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sennacherib wrote:Chaos dread. My friends all play chaos and i cant tell you how many times they have blown up his landraiders, flamered his men and just generally screwed them hard.

No, this is one of the BETTER units in the game actually, your friend should learn to position his dread so that it is not facing his men and does not have his men between his opponent. Two plasma cannon shots +two frag/crak shots is NEVER a bad day.

Worst HQ-
Space Pope or Autarch would be high in the running

Worst Elite-
Biovore or Death Cult Assasins (both arguably the worst units in the game)

Worst Troop-
Hard one, but gotta go with Storm Guardians or Ripper Swarms

Worst Fast-
I see your hellions and raise you a Vyper and Swooping Hawk sir

Worst Heavy-
So much fail in the eldar heavy support, so lets just say Nightspinner Support Platform and call it a day at that.

Chaos spawns are only bad in 1 of 3 games. If you're not playing kill points, they can be a nightmare for your opponent.

I want to try playing the following list eventually for 2500:

Sorc in termi armor, gift of chaos, MoT.
2 squads of Plague Marine, 2 x melta, Rhino
43 spawns.

Sit the HQ/troops into cover on objectives and let the fun begin. Anything trying to heard them will be caught pretty fast due to their potential 24 inches threat range.

Phazael wrote:Worst HQ-
Space Pope or Autarch would be high in the running

Cause +1 to reserve rolls is never a good thing... (hell I'd pay 100 pts for it as a CSM player without even requesting a model)

Phazael wrote:
Worst Elite-
Biovore or Death Cult Assasins (both arguably the worst units in the game)

I assume you made the same mistake I made earlier and said Biovore instead of Pyrovore...

DCAs are great, idk what you are smoking here...

Phazael wrote:
Worst Troop-
Hard one, but gotta go with Storm Guardians or Ripper Swarms

I will admit I forgot the fail that is storm guardians... that is of course if you can't find the utility for a 92 point 31 attacks on charge 2 melta gun carrying scoring unit...

Phazael wrote:
Worst Fast-
I see your hellions and raise you a Vyper and Swooping Hawk sir

Obvious troll is obvious

Phazael wrote:
Worst Heavy-
So much fail in the eldar heavy support, so lets just say Nightspinner Support Platform and call it a day at that.

Autarchs aren't bad. Not great, but not bad. Give em a jetbike, Lance and Mandiblasters and they become potential brutal.

[quote=Daemon-Archon Ren

Repentia are better then...

Mandrakes

The Decapitator
(The above two cannot be deployed in 1 of 3 game missions in 5th edition, and even in the two that you CAN take them, you'd be hard pressed finding a reason actually TO take them)

Hellions

Grotesques

Firewarriors

Space Pope

Codex: Necron (except the Monolith)

Biovores

Weird Boyz

Flash Gitz

Chaos Spawn

Ahriman (Debateable)

the list goes on.

Just because they are the 'worst' choice in your codex, does not make them the most useless.

Yes Seraphim are better and thus make Repentia a far less attractive choice in a which hunters army, but to list repentia as "The most useless unit in 40K" for that reason would be like saying Tac marines are the most useless unit in 40k when in a BA army because Assault marines are "so much better".

Phazael wrote:Worst HQ-
Space Pope or Autarch would be high in the running

Worst Elite-
Biovore or Death Cult Assasins (both arguably the worst units in the game)

Worst Troop-
Hard one, but gotta go with Storm Guardians or Ripper Swarms

Worst Fast-
I see your hellions and raise you a Vyper and Swooping Hawk sir

Worst Heavy-
So much fail in the eldar heavy support, so lets just say Nightspinner Support Platform and call it a day at that.

I agree with nothing you said. Autarchs are way better than some of the other eldar HQs. Worst troop can't be rippers. They serve some positions.Death Cults are half decent,compared to some of the other crappy assassins.
Vypers are way better that repentia and chaos spawn. The eldar heavy support section is fine, you just don't know how to use them right.

I can tell you have an obvious dislike for the eldar...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, how the heck is ahriman useless? He's a specific HQ for a specific type of CSM army. Besides that, he usually works fine, never had any problems with him.

Samus_aran115 wrote:
Also, how the heck is ahriman useless? He's a specific HQ for a specific type of CSM army. Besides that, he usually works fine, never had any problems with him.

You can build a Chaos Terminator Sorcerer with better wargear for less points then him...

Also, his 250 point lack of Eternal Warrior (also, keep in mind, IIRC he is the ONLY unit worth 250+ without EW) is problematic

Couple that with his 0 Anti-psyker defense make him not worth 250 point

if he were 205, or 215, or in Termi Armor (or Artificer) with EW he would be worth 250 points but in all honesty, you can get better for less points, thus making him weaker.

Keep in mind the "Debatable" bullet.

Yeah...But he can use three powers per turn....

Underpowered != worthless/useless.



Dominions are very underpowered (or rather, overpriced), but they aren't worthless/useless. Same with Celestians to an extent (they'd be just fine if they had BP+CCW).

Samus_aran115 wrote:Yeah...But he can use three powers per turn....

3 powers a turn...

so at 6 inches he can cause 3 toughness tests (most needing 5+s to matter, so yeah...)

or he can

Warp time - Flame - Doom bolt on a squad with 3+ or worse saves (probably the best combo with him) and kill a bunch of guys that are in flame template range.... again, without deepstrike-ability kinda weak

Warptime - Bolt - Wind on a vehicle so you MIGHT get a glance/pen then an additional potential glance (in which warptime isn't helping)

Or Warptime - Bolt - Force weapon an IC/Special Character and potentially do some damage there (but most characters are better then him in melee)

I'd rather take a warptime-wind/bolt sorcerer with wings/familier and MoT that can fly 12 inches and still be versatile for less points

or better yet, 3 Oblits (with will be much nastier to Infantry/Tanks, can deepstrike, and has double the potential wounds, and doesn't get negged by Hoods/Runes/Shadows of the warp) and spend the extra 25 points on vehicle/squad upgrades.

Which makes him overpriced, but not useless.

Thanks melissia

Phazael wrote:Worst HQ-
Space Pope or Autarch would be high in the running

Worst Elite-
Biovore or Death Cult Assasins (both arguably the worst units in the game)

Worst Troop-
Hard one, but gotta go with Storm Guardians or Ripper Swarms

Worst Fast-
I see your hellions and raise you a Vyper and Swooping Hawk sir

Worst Heavy-
So much fail in the eldar heavy support, so lets just say Nightspinner Support Platform and call it a day at that.

Wow...



Autarches-Made of win... +1 to reserves, for 80 points you get a freaking melta gun at BS6...

Vypers-Useless? Care to explain, or should I just beat you to death with this fish? 6 S6 shots a turn from a skimmer is the suck...

Nightspinner-Useless? There is so much fail in that statement I won't even comment.

Stormguardians-Everyone knows three flamers is made of useless...

Why don't you read through the codices, instead of listening to internet babble about units.



x100... I am already on the thin line of spamming them...

Melissia wrote:Which makes him overpriced, but not useless.

Repentia have 2d6 armor pen, they are very useful at opening tanks.

Do you retract that they are useless?

No, because they aren't going to get into melee against a tank when you just put a cheap throwaway unit in front them instead. The ability to actually control the unit makes a huge difference-- it's a matter of skill to use Ahriman properly. It's a mater of the OPPONENT'S skill to "use" Repentia effectively.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:

Phazael wrote:Worst HQ-
Space Pope or Autarch would be high in the running

Worst Elite-
Biovore or Death Cult Assasins (both arguably the worst units in the game)

Worst Troop-
Hard one, but gotta go with Storm Guardians or Ripper Swarms

Worst Fast-
I see your hellions and raise you a Vyper and Swooping Hawk sir

Worst Heavy-
So much fail in the eldar heavy support, so lets just say Nightspinner Support Platform and call it a day at that.

Wow...



Autarches-Made of win... +1 to reserves, for 80 points you get a freaking melta gun at BS6...

Vypers-Useless? Care to explain, or should I just beat you to death with this fish? 6 S6 shots a turn from a skimmer is the suck...

Nightspinner-Useless? There is so much fail in that statement I won't even comment.

Stormguardians-Everyone knows three flamers is made of useless...

Why don't you read through the codices, instead of listening to internet babble about units.



x100... I am already on the thin line of spamming them...

Nice to see that people agree with me !


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:No, because they aren't going to get into melee against a tank when you just put a cheap throwaway unit in front them instead. The ability to actually control the unit makes a huge difference-- it's a matter of skill to use Ahriman properly. It's a mater of the OPPONENT'S skill to "use" Repentia effectively.

That, and seraphims are way better

Melissia wrote:No, because they aren't going to get into melee against a tank when you just put a cheap throwaway unit in front them instead. The ability to actually control the unit makes a huge difference-- it's a matter of skill to use Ahriman properly. It's a mater of the OPPONENT'S skill to "use" Repentia effectively.

there is no "properly" with ahriman, he is strictly a "for fun" character, You said yourself he is overcost.

A skilled player will take the cheaper/better option instead of Ahriman, hell, the Skilled player will take DPs/Lash Sorcerer's anyway so honestly relating skill to use is kinda null. If you are unable to shoot away the "cheap throwaway" unit infront of the tank (with your escort unit) then I think that is a matter of player lack of skill instead of hoping for dumb opponents. Plus, you can control their "run" move in any direction you choose, nothing in the dex says otherwise. Also, holy rage is not a guaranteed.

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:If you are unable to shoot away the "cheap throwaway" unit infront of the tank (with your escort unit)

So basically in order to use this expensive, fragile, and hard to control unit, I have to dedicate another two hundred or so points to it, and even then that's only for it to MAYBE destroy a single tank? Even if you deicate your entire strategy around using Repentia, you're not going to get good results-- hell, you can only ever have one unit anyway so you can't even do that in any game over 1000 points. Sure, IF they get into melee with a vehicle squadron, they can do some damage. But why would the opponent let them get there? They're so easy to wipe out because they can't get in a transport, and they're T3 with no acts of faith and carapace. And even if they, by some miracle, manage to get close enough to do any damage, any dedicated close combat unit that doesn't strike at initiative 1 is going to wipe them out anyway. But even TH/SS termies will give just as much damage as they get if not moreso, and a full squad of them costs less than a full squad of repentia. That's assuming the Marine army is silly enough to let the Repentia get within striking distance of a 400 point unit in the first place.

Also, you don't have to be a skilled player to make a good army list. Nor do you have to have a good army list to be a good player.

*Edited to remove retardedness.

Melissia wrote:

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:If you are unable to shoot away the "cheap throwaway" unit infront of the tank (with your escort unit)

So basically in order to use this expensive, fragile, and hard to control unit, I have to dedicate another two hundred or so points to it, and even then that's only for it to MAYBE destroy a single tank? Even if you deicate your entire strategy around using Repentia, you're not going to get good results-- hell, you can only ever have one unit anyway so you can't even do that in any game over 1000 points. Sure, IF they get into melee with a vehicle squadron, they can do some damage. But why would the opponent let them get there? They're so easy to wipe out because they can't get in a transport, and they're T3 with no acts of faith and carapace. And even if they, by some miracle, manage to get close enough to do any damage, any dedicated close combat unit that doesn't strike at initiative 1 is going to wipe them out anyway. But even TH/SS termies will give just as much damage as they get if not moreso, and a full squad of them costs less than a full squad of repentia. That's assuming the Marine army is silly enough to let the Repentia get within striking distance of a 400 point unit in the first place.

Also, you don't have to be a skilled player to make a good army list. Nor do you have to have a good army list to be a good player.

If you end up making your way to Games Day or the VA open, I would be happy to go against you with a list involving repentia to show you their worth. Granted, they are nothing AMAZING (but then again, if they were they would not be even discussed in the "worst unit" thread) but they can fill a slot. There is no "maybe" about the damage they will do to tanks, even if you only had 4 of them, thats 8 attacks, most likely hitting on 4s, and needing two 4s to glance AV 14, the only thing comparable is Chainfist troops.

Repentia are not that hard to control, they are not tooo fragile (especially with other things out there) and they are not too terrible when used properly.

Hardly comparable to things like Mandrakes (please tell me an instance where these units can be considered "good"), Spawn, Hellions, Pariahs, Pyrovores and things of the like, and are CONSIDERABLY better then Aun'Va and that which he brings to the table.

Pyrovores have a use. Deepstrike them in a spod and flame the enemy. NEVER TAKE A PYROVORE WITHOUT A SPOD!

Forgot about the spods...

Consrpirts, because 5Ld isn't worth it.

Melissia wrote:Forgot about the spods...

But I'm weeding out the compitionso repentia can win!

xxmatt85 wrote:Consrpirts, because 5Ld isn't worth it.

Why rely on that when you can give them Ld10 and Stubborn? Conscripts aren't GREAT mind you, I agree. But they can have synergy with their army.

Klawz wrote:Pyrovores have a use. Deepstrike them in a spod and flame the enemy. NEVER TAKE A PYROVORE WITHOUT A SPOD!

So... you're saying that making a Pyrovore cost 135 points to get a flame template off... is worth it?

I think he is saying their use is filling that extra 135 points all Nid players end up having. If thats the case then I guess Chaos Spawn can drop off the list as well.

Ok im missing something here, its probably obvious but why is "Space Pope" so bad?

vodo40k wrote:Ok im missing something here, its probably obvious but why is "Space Pope" so bad?

See my post on page #2.

Since I'm on a roll here, and Aun'va is so obvious, I propose another Tau HQ: Shadowsun. Costs 175 points, has perhaps second worst CC ability for a HQ in the game (after Aun'va)...but on balance, she has a nice Stealth field to protect her from long-range attacks! So what is she armed with? Why, meltaguns, of course! She does have a useful Command drone, but as long as her Drones are alive, she cannot join other units. So basically...if she's with your gunline, she's 175 points which does nothing until enemy is very close. If you deep strike her, her Stealth field and Command Drone are useless.