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Necrons? eat him with nightbringer or just have deceiver in front and decline combat lol.

Older codices shouldnt have a hard time getting rid of mcfailston ... if they have power weapons @ higher I (eldar/delder) or any good ap weaponry they can melt meph.

... you realize he'll force weapon the Nightbringer and kill it?

kill dem stunties wrote:Necrons? eat him with nightbringer or just have deceiver in front and decline combat lol.

Older codices shouldnt have a hard time getting rid of mcfailston ... if they have power weapons @ higher I (eldar/delder) or any good ap weaponry they can melt meph.

Eldar and Dark Eldar have lower, if not the same Initiative as Mephiston. Definitely lower if there is a Sainguinary Priest anywhere. And, even with Doom, Toughness 6 can be hard to crack.

Banshees would be the best bet, with Doom. They'd go first, need 4's to hit and then need 6's to wound with rerolls. Not impossible, but what is more difficult is catching Mephiston for an assault with a unit slower than he is.

Yes, and the fact that banshees are next to useless otherwise.

Banshees were the eldar iw as speaking of, and with executioner exarch wounding on 4s its a bit better.

However for eldar i would just put 1-2 wounds on him long range them bring up the firedragons to turn him to ash.

For de i was speaking of the hq unit, hes i7 or 8 i thought, but again, why wouldnt you just shoot some of the 20+ dark lances in your army at him?

kill dem stunties wrote:Banshees were the eldar iw as speaking of, and with executioner exarch wounding on 4s its a bit better.

However for eldar i would just put 1-2 wounds on him long range them bring up the firedragons to turn him to ash.

For de i was speaking of the hq unit, hes i7 or 8 i thought, but again, why wouldnt you just shoot some of the 20+ dark lances in your army at him?

Because he's not the only model on the field for the BA?

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:

what are you gonna do? Countercharge him? With what? Or let him finish the brood and go eat the MC anyway?

You throw The Swarmlord at him and force him to fail a LD test on 3D6, he then dies.
Throw death leaper into it and some other nasties and you drop his LD by 3 to start with.

2 things:
1) The Swarmlord's Bone Sabres don't trigger a LD test; they just inflict instant death.
2) The Deathleaper can't effect him; he's not a character.

Alpharius wrote:Close Combat really lost a lot of its impact and 'oomph' in 5th edition.

He's not the beast he once was...

I disagree. You lost the ability to consolidate into another assault, but you gained cover saves and everyone got a "run" move.

Good players didn't keep their units close enough to be consolidated into....5th edition was quite a bump for close combat.

Janthkin wrote:
2) The Deathleaper can't effect him; he's not a character.

So you can field more than one of him?

kirsanth wrote:

Janthkin wrote:
2) The Deathleaper can't effect him; he's not a character.

So you can field more than one of him?

Logic flaw - while Special Characters are Unique, there is no requirement that all Unique units be Special Characters. Contrast with the wording for Special Characters, which can be either independent or upgrade characters, an explicit set of options.

Could it be phrased better? Sure; it's fairly obvious that GW didn't consider non-character Unique options when writing the main rules. But a "break no rule" interpretation strongly favors a non-Character perspective.

Look up Unique in the main rules.

Oddly enough you are actually forced to reference "Unique Characters".

kirsanth wrote:Look up Unique in the main rules.

Oddly enough you are actually forced to reference "Unique Characters".

I'm aware. Doesn't change my stance, nor my argument. "Special Characters" must be either independent or upgrade; Mephiston, The Swarmlord, The Masque, etc. are not. So we're left with having to interpret statements like "Composition: 1 (Unique)" without an explicit rule. Fortunately, "Unique" is fairly easy to interpret in the GW context (as, for that matter, is the number "1").

There are reasons I never use Deathleaper; this is one of them.

Janthkin wrote:
Logic flaw - while Special Characters can be Unique, there is a requirement that all Unique units be Characters. See the wording for Special Characters, which can be either independent or upgrade characters, a set of options applied to characters.

Could it be phrased better? Sure; it's fairly obvious that GW didn't consider non-character Unique options when writing the main rules. But a "break no rule" interpretation strongly favors a Character perspective.

fixed.



In a snarky way, admittedly.

The problem is saying that his rule requires "Special", "Independent", or "Upgrade" characters, when "Character" is the only requirement--"Unique Character" is a rule as well. The _only_ rule preventing putting multiple models of Mephiston on the table is the same rule that allows DL to target him.

Editing to add that the FAQs (for example) refer to "Special Characters" when referencing unique models as well.

Sorry, habitual kneejerk.

Back to the thread at hand.

Nothing to see here.

The blood angels faq classified Mephiston, Sangiunor and death company Tycho as single units of one model.....

Radi87 wrote:The blood angels faq classified Mephiston, Sangiunor and death company Tycho as single units of one model.....

Sure, which changes nothing--the question in that FAQ was if they are ICs--they are not, and I am not saying they are.

kirsanth wrote:

Janthkin wrote:
Logic flaw - while Special Characters can be Unique, there is a requirement that all Unique units be Characters. See the wording for Special Characters, which can be either independent or upgrade characters, a set of options applied to characters.

Could it be phrased better? Sure; it's fairly obvious that GW didn't consider non-character Unique options when writing the main rules. But a "break no rule" interpretation strongly favors a Character perspective.

fixed.



In a snarky way, admittedly.

"Can" doesn't help you here - that's "can" as in "You can get the car in either black or red," not "I can get a red car." The wording is unambiguously setting up an either/or choice - there are no additional options to choose from.

But yes, we're wandering off topic. My Tyranids have faced Mephiston 3 times - the first time, he charged 15 poisoned 'stealers (with an assault squad along for company), lost the assault squad almost before they could swing, and eventually died to rending. The other two times, he ended up having to fight the Swarmlord, and died for it.

ive had good luck fielding mephiston with my raz spam list
at the start of the game and first 1 or 2 turns I hide him behind my vehicles and when im in charge range he pops out into combat, hes a glass cannon (albeit somewhat tough) you have to protect him till hes in range

kill dem stunties wrote:Necrons? eat him with nightbringer or just have deceiver in front and decline combat lol.

Older codices shouldnt have a hard time getting rid of mcfailston ... if they have power weapons @ higher I (eldar/delder) or any good ap weaponry they can melt meph.

I lol'd at the nightbringer and deceiver idea. Meph hits first, puts one wound on the nightbringer, and instakills him. Also the nightbringer cant escape from meph, so thats an easy kill for the BA player. With the deceiver its a bit better, as the necron player can escape from combate by moving away with the deceiver from combat, but if he stays to fight meph can easily eat him too. Mephiston basically rapes Necrons, as they have no way to reliably deal with him. When I play my friend's necrons with my BA, meph regularly destroys his monolith and 15-25 warriors during the game, shame that he's never killed the deceiver though because he runs away from combat. lol.

Best way with DA is to first turn charge with a lord with shadowfield and combat drugs and trophy rack. As meph isn't fearless, you just have to put one wound on him and win the combat (as you have a 2+ invul he shouldn't wound you, if he does youre dead though) then meph will have to take a LD on -1 from trophy rack, and hopefully run off the board.

Jabbdo wrote:

kill dem stunties wrote:Necrons? eat him with nightbringer or just have deceiver in front and decline combat lol.

Older codices shouldnt have a hard time getting rid of mcfailston ... if they have power weapons @ higher I (eldar/delder) or any good ap weaponry they can melt meph.

I lol'd at the nightbringer and deceiver idea. Meph hits first, puts one wound on the nightbringer, and instakills him. Also the nightbringer cant escape from meph, so thats an easy kill for the BA player. With the deceiver its a bit better, as the necron player can escape from combate by moving away with the deceiver from combat, but if he stays to fight meph can easily eat him too. Mephiston basically rapes Necrons, as they have no way to reliably deal with him. When I play my friend's necrons with my BA, meph regularly destroys his monolith and 15-25 warriors during the game, shame that he's never killed the deceiver though because he runs away from combat. lol.

Best way with DA is to first turn charge with a lord with shadowfield and combat drugs and trophy rack. As meph isn't fearless, you just have to put one wound on him and win the combat (as you have a 2+ invul he shouldn't wound you, if he does youre dead though) then meph will have to take a LD on -1 from trophy rack, and hopefully run off the board.

Twenty Daemonettes v.s. Mephi = dead Mephi

Heck, even ten could probably do it.

Che-Vito wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:

kill dem stunties wrote:Necrons? eat him with nightbringer or just have deceiver in front and decline combat lol.

Older codices shouldnt have a hard time getting rid of mcfailston ... if they have power weapons @ higher I (eldar/delder) or any good ap weaponry they can melt meph.

I lol'd at the nightbringer and deceiver idea. Meph hits first, puts one wound on the nightbringer, and instakills him. Also the nightbringer cant escape from meph, so thats an easy kill for the BA player. With the deceiver its a bit better, as the necron player can escape from combate by moving away with the deceiver from combat, but if he stays to fight meph can easily eat him too. Mephiston basically rapes Necrons, as they have no way to reliably deal with him. When I play my friend's necrons with my BA, meph regularly destroys his monolith and 15-25 warriors during the game, shame that he's never killed the deceiver though because he runs away from combat. lol.

Best way with DA is to first turn charge with a lord with shadowfield and combat drugs and trophy rack. As meph isn't fearless, you just have to put one wound on him and win the combat (as you have a 2+ invul he shouldn't wound you, if he does youre dead though) then meph will have to take a LD on -1 from trophy rack, and hopefully run off the board.

Twenty Daemonettes v.s. Mephi = dead Mephi

Heck, even ten could probably do it.

Yeah, too bad that Daemonettes can't attack after deep-striking, Daemons lack the Psy-Defence to prevent Mephi from just jumping away from said squad with his jump pack power and fleet (scattering away from him makes things even worse) and Daemonettes in general lack the survivability against any kind of anti-infantry fire.

Well, necrons yes are screwed my meph, to almost a funny level, but necrons were never tourney level anyway. Dont anyone disagree or I will be forced to challenge you to a duel.

Instant death is the best way to kill meph. I believe eldar have some sort of blade that causes instant death on a 6 that banshees can carry. Wraithguard can splatter him but without a transport its inviable.

The most viable way for necrons to kill meph is using heavy destroyers, which isnt by any means a rediculous idea. If necrons were fearless, then there would be little reason to field meph against necrons.

Necrons are screwed anyway.

Mephiston's stats say eventually 'go against the biggest threat'.
But his protection (no inv. save and psychic counter via hood) is rather weak against hard hitting units.
He is best used by a mech force kept behind the armored wall
until its close enough.
Then unleash him, but pick his target with care to get the most out of him.
Don't bother if he dies. The enemy will be scared as long as he's alive.

wuestenfux wrote:Necrons are screwed anyway.

Mephiston's stats say eventually 'go against the biggest threat'.
But his protection (no inv. save and psychic counter via hood) is rather weak against hard hitting units.
He is best used by a mech force kept behind the armored wall
until its close enough.
Then unleash him, but pick his target with care to get the most out of him.
Don't bother if he dies. The enemy will be scared as long as he's alive.

That is exactly how I play him, conservatively, and ever present to countercharge anyone who gets near my tanks. Great points.