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Kid_Kyoto wrote:How about we compromise, now that I know what the space pope does gotta agree he's the worst.

200 points?!?

So let's call him the worst special character and sisters repentia the worst unit.

I can totally agree with that assessment. I dont have a SOB codex handy (my sister inlaw just bought it and plans on playing in the next few months, hurray for my group!) so I dont truly know how crappy the repentas are. But Im telling ya, Space pope is simply garbage, and EASILY the worst HQ AND Special Character in the game. Has to be pretty bad if he takes 2 categories.


How bout we change pace and argue whats the worst unit, in each FOC slot? So worst TROOPS (seems to be repentas?) worst FAST ATTACK, worst ELITE, worst HEAVY SUPPORT? Sorry to thread jack but lets try that one?

Repentia are elite. They're so bad, GW recognized taht they're bad and forbade you from taking any more than 0-1.

Dunno if they're the worst elites unit, but they're down there near the bottom of the pile. What effectively amounts to rage, no transports, ICs can't join them, not faithful (therefor reducing army synergy by taking up a lot of points that could have added to the army's faith point pool), always strikes at initiative 1, one attack each, they're fearless in close combat (which is a BAD thing compared to the Sisters' effective stubborn plus rule), they only have a 4+ save, and for all of this suckage for half as much as a terminator.

As for troops, I'd say grots...

For Fast Attack I'd say spawn...

For Heavy Support... hrm. Most HS choices are actually decent... if I had to pick one, Penitent Engines based on my experience. So expensive, yet so easy to crush.

HQ: Space pope!

Elite: "Let's talk about sisters of battle please!!"

Troops: Seems like each one has a niche...

Fast Attack: Tau Gun Drone Team ((The point of this unit is...? )) Or Hellions...

Heavy Support: Flash Gitz

I don't think Flash Gitz are actually useless. They're still nobz, even if they're nobz equipped for shooting.

They're not GOOD, but they are hardly the most useless one.

Feth all you insecure people, you are just too wimpy to accept you can't have as horrible of a unit as Hellions in your codex.
I'm sorry. Repentia can still rip gak up in combat, given the circumstances. Hellions are flying failboats with S4 and random drugs and OMG A 5+ INVUL OHMGOSH!!!!!
Yeah. And Flash Gitz aren't useless. Anything that can get AP1 is ok in my book.
Space Pope? I thought you meant this guy-http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat30046&prodId=prod1090114
Greetz,
Mr. Self Destruct

Grotz are very useful. They either act as a screen for the boyz (granted, they will die) or hold the fort and sit on the objective all game/

They are the star objective holders of the ork codex.

S_P

HQ: Space Pope

Elite: Pyrovore or Repentia... although I still give this to the Pyrovore. By the way Melissa, you keep saying Repentia are fearless in close combat, which I just don't see. Yes they pass all moral checks, but I see nothing about fearless so you wouldn't get the negatives of losing a CC as a fearless squad.

Troops: Nurglings or Rippers... kind of a toss up

Fast Attack: Either Drones or Helions

Heavy Support: Scourges, hands down.

Actually, Space Pope's main use is probably to force a quick retreat in gunlines. Get pope into assault just before the enemy gets into assault range with your firewarriors, have him keel over, and have your firewarriors get the hell out so they can regroup later. He still sucks ass, but it's a use.

I nominate the Culexus for worst elite. The investment required to make him useful is absurd.

The Culexus at least has some uses against specific builds of specific armies. Off the top of my head: Eldar with Warlocks abound, Tyranids (Tyrant, Tervigon, Broodlord, and Zonethropes), and Tzeentch CSM.

The Pyrovore on the other hand, is a 45 point heavy flamer... 45 points!

Shrike325 wrote:HQ: Space Pope

Elite: Pyrovore or Repentia... although I still give this to the Pyrovore. By the way Melissa, you keep saying Repentia are fearless in close combat, which I just don't see. Yes they pass all moral checks, but I see nothing about fearless so you wouldn't get the negatives of losing a CC as a fearless squad.

Troops: Nurglings or Rippers... kind of a toss up

Fast Attack: Either Drones or Helions

Heavy Support: Scourges, hands down.

I thought they FAQed it. But then the WH FAQ has gotten a few edits reverting things back, so I mgith just be remembering an older FAQ (Holy Hatred is another example). But yeah, you appear to be right.

Actually, you do suffer the negatives. Especially No Retreat.

The NR rule states:
It's not uncommon for units to be immune to Morale checks for losing an assault, or to automatically pass them for some reason (they may have the 'fearless' special rule, be subject to a vow or some other special rule).


So the Repentias being able to always pass morale checks would trigger No Retreat.

Gwar! wrote:Actually, you do suffer the negatives. Especially No Retreat.

The NR rule states:
It's not uncommon for units to be immune to Morale checks for losing an assault, or to automatically pass them for some reason (they may have the 'fearless' special rule, be subject to a vow or some other special rule).


So the Repentias being able to always pass morale checks would trigger No Retreat.

Touché Gwar. I suppose I should have actually looked at the NR rule. I always just assumed it was only for fearless models.

Just a question about no retreat, would that mean Iron Will would cause "No Retreat" wounds? It lets you choose whether to pass or fail, rather than being automatic.

Fafnir wrote:Just a question about no retreat, would that mean Iron Will would cause "No Retreat" wounds? It lets you choose whether to pass or fail, rather than being automatic.

Yes, it does cause no retreat as you are passing it automatically.

Or maybe you are not. It's unclear and a cause of a massive nerdrage argument.

Yes, it does cause no retreat as you are passing it automatically.

Or maybe you are not. It's unclear and a cause of a massive nerdrage argument.

I can see this definitely being a source of nerdrage; personally I find that it's one of the more stupider rulings I've found in INAT [of course, that's just my opinion which counts for exactly that]

You see, it's not automatically passing - it's choosing to pass. I define that differently [compare Fearless, eg.] & would assume that you would still, regardless of Iron Will, need a 2 to pass if you lost combat by 10 wounds. Then, Iron Will would kick in and you would still be able to choose to theoretically roll a ''2'' for that test, hence passing the test...

Whatever, there's so much sillyness in INAT that I'm pretty much resigned to accept it, despite my own opinions...

does that count as nerdrage? I didn't mean for it to be, but after this much imbibing I doubt I have any rational judgment left...

Gwar! wrote:Actually, you do suffer the negatives. Especially No Retreat.

The NR rule states:
It's not uncommon for units to be immune to Morale checks for losing an assault, or to automatically pass them for some reason (they may have the 'fearless' special rule, be subject to a vow or some other special rule).


So the Repentias being able to always pass morale checks would trigger No Retreat.

Huh. Looks like I was right in a roundabout way.

That's what we get for playing with outdated rules...

HQ: Space Pope / Zogwart

Elite: Mandrakes / Pyrovores

Fast Attack: Hellions / Scarab Swarms / CHAOS SPAWN*

Troops: Rippers / Necron Warriors(all things considered) / Nurglings

Heavy Support: Scourges / Purgation Squad / Looted Wagons-Big Gunz (tie there)

Over all:

Weakest Special Character: Space Pope (Decapitator in 2nd)

Weakest Unit: Mandrakes (Chaos Spawn* in 2nd)

Weakest Codex: Necrons (sadly, 2nd place is any/every non-5th edition codex)

*((IF PURCHASED NOT SUMMONED))

Sorry Mel, but in all honesty, the Lady-Gaga Marines really don't have that bad a selection to pick from, if anything, I would say the Retributors are the worst of the dex, as they require 2 Heavy Slots to make them viable (not to mention an ungodly amount of points for a 24inch "ranged" unit)

~DAR

Of Fast Attack choices, how about Vespids? Expensive, fragile, weak shooting, weak in close combat, no options whatsoever.

DAR, both Zogwort and Big gunz certainly are not the worst

Huh. The only use for the space pope invovles a conversion where you take him out of his chair and replace him with Yoda for coolness factor.

Remind me again - why does the Space Pope suck? I remember something about him being good to take... for your opponent!

He's too expensive and his bodyguard unit is two models which strike in close combat only.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:HQ: Space pope!

Elite: "Let's talk about sisters of battle please!!"

Troops: Seems like each one has a niche...

Fast Attack: Tau Gun Drone Team ((The point of this unit is...? )) Or Hellions...

Heavy Support: Flash Gitz

Melissia wrote:I don't think Flash Gitz are actually useless. They're still nobz, even if they're nobz equipped for shooting.

They're not GOOD, but they are hardly the most useless one.

I MIGHT agree with that as for a heavy support. I personally think the Gitz should of been elites, and LOOTAS be heavy. But they certainly dont suck. IVe been using them with varying success in my games. Stick them in a BW, DONT give them the gets hot upgrade, and they can really murders some units. They are certainly made for anti troop, which is a little off in a HEAVY SUPPORT choice, but what ever. Seriously they can hammer out the shots, and have a pretty decent chance to take out a whole tactical squad when the AP rolls are with you

halonachos wrote:What about squigs?

WS-4
BS-0
S-3
T-2
W-1
I-3
A-1
Ld-5
Sv-0

Oh, they also have no special rules.

....eh, they've got WS4.....Iguess

Samus_aran115 wrote:

halonachos wrote:What about squigs?

WS-4
BS-0
S-3
T-2
W-1
I-3
A-1
Ld-5
Sv-0

Oh, they also have no special rules.

....eh, they've got WS4.....Iguess

Beat ya too that joke a few pages back

Ha,ooops. Didn't pay attention.

Space Pope? They both seem equally adequate.....

the_ferrett wrote:DAR, both Zogwort and Big gunz certainly are not the worst

Thats more of "There are not that many bad HQs and Heavy Support options in w40k" as much as "Zoggy and Big gunz suck"

No doubt, they are phenominal compared to other things on the Worst list, but IMO Zogwort is one of the worst HQ choices(while still not one of the worst UNITS) to grace a codex.

It goes like this

Space Pope <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Zogwort << Everything else

Big guns are relatively weak compared to other HS options in 40k (I.E Land Raiders, Hammerheads, Daemon Princes, Defilers, etc)

Vespids would have *possibly* made the cut, but honestly, if we were gonna list all the bad FA choices, we would need a separate thread entirely.

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:

the_ferrett wrote:DAR, both Zogwort and Big gunz certainly are not the worst

Thats more of "There are not that many bad HQs and Heavy Support options in w40k" as much as "Zoggy and Big gunz suck"

No doubt, they are phenominal compared to other things on the Worst list, but IMO Zogwort is one of the worst HQ choices(while still not one of the worst UNITS) to grace a codex.

It goes like this

Space Pope <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Zogwort << Everything else

Big guns are relatively weak compared to other HS options in 40k (I.E Land Raiders, Hammerheads, Daemon Princes, Defilers, etc)

Vespids would have *possibly* made the cut, but honestly, if we were gonna list all the bad FA choices, we would need a separate thread entirely.

Yep.Chaos spawn would have to be a close second behind vespids for me.

Chaos dread. My friends all play chaos and i cant tell you how many times they have blown up his landraiders, flamered his men and just generally screwed them hard.
As for the nids codex, ripperswarms suck pretty bad.