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I like the Helios. Changing the Heavy Bolter for a Whirlwind launcher is worth the decreased transport cap.

what are the other forge world variants?
I cant afford their books :(

AbaddonFidelis wrote:what are the other forge world variants?
I cant afford their books :(

Helios, which has 2 TL Lascannons and a Whirlwind Launcher, and the Prometheus, which has 4 TL Heavy Bolters and grants bonuses to Reserves.

Helios trades the HB for the whirlwind missile launcher and can only hold 6 guys.

Terminus Ultra has 2 TL-LC and 3 normal LC( or was that the other way around?)

Ares has a built in demo cannon

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:Helios trades the HB for the whirlwind missile launcher and can only hold 6 guys.

Terminus Ultra has 2 TL-LC and 3 normal LC( or was that the other way around?)

Ares has a built in demo cannon

Terminus Ultra has 3 TL Las and 2 normal Las

Ares has TL Heavy Flamer sponsons and a Demolisher Cannon.

Droooool

I may need try picking up more FW things

Wow, I didn't expect the ton of useful and helpful comments and suggestions. Thanks so much guys. To answer an earlier question I was thinking of ferrying in a close combat squad of Terminators with the LR. I wanted to have the LR give as much punch as possible, not so much to help out in the assault for the Terminators because I figure with the one two punch of these CC monsters and an Ironclad drop podding in to help out that they wouldn't need the flame storm cannons as much and that the Las would be more useful to pop off shots as of turn one on the approach. Again though having not actually played this approach I don't know how useful that would be in a real game situation. On a modeling note I do find the Lasa cannon version a much better looking model.

well.... I would advise not to glue anything into place. If you want to experiment buy the phobos kit and then buy the redeemer/crusader upgrade sprue, its like 10 dollars. Then you can just see which one you like best. I think you'll be disappointed by the performance of the lascannons but by all means see for yourself which you like best....

Abbadon is probably trying to say that you are going to be very happy with your new Phobos Land Raider and its wonderous Godhammer Pattern Lascannons, and that it would certainly be helpful against any opponents of yours.

right. thats what I meant to say. If by "very happy" you mean "miserably disappointed" and by "helpful against opponents" you mean "next to worthless."
AF

Godhammer raiders are underrated. The possibility to destroy 2 transports per turn is good, but the range is what shines here. You can comfortably sit 40" away and blast away happily without having to suscept yourself to horrible melta-inflicted death, which tends to be the weakness of the other 2 variants.

Yeah, I agree jabbdo. But that's really it. Lascannons are near worthless against blobs.

I love the debate about the classic design having range and the others needing to get in close to do their work.

Doh! That is the whole point of having different designs!

The classic is a sniper. The other two variants are for more up close work. The decision is basically determined by one thing: what are you doing with the guys inside? Counterattack unit or scoring unit inside, then take the classic. In your face assault delivery system, then take one of the two variants.

And don't forget that all can take a Multi-melta so if you have Vulkan lurking around you may just be moving 12" and firing that weapon anyway.

Apart from the fact that the OP wants a transport, not a gunboat, godhammers are still dumb.

Jabbdo wrote:Godhammer raiders are underrated. The possibility to destroy 2 transports per turn is good, but the range is what shines here.

You're going to spend HOW many points in order to blow up HOW few points of transports to temporarily inconvenience the passengers who now move up to 12" instead of exactly 12"?

... well, hope you don't ever let the vehicle get shaken. Because you have so much control over that...

Ailaros wrote:Apart from the fact that the OP wants a transport, not a gunboat, godhammers are still dumb.

Jabbdo wrote:Godhammer raiders are underrated. The possibility to destroy 2 transports per turn is good, but the range is what shines here.

You're going to spend HOW many points in order to blow up HOW few points of transports to temporarily inconvenience the passengers who now move up to 12" instead of exactly 12"?

... well, hope you don't ever let the vehicle get shaken. Because you have so much control over that...

POTMS helps that a bit.

And as he said, you can put a Multi-Melta on top so it's still got a little something for everyone whether you're moving forward or shooting from afar.

Also, comparing points to points is misleading. If you can wreck or immobilize a few Chimeras in an objective based game it could make all the difference in the world, and you can't put a point cost on something like that.

Monster Rain wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Apart from the fact that the OP wants a transport, not a gunboat, godhammers are still dumb.

Jabbdo wrote:Godhammer raiders are underrated. The possibility to destroy 2 transports per turn is good, but the range is what shines here.

You're going to spend HOW many points in order to blow up HOW few points of transports to temporarily inconvenience the passengers who now move up to 12" instead of exactly 12"?

... well, hope you don't ever let the vehicle get shaken. Because you have so much control over that...

POTMS helps that a bit.

And as he said, you can put a Multi-Melta on top so it's still got a little something for everyone whether you're moving forward or shooting from afar.

Also, comparing points to points is misleading. If you can wreck or immobilize a few Chimeras in an objective based game it could make all the difference in the world, and you can't put a point cost on something like that.

What? Comparing points to points is misleading? 250 points for a AV 14 wall that'll kill some useless rhinos?

Lets say you blow up two rhinos in a game and score a bunch of shakens and stunned. Your paying 250 points to kill less than a hundred points. Oh, you have an AV 14 wall that just gets in the way of LOS of your own models? Wonderful.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Apart from the fact that the OP wants a transport, not a gunboat, godhammers are still dumb.

Jabbdo wrote:Godhammer raiders are underrated. The possibility to destroy 2 transports per turn is good, but the range is what shines here.

You're going to spend HOW many points in order to blow up HOW few points of transports to temporarily inconvenience the passengers who now move up to 12" instead of exactly 12"?

... well, hope you don't ever let the vehicle get shaken. Because you have so much control over that...

POTMS helps that a bit.

And as he said, you can put a Multi-Melta on top so it's still got a little something for everyone whether you're moving forward or shooting from afar.

Also, comparing points to points is misleading. If you can wreck or immobilize a few Chimeras in an objective based game it could make all the difference in the world, and you can't put a point cost on something like that.

What? Comparing points to points is misleading? 250 points for a AV 14 wall that'll kill some useless rhinos?

Lets say you blow up two rhinos in a game and score a bunch of shakens and stunned. Your paying 250 points to kill less than a hundred points. Oh, you have an AV 14 wall that just gets in the way of LOS of your own models? Wonderful.

Okay, I explained why that can be good. If you disable your opponent's mobility and it wins you the game, how many points is that worth?

Also, it's not all that you'd be doing but it's nice to have the option. The Phobos Pattern is the thinking man's Land Raider.

Monster Rain wrote:Also, comparing points to points is misleading. If you can wreck or immobilize a few Chimeras in an objective based game it could make all the difference in the world, and you can't put a point cost on something like that.

Actually, you sort of can. The problem with a godhammer is an opportunity cost that can easily be demonstrated in an arms race scenario.

Let's say that a single raider takes out 2 chimeras before it's too late and they horribly melta the vehicle. The problem is that the raider costs more than the mechvet chimeras that you're actually killing (remember, there's still the squad inside who is only somewhat slowed by losing its transport). This means that I can take more mechvets than you're taking godhammers. Thus, you have a certain number of mechvets that are allowed to survive because you took the godhammer to deal with them. Every single godhammer you take allows me to take more mechvets, which mean that even MORE of them survive than before (or than if you had taken something else). As such, every godhammer you put down gives your opponent an advantage.

This advantage is something that is easy to put a point cost to, and it can make even more of the difference in the world every game, rather than compared to the above example, which will only sometime occur.

Ailaros wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Also, comparing points to points is misleading. If you can wreck or immobilize a few Chimeras in an objective based game it could make all the difference in the world, and you can't put a point cost on something like that.

Actually, you sort of can. The problem with a godhammer is an opportunity cost that can easily be demonstrated in an arms race scenario.

Let's say that a single raider takes out 2 chimeras before it's too late and they horribly melta the vehicle. The problem is that the raider costs more than the mechvet chimeras that you're actually killing (remember, there's still the squad inside who is only somewhat slowed by losing its transport). This means that I can take more mechvets than you're taking godhammers. Thus, you have a certain number of mechvets that are allowed to survive because you took the godhammer to deal with them. Every single godhammer you take allows me to take more mechvets, which mean that even MORE of them survive than before (or than if you had taken something else). As such, every godhammer you put down gives your opponent an advantage.

This advantage is something that is easy to put a point cost to, and it can make even more of the difference in the world every game, rather than compared to the above example, which will only sometime occur.

Is this where we start talking about nothing but Math Hammer and the thread just becomes silly?

I'm talking about these things in an All-Comers List context here, not the merits of Phobos Land Raiders against armies mathematically tailored to kill it without thought being given to terrain and tactics.

it doesn't need to devolve into a fight over mathhammer, as the mathhammer here is pretty obvious: godhammers are expensive for what they do.

Deciding to put it into an "all comers" list doesn't change this.

Ailaros wrote:it doesn't need to devolve into a fight over mathhammer, as the mathhammer here is pretty obvious: godhammers are expensive for what they do.

Deciding to put it into an "all comers" list doesn't change this.

And what is it that they do or don't do that you find so objectionably over priced?

Comparing points costs of units compared to what they've killed is flawed, and that type of thinking wont win you any games. The problem I have with the other variants apart from Godhammer is that they have to get so close that they expose themselves to meltafire, and will inevitably die.

Jabbdo wrote:Comparing points costs of units compared to what they've killed is flawed, and that type of thinking wont win you any games.

That is exactly my point.

Here's a slightly off topic one - at a cost of... approx 265 points, what would you put on your landraider if you had:

-2 Sponsons
-1 Front weapon
-2 pintle mounted weapons

Imperial/CSM guns only!

liam0404 wrote:Here's a slightly off topic one - at a cost of... approx 265 points, what would you put on your landraider if you had:

-2 Sponsons
-1 Front weapon
-2 pintle mounted weapons

Imperial/CSM guns only!

That would be my Apocalypse Datasheet.

2 Sponson Mounted Thunderfire Cannons, one front mounted Twin-Linked Thunderfire Cannon... and a Multimelta.

Thanks people. You just delayed the next non-space marine codex by 3 months and managed to kill 3 kittens on this one page by incorrectly calling Phobos Land Raiders by the pattern of lascannons they have.

Anyways, on the topic of putting things on a land raider - 2 Sponson Mounted Assault Cannons (twin linked), one Front Mounted Demolisher Cannon, and 2 Pintle-mounted Multi-Meltas. Tanks would be vapourized.

I have a crusader in my army and have also heard from others that it is very good to use

liam0404 wrote:Here's a slightly off topic one - at a cost of... approx 265 points, what would you put on your landraider if you had:

-2 Sponsons
-1 Front weapon
-2 pintle mounted weapons

Imperial/CSM guns only!

Sponsons are TL executioner plasma cannons

front is TL Rocket Pod

2 Missile Launchers for pintles

Actually, Typhoon Missile Launchers all over a Land Raider would be a lot of fun too.

2 TL- Battlecannons
1 front- mounted demo cannon
and two MM