Warhammer 40k MMO name announced: Dark Millennium

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**Karon**

They mind as well call it Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine Online

**Borkin**

I get those 2 games confused.

**Generalstoner**

The only thing that scares me about a MMO is the constant grind you have to go through just to play it and level your character up. The other thing I am assuming is that it is going to be PC based which doesn't exactly light me on fire either. Even top end computers can have trouble with large MMO's unless you go and spend $2000 on one of those alienware comps.

**Karon**

MMO's can only be on CPU's....

I have a $600 CPU, and it's never had problem with raiding on WoW, or City-Sacking on WAR, so $2000 is a terrible misconception.

**ph34r**

Generalstoner wrote:Even top end computers can have trouble with large MMO's unless you go and spend $2000 on one of those alienware comps.

I'm sorry, what? Do you actually own a computer or are you just making up whatever numbers you want?

**Aramus**

Luthon1234 wrote:
Aramus wrote:

UO never really had that problem, you can almost always get the game for free. And honestly, it's not three games for the price of three. It's the same game, with more explorable area, and a switch set on the server to let a number get bigger. WoW is boring anyway.

Hopefully there will be open PvP in this game, and lots of it, with rewards for doing bigger and bigger PvP battles (more XP, better item drops, whatever)

One thing I hate about WoW is that there is no penalty for dying, and dungeons are danger free. I much preferred UO's open PvP system.

Well actually you can play WoW for free, it's just not as popular as UO was as free. Their are dedicated servers being ran and you can basically do whatever you want really.

The days of death penalty are long gone, no company would ever risk trying to implement that system with today's gamers, could you imagine the outcry? Basically no one want's to lose their "epicz lootz" by some random Pker or to a mob at the bottom of a dungeon.

Oops, I wasn't referring to the free servers, I meant the game itself. Almost always Origin had a free download for the game not soon after each expansion.

I miss the days of the death penalty though. Made the game exciting.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ph34r wrote:
Generalstoner wrote:Even top end computers can have trouble with large MMO's unless you go and spend $2000 on one of those alienware comps.
I'm sorry, what? Do you actually own a computer or are you just making up whatever numbers you want?

+1 I have a 5 year old plus computer that can run WoW just fine, and I've got less than $500 in it (and over 2 of that is monitors)

**Bavius**

See this is why the graphics are not "uber". In order to have scaling graphics, they tend to go with the more unrealistic/cartoony style so that a wider range of PC users can play.

Also, an alienware computer is not worth $2000, the component parts can be constructed at a much lower price by yourself. If you put little models together you can put a computer together.

**Karon**

Exactly, Bavius. Graphics like those in EQ2 require some decent computers. Even bad computers can run WoW with its cartoony, but WORKABLE graphics.

WoW's graphics are about as good as you get while maintaining a wide range of available computers to play the game. And Dark Millennium graphics look very similar to WoW's graphic's, which is a good thing.

**RogueMarket**

Computers as SO dirt cheap to make...

doesnt take a good pc or much effort to play these games.

**NeoMaul**

Doesn't look very Grimdark... looks more like wow gfx.

So what unique gameplay is going to separate this mmo from the standard mmo formula?

**Owain**

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!

Ahem... sorry. Needless to say, I'm quite excited.

**Ahtman**

Luthon1234 wrote:The days of death penalty are long gone

I'm guessing you didn't play Final Fantasy XI. You lost 10% of your xp for the level. It was possible to de-level.

**Ouze**

I'm very excited about World of Warhammer 40Kraft. I'm hoping to play as a Tau Shaman or a Tyranid Paladin.

In all seriousness, though, I have to say I'm a little less excited then I was initially - I hoped for an engine a little more like WAR or Aion or something like that. Still pretty highly excited though, and I could get over the graphics if they make the game difficult.

Is anyone organizing Dakka guilds?

**ph34r**

Ouze wrote:Is anyone organizing Dakka guilds?

The game isn't coming out for years. Isn't that a bit premature?

**Rube**

Aww man, micro-transactions? I was really excited for this MMO too, but cash-shops are a death sentence.

If you're not savvy with MMORPG jargon; micro-transactions are a scam to get you to pay more than you currently do on subscriptions. It works on the principle that most players don't mind spending 'only' 2-5 dollars on an ingame item to remain competitive. However, typically they have to buy such items many times a month to continue through the end-game, and end up spending far more than the regular $15 subscription fee.

I could go into more depth, but I'll copy-pasta a recent post I saw on another forum that not-so-succinctly details what is wrong with cash-shop games. Keep in mind that he is describing how CURRENT micro-transaction based games work, games that are on the market today.

As p2p players, why do we "hate" f2p? For me it narrows down to the f2p types of players. Imo there are 3 types of players for f2p's (i'm considering the crowd who plays the game for at least 15h/week):

Type1 - The free rider. The "i'm not gonna pay a dime to play" player type. He has lots of time usually, wants (not necessarily enjoys) and is able to grind for his stuff. His goal is to reach the point where he is able to generate that much of ingame currency that he does not need to use cash shop, and he will be able to buy cash shop items with ingame money.

Type2- The p2p player who wants to f2p (i belong here). He pays somewhere between 1x or 2x the p2p "standard" fee monthly (10-20$/month), buys only neccesities (some must-have-or-you-die buffs, item upgrade enhancers etc.), plans to buy the "extras" like mounts or pets or whatever the game offers from that cathegory with ingame money.

Type3- The Walking God. The hardcore with tons of money, which people suspect to be employed by the company who runs the game to create a "goal" (and i would not be shocked if that is in some cases true). He is logged in almost all day. He seem to have an infinite ammount of cash to spend in the cash shop. He always gets the latest item and the best equipment etc. He and others like him end up dominating the game. They win all pvp competitions, all pve events, everything.

At some moment of playing, the Type2 players realise that they will Never Ever be able to compete with the Walking Gods. The feeling of accomplishment totally dies. While the Type1 will continue to try, the Type2 will say to himself "well, i'm paying here more that i was paying for p2p and still i have less, much less" and will leave for another game where he will be tricked again in the same way.

One day, after usually years, some really skilled and medium equipped Type1's will be able to come close to the Walking Gods (the skill difference will compensate for the kit difference). At that moment, the company, needing to protect their Type3 players who pump tons of money into the game, starts the "nerf droprates of X and Y and Z". The Type1 cannot generate the same ammount of ingame currency to be able to compete with Type 3. Some of them usuall leave in rage, but most of them stay because they feel they have played for a few years and if they leave it would be just wasted. They keep trying. They come close again. Then there comes an "expansion" which for these games just means 2 quests 1 dungeon and *most important* a new tier of equipment and increased level cap. Another era of money pump from Type3. And so on, until it dies.

An example to illustrate:

I love the idea behind Atlantica Online. New, special ideas, turn based combat, there's nothing like it on the market. But at the top, the people fighting in the top 10 spots have some form of "ultimate" upgraded equipment, the upgrading till that level being doable only with cash shop items which would cost thousands up to tens of thousands of dollars (no i am not exaggerating). The top players are now 90% Walking Gods and 10% Type1's, so there's an expansion and increased lvl cap to "kill" the remaining Type1's and let the Gods duel on the model "whoever pumps more money wins". A regular MMO player cannot compete with that, no matter what skills he has what and how long he farms or how much time he spends ingame etc. but only if he invests a Ton of his RL money into the game.

On the other hand, in WoW (game which tricked lots of people into the instance farming since beta till now and lots ended up hating and leaving it for this reason, people are not stupid and they get bored of the same idea) all you need to be competitive is 3 months to farm the pvp equipment, if you got the skills, if you are good enough. Actually that's what WoW managed to do, they keep the high mass of population happy while offering the pvp for those who really need the "i am the best" feeling. Ok, so they're gonna make the hardcore players (and the ones which need to achieve something unique) angry. That's what, 0,01% of the population in the game?

We like to lose if we are not good enough, not if we do not have the will to invest the money for a car or a house into a videogame.

He's not joking either. Atlantica has pixels for sale for thousands of dollars. This is what they mean by 'micro'-transactions.

**SickSick6**

ph34r wrote:The game isn't coming out for years. Isn't that a bit premature?

I heard April 2011. Could just be hearsay though. I for one am very excited to see this finally come to fruition. From the trailer it does look like typical MMO mixed with a little FPS. I'm just happy to see they included a lot of good content right off the bat: BTs, GKs, Dreadnoughts, bikes & fething Warhounds! I think there were some orks in there too, but who gives a

j/k

Didn't see any Eldar though. Usually they start off with 4 basic races. As far as the quality of the game itself, that'll have to wait for actual gameplay...

**ph34r**

I didn't feel like it implied DMO will have microtransactions, but rather the microtransactions games were listed before the "and Dark Millenium".

**aka_mythos**

Well I think its silly to assume they'd set up a microtransaction system for two games but not the third. You're right its not explicit, but it'd be a poor business plan to have one game that might require a different purchase system.

Slackermagee wrote:
Why do I think this? Groups of IG firing together (and not looking like several different players), groups of Orks bumming around in a tight mob, three khorne beserkers with two standing around and one raging out.

It would seem to balance out the super-soldier bit that space marines get while also differentiating the game from its modern counterparts.

Well a number of the developement team also worked on Dawn of War II. So its no surprise. This will likely be DOWII but where each player has one maybe two units.

Karon wrote:They might as well call it Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine Online

There was alot more than Space Marines going on. There was chaos cultist, enginseers, imperial guard, a freakn' titan, and orks. I gurantee they will balance out space marines; its just bad game design otherwise. Just imagine all the different sentry type weapons an enginseer can deploy. Or that IG may have access to their special weapons at a lower level.

**Deathklaat**

Luthon1234 wrote:
Aramus wrote:

UO never really had that problem, you can almost always get the game for free. And honestly, it's not three games for the price of three. It's the same game, with more explorable area, and a switch set on the server to let a number get bigger. WoW is boring anyway.

Hopefully there will be open PvP in this game, and lots of it, with rewards for doing bigger and bigger PvP battles (more XP, better item drops, whatever)

One thing I hate about WoW is that there is no penalty for dying, and dungeons are danger free. I much preferred UO's open PvP system.

Well actually you can play WoW for free, it's just not as popular as UO was as free. Their are dedicated servers being ran and you can basically do whatever you want really.

The days of death penalty are long gone, no company would ever risk trying to implement that system with today's gamers, could you imagine the outcry? Basically no one want's to lose their "epicz lootz" by some random Pker or to a mob at the bottom of a dungeon.

except private servers are illegal and against the ELUA which is why Lineage 2 issued C&D orders to all of the Lineage 2 free servers.

Karon wrote:MMO's can only be on CPU's....

I have a $600 CPU, and it's never had problem with raiding on WoW, or City-Sacking on WAR, so $2000 is a terrible misconception.

you might want to check your info because both FF XI and Star Wars Galaxies (after the patch of death) both were available for consoles.

**Aramus**

Deathklaat wrote:
Luthon1234 wrote:
Aramus wrote:

UO never really had that problem, you can almost always get the game for free. And honestly, it's not three games for the price of three. It's the same game, with more explorable area, and a switch set on the server to let a number get bigger. WoW is boring anyway.

Hopefully there will be open PvP in this game, and lots of it, with rewards for doing bigger and bigger PvP battles (more XP, better item drops, whatever)

One thing I hate about WoW is that there is no penalty for dying, and dungeons are danger free. I much preferred UO's open PvP system.

Well actually you can play WoW for free, it's just not as popular as UO was as free. Their are dedicated servers being ran and you can basically do whatever you want really.

The days of death penalty are long gone, no company would ever risk trying to implement that system with today's gamers, could you imagine the outcry? Basically no one want's to lose their "epicz lootz" by some random Pker or to a mob at the bottom of a dungeon.

except private servers are illegal and against the ELUA which is why Lineage 2 issued C&D orders to all of the Lineage 2 free servers.

Except not. Against some EULA !=illegal, and just because a company sends a C&D doesn't make them right.

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

SickSick6 wrote:I heard April 2011. Could just be hearsay though.

The only date we have been given is 2012, no actual period within it, (although my money would be winter) and that was from THQ, not Vigil.

**radiohazard**

Generalstoner wrote:Even top end computers can have trouble with large MMO's unless you go and spend $2000 on one of those alienware comps.

I can sort of see where you are coming from in regards to some MMO. Star Trek Online needs an uber PC to run. That stupid 5.6 rating it requires has killed many of my friends gaming rigs.

Bavius wrote:See this is why the graphics are not "uber". In order to have scaling graphics, they tend to go with the more unrealistic/cartoony style so that a wider range of PC users can play.

Also, an alienware computer is not worth $2000, the component parts can be constructed at a much lower price by yourself. If you put little models together you can put a computer together.

QFT!!!

Alienware PC are a complete waste of money. I have a gaming rig that cost me £1500 (£2000 inc a 32" monitor/TV) and I compared it to a £3000 Alienware PC that an old housemate had. He had half the gear, half the power and it struggled to run STO at max settings.

My advice for anyone buying an Alienware, for christ sake don't. Go to a small private retailer and they will build you a machine that will destroy an Alienware with ease. You'll get a much better machine for half the cost.

**Luthon1234**

Ahtman wrote:
Luthon1234 wrote:The days of death penalty are long gone

I'm guessing you didn't play Final Fantasy XI. You lost 10% of your xp for the level. It was possible to de-level.

Yea I played that game, that was kinda after UO and before WoW. But who plays that game anymore? I still get nightmares of endless nights of LFG and trying to grind with a warrior and getting killed by some random ghost and losing the whole nights exp.

**Kanluwen**

Karon wrote:Exactly, Bavius. Graphics like those in EQ2 require some decent computers. Even bad computers can run WoW with its cartoony, but WORKABLE graphics.

WoW's graphics are about as good as you get while maintaining a wide range of available computers to play the game. And Dark Millennium graphics look very similar to WoW's graphic's, which is a good thing.

This is a very important distinction.
WoW is so successful, in the minds of Blizzard at least, simply because anyone interested can run it. They don't need a high end machine to run it. You just need a decent computer and an internet connection.

**Archonate**

Kanluwen wrote:WoW is so successful, in the minds of Blizzard at least, simply because anyone interested can run it. They don't need a high end machine to run it. You just need a decent computer and an internet connection.

This is more important than a lot of game developers realize. They're always boasting about their superior graphics, but all MMO players really care about is stability and smooth function. 'Amazing graphics' is just a fancy way of saying 'clunky gameplay and choppy framerates'. And those are a couple of things that no MMO player will tolerate, regardless of how pretty it looks.

And I agree that if this game is like DoW2, but closer up and more personal, then it will be amazing. Being able to customize a whole squad instead of one character would set the game apart from other MMOs in an interesting way. It would give the combat the appearance of an actual 40k battle.

**aka_mythos**

When it comes to free servers of a game, they can be legal if they meet certain criteria, one of the big ones being obsolecence, where by its an older version of the software.

EULA, are very unpopular within the legal community, it is an inevitability they will be made illegal with in the next 10-15 years. The unpopularity stems from the fact they're made without consideration, you get nothing in exchange for agreeing to unfair terms, and you have no way of reading into them before you've made a purchase which leaves you in a position where you have an inability to disagree.

Even still just because an EULA says something doesn't make it binding. A statement that says they "own your soul" if you use the software is just as absurd as many of the restrictions they place in EULA's on how you use the software. Its just a lot less worry to go along with it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Archonate wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:WoW is so successful, in the minds of Blizzard at least, simply because anyone interested can run it. They don't need a high end machine to run it. You just need a decent computer and an internet connection.
This is more important than a lot of game developers realize. They're always boasting about their superior graphics, but all MMO players really care about is stability and smooth function. 'Amazing graphics' is just a fancy way of saying 'clunky gameplay and choppy framerates'. And those are a couple of things that no MMO player will tolerate, regardless of how pretty it looks.

Agreed. I don't think its too much of the fault of the designer for dreaming big as it is just the reality of where broadband internet services are and where the median gaming machine is.

Archonate wrote:
And I agree that if this game is like DoW2, but closer up and more personal, then it will be amazing. Being able to customize a whole squad instead of one character would set the game apart from other MMOs in an interesting way. It would give the combat the appearance of an actual 40k battle.

Based on DOW, I imagine we'll see squads driven by a character, who is the commander of the squad. At the start a "sgt" who can work towards given paths redefining the nature of his squad as he goes. I imagine in addition to that we'll see some sort of support slot which will allow the squad to take things like bikes, or Rhinos, or dreadnoughts, or predators to directly support the squad. A number of those things are shown, so its a question of how they're controlled or restircted. Example, if someone fields a Warhound titan is that inplace of his squad who are assumed riding it or is it in addition to the squad; will access be goverened by level or class (or similar mechanism). We see lone Enginseers running around, a warhound could well be their maxed level upgrade.

Looking at the trailer, they have Ultramarines and Black Templars running around for loyalist with alot of the detailed integrated into their modeling. I'm curious if we'll be able to customize our chapter colors or if we're limited to chapters as if they were a class or race.

**Dystopia**

Side with the forces of Order, or the vile hosts of Destruction, in a war that will unlock ancient secrets, reveal dark purposes, and determine the fate of the Sargos Sector. For in this dark millennium, there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

))))))))))))))))))))))

Sorry, no way I'm ever gonna play WAR Online in 40k setting.

http://www.darkmillenniumonline.com/

**Rymafyr**

Dystopia wrote:Side with the forces of Order, or the vile hosts of Destruction, in a war that will unlock ancient secrets, reveal dark purposes, and determine the fate of the Sargos Sector. For in this dark millennium, there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ))))))))))))))))))))))

Sorry, no way I'm ever gonna play WAR Online in 40k setting.

http://www.darkmillenniumonline.com/

Yay! FACTIONS...I'll pass. They should have gone w/ more of a Rouge Trader bent...

**Kanluwen**

If you're going to bitch about factions, at least wait until they announce what the faction make-up will be.

Chaos and Orks work quite well together, and have for quite awhile.

Space Marines and Imperial Guard...well, I don't think I should have to explain that one.

**daedalus-templarius**

I'd prefer more than 2 factions... but I'll still play it.

Problem with 2 factions is the game is way too susceptible to massive population imbalances.