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The new business model suggested is a fact, whilst I can offer no proof via the interweb other than stating 'this is what I know' I'm sure it ties in with what others have gleaned from their sources.

The overall aim of the new move is to reduce the staffing levels of stores, this is the bottom line. Salary = Dead Money to most shareholders unless that salary is seen as a direct function of 'making money'. Shareholders, Boards of Directors and Proprietors HATE labour costs they are simply a required 'evil'.

The other important swing factor is the Interweb. The GW online site will take more than all of the stores combined this year and forever more. If GW could switch to a 'net only' operation they would do so at the drop of a hat. I cannot express just how important GW considers online sales compared with those of the high street stores. Of course, because of the niche status of the hobby they have to maintain a street presence and ensure that there brand is still being seen and talked about, especially in schools.

If 10 year olds had debit cards the number of GW stores would drop so fast you would miss it if you blinked.

Take note of the rabid zeal with which GW scours Ebay for images, even their own 'Independant Stockists' cannot use their pics or text. IR's are there purely for dessemination of the brand and what it contains but GW want you to come to their own site. The only way to enourage this (in the UK at least) is to deprive them of visuals. 'AHA!' you say, then why do they allow IR's to even exist? Simple, they need the IR to cater for the 18+ brigade. These guys rarely buy from stores anyway, they 'might' buy from an IR that is capable of holding gaming functions but overall they are no threat and help to keep the adults in the loop. What they cannot do is tell these guys NOT to sell on Ebay, can't do, against the law.

GW knows that the majority of PARENTS (people with cards) will want to buy from an official site, one with nice pics and art. Little Johny couldn't give a rats ass for the 10-15% if Dads pulling out the card and so overall, GW win.

In short, it's KID POWER that drives the GW model. No criticism here, it's solid business sense but sadly once you hit the age of consent their magic stops working, they know it and you are now redundant to them.

My 2 cents.

Good. I like my FLGS better anyway (note the 'F' in FLGS; though I have heard that the 'F' in Games Workshop stands for friendly as well). This may be a little inflammatory, but it is worth saying. I am not calling out anyone in this forum specifically. But these are things we need to take into account. We should look at the direction of our hobby. It is starting to hit mainstream acceptance. In order for it to achieve that, changes need to be made. Believe it or not, these are the right changes. Perhaps, gaming stores should charge dues, so that they can justify the backroom shop space used to play, as well. New customers are what keep the hobby going. And there are a few reasons for this.


1. Regulars tend to leach. They tend to feel a certain level of entitlement because they have been visiting the same store every saturday for 10 years. That's 520 Saturdays; how many times do you think they made a $100 purchase every Saturday?

2. Beardy's scare kids and parents. Let's face it, how many parents really wants there kid to delve into a hobby which takes inspiration from occult sources; terms like demon, summoning, Old Ones, Elder Gods, heresy, sacrifice, dark gods, God Emperor of Mankind do't generally sit well with conservative families. Now throw in the fact that there are a couple bearded 30 something's in the store, who have changed their wardrobe in 20 years, haven't showered for a day or three and scream stranger danger. Hell, I have been playing for 20 years and I wouldn't let my own kids into some of these places.

3. New customers have to spend significant amounts of money to get into the hobby. They often have parents who are upper middle class and out of touch with their children. If they find out that this is an interest of their teenager and they approve, they will likely see it as constructive and creative; it also means the kid may not be doing drugs (in their head at least). All of these mean they will try to foster the hobby, which translates to spend their money on it. Which is good for GW. In order to get me to make a purchase, GW has to create something new and fresh every single time. At this point in the hobby, I have bought and built nearly every kit that I am interested in building. I do not have to make new purchases to play, unless GW rewrites my dex and then, usually all I have to do is a few conversions (I still have Marines from RT that I sometimes field, because I can). Wow, I just spent $20 on a book. New customers will buy an Army like Tau or Dark Eldar because they look cool and because they can use them as a way to identify their individuality(noone ever uses these armies, they look so cool, I can make these work). Then after a few months they find out the army sucks and have there butt kicked in way too mnay games, they start a Marine Army. New customers that come to find a place to fit in, buy Marines (cause everyone else has them). After a few months of successful playing, they become curious and start a new army.

4. New customers keep the game fresh.
a.) They give the seasoned players someone to mentor
b.) They give the beardy's someone to feel superior to
c.) See item 3
d.) They bring new ideas

5. Regulars tend to try to help out new players
a.) They show the new guys where to go to get things cheaper
b.) They discourage purchases of certain items, how many times have you heard
"Dude that unit is not competitive, don't waste your money." and
"Don't buy that box of [Guard Heavy Weapons/Crisis Suit], just for the [Autocannons/Fusion Blasters] to convert your [Lootas/Warboss], I have a few extras right here"

6. Regulars can be rude and chase away new customers, as well.

-No more hobbyist gaming in the store (other than national events etc.)
--Good, I like my living room better and the FLGS sells more than GW products.

-No pick me up games in the store (I.E. Meetups are allowed but Frown upon)
--See above

-No more hobbying in the store
--Why would I? I can call a few buds over, sit around the table, paint, sculpt green stuff, drink a few beers and oh yeah, no entry level people breaking my gak and no beardy's telling me I am not optimizing my force for tourny

-Staff should focus more on brand new clients only
--They need help and will spend more money, which keep GW afloat

-Hobbiyist dont spend money, New clients spend the most amount of money on the hobby so lets focus on new clients
--We do, but we don't give it all do GW

I personally have never set foot in a GW store this is due to one) them not being in Minnesota and two) being less then an hour from 2 FLGS. The only GW store I want to go to is the Battle Bunker near Chicago.

As far as the new plan goes I am seeing one major flaw in it and that is:

Say you get new people in with an army but what is there too keep them in? Say there is a new play gets a good army, but where does he/she play and with whom do they play, how do they get help if they need it?

I got started late in life and had a former GW store manger to help me along, but with out that help I would have sold what I had on Ebay some time ago. With his help I have leaned so much and have gotten so much new stuff (mind you he did also teach me a few things that have saved me money and helped me out with bitz like no tomorrow but still he kept me in the hobby).

What should be done (first said by jw7007) is them keeping the tables and work stations but charging for them this price for this many pts have a cap on the amount of pts that could be played on one table and if you go bigger you need to get another table and charge for the work stations by the hour. The make money and keep the community alive and close where they can spend there money AT GW and NOT AT a FLGS which is more profit for them.

@ Kervin: All very good and respectable points. They are going to lose certain players, if that happens. However, most of the stores I have seen are IR/FLGS not corporate GW stores.

When I got into 40k I was a kid around the age of 13. I had a very friendly manager at the FLGS provide me with a lot of advice. Which meant I bought a lot of product. The regulars at that time, weren't much use to me in all honesty. The store was a minimum 45 minute drive, so it wasn't really feasible to drive to the store for games. We did have an LGS but they didn't carry much GW, they did have tablespace in the back, but 'noobs' weren't invited. So, we had a group of about ten guys that played regularly close by. We had a rotation of moving the games from house to house so we didn't wear out our welcome, although we usually ended up using mine as I had tablespace and openminded parents who didn't mind the crowd. I stayed in the Hobby until I moved away from home and joined the military. After two years though, I had found a group of like minded people and got back into the hobby again. Ofcourse, I missed the last few years of 2nd edition and when I started again 3rd was in full swing. But, I really liked how 3rd played.

So, without a readily available local store, I was still able to get into the hobby and stick with it. I mostly taught myself to paint, I am not the best out there, but I am certainly not the worst. I know a lot of people who have done the same.

I am fortunate that now we have 3-4 FLGS (okay, 2 FLGS and 2 LGS) within ten minutes, but most of the time we get together and set up a table in the living room, garage, basement, etc. The wives/SO/GF's, talk and do their thing and the boyz have their time. It's nice and a lot more relaxing then the FLGS most of the time.

I guess it's all a matter of what the norm was when you started. If you had a store to play at, you played at the store and that was normal. If you didn't, you played at your house and that was normal too. Not being able to play in an FLGS may seem strange, but look at the CCG and RPG market. Most of the games that take place do not happen in store and those industries have done reasonably well, even with their low points.

Not a bad idea charging for playspace or even having marked times/days for open play. I wouldn't have a problem paying to reserve tablespace. It would get rid of some of the leaches and those that just 'hang around.'

@jw7007 - One thing that I haven't seen addressed in your argument is that without a general meeting place to play - such as a games workshop - players do not get an opportunity to play against a variety of opponents. True, I have a few buds who play, but if I couldn't head down to the local GW to play from time to time, I would quickly lose interest and stop playing altogether.

Now - this might not seem like a big deal - after all, I represent only one customer - but if the same behaviour occurs then they WILL lose a lot of business. Now - you may ask "well, how much do you spend on armies anyways?" I'm solidly in the middle class where I live, and I spend a fair bit at GW - in the last year and a half, I have bought and built: Dark Elves, High Elves, Skaven, Warriors of Chaos, Tyranids, Tau. I have purchased 2k points for each of these armies (well, except for Tau). If I have to go to my FLGS rather than GW for my gaming, I will likely depart from the GW product line (they play a lot of warmachine/hordes there).

@niceas: Very true. A store does help you to play against a variety of opponents and learn to deal witht their quirks and different strategies. Which, in turn makes you a better player. A store to play facilitates this greatly. Otherwise you have to have a group that is always bringing in new people, which is honestly kind of a pain. So, yes store play/hobby is beneficial, I will not deny that.

Keep in mind though that this has only been rumoured at GW stores. The IR/LGS will likely not follow that model as keeping players in their stores is their bread and butter. What may work for the IR may not work for the Corporate GW Store. I look at it like this, you can go to Wal-Mart and be assured that you can find the product you need and get out quickly. Or you can go to you local family run business and may not get the product you were looking but chances are you will be greeted as a friend/patron and have some good conversation. When I go to GW, I have one thing in mind, get what I came for and get out. When I go to my FLGS, I am looking for something completely different. The FLGS know this and will continue to do that. IIRC most towns in the states do not have a GW store, their are a lot of players who depend on support from the IR/FLGS.

As long as this is only GW, it probably won't have too much of an impact. GW did not start this model. Most IR/FLGS who pre-date GW have done this for years. So, just because GW stops, it doesn't mean that the other places will.

I do feel you pain though. Even though your FLGS may play a lot of warmachine/hordes (not bad games), your 40k pals will have to go somewhere, which will likely be the FLGS. Seeing that many people playing 40k in store will be too much for most owners/managers to pass and will likely increase their GW support. Which will in turn producemore 40k players. I have noticed that when GW sets up a store in an area, they become the only place to play 40k. However, when there is no GW store nearby, most FLGS are pretty heavy into 40k. It all moves in waves. If the model doesn't work for GW, they won't use it. Just like in 40k, these things happen and it's up to us on how we solve them. Due to the nature of my work, I have had to put my hobby on hold because of lack of players in the area I was at many times. I see players come and go. You will find a way to keep your hobby. You don't just quit 40k

^ and sometimes you think about quitting when you walk into a GW store and it looks like kindergarten...

I have a relative that is a Manager at a Houston games-workshop, and he learned earlier this week about new changes to the US stores.

changes:
- All stores will be run by one employee that is paid hourly. (no manager salaries and major layoffs)
- If a "store operator" is sick, then the store will not open for that day, also store closes for lunch/dinner/ bathroom breaks everyday
- Restrictions on free gaming
- No area manager
-all focus based on new players.
- No store ran events because of only one employee

So, this looks bad for my relative because of the paycut =/.

-ice

So how is one employee meant to do introductory games, push products, AND man a till at the same time? Are they employing squid now?

Ketara wrote:So how is one employee meant to do introductory games, push products, AND man a till at the same time? Are they employing squid now?

They aren't... This is presumably in acceptance of the idea that the stores using this format rarely have multiple customers in them at the same time.

My former FLGS sued to run during the week with one person on, maybe a 2nd on weekends. They didn't do much int he way of demos, and could usually deal with a half dozen customers in the store, especially if they were the trusted regulars. Another LGS sued to usually have 2 in anytime it was busy, but they had a much larger gaming area.

Ugh, if I ever start a nerd company I'm never going to go public. That's the only reason they're slaves to shareholders.

Ostrakon wrote:Ugh, if I ever start a nerd company I'm never going to go public. That's the only reason they're slaves to shareholders.

This, I've watched too many superhero movies to ever take a company public, lol.

So basically GW is just wanting new people to get the quick bang for the buck, and then not support those people once most of the money is spent?

So what is the % of new you kids who get into the hobby stay in the hobby then? Is it like 50% leave or 75% leave? Anyone have these stats? I just can't see this new way of thinking.

People who work in the stores don't make that much money as it is, so for GW to be saving more money by removing these few workers to save a bit of money while giving no support to people who buy the product just dosn't make any sense to me.

Maybe GW dosn't want to the buisness model to works so they can go bankrupt now. I duno nothing ever makes sense what GW does.

Davor wrote:So basically GW is just wanting new people to get the quick bang for the buck, and then not support those people once most of the money is spent?

So what is the % of new you kids who get into the hobby stay in the hobby then? Is it like 50% leave or 75% leave? Anyone have these stats? I just can't see this new way of thinking.

People who work in the stores don't make that much money as it is, so for GW to be saving more money by removing these few workers to save a bit of money while giving no support to people who buy the product just dosn't make any sense to me.

Maybe GW dosn't want to the buisness model to works so they can go bankrupt now. I duno nothing ever makes sense what GW does.

...

Did you even read the actual explanations from people like Mikhaila?

They're(if this rumor is even to be believed, which is doubtful) moving towards getting rid of the 'veterans' who just hog the free gaming space that the cramped and small 'official' GW stores to encourage more introductory playspace, hobby stations, etc. When the new players move to being beyond the level of a 'newbie', they get directed towards a FLGS that stocks GW product nearby or alternatively an official GW Battle Bunker(both of which tend to be a bit bigger than the holes in the walls that GW stores are, and tend towards having 'organized' playdates with you having to reserve or ask ahead when arranging games).

I find it a bit funny since I never seen GW direct me to a FLGS at all. They always want me to come into thier stores and buy only from them and want me to bring my minis to them all the time to play games.

That is why I find it so confusing what people say here. I was at GW just a few days ago and they keep telling me to bring my army in to play some games and I alway decline since I don't have the luxury to do it.

Then that should tell you that this rumor is a load of bunk, shouldn't it?

People take these rumors far, far too seriously sometimes and proclaim the sky is falling based on what some ill-informed redshirt said.

DEATH TO THE RED SHIRT!!

Sorry, I was having a Star Trek flashback.

Kanluwen wrote:Then that should tell you that this rumor is a load of bunk, shouldn't it?

People take these rumors far, far too seriously sometimes and proclaim the sky is falling based on what some ill-informed redshirt said.

They ran the two local stores in MI like the above poster said about texas..


There was only 1 employee.

He shut the store down for his lunch break.

He was absolutely miserable all the time because he ran the whole store himself.

R3con wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Then that should tell you that this rumor is a load of bunk, shouldn't it?

People take these rumors far, far too seriously sometimes and proclaim the sky is falling based on what some ill-informed redshirt said.

They ran the two local stores in MI like the above poster said about texas..


There was only 1 employee.

He shut the store down for his lunch break.

He was absolutely miserable all the time because he ran the whole store himself.

That's a different story than saying that is EXACTLY how every store will be run, now isn't it?

All you've done is provide examples of it being done that way, not that they fired a full staff complement from the stores as part of some company policy to run it as a one man shop.

And are these FLGSes you're referring to, or actual GW stores? Because if they're FLGSes then they're just poorly thought-out, not part of y'know...
Games Workshop's official New Business Model.