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Can I put a heavy weapon squad inside and shoot from the top? I am a bit foggy on the details of what I can shoot out.

tldr wrote:Can I put a heavy weapon squad inside and shoot from the top? I am a bit foggy on the details of what I can shoot out.

You can shoot anything you want. That can be, for example:
An Autocannon
An Autocannon and 4 Lasguns
An Autocannon, a Lascannon and a Mortar.
5 Plasmaguns

tldr wrote:Can I put a heavy weapon squad inside and shoot from the top? I am a bit foggy on the details of what I can shoot out.

Of course if the vehicle moves the HW can't fire.

Gwar! wrote:

tldr wrote:Can I put a heavy weapon squad inside and shoot from the top? I am a bit foggy on the details of what I can shoot out.

You can shoot anything you want. That can be, for example:
An Autocannon
An Autocannon and 4 Lasguns
An Autocannon, a Lascannon and a Mortar.
5 Plasmaguns

Nope, as far as heavy weapons are concerned You are not allowed to fire heavy weapons within the transport.
As stated in the rule book, page 67

page 67
Models firing from a Vehicle count as moving if a vehichle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehichle moved at cruising speed that turn.
Page 29
If a unit moves then it cannot shoot heavy weapons - they either move or shoot but not both.

Cambak wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

tldr wrote:Can I put a heavy weapon squad inside and shoot from the top? I am a bit foggy on the details of what I can shoot out.

You can shoot anything you want. That can be, for example:
An Autocannon
An Autocannon and 4 Lasguns
An Autocannon, a Lascannon and a Mortar.
5 Plasmaguns

Nope, as far as heavy weapons are concerned You are not allowed to fire heavy weapons within the transport.
As stated in the rule book, page 67

page 67
Models firing from a Vehicle count as moving if a vehichle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehichle moved at cruising speed that turn.
Page 29
If a unit moves then it cannot shoot heavy weapons - they either move or shoot but not both.

Huh?

HW can be fired. If the transport moves than the squad counts as moving and the HW can't be fired as I've already pointed out. Are you saying they can't be fired at all? If so, sorry, my vote is your wrong.

IIRC: heavy weapons can't be fired by a moving vehicle unless A) it has a special rule (see leman russ) or B)
the weapon is counted as a defensive weapon.

Byte wrote:

Cambak wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

tldr wrote:Can I put a heavy weapon squad inside and shoot from the top? I am a bit foggy on the details of what I can shoot out.

You can shoot anything you want. That can be, for example:
An Autocannon
An Autocannon and 4 Lasguns
An Autocannon, a Lascannon and a Mortar.
5 Plasmaguns

Nope, as far as heavy weapons are concerned You are not allowed to fire heavy weapons within the transport.
As stated in the rule book, page 67

page 67
Models firing from a Vehicle count as moving if a vehichle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehichle moved at cruising speed that turn.
Page 29
If a unit moves then it cannot shoot heavy weapons - they either move or shoot but not both.

Huh?

HW can be fired. If the transport moves than the squad counts as moving and the HW can't be fired as I've already pointed out. Are you saying they can't be fired at all? If so, sorry, my vote is your wrong.

Sorry, I wasn't implying that you couldn't at all, unfortunately we apparently typed our responses at exactly the same time. I just know that some places (like places I play at, the jerks) just plain say you can't.

Cambak:

Maybe you should play with people that know the basic rules of the game.

Nurglitch wrote:Cambak:

Maybe you should play with people that know the basic rules of the game.

QFT

Sounds like some rules bending going on.

My question has always been: do the passenger's weapons count as defensive weapons if they meet the other criteria? The rules don't seem to say.

BTW: if Creed really said: "Though our tanks and artillery are mighty, it is the vast ranks of Imperial Guardsmen that shall trample the enemy to dust - let them come." he's very clearly NOT a 'tactical genius'.

BRB page 66. Fire points: Riders cannot fire at all at cruising speed.

Byte wrote:BRB page 66. Fire points: Riders cannot fire at all at cruising speed.

Yes, but what about at Combat Speed? EX: I move at combat speed, and my infantry has a (theoretical) heavy weapon with a str of 4 or less. Would it count as a defensive weapon, and thus be able to fire regardless of the infantry counting as having moved, or not?

BaronIveagh wrote:

Byte wrote:BRB page 66. Fire points: Riders cannot fire at all at cruising speed.

Yes, but what about at Combat Speed? EX: I move at combat speed, and my infantry has a (theoretical) heavy weapon with a str of 4 or less. Would it count as a defensive weapon, and thus be able to fire regardless of the infantry counting as having moved, or not?

??? No. The unit is the one firing the weapon, not the vehicle.

The embarked unit could fire Rapid Fire weapons as if they had moved, and the Assault Weapons they had available, but since they would count as moving when the transport moved, they would not be able to fire Heavy Weapons.

The embarked squad's Heavy Weapon is not the vehicle's weapon and does not count towards that vehicle's compliment of weaponry for the purposes of shooting.

Eh, can't tell that I tend to disembark the infantry and advance either in front of, or behind, the tanks when playing Chimera IG.

Since Air Mobile has been mentioned, and I've been eying the idea, I'll pop this up and see what people think:



Company Command Squad
Heavy Flamer; Meltagun; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Camo Cloak; Medi-pack; Vox
Caster
1 Nork Deddog
1 Colonel Straken
1 Astropath
1 Master of Ordnance
1 Officer of the Fleet

Veteran Squad
1 Gunnery Sgt. Harker
Close Combat Weapon; Lasgun (x6); Grenade Launcher (x1); Meltagun (x1);
Plasma Guns (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Camo Cloak;Snare Mines; Vox Caster

Veteran Squad
Close Combat Weapon; Lasgun (x4); Flamer (x1); Heavy Flamer; Meltagun
(x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Camo Cloak; Snare Mines;
Vox Caster

Veteran Weapons Team
Missile Launcher; Camo Cloak; Snare Mines

Veteran Sergeant
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Flak
Armour; Camo Cloak; Snare Mines

Sly Marbo

Ratling Squad

1 Valkyrie Assault Carrier Squadron (Fast Attack)
Lascannon; Multiple Rocket Pods (2); Heavy Bolter Sponsons


1 Valkyrie Assault Carrier
Lascannon; Multiple Rocket Pods (2); Heavy Bolter Sponsons

1 Valkyrie Assault Carrier Squadron (Fast Attack)
Lascannon; Hellstrike Missiles (2); Heavy Bolter Sponsons


1 Valkyrie Assault Carrier #1
Lascannon; Hellstrike Missiles (2); Heavy Bolter Sponsons


Thoughts?

Wasnt it solar macharius who said that? and he is a tactical god

BaronIveagh wrote:IIRC: heavy weapons can't be fired by a moving vehicle unless A) it has a special rule (see leman russ) or B)
the weapon is counted as a defensive weapon.

Oh, that's where your problem is. The passengers are not part of the vehicle and their shooting is not included in the vehicle's shooting. They shoot using the rules for infantry. Defensive and main weapons are part of the rules for vehicles shooting, and the passengers are not a vehicle. Heavy and assault don't matter at all to vehicles, it's just the strength value that determines if a weapon is main or defensive. The exact rules for what weapons you can fire at various speeds of movement are found somewhere in the vehicle rules of the main rulebook. For the passengers, there is no such thing as a main or defensive weapon. If the weapon is heavy it can not be fired if the unit moved or counts as moving, such as if they are embarked in a moving transport. Furthermore, the embarked unit can not shoot at all if the vehicle moved more than 6".

No, Ersatz Alexander the Great said soemthing about crushing things with tanks. Which is a better idea. (Ideally, it's bombs, then artillery, then tanks backed up by the dogfaces.)

Anyway, yes you could embark a heavy weapons squad in a chimera and fire all three out of the fire point as long as you stay stationary. However, heavy weapons squads can not buy Chimeras for themselves. Chimeras are only available as dedicated transports for other units, so the heavy weapons squad could not start the game embarked in one. They would have to spend a turn embarking, and in that turn they would count as moving and be unable to shoot. This isn't a terribly common tactic.

Eh personally im fond of the 200 imp gaurdsmen and 20+ lascannons.