Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have watched this very business model in action in local coffee shops - not the chains like Starbucks, the small indie shops that tens to stay open late. It goes like this:

1) Store opens. No business at first.

2) The local gamers (mainly MTG, some tabletop RPG, even some LARP) discover the place is open late. Business builds.

3) Business levels off.

4) To build new sales, the onwer decides to increase the rate of table turnover and bans all gamers. Gamers leave, never to return.

5) Sales slump.

6) Owners realize they blew it, and change their minds. But by now, the gamers have found other places to gather.

7) Store cloeses.

I have personally watched 5 cycle through that process. I have even warned three of them. And still, they do it that way every time.

Looks like GW has reached stage 4. Time will tell if they can make it work any better than the coffee shop owners did.

I don't really think they will do this to most of their stores. From what I've heard, they are doing some changes to the existing model from 10 years ago. At the time, it was put small stores in high traffic malls. Unfortunately, malls aren't doing as well as they did, they have high rent, and they dictate the hours a store must be open. As the high rent leases expire, they move the stores to a lower rent shopping center or street location. Costs go down, and the store is designed to be run by 1-2 staff at the most, with generally 1 full time salaried manage, and assistant, and possibly 1-2 part timers. Some stores may just have those 1-2 guys.

I think the area manager who talked to the OP may have been talking about what he feels the effects of these changes might be. (Guess on my part, obviously.) I don't think it's actually a plan on GW's part to cut out the hobby and play aspects from the stores, only because over the years they have been so adamant that those things sell more models. I know that copying a lot of those strategies off of GW stores led me to increase my sales of GW product in my own stores.

So maybe we are discussing something that isn't a goal, but something one person fears might happen, and may or may not occur in all GW stores. Hard to believe they would deemphsize painting, since 11% of their sales are paints.

In Houston GW has closed two stores to my knowledge, there might be a third. They relocated the store that used to be in the Willobrook plaza right across from and AMC24. The area was heavily trafficed with having the theater there and several resteraunts in the same area and the mall across the highway. The store had seven tables of which 4-6 of them were in near constant use during the weekends and summer afternoons. The new location is on the back side of a strip mall satellite building with zero visibility from the street in a stipmall anchored by a Petco, and has two tables. I tried to play a game there and couldn't even find a place to store my cases during the battle, I had to put them back in my truck. When I inquired about the decision to move the store to this location I got a deer in the headlights reaction and a stumbling explanation that all the stores in the US were downsizing and only Battle Bunkers would offer larger venues.

I can't explain it. It seems to be like a purposeful action to kill off business.

Well, as has been pointed out on other threads, GW considers 2/3 of their business to be selling the minis. The gaming aspect of it is much less important to them Given that, the change in venue to smaller stores with less gaming room makes perfect sense.

I don't know what they expect people to do with those minis if they aren't gaming with them, but there you go.

In short; GW is a toy company. Get use to it.

Well, Sworth didn't answer my questions, so I can't be sure if what he said was accurate or not. I suspect not. Or what was said is horribly misrepresented and skewed.

mikhaila wrote:Costs go down, and the store is designed to be run by 1-2 staff at the most, with generally 1 full time salaried manage, and assistant, and possibly 1-2 part timers. Some stores may just have those 1-2 guys.

IMHO, this is part of the problem, as the quality of an outlet is directly impacted by the quality of the staff. Running a shop with two staffers means that each staff member is given a heavier workload - as they are responsible for building displays and painting store armies in addition to usual retail tasks such as handling sales, answering questions, running demos, keeping the store well stocked, clean etc. If the store wanted to run their own events or support veteran's nights, this would again increase the workload of these staffers - which may help explain why GW is looking to actively discourage in-store gaming outside of chain-wide events. Overworked staff are unhappy staff, and unhappy staff don't make for the best ambassadors for the company. In addition, considering that GW doesn't pay their staffers a great wage (at least in Canada), this kind of "more for less" strategy leads to considerable churn in the store staff. While I don't expect the resultant churn to much affect the day-to-day operations of the outlet, I would think that it might be hard for the manager to grow the business when his team keeps changing.

I don't see GW's products as toys, for the most part. Of course the models are, in reality, inconsiquential objects used for the sole purpose of entertainment, so they meet the definition for toys, but most of the items one would find in a Toys 'R Us or similar stores don't require a community to really enjoy them. Video games are kind of a medium ground IMO. They are toys and require a community (unless your a hermit who sticks to single player), but access to the community is easily obtained from one's home. Yes, you can set up a table at your home or rent a space to set up tables and seek players out, but the logistics are pretty intense to do so, and let's be honest there aren't many of the gamers we see in the store or at Gamesday that we'd feel comfortable sharing our address with lol. The hobby is community driven. Take that community away or make it less accessible and sales will diminish as a result.

I went to stores for the community. I am perfectly fine, and probably more comfortable with ordering models for my army online. I would pack up my stuff and go to the store to play and socialize. I don't see myself contiuing to pay the likes for fifty dollars for five plastic men if finding people to play with becomes a chore, or I have to compromise the comfort of my home by having strangers or people that are only really tolerable in the small doses a visit to the store satisfied stopping by. That's not to be mean, but to be realistic. There's more to it, such as space requirements many people would have issues with, not having support for a fairly complex game and so on.

If selling their product is their goal then one would think that GW would be looking at ways to make the hobby more accesible. Closing down stores, or cutting down the number of tables in a normally busy store kinda goes against that grain.

mikhaila wrote:I don't really think they will do this to most of their stores. From what I've heard, they are doing some changes to the existing model from 10 years ago. At the time, it was put small stores in high traffic malls. Unfortunately, malls aren't doing as well as they did, they have high rent, and they dictate the hours a store must be open. As the high rent leases expire, they move the stores to a lower rent shopping center or street location. Costs go down, and the store is designed to be run by 1-2 staff at the most, with generally 1 full time salaried manage, and assistant, and possibly 1-2 part timers. Some stores may just have those 1-2 guys.

I think the area manager who talked to the OP may have been talking about what he feels the effects of these changes might be. (Guess on my part, obviously.) I don't think it's actually a plan on GW's part to cut out the hobby and play aspects from the stores, only because over the years they have been so adamant that those things sell more models. I know that copying a lot of those strategies off of GW stores led me to increase my sales of GW product in my own stores.

So maybe we are discussing something that isn't a goal, but something one person fears might happen, and may or may not occur in all GW stores. Hard to believe they would deemphsize painting, since 11% of their sales are paints.

This makes since. I've seen how malls are going down, and I actually go to a GW at a shopping center frequently that only has two employees most of the time. The service is great every time. I hope what you posted is what might happen, or is happening. Could my store, that came out this past summer, be a result of a new business model?

This was the SoCal district manager?

If so I know who it is, and I would NOT take this as new GW business model at all, but rather his ideal impression, which makes him... less than popular from the general customers to the red shirts.

A couple points about this guy:
-He came from outside the company, and has never really played or shown an interest in playing any of the 3 main games, to my knowledge.
-He, and he alone, wishes to get the veterans if not out of the stores then into the battle bunkers. Most veterans kinda laugh at this, since the local SoCal bunker isn't even remotely convienent for a good portion of the area.
-Did I mention he doesn't play these games? Or at least doesn't seem to: he had to ask a redshirt what the turn order was for a game of 40k, for a demo. You know, the move -> shoot -> assault one.
-He has little respect for hobbyists, and sees the product as a "widget" to sell. That's the extent of his thoughts, and it was told to a customer.
-He can be an alright guy, but he has a massive ego and has destroyed at least a table or two in his attempts to "fix" them. On his behalf, he really was attempting to fix it. He just seems to have no clue.

He wants the veterans out to make more room for newer people to buy things. Great from a short term marketing standpoint... but the stores cannot support this for a long period and it would seem a short boost at best; his lack of experience with the hobby is affecting his perception, as he seems to misunderstand the role of the veterans to such stores.

While it's a sad state and yes, can affect the local area and might have some tenets looked at by other areas, I would be in absolute shock if this were a nationwide plan; indeed as several posts in this thread have shown it's more likely not the case.

Well, the US is not the world and in other countries those changes already take place.

Vulcan wrote:I have watched this very business model in action in local coffee shops - not the chains like Starbucks, the small indie shops that tens to stay open late. It goes like this:

1) Store opens. No business at first.

2) The local gamers (mainly MTG, some tabletop RPG, even some LARP) discover the place is open late. Business builds.

3) Business levels off.

4) To build new sales, the onwer decides to increase the rate of table turnover and bans all gamers. Gamers leave, never to return.

5) Sales slump.

6) Owners realize they blew it, and change their minds. But by now, the gamers have found other places to gather.

7) Store cloeses.

I have personally watched 5 cycle through that process. I have even warned three of them. And still, they do it that way every time.

Looks like GW has reached stage 4. Time will tell if they can make it work any better than the coffee shop owners did.

I can see the comparison you're making and it's a valid one but unlike coffee shops GW sells something no one else does, their stores may lose business and even close but the company will rumble on and keep making models even if (in an extreme case) they abandoned the hobby side of things completely, outsourced the rules and stopped selling paints/tools etc. They'd still exist as a model company and that is what they do best after all.

If its not already been said, we need more stores with gaming rooms , that would solve a lot of problems. It can become so overcrowded especially on beginners days .

sworth9411 wrote:
No more hobbyist gaming in the store (other than national events etc.)
No pick me up games in the store (I.E. Meetups are allowed but Frown upon)
No more hobbying in the store
Staff should focus more on brand new clients only
Hobbiyist dont spend money, New clients spend the most amount of money on the hobby so lets focus on new clients


Lets face the facts this is an extremely niche hobby that does not appeal to everyone, why would GW intentionally alienate its hobbiyists and limit their game expierience in the store? This is kind of the vibe I am getting from this plan, and although it may work to get a stream of new hobbiyists in the door, will it be enough to keep them past their initial purchase without a large web of hobbiyists that meet up and play at the stores?

I for one never was a basement / home hobbyist and have always played strictly at stores, I also spend absurd amounts of money at GW (according to my taxes almost $4000 in 2009), I am quite upset that it could be harder to play at the stores.

It seems their investors want to see GW make more money, myself having years of retail and manafacturing expierience have one word for them....China.

I am curious to here your what you think of this rumor, so please no one stupid answers of "That Sucks, Boo all NoObs...." I would like to hear well educated opinions.

They're delusional. No I take that back. Their short sighted.

New clients spend more, in the short term. Hobbiest stay with you for decades and give a smaller stream of revenue short term, long term will out spend the new clients that buy and dont stick with it past their 18 month window.

You had to have not heard about the no playing in stores. Thats crazy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

davetaylor wrote:
There may be some new stores opened that just don't have the gaming/hobby space. I think there's one already like that in the Schaumburg Mall in Illinois, and I know there are stores like that in Japan.

When I worked in retail stores in GW Australia we never allowed pick-up games, ran specific scenarios on Thursday night Games Nights, and you could only sit at the painting table if you were getting a painting lesson from a staff member. I'm not 100% sure if it's the same now (been away for too long) but I do have to say that GW hobbyists played at home or their friend's place or at their local club (usually held in some sort of community hall) and would come into the GW store to pick up things for their army (new models, paints, etc).
In the store that I managed (Sydney City) we had a great existing community and a lot of folks who hadn't seen toy soldiers that came through the doors every day. We'd talk with everyone, learn what was going on around town, then spread the word. We helped connect new recruits with existing clubs, we help new recruits start new clubs, we talked people through building their own tables.

All without needing to have gaming tables and hobby space available for our customers, no matter what level of the hobby.

Amusingly enough, each week we turned over two, sometimes three times what some of today's US GW stores do in a week, and that was 14 years ago. My store was not the only one achieving those numbers, and I know many of my former customers are still in the hobby, because I see them on forums and visiting GW stores whenever I head back to Sydney.

What's my point?

While I haven't heard anything like what the OP heard, if it much of what he said did come to pass it would not be the end of the hobby.

The world is different from what it was 14 years ago. Times change. Not all change is a bad thing, but sometimes it can take time to see the good, in my opinion.

Cheers
Dave

Let me preface this by saying this is assuming that its all true from the original poster.

Now having gotten that out of the way. Dave, your making the same mistake as GW is:

The Japanese market is not the US market. The Australian market is not the US market. The UK market is not the US market.

If GW goes through with this stupid set up, their going to lose sales. Just like in 2001 one when they slapped down the internet sales and its going to maket them take 2 step back and years to recover again.

There's no good here. Your antagonizing your customer base. Again. GW needs to learn their markets better. Treating them all alike, which is what this road seems to do, is stupid.

I have a question. For small mall stores with a couple of tables and cramped space, is gaming for veterans and newbs really an option?

With the exception of the Battle Bunker, most shops around here are tiny mall closets whose few tables are filled with teenagers gaming. That's all well and good, but getting near 30 now (not old, just not teen) I don't feel that comfortable gaming there. On the other hand, if it was a bunch of 30 something vets gaming there, would parents really feel good about leaving their kids there while they shop? If I were a non-gamer parent I wouldn't

I think their move to micro-hobby centres that only cater to new players will work really, really well for GW's bottom line. They've started dealing more fairly with independants and are happy to have them develop game space.

My local store has
! warhammer table
1 40k table
1 LOTR table
1 small table for general use, it's not a big store

WTF??!!! This is insanely crazy, pushing aside dedicated hobbyists who have nowhere else to play other than their 'local friendly gaming store'!!! It is the only place I can play for miles around. What will happen to the beginner clubs/ battles etc and the odd Apocalypse?

Personally I cannot begin to imagine why they would do this (although I am only 14), I am speechless and outraged!!!

EDIT: About the space, at my GW (Derby), we have a large display table, one side 40k, one side Fantasy, and one side Lord of the Rings, each separated by a large decorated wall. On the end of this is space for four beginners or 'clients' to make and paint models. Then there is three 48" by 48" boards. Different scenery boards may be placed on these, making for a different battle each time. These may also be individually commissioned when unused for making and painting for veterans, eg me. Then there is a small back up table when it gets busy with gamers. In the rare case of an apocalypse battle the entire shop is used for battling, making one giant board. So we have plenty of space for gamers and 'clients' alike, although 'clients' come first the gamers are very respected and most are close friends with the shopkeepers. As the shopkeepers are still at college we tend to meet up when they are not at work.

EDIT 2: Our shop even has an upstairs and a downstairs, both unused.

I imagine the beginner clubs and escalation leagues will continue. From what it sounds like, they're just trying to minimize the people who hang out and play pick up games while maximizing organized events.

Truthfully,it makes perfect sense. GW is the big dog in the mini-gaming world and it's staple games have survived for a long time. They have a good,stable product and they know it. Now,they want to expand it and make it more mainstream instead of just a "niche game." I wouldn't be surprised at all if GW's goal is to have 40k stuff being sold in big-box stores like Target and bookstore chains like Barnes & Noble in the future,just like Magic:The Gathering and D&D books. Contrary to what seems to be the popular opinion in this thread,the whole FLGS model doesn't GROW the game. How many FLGS's do you know of that have had to expand to meet increased demand,either through acquiring a larger space or expanding into multiple stores? Not many,I can tell you.

Well,why is that? Any well-run FLGS is pretty much dependant on a social network of gamers. New people come in and join that community from time to time. At the same time,people LEAVE that community from time to time,as well,for various reasons. The FLGS's survives by adding enough people to that community to replace the ones that leave. At the same time,it doesn't do a whole lot to GROW gaming. If they did,then more FLGS's would be popping up and expanding,and that's not the case?

The reason is,the FLGS model was never intended to be a buisness model for growth in the first place. Who came up with that buisness model? I'll tell you who. Some gamer thought that it would be an awesome idea to create a store where gamers could buy and hang out and play games. The gamers who run those stores are more than content to earn a living doing what they love,and what they love is gaming. Nobody opens a FLGS with the idea that it's going to turn into a franchise and they can retire as millionaires off of it.

The biggest failing of FLGS's to grow gaming is the fact that the buisness model effectively makes it a "hang-out" for a community of gamers. New customers are assimilated into that social network. Now,what happens if you take away all that playing space? The store ceases to become a hang-out and becomes less of a hub for it's community. Newbies who come in and buy stuff are then forced to create their own social network of gamers in order to play. They are infinately more likely to introduce the game to friends and relatives from outside the gaming community than they are if there's a ready-made social network in place. This introduces the game to more people. The more people you introduce the game to,the more people are going to pick it up,and the more new customers you have. I can speak from first hand experience on this. I got into M:tG like this. One day,one of the guys in high school walked in with some Magic cards that he picked up from the bookstore in the mall. We didn't have a FLGS in that area. So,in order to play this game that he thought looked pretty cool,he wound up roping about 6-8 of his friends into trying it,and we got hooked. The same thing happened years later with 40k. One of my friends wound up picking up the 3rd edition boxed set while looking for some D&D books at the FLGS,which was over a 2 hour drive away. He hooked 4-5 of us,and we started building armies by heading the FLGS on weekends to buy stuff,then playing at home. The same thing happened with paintball. One of my buddies thought it looked cool and bought a marker,but the nearest field was 3 hours away,so he roped 10 of us into buying equipment and playing in some woods behind his cousin's house.

If this is true,then GW is making a smart buisness decision to try and use new customers to grow new gaming circles instead of supporting existing ones. That's how you expand. Then,when they've grown those little social networks,it sends them to your FLGS to strengthen those social networks,except now it's doing it 4-5 people at a time instead of one at a time.

And for another,I realize that everybody would like to think that every 40k gamer at your FLGS is a paragon of virtue and a shining role-model for those new to the hobby,but get real. For every person like that I've played/met in a FLGS,there's 2 that were shining examples of everything that's WRONG with the hobby. I don't know how many pickup games I've played with "veteran" 40k players that don't know even basic rules,like what "Instant Death" means. I've played people that don't even OWN their own Codex,and have to grab a copy off the shelf of the store when they've got a rules question. I've had a guy drop 2 empty bases and a Sailor Moon statuette as a unit of Eldar War Walkers. I've played a guy that already had terrain pre-setup,claimed the side that all the terrain on it as "his,"and copped a 'tude when I asked him to roll-off for table edge. I've played at least two pick up games where I've almost had my opponent tabled,and he pulls a,"Oh...look at the time. I've to go. I guess we'll just call this a draw." I've met/played a ton of great people at FLGS's,too,but does anybody really expect GW to stake their financial future on who's in the store at any given time?

Whatever1 wrote:I've met/played a ton of great people at FLGS's,too,but does anybody really expect GW to stake their financial future on who's in the store at any given time?

But isn't that your customer base? Part of the challenge/goal should be to have a product range that continually "encourages" these core players to want to spend money/invest on a continual basis.

Without a doubt, their is a need to grow and expand the customer base - one of the best way to increase sales is to increase your market potential. We'll have to see how effective this tactic turns out to be. For penetration into the large chains (Target, etc.) I'd think a range of products designed to introduce people to the hobby would be ideal - say WFB/40K Basic. If they were well designed, they could then "funnel" back to the core products. Actually, for a while, wasn't that happening with the LotR stuff? Without the statistics and detailed market reviews, it's pretty hard to make any conclusions other than "educated" guesses.

Another point, IMHO your comment re varying "quality" of FLGS would be equally applicable to the chain stores...

While I can't say I agree with the tactic (assuming GW is actually moving in this direction), who knows.

AJC

GW is in the business of making toy soldiers and occasionally rules to go with them, they are not in the business of running retail/gaming stores necessarily. They went into the market of running stores to attempt to grow the hobby, but it hasn't turned out to be the most lucrative adventure, therefore they are growing and changing to meet the needs of the world as it is, with the internet and such the need for a brick and mortar FLGS is less then it was in the nineties when they opened all of those hobby centers to begin with.

I agree completely with Whatever1. FLGS are often club hangouts and if you're not friends with the "locals" it generally feels awkward to hang there. The FLGS that's litterally three blocks from my house is my least favorite store within three hours, so I go there if I need to buy some paint or glue, but they're more of a D&D crowd and sadly I gave up the good old D&D 15 years ago so I never feel totally confortable hanging out there especially since I want to talk about 40k with others that know what I am talking about.

I would rather drive 30-40 minutes to a store that is more 40k focused and has a nicer group of guys that hang there when I have the free time, otherwise I play with my two friends over at there place were we can smoke and have a couple beers while we play.

Gamer dorks aren't the most socially skilled people and normally not the men(overwhelmingly men anyways) a parent wants their teen/pre-teen kid being around on a weekly basis, so GW sells the goods out of a tiny inexpensive storefront and the kids need to go find a basement to play in like many of us did while growing up.

If memory serves me correct, this was the original line they boasted when they first started opening the HC's to appease the concerns of the FLGS. That they were there to draw in the new meat at the HC's, then pawn them off to the FLGS to expand thier armies and have a place to play.

Of course, that lasted until 2002 when the 'firebomb the independants' attitude kicked in, internet sales in the US were 'curtailed' and there was a HC in every Mills mall across the US, and then the Regions kicked in with over-zealous Metro Managers. Trade Sales just plainly started screwing over the independants on orders with 'minimums' and 'package deals', and GW Retail itself was fixated (as a business should be) on target numbers. It was a dark few years (in some corners of the US) for them.

So it did not surprise me with all the points that the OP has stated, its a modified version of the original plan. It's even written down in the Red Book by the Kirbster himself. They strayed for about 7 years, but are now getting back on track.

As a side note on the internet sales, in early 2001 I became Manager of a FLGS in Houston; the clientele were constantly asking for discounts on large purchases, of course which, we couldn't do. Then they'd just spout off saying "We'll just go in and do a large order with The Warstore then." So when my rep would call, of course we'd bemoan the fact that we were losing sales (and thus not ordering more product from them) because we could not compete with the online pricing and deep discounts. I'm sure they heard that across the country and you see what has resulted. Good for the FLGS's but sucked for the consumers in the US.

If they kicked out the massive group of people that come down on 40k night, They'd have a riot on their hands.

I think this might be referring to small outlit stores, and order booths.

If they banned "hobists" they'd be cutting 98% of their advertising. It's not just the demmo games that draw peoople in, it's the people playing with non black reach armies.

If they plan to add in "shop-and-go" shops in less populated areas, I can see that being a good idea.

AJCarrington wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:I've met/played a ton of great people at FLGS's,too,but does anybody really expect GW to stake their financial future on who's in the store at any given time?

But isn't that your customer base? Part of the challenge/goal should be to have a product range that continually "encourages" these core players to want to spend money/invest on a continual basis.

Without a doubt, their is a need to grow and expand the customer base - one of the best way to increase sales is to increase your market potential. We'll have to see how effective this tactic turns out to be. For penetration into the large chains (Target, etc.) I'd think a range of products designed to introduce people to the hobby would be ideal - say WFB/40K Basic. If they were well designed, they could then "funnel" back to the core products. Actually, for a while, wasn't that happening with the LotR stuff? Without the statistics and detailed market reviews, it's pretty hard to make any conclusions other than "educated" guesses.

Another point, IMHO your comment re varying "quality" of FLGS would be equally applicable to the chain stores...

While I can't say I agree with the tactic (assuming GW is actually moving in this direction), who knows.

AJC

It's GW's buisness model. They're not discouraging people from spending money on GW stuff. What they're saying is that they want their GW stores to concentrate on new gamers and growing their games,and effectively saying that they want local independant retailors to cater to established GW gamers who want the more traditional FLGS environment. While it is possible that they will lose a few gamers here and there by doing this,there's the old saying about omelettes and breaking eggs. However,by and large,the people they chase out of their stores are just going to go buy their products someplace else. If I've learned anything from reading these forums,it's that the people that complain the loudest about any move GW makes are the first to drop the,"I spend $X on GW every year,"line. We can complain about GW's buisness practices,but when it all boils down to it,they produce fun games and (mostly) cool mini's,and that's what keeps us.

I don't ever see places like Target becoming full line GW dealers. However,I remember back when I was a kid,stores like K-Mart literally had an entire aisle for plastic model kits and modeling supplies. They would probably limit their product lines for stores like that to introductory/bulk items. They'd probably stock the introductory game(Black Reach),Codex's/Army Books,Battle Forces/Battalions,glue,hobby knives,paint sets,spray primer,and their hobby starter set. I could see them doing dummied down models for "big box" retailors,similar to the Black Reach models,though. I don't see them ever stocking individual boxes,blisters,or paints.

I'm throwing the BS flag on this "Rumor", and on top of that, I say, other then moving out of the malls, we really have nothing here but the same old same old "Redshirt mafia" wishful thinking. And coming from some uber pogue"in the know" manager?

Never mind that this guy seems to have been the only one to have heard this, but the source is confirmed here to be a D-bag.

Ask yourself the easy question.

"What does GW need to do to make money in todays economy?"

Simple. They make money by dropping costs. Either by production costs, or by marketing costs.

I have a small GW Mall shop with 6 guys that work there, then 4 of them would be better in either, another smaller shop, or hitting the unemployment line. If the hours aren't justifying the costs, then I find a place with cheaper rent, and keep the store open LONGER.

There arn't even enough tables in mall stores to even do a decent demo game. Why would I want to pay extra to keep putting money in the malls pocket?

The play area doesn't even matter. If I have the shop in a high traffic area, more people come in then if I just had it in a high end mall with half of that number for a shorter number of hours. It's even better if I put it in a place with room for two or three more tables, PLUS room for longer hours. ( Which I might add were alluded to by the company that they were already looking into.)

As to these last couple of posts? Grognard hit the question on the head. I'll go one step further.

The "Original plan" as spouted off by the D bag manager is incorrect, and was retold or understood incorrectly. AND... we're all going at the incorrect information with "facts" that were given... incorrectly.

If I heard the information from four or five people, I'd say, sure. maybe.

One manager, who another poster here has confirmed to be a tool? No. The story sounds like BS to me.

I guess the idea is that they have multiple small single sales person stores with display boards for intro games in popular areas and then have the sales people direct them, as the next step, to the larger battle bunkers or to local clubs.

I have nothing concrete and this is only a guess but there something in the GW investor relations half year review about the single sales person stores being a good model and something they are moving forward with. Also I've heard chatter online about GW trying to introduce the club culture from the UK into other areas such as the US. I guess in the UK they have a more Club focused gamer community where-as in the US its more of a store focused gamer community.

It could be the different cultures however but I think GW initially tried to make the US culture of store focused community work and it ended up not being profitable for them and it also resulted in killing a lot of FLGS that could have done a lot of the work for them. The main problem is big stores require a lot of rent especially in popular areas but if they can put small stores in a popular areas for a lot less rent to get those new people and then try and get people to establish clubs in FLGS, Battle bunkers or community driven ones that rent a hall a couple of times a month, the gamers/hobbiests win and so does GW.

I find reading the threads always amusing because of the passionate back and forth but I think a lot of the arguements are missing the point. GW is a UK based company trying to make a UK business model work across the world. They are going to screw it up (and they have before. I reckon their first attempt to make it in the U.S. failed because I reckon they got U.S. based consultants to try and tell them how to do well in the U.S. and it sounds like they got led astray. Killing competition and trying dominate the market space doesn't work for Wargaming), the important thing is they keep trying a lot of different ways to try and make it work. Dont discount these ideas until you see them in practice.

Grot 6 wrote:"What does GW need to do to make money in todays economy?"

Simple. They make money by dropping costs. Either by production costs, or by marketing costs.

Agree with you post, but thought I'd add something re this item. Best way to make money is increase the sales (somewhat obvious, I know). If the sole focus is on reducing cost, they will have very specific limits as to how far this can take them. In an ideal world, their plan will allow them to increase gross volume of sales while maintaining the same fixed costs. Next couple of months should shed some light as to what/how effective these plans are and will be.

AJC

Whatever1 wrote:And for another,I realize that everybody would like to think that every 40k gamer at your FLGS is a paragon of virtue and a shining role-model for those new to the hobby,but get real. For every person like that I've played/met in a FLGS,there's 2 that were shining examples of everything that's WRONG with the hobby. I don't know how many pickup games I've played with "veteran" 40k players that don't know even basic rules,like what "Instant Death" means. I've played people that don't even OWN their own Codex,and have to grab a copy off the shelf of the store when they've got a rules question. I've had a guy drop 2 empty bases and a Sailor Moon statuette as a unit of Eldar War Walkers. I've played a guy that already had terrain pre-setup,claimed the side that all the terrain on it as "his,"and copped a 'tude when I asked him to roll-off for table edge. I've played at least two pick up games where I've almost had my opponent tabled,and he pulls a,"Oh...look at the time. I've to go. I guess we'll just call this a draw." I've met/played a ton of great people at FLGS's,too,but does anybody really expect GW to stake their financial future on who's in the store at any given time?

I lol'd. So I can't use my GI Joes as titans anymore?

But really I agree with this point. Why just the other day we found out one of the so-called veterans in our group was incredibly wrong about many rules (he is a huge rule lawyer so... idk) and have thus stopped listening to him (he is also kind of a D-bag).

sworth9411 wrote:So Before this turns into a flame thread, I would love to keep an open mind and discussion about this possible new plan, I know for a 20

I for one never was a basement / home hobbyist and have always played strictly at stores, I also spend absurd amounts of money at GW (according to my taxes almost $4000 in 2009), I am quite upset that it could be harder to play at the stores.

I think this is an interesting point you have. You are not a basement/home hobbyist so this rumor im assuming will impact you a lot more. I for one have never painted at a store and always just paint with a few friends. We normally play games at someones house but recently since we have gone to college and gotten apartments we don't have space for our tables and often go to a game store (not a GW) to play our games.

What I am curious about is that you are not a basement/home painter or player. Do you think more people play at stores than they do homes? Do you think people paint more at stores than they do at home? I think this would be an interesting poll. Because if the majority of people played/painted at home, maybe GW is just following the tread of what people are already doing.