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ArbitorIan wrote:UPDATED AGAIN. Monoliths get their own section now...!

Gwar! wrote:Blood Angels Drop Pods do not have to be placed in Reserve, and can in fact begin the game deployed

Wonderful, but why?

great wall of drop pods? blocking key areas of the board could be useful ... ok they have to be in your deployment area but still

I rather think he meant; "how?", but I can't be sure.

ArbitorIan wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Blood Angels Drop Pods do not have to be placed in Reserve, and can in fact begin the game deployed

Wonderful, but why?

The Blood Angels PDF doesn't include the 'Drop Pod Assault' rule. Instead, the Inertial Guidance system gives the pod permission (but does not require) to be kept in Reserve and deploy by Deep Strike.

So you can choose instead to just deploy the pod on the table at the start of the game.

Line of sight must be traced from the eyes of the firing model to any part of the body of at least one of the models in the target unit (for 'body' we mean its head, torso, legs and arms.)

Uhm, so you have to see the rider's head, torso, legs, or arms in order to shoot at a bike?

Holy hell, I need to convert my Bikers then!

ArbitorIan wrote:UPDATED AGAIN. Monoliths get their own section now...!

Gwar! wrote:Blood Angels Drop Pods do not have to be placed in Reserve, and can in fact begin the game deployed

Wonderful, but why?

Notice any rule stating they have to be placed in reserve?

Nope.

No Tyranids gain any benefit from their CC weapons. On pg 33 of the codex is states they do not use/wield any CC weapons. Then there are a list of biomorphs called CC weapons and as per page 42 of the rulebook you have to be the wielder in order to gain any benefits from special close combat weapons.

"No model in codex Tyranids can use Bone Swords. Bone Swords only give a bonus to Tyranids that use them. There is no unit in the codex called a Tyranid."

Tyranid Warrior,
Tyranid Prime
Tyranid Shrike

All have the word tyranid is their name so yes they can use them. In addition since BS come as standard on a HT i would go as to say they can use them too, since this thread is nasty RAW.

ArbitorIan wrote:

Klawz wrote:

Davor wrote:My favorite is rerolling rerolls. GW say you can never reroll a reroll correct? So when you roll to see who goes first, and it's a tie, you have to reroll. If it becomes a tie again, techiquely, the game should be over because you can'r reroll a reroll

In that case, you start a new game.

Of course, but in a RAW Tourney situation, you'd instantly draw, right?

No, because it is not rerolling rerolls, it is a roll off, which according to the rule on page 2 continues until one player is the winner.

Phish Skills wrote:"No model in codex Tyranids can use Bone Swords. Bone Swords only give a bonus to Tyranids that use them. There is no unit in the codex called a Tyranid."

Tyranid Warrior,
Tyranid Prime
Tyranid Shrike

All have the word tyranid is their name so yes they can use them. In addition since BS come as standard on a HT i would go as to say they can use them too, since this thread is nasty RAW.

Of course, this is a silly ruling but the RAW would be that since the unit is called a 'Tyranid Warrior' and not a 'Tyranid' it doesn't count. These are two different things....

It's the same as the Leman Russ one. There is a unit called the 'Leman Russ Battle Tank' and a unit called the 'Leman Russ Exterminator' but no unit called the 'Leman Russ'. Since only the 'Leman Russ' is listed a having a battlecannon, we have to assume that either NO variant has a battlecannon (there is no 'Leman Russ') or EVERYTHING called a 'Leman Russ' has one (so a Leman Russ Exterminatot has two autocannons AND a battlecannon in it's turret).

Exact spelling of unit names is important.....


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time wizard wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:

Klawz wrote:

Davor wrote:My favorite is rerolling rerolls. GW say you can never reroll a reroll correct? So when you roll to see who goes first, and it's a tie, you have to reroll. If it becomes a tie again, techiquely, the game should be over because you can'r reroll a reroll

In that case, you start a new game.

Of course, but in a RAW Tourney situation, you'd instantly draw, right?

No, because it is not rerolling rerolls, it is a roll off, which according to the rule on page 2 continues until one player is the winner.

Ah, well done, i shall remove this one.

Coming from a question about the Ork Boarding Plank, I noticed that it can not be used if either vehicle has moved more than 12". Not 'more than 12" that turn...' So that 12" would be the total distance the vehicle has moved that game.

So on a regular table, the plank is rarely going to see any use, since unless they set up directly opposite each other and move towards each other in a more or less straight line, no two vehicles are going to wind up close enough together to use the plank without having moved more than 12" in total.

Flat out scout moves work like this with RAW:

Skimmer moves flat out in the scout move gains no cover save as it is not done in a movement phase.

Bike turbo boosts in scout move gains cover save in "opponent's next shooting phase", so does get the benefit. And in fact even gets the benefit is the biker is going first and then doesn't turbo boost in his movement phase. Mean he could turbo boost in the scout move. Move normally in the movement phase. Shoot a unit assault it sweeping advance and still claim the 3+ cover save in your opponents next shooting phase...


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Ironclad dreadnoughts strike at I1 with a chainfist but I4 with anything else...

Ironclad dreds never get a bonus attack, as they are always armed with 2 different special close combat weapons, and the rule for 2 different special close combat weapons is that you can never claim the bonus for having multiple close combat weapons.

daedalus wrote:Turret flamers on vehicles are generally unusable because they overlap a friendly model.

Nork Deddog is not an Ogryn.

=][= chimeras that become open-topped when inquisitorial stormtroopers shoot out of them, but IG chimeras that are cheaper and aren't open topped ever.

To pose a potential answer. Although older, they have not been completely retconned, one of the Chapter Approved books had a nice clarification open-topped vehicles. Although, it didn't clear it up completely. It stated that transports with troops in power-armour do not become oper-topped when you pop the hatches to fire out of them (Tac Space Marines in Rhinos), but troops not in power-armour (IG in chimeras) become open-topped. This was justified because power-armour is strong enough to take the hit. However, the Chimera has 6 Lasguns mounted on the top/sides for the embarked passengers to use...

Possibly an oversight in the current IG codex. Some rules just don't make sense, the daemonhunters codex, in my opinion, was not well thought out. I think GW had a cool idea and ran with it.

Another instance is that DH Assault Cannons do not have rending. Every other Assault Cannon in game does, of course rending Assault Cannons were after DH Codex came out. I have heard different explanations, but nothing from an official source. Not a DH player and I usually tell my opponent to use rending as it only seems fair. Merely a point of order.

"No model in codex Tyranids can use Bone Swords. Bone Swords only give a bonus to Tyranids that use them. There is no unit in the codex called a Tyranid."

Hmm...isn't the name of the book Codex: Tyranids? Isn't everything in the book therefore a Tyranid? If not, then I guess Fortune doesn't work, since it can only target Eldar units.

Of course, not every model in Codex: Necrons is a Necron...

The master of the forge can't bolster deffences bacause the rule refers to a Techmarine.


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The summary execution rule for the commisar says that if the re-roll is failed the unit falls back, which means that no matter what kind of test was re-rolled, a pinning test for example, the unit must fall back.

Ironclad dreds never get a bonus attack, as they are always armed with 2 different special close combat weapons, and the rule for 2 different special close combat weapons is that you can never claim the bonus for having multiple close combat weapons.

If you look at the section of Dreadnought Close combat weapons it states the Dread gets a bonus attack for each CCW it has regardless of whether they are different or the same.

In theory for dreads if the Ironclad could take a chainfist and Siesmic hammer iot would roll 2d6 on the damage chart and +1 to the damage table though... Dreads are essentially a special case.

Actually in order to get a chainfist the ironclad must replace his s.hammer, he could however have any of the two with an additional DCCW for the extra attack.

Hesperus wrote:"No model in codex Tyranids can use Bone Swords. Bone Swords only give a bonus to Tyranids that use them. There is no unit in the codex called a Tyranid."

Hmm...isn't the name of the book Codex: Tyranids? Isn't everything in the book therefore a Tyranid? If not, then I guess Fortune doesn't work, since it can only target Eldar units.

Of course, not every model in Codex: Necrons is a Necron...

Boink!

Actually in order to get a chainfist the ironclad must replace his s.hammer, he could however have any of the two with an additional DCCW for the extra attack.

I know that's why I said in theory and "if the Ironclad could"...

He still gains the extra attack with either weapon and a DCCW. He can't take a 2nd DCCW that is not an option.

FlingitNow wrote:If you look at the section of Dreadnought Close combat weapons it states the Dread gets a bonus attack for each CCW it has regardless of whether they are different or the same.

It actually DOESNT say any of that bolded stuff at all, last time I checked.. It says that you get '+1 attack for each CCW after the first'. This is unlike normal ccw which cap out at +1 attack only for having more than 1 ccw. However, dreads still follow the rules for close combat weapons. For example, your DCCW is also power weapon, and thus you use the special weapon rules for powerweapons; if you have 2 different special combat weapons, the special weapon rules disalow the bonus attacks in exchange for granting 2 different special weapon rules. You cant take some of the special ccw weapon rules and not others.

As for the chainfist example, like a power weapon DCCW you follow the rules for a powerfist. The powerfist ALSO disallows bonus attacks--again you cant take some of the special weapon rules and not others. Thus, both the seismic hammer and the chainfist disallow the +1 attack normally granted for having 2 ccw.

Remember FlingitNow this is the RAW for fun list. Obviously they included the bonus attack for 2 ccw in the profile of the ironclad, so GW forgot about the rules for special weapons--but we dont care about intentions here, only funny RAW stuff.

As an aside, only the ironclad has 2 kinds of special ccws from what I remember. The defiler i believe is the one that has 2 DCCW and can add regular CCWs as an upgrade option, and I 'think' all the other dreads all have only combinations of regular DCCW.

As for the chainfist example, like a power weapon DCCW you follow the rules for a powerfist. The powerfist ALSO disallows bonus attacks--again you cant take some of the special weapon rules and not others. Thus, both the seismic hammer and the chainfist disallow the +1 attack normally granted for having 2 ccw.

OK I'll give you the Chainfist but the DCCW has nothing to do with a powerfist and neither does the seismic hammer. Hence neither prohibits the +1 attack. However the rule states on page 73 "If a walker is armed with two or more close combat weapons, it gains one bonus attack for each weapon over the first". Thus the dread gains an additional attack for each CCW with in this case would be +1 attack as it has 2 CCWs. This rule overrides the 2 signle-handed special weapons rule on page 42 as it specifically refers to Dreads and how they work.

How does it over ride anything?

You agree the dread is armed with 2 different special close combat weapons, correct?

We have a rule that says how dreads get bonus attacks in GENERAL, and we have a rule for SPECIFIC weapon combinations, that only the ironclad has, that disallow bonus attacks. If the dread did not specificly have 2 different special close combat weapons, it would not invoke this rule, correct?

It overrides because its specific to walkers as opposed to the more general models, and everyone knows the more specific rule is the one that takes priority when it comes to unit types.

Edit: To make it more clear, any unit (infantry, MC, cavalary, Beast, etc.) that has 2 different special weapons can't get +1 attack (Rulebook p.42), unless its a walker where the rule specific for walkers takes effect (Rulebook p.73).

page 73, and I quote, "Walkers fight like infantry models."

By your admission, infantry models that have 2 different special weapons cant get +1 attack. I know I'm not making this stuff up.

Please quote the rule that states, SPECIFICALLY, that walkers gain +1 attack for 2 different special close combat weapons, which would contradict my above quote that walkers fight like infantry models.

For the love of! Do you want dakka to get a C&D from GW just grab a damn rulebook and look at page 73, the rule has a huge Dreadnought close combat weapons headline and the last paragraph states that a walker gets an additional attack for each CCW after the first.

"the last paragraph states that a walker gets an additional attack for each CCW after the first"

Yes, walkers do get an additional attack for each CCW after the first. They also fight like infantry. They do both at the same time.

If a dreadnaught/infantry is armed with 2 different special CCW, which the ironclad, and only the ironclad, is, then like infantry 'these models must choose which weapon to use that turn, but never get the bonus attack for using two weapons [which, again, the ironclad is using 2 weapons, and they are 2 different special weapons]'

'for the love of' page 42.

Or do you believe nothing on page 42 applies to dreadnoughts?

The walker rules on p.73 do state that they use the same assault mechanic as infantry but are then provided with an additional rule, the DCCW rule, to replace the CCW on p.42, so yes nothing on that page applies to walkers since it explains how infantry interact wit CCWs not walkers.

PS:
Also i want to ask you a question if all assault rules for infantry apply to walkers does that mean they'r opponent has to roll to wound them rather than roll to penetrate, because the rules on p.39 say so or does he use the rule on p.73 that's specific to walkers and roll to pen. the front armor?

Next line under "walkers fight like infantry models" addresses that 'however, walkers resolve attacks against them like vehicles'.

Also, you state that the walker rules over ride pg 42, but in fact they over ride page 37, second bullet point in 'number of attacks'. Page 42 gives SPECIFIC examples on when the second bullet point does not apply, as page 42 SPECIFICALLY deals with weapons, and in the case of the ironclad, being armed with 2 special close combat weapons.

We all (or I think we all) know about specific versus general. In general, models get +1 attack for being armed with 2 ccw, and no bonus for additional ccw. Walkers specifically get no cap for ccw. Models with special close combat weapons specifically use the rules for special close combat weapons, and special close combat weapon rules over ride the rules for when models gain bonus attacks.

I get you dont like the RAW, but face it, the ironclad is armed with 2 special close combat weapons, FACT, and thus must choose only one weapon at a time in combat with no bonus attack. Such is the penalty for wielding too many complex weapons!

Warptime requires you to reroll ALL hits and ALL wounds, not just unsuccessful hits/wounds.

You may always claim a 5+ cover save by insisting your models are in cover to your opponent and having him/her disagree.