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RobPro wrote:You may always claim a 5+ cover save by insisting your models are in cover to your opponent and having him/her disagree.

That only works if your opponent isn't willing to stop and verify each and every model in the firing unit's line of sight to each and every model's line of sight to each and every model in the target unit. So, no, this doesn't count as a valid example of silly RAW.

--Silly RaW Police

Warptime does NOT require this. Read the definition of a reroll, and realise that it is giving you permission to rerol any of the dice you want.

"You may take all of the apples" does not require you to take all or none, but any number of apples up to the limit prescribed.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Warptime does NOT require this. Read the definition of a reroll, and realise that it is giving you permission to rerol any of the dice you want.

"You may take all of the apples" does not require you to take all or none, but any number of apples up to the limit prescribed.

It does not say you may re-roll some of the dice, it says you may re-roll all of the dice.

"You may take all of the Apples" does mean you take all or none. "You may take as many apples as you wish" allows you to take none, some or all. It's the same as Twin Linked Template weapons, you roll all or none.

Except the rules for rerolls states you may always reroll what you want to reroll within that set - each event may be rerolled. Blast markers (not templates ) "event" is 2D6+scatter, therefore your reroll applies to all 3 dice and all 3 must be rerolled.

FOr to hit / to wound each dice is its' own event, and each one may be rerolled up to tthe limit.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Except the rules for rerolls states you may always reroll what you want to reroll within that set - each event may be rerolled. Blast markers (not templates ) "event" is 2D6+scatter, therefore your reroll applies to all 3 dice and all 3 must be rerolled.

FOr to hit / to wound each dice is its' own event, and each one may be rerolled up to tthe limit.

Just because the rule says "Pick up the dice you wish to re-roll" does not override the specifics of a rule. If a rules wording indicates you can re-roll all or none (as Warptime does), then you re-roll all or none.

As for my Template remark, I was actually taking about Template weapons aka Flamers and what not, which, in the Twin Linked rules state "Twin-linked template weapons are fired just like a single weapon, but they can re-roll the dice to wound." Not "they can re-roll some of the dice" or "they can re-roll any of the dice" or even "they can re-roll failed rolls to wound" but "they can re-roll the dice to wound." They roll all or nothing.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Except the rules for rerolls states you may always reroll what you want to reroll within that set -

No they don't. They simply state that you pick up the dice that you wish to re-roll. If a rule is allowing you a re-roll but specifying that you re-roll all of the dice, then your choice is to re-roll all of them or none of them. If you choose all of them, then the dice you are choosing to re-roll are all of the dice.

Nothing in the re-roll rules specifically over-rides any other rules that may apply.

And to think it was only six or seven months since the "All vs. Any" threads...

How about this one the Ork FAQ about the Deff Rolla is Irrelevant because there is no Deffrolla or death rolla in the Ork codex.

Hah nice one The first Deff Rolla question is still valid thou that one has the correct spelling.

ChrisCP wrote:Hah nice one The first Deff Rolla question is still valid thou that one has the correct spelling.

But the answer doesn't. So it's addressing a different type of upgrade that is not in the Ork codex.

Referring to this bit sorry for the poor phrasing.

Q. Does a unit that successfully stops a Deff
Rolla-equipped Battlewagon’s Tank Shock suffer
any hits?
A. Yes, it does. In fact, it suffers 2D6 S10 hits!

Q. Can a Deff Rolla affect more than one enemy
unit with a single Tank Shock move?
A. Yes, all of the units Tank Shocked are affected
by the Deff Rolla (roll separately for each unit).

How about this one the Ork FAQ about the Deff Rolla is Irrelevant because there is no Deffrolla or death rolla in the Ork codex.

Or that it is irrelevant because Ramming is impossible anyway? Tank Shocking requires you to stop at least 1" away from any vehicle and nothing in the ramming rules overrides this. They just tell you what happens if you make contact with an enemy vehicle which of course would never happen due to the tank shocking rules...

40kenthusiast wrote:The monolith takes hits at the base strength of the unit attacking (so, 4 for a Devastator with a lascannon)

Where are you getting this one from? I don't see any part about using the base strength of the unit, but rather the unaugmented strength of the weapon, which is of course how it's played normally...

FlingitNow wrote:

How about this one the Ork FAQ about the Deff Rolla is Irrelevant because there is no Deffrolla or death rolla in the Ork codex.

Or that it is irrelevant because Ramming is impossible anyway? Tank Shocking requires you to stop at least 1" away from any vehicle and nothing in the ramming rules overrides this. They just tell you what happens if you make contact with an enemy vehicle which of course would never happen due to the tank shocking rules...

Unless you happen to have a 1"+ deffrolla, in which case it's perfectly possible to contact a vehicle as the 1" restriction is measured to the hull.

Unless you happen to have a 1"+ deffrolla, in which case it's perfectly possible to contact a vehicle as the 1" restriction is measured to the hull.

Is the 1" restriction applicable to only the Hull? Because if so I assume it is because all distances are measured from eth Hull in which case the same would apply for the Tank shocking and therefore you still wouldn't be considered in contact? Otherwise the Deffrolla is the ONLY way to RAM?

FlingitNow wrote:

Unless you happen to have a 1"+ deffrolla, in which case it's perfectly possible to contact a vehicle as the 1" restriction is measured to the hull.

Is the 1" restriction applicable to only the Hull? Because if so I assume it is because all distances are measured from eth Hull in which case the same would apply for the Tank shocking and therefore you still wouldn't be considered in contact? Otherwise the Deffrolla is the ONLY way to RAM?

Any measurements to a vehicle other than shooting are to the hull, there's something to that effect in the vehicle rules IIRC.

Any vehicle would be entitled to model on a 1.00001" pole sticking out the front of their vehicle which is purely decorative and would allow them to ram legally

Any measurements to a vehicle other than shooting are to the hull, there's something to that effect in the vehicle rules IIRC.

In that case then this applies to ramming also unless there is a rule overriding it? In which case even the decorative pole would have no effect.

FlingitNow wrote:I assume it is because all distances are measured from eth Hull in which case the same would apply for the Tank shocking and therefore you still wouldn't be considered in contact?

Any measurements to a vehicle other than shooting are to the hull, there's something to that effect in the vehicle rules IIRC.

In that case then this applies to ramming also unless there is a rule overriding it? In which case even the decorative pole would have no effect.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

A 1.1" decorative pole is not part of the hull. A 1.1" decorative pole could make contact with another vehicle, and thus be a legal ram, while the vehicle's hull remained at 1" measurement distance.

FlingitNow wrote:

Any measurements to a vehicle other than shooting are to the hull, there's something to that effect in the vehicle rules IIRC.

In that case then this applies to ramming also unless there is a rule overriding it? In which case even the decorative pole would have no effect.

Much like base to base contact is not a 0" measurement (so you can't assault a unit embarked on a transport) neither is coming "into contact with an enemy vehicle" the same as a 0" measurement.

so while the pole would not be hull (and thus be allowed to enter the 1" radius presumably) it would be able to come into contact with a vehicle and trigger a ram.

Firewarriors, Pathfinders, and Broadsides may not use multi-trackers. Multi-trackers allow a unit to use two battlesuit weapons in the same shooting phase. Broadsides can only ever have 1 battlesuit weapon (plasma rifle), and the rest cannot use battlesuit weapons in any way shape or form. (Railguns are not found in the battlesuit Armoury.)

That is not "RAW stupidity".
That is just "plain stupidity".

Firewarriors and Pathfinders are not automatically given Multi-trackers. If you feel like wasting 5 point on a Hardwired Multi-tracker on a Shas'ui, then by all means do so.
That is not a fault in the rules. It is a fault in the player.

Thinking of the TL Railgun mounted on a Broadside as NOT being a battle suit weapon is odd to say the least.
In the Broadside entry there is no discernible difference between the Railgun and the SMS when it comes to determining whether the Railgun is a battlesuit weapon or not.
They are simply mentioned as the two weapons the suit is equipped with.
The Armoury entry in the Wargear section is not an exhaustive list of the battlesuit weapons in existence. It is a list of the battlesuit weapons available to buy outside of your unit entry.

Steelmage99 wrote:That is not "RAW stupidity".
That is just "plain stupidity".

Firewarriors and Pathfinders are not automatically given Multi-trackers. If you feel like wasting 5 point on a Hardwired Multi-tracker on a Shas'ui, then by all means do so.
That is not a fault in the rules. It is a fault in the player.

Thinking of the TL Railgun mounted on a Broadside as NOT being a battle suit weapon is odd to say the least.
In the Broadside entry there is no discernible difference between the Railgun and the SMS when it comes to determining whether the Railgun is a battlesuit weapon or not.
They are simply mentioned as the two weapons the suit is equipped with.
The Armoury entry in the Wargear section is not an exhaustive list of the battlesuit weapons in existence. It is a list of the battlesuit weapons available to buy outside of your unit entry.

First of all, calm down. I'm not in the mood for a heated argument that will get physical and end in a gladiator style fight to the death.

Second, just like the argument "Doom of Malan'tai is not a Zoanthrope", Broadsides battlesuits are not Crisis battlesuits.

Finally, lots of people use multi-trackers on Firewarriors. Shas'ui with Markerlight and multi-tracker to shoot both the markerlight and pulse weapon. It's humorous RAW because it's in the infantry war-gear list that Firewarriors and Pathfinders can get Hard-wired multi-trackers and (I do not recall the quote at the moment) may use the systems as battlesuits would.

On several Tau forums this has been brought up, so please sir, calm down :/

!$# wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:That is not "RAW stupidity".
That is just "plain stupidity".

Firewarriors and Pathfinders are not automatically given Multi-trackers. If you feel like wasting 5 point on a Hardwired Multi-tracker on a Shas'ui, then by all means do so.
That is not a fault in the rules. It is a fault in the player.

Thinking of the TL Railgun mounted on a Broadside as NOT being a battle suit weapon is odd to say the least.
In the Broadside entry there is no discernible difference between the Railgun and the SMS when it comes to determining whether the Railgun is a battlesuit weapon or not.
They are simply mentioned as the two weapons the suit is equipped with.
The Armoury entry in the Wargear section is not an exhaustive list of the battlesuit weapons in existence. It is a list of the battlesuit weapons available to buy outside of your unit entry.

First of all, calm down. I'm not in the mood for a heated argument that will get physical and end in a gladiator style fight to the death.

No worries. I am very calm.

Second, just like the argument "Doom of Malan'tai is not a Zoanthrope", Broadsides battlesuits are not Crisis battlesuits.

Nobody is saying that. The Multi-tracker doesn't refer to Crisis suits. It refers to "battlesuit weapon systems". The Broadside is a battlesuit. its weapons are battlesuit weapon systems. Hence the Broadside part of the RAW-fun isn't really relevant.

Finally, lots of people use multi-trackers on Firewarriors. Shas'ui with Markerlight and multi-tracker to shoot both the markerlight and pulse weapon. It's humorous RAW because it's in the infantry war-gear list that Firewarriors and Pathfinders can get Hard-wired multi-trackers and (I do not recall the quote at the moment) may use the systems as battlesuits would.

This is indeed like the "Doom of Malan'tai, 3++ or not-situation". Just like with the DOM one can ask; "Why give a non-battlesuit the option to buy an upgrade that only (by RAW) helps battlesuits?"
In my mind it doesn't quite "qualify" as a real RAW-fun moment as it only appears the second a player decides to buy an upgrade with a questionable effect. Unlike the DOM, where there is no option presented.

On several Tau forums this has been brought up, so please sir, calm down :/

OK. I fail to see the relevance, but OK.
I am sure this has/is an issue, but I do not find it a RAW-fun moment along the lines of DOMs 3++ and Blood Angel transports without exits. This is just my opinion of course.

And once again, I am very calm.
The only thing starting to damage my calm is your slightly condescending insisting on me having to calm down. I don't think that it is intentional on your part, so I'll just let it slide.

Steelmage99 wrote:The Multi-tracker doesn't refer to Crisis suits. It refers to "battlesuit weapon systems". The Broadside is a battlesuit. its weapons are battlesuit weapon systems. Hence the Broadside part of the RAW-fun isn't really relevant.

"Battlesuit Weapon Systems
Airbursting Fragmentation Projector (Special Issue)
Burst Cannon
Cyclic ion blaster (Special Issue)
Flamer
Fusion blaster
Missle pod
Plasma Rifle"

I don't see Railgun... sorry. :(

Which I already addressed with;

The Armoury entry in the Wargear section is not an exhaustive list of the battlesuit weapons in existence. It is a list of the battlesuit weapons available to buy outside of your unit entry.

The function of the Armoury isn't to present an exhaustive list of battle suit weapons. The function is to list those weapons available under the special circumstance of having access to the Armoury.

Anyway this isn't the place for this discussion.
Should you feel it warrants further discussion, please make a separate thread.

I believe we have derailed this thread more than enough.

...The battlesuit weapon list is NOT the wargear list either...

I edited my post while you posted.

Lets take it elsewhere if you feel it warrants it.

Hey, OP, please edit the original post with big words saying something to the effect of "Take your arguments to PM or a different thread". This is just ridiculous.

i didn't see this on the updated list and i don't think got errata but:

Ghazghkull's waaaugh effect that makes fleet an auto six doesn't work in 5th since everyone runs in the shooting phase. Fleet simply allows you to assault after running.

And of course that you can run first, then declare the Waaagh after to full effect, and avoid taking any wounds.