl weapons even before guide and doom ... Be nice to have 1 turn where i didnt have to watch 20 dice rolls 5-6 misses rerolls 1 miss if im lucky, then the wounds same deal lol.

Its just obnoxious having an entire army of bs3/4 with 80% being tl weapons even before guide and doom ... Be nice to have 1 turn where i didnt have to watch 20 dice rolls 5-6 misses rerolls 1 miss if im lucky, then the wounds same deal lol.

That's right.
Guardians should have BS 3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mimes could bring some variety to the Eldar troop section:

Mime Troupe 12 pts per model
Mime: WS 4/ BS 3/ S 3/ T 3/ W 1/ I 5/ A 1/ Ld 8/ Sv 5+
Mimic: WS 5/ BS 4/ S 3/ T 3/ W 1/ I 6/ A 2/ Ld 9/ Sv 4+

Unit Size: 5-10 models
Unit Type: Infantry

Wargear: Shuriken pistol, close combat weapon, plasma grenades.

Special Rules: Fleet of Foot, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, Stealth.

Options:

Up to two models may replace their shuriken pistols for fusion pistols or flamers; +6 pts per weapon.

Up to two models may replace their close combat weapon for Harlequin's kisses; +4 pts per kiss.

The whole unit, including the Mimic, may take haywire grenades for +1 pt per model.

Character: One unit member may be upgraded to a Mimic for +10 pts. The Mimic gives the unit the Counter-Attack universal special rule.

The Mimic may replace its close combat weapon for a Harlequin's kiss for +4 pts or a power weapon for +10 pts.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another Warlock power could be Misdirection given to the Harlequin's Shadowseer.

Any enemy unit that wishes to target or assault the shadowseer or a unit the shadowseer has joined, must take a leadership test. Failure means the unit must target or assault another unit.

This power would make even more sense if it could be combined with a power that temporarily reduces the leadership of an enemy unit.

.... god no .... no more psychic powers eldars are too good already.

Defensive powers for Warlocks are very useful for protection of an Eldar army.

yea defensive powers are cool, i would be happy with eldar getting new powers if it was paired with a inability to shoot guided troops at a doomed unit >.> Thats just so op lol 100% casualties almost every time

Well, you talk about Farseer powers while I'm talking about Warlock powers.

well yea, but im talking about in general, more powers for farseer and locks but no guide doom combos ...

Doom and guide is a nasty combo.
I'd delete runes of witnesses from the armory so that it will be harder to get two powers casted per turn.