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burad wrote:I won't play with an unpainted model. My buddies do, otherwise we couldn't have very large games. But they are good about WYSIWYG and don't play stuff for something it isn't. And they are painting their armies, it's just taking a while.

that would work for me - I just hate going to the Shop and seeing someone who has been playing for more than a year and still doesn't have a single squad that is painted or primed. Not a fan of that and won't play them.

yeah i've been wondering but what is the three colour rule as i use way more than three colours

Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:yeah i've been wondering but what is the three colour rule as i use way more than three colours

A guideline some events have used is that each model must have three distinct paint colors on it. This would knock out the guy who primes his army, but even basic detailing can get it up to three colors for just about any model:

Prime in a base color.
Paint eyes another color.
Add a basic black wash to bring out details.

That's extremely easy, and sets the bar very low. Literally, a player with physical challenges can do this and be able to compete in events without any complaints and this looks perfectly fine, especially at 20 feet, even if the models aren't the showpieces a lot of dedicated hobbyists can produce.

(Hopefully it's clear that I meant "physical challenges" in a very real way, not as an insult. And, to be honest, a lot of my painting is probably closer to that end of the scale than it is the dedicated hobbyist. :( )

I think my old Tyranids exceeded this, despite being partially an excuse to try 'quick painting' and being pretty poorly done by modern standards:

Primed in Bleached Bone (or primed white and base color of Bleached Bone)
Dark Blue on the Carapacey bits
Red eyes
Greenish wash on everything.
White detailing on teeth.
'Mud' brown base.

I really do think my painting has improved since then.

I've rethought my stance.

I will no longer play with anyone whose mandollies aren't painted to a competition standard (Golden Demon, etc.).

It just ruins the aesthetics of the game and makes it no fun.

Eric

I have no issues with unpainted models. I do have an issue with flying bases or plastic cups used as proxies.

If I said "no", there is no way I'd play anything over 300 pt. games >.<

I don't have issues with unpainted models, and I hope nobody would mind my completely unpainted armies.


For the three color rule, could you just paint three different colored lines on your base?

The Bringer wrote:For the three color rule, could you just paint three different colored lines on your base?

Genius .

The Bringer wrote:If I said "no", there is no way I'd play anything over 300 pt. games >.<

I don't have issues with unpainted models, and I hope nobody would mind my completely unpainted armies.


For the three color rule, could you just paint three different colored lines on your base?

Not sure... I think it had to be 'completely covered' so you could prime'em and add a few colored lines, though. Some said no primer, but if you're painting black anyway, who cares?

I figure with enough rules it's easier to at least try to paint if you gain even the slightest satisfaction from doing so.

A minor pet peeve of mine is people who won't paint because "they can't do it well enough." Painting is a skill you learn by doing. You won't improve by looking at other paint jobs! Sure, my old paint jobs look like crap, but my new ones: they look like less crap! I've improved!

Not, mind you, that I have anything against people who jsut don't enjoy painting, but it is part of the hobby, and it does make the game mroe fun for me if the opponent has a painted force.

Painted models are fine. It's the same with my FLGS, i once participated in a 5000pt tyranid vs imperium battle (nothing organised, and yes there were many nid players there that day) and my 1250pts worth of tyranids were the only nids painted!

I prefer painted models and generally field them exclusively. Some leeway is given to my WIP projects, but even so it is rare.
Given two opponents that I know nothing about other than one has an entirely painted army and the other does not, I would choose to play the one with the painted army 100% of the time.

Caveat: I hate painting and am not good at it.

I do what I can to make certain models painted before they are included in lists. I recently played a game with some unpainted gargoyles and hormagaunts because I ran out of biomorphs. It annoyed me, but I played them, because I had discussed this list with my opponent a number of times prior to our match. 2 people commented on my unpainted models. It made me sad. heh

In an ideal world every one can paint to the level of the Heavy'Metal team.

I wont field any thing that isn't painted, all of my IG are painted and thats close to 3000pts. Granted they arn't the best painted models where I am but I have invested the time and love to do so (some of the bases have to be finished in the same colours ).

It does erk me some what when I'm faced by a wall of bare plastic, but, its not my army so "meh". As for badly painted...I can see that at lest they have tried and spent some time on their force, given them a soul.

And as every one knows, the Dice gods favour the better painted army

In an ideal world, we wouldn't have to have painted armies for tournaments.

Here is my opinion on the painting issue and it is just that, my opinion. Everyone seems to enjoy playing with and against painted armies, that being said there is no other reason that I can see to enforce a painting rule.
A painting rule has many negative repercussions.
1) The models come unassembled. It takes many hours to assemble even 1000 points worth of models. Now you're forcing those players to spend even more time painting them before they can even try out their investment.
2) Why would someone buy stuff for retail price plus sales tax from a store that they're not allowed to play at when they can buy it for 20% off online.
3) Some people can't paint or just don't like to. Those people will buy a painted army on ebay and the store loses that business. That person might also put three dots on the model that follows the letter of the rule but certainly not the spirit.
4) As previously mentioned, some people don't enjoy painting. You may say: But it's part of the hobby! So are the Black Library novels and fluff but it isn't mandatory to read all of the novels and stories written about your army before you play them. This is one point that is often glossed over and it shouldn't be. Painting is only one aspect of the hobby.
5) Even people that like to paint may not have a lot of time. I have a large painted Salamanders army. My Space Wolves on the other hand are only about 15% painted after over a year. What that doesn't take into account is that all of my Space Wolves are very individualistic and the army contains a lot of conversions. Each model is designed to look as different from his pack mates as possible. Also, I've converted and built 12 Thunderwolf Cavalry models along with assembling and painting a Space Wolves Thunderhawk. That's a lot of work for 18 months right? Sure is. But I still can't play the army at a store that has a painting requirement. I've put a lot of time into these models and don't want to just slap 3 colors on them either. I work full time, have a family, and am pursuing a Master's Degree in addition to my Warhammer time.

eeeerm well Magikalmemories that is waaaaaay harsh because not everyone can paint to Golden Demon standards i found it hard to paint to my rubbish standards. so saying that you'd never play anything cause it would take forever to paint and you would be scared to play with them. ????

Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:eeeerm well Magikalmemories that is waaaaaay harsh because not everyone can paint to Golden Demon standards i found it hard to paint to my rubbish standards. so saying that you'd never play anything cause it would take forever to paint and you would be scared to play with them. ????

Sarcasm is an odorless, tasteless gas...

Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:eeeerm well Magikalmemories that is waaaaaay harsh because not everyone can paint to Golden Demon standards i found it hard to paint to my rubbish standards. so saying that you'd never play anything cause it would take forever to paint and you would be scared to play with them. ????

>: )

And, thus, we reach the point of my comment.

Why is it okay to insist that your opponent have painted models, but not okay to insist on a certain quality level?
Why is is "waaaaaay harsh" to say one, but not the other?

Those who've used the 'You'll become a better painter with practice" statement as a defense/offense of their opinion can easily ascribe that same statement to "Golden Demon" quality. With enough practice, you'll get there.

It's no less a big load of crap to insist that your opponent paint his models - to dictate what he does with his own property- than it is to insist that he paint them all to display standards. They're toys, for God's sake.
If the guy doesn't want to paint them, regardless of reason, then people need to get off of their high horses and accept it. Not everyone wants to paint their mandollies.
Don't want to play him? Don't. But, to sit around acting like your better than him -like he doesn't deserve to play on the same game board as you (collectively - Not you specifically)- is ridiculous.


Eric


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CT GAMER wrote:Sarcasm is an odorless, tasteless gas...

Reading that, and considering my avatar, I couldn't help but *actually* LOL. : )


Eric

Hey i didn't say that i dont allow unpainted models im totaly against that as most of mine is unpainted


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im just against a "standard" because that reminds me of Hitler

That's why I stressed that the "you" was collective, meaning anyone who had that personal rule, rather than you specifically.

Eric

Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:Hey i didn't say that i dont allow unpainted models im totaly against that as most of mine is unpainted


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im just against a "standard" because that reminds me of Hitler

Alright, invoking Godwin's Law in 3...2...1...

Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:
Im just against a "standard" because that reminds me of Hitler

Bild des Menschen!

Perhaps instead of "Papers please!" it should be "Painjobs please!"

I like MagickalMemories' idea. The paintjob needs to be so lifelike, I'm actually afraid the tyranids might be real and will attack me from their little plastic bases. I take it one step further though. Typically I find the game appalling unless they provide me at least a 5000 word story about their army fluff along with a well conceived explanation as to why they'd be fighting me. It just completely destroys my immersion otherwise.

I don't mind playing against unpainted models. Naturally, I prefer to face off against a fully painted one. I do, however, hate to field my own unpainted models. Sadly, I'm such a slow painter that if I ever rigidly held myself to a "only painted models" rule, I'd never actually get to play.

When we plat Apoc. games,We use unpainted marine Vehicles for chaos.

To combat the risk of being taken serious above: I am not.

My friends helped me build my table; I'm not about to tell them they can't play on it. To paraphrase something another user said along time ago; is your imagination really so small you need the other person's little plastic army men painted up all nice?

Regardless of the kool-aid GW hands out, at the end of the day, this is game. You don't see football teams prohibiting others from playing on their fields due to not having enough colors on their uniforms, after all.

I love and appreciate the hobby but do not have the skills and patience to paint models. Hence my main painted army is Golden Necrons. I know all rules and my codexes off by heart, so should I be allowed?

BTW, all models are at least sprayed.

Personally I don't care if models are unpainted. As long as I can play the game then I'm not fussed. For myself however, I paint before I put the models together so all my playable models are painted regardless.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Misguidance wrote:I remember when GW didn't allow unpainted armies. There were a lot of angry 8 year olds, complaining that their base-sprayed SM chapters aught to be allowed...

That would be why they changed the policy. It's all part of the way they target kids as a major source of profit. If you tell kids they can't use their toys until they've gone away and spent some time on them they probably won't bother or will buy stuff at an incredibly slow rate because of small attention spans and a need for instant gratification, especially in the age of computer games, many kids won't even pick up a damn book. GW staff want to say "Get this, this and THIS and you can use them all RIGHT NOW!!" because that's how you sell stuff.



Personally I only want painted miniatures on the table. I don't believe it's a big ask, especially for skirmish games and small armies. Hoard armies are more work but that's the decision of the person collecting them. If you are clearly in the middle of painting up an army the I'll cut you some slack but the reality is that many people in the habit of fielding unpainted armies and have very little intention of making progress between games. I'm not keen on playing a game that looks rubbish. I've heard all the excuses but we all have lives, jobs and families. Actually painting your army has always been part of the hobby for as long as the hobby has existed and I don't see a reason to change that now. If my stance on this has hardened in years it's because I see the fielding of unpainted models becoming more widespread.

Fielding unpainted miniatures is poor etiquette. It might sound harsh but I don't hold anyone to standards that I don't maintain myself.

So why should your standards become mine? It doesn't sound harsh it sounds ignorant. For me, having all my minis painted is asking alot considering all the things i do outside of gaming, like paying the mortgage, fitness, friends outside the hobby etc etc. I try to put in a couple hours each week painting but sometimes it doesn't happen. Painting is part of the hobby yes but the rate at which someone paints shouldn't be an issue. Personally i don't care if both armies are painted, considering i used to play at a store where 12 year kids were using calculators as rhinos i can deal with unpainted minis. Would i love to field a fully painted army, sure and in my younger years i could, now i have 2 40k armies and both are WIPs so it will be a long time before that happens.

Poor etiquette eh?

Howabout all the money, loads of money, we put into the hobby?

Howabout the great amount of time it takes to actually assemble everything you have?

Asking one more thing out of a person is ridiculous at that rate. I would let people proxy so that they could play a game. Demanding a painted army is not something I would consider fair given the circumstances.

daedalus wrote:

Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:
Im just against a "standard" because that reminds me of Hitler

Bild des Menschen!

Perhaps instead of "Papers please!" it should be "Painjobs please!"

I like MagickalMemories' idea. The paintjob needs to be so lifelike, I'm actually afraid the tyranids might be real and will attack me from their little plastic bases. I take it one step further though. Typically I find the game appalling unless they provide me at least a 5000 word story about their army fluff along with a well conceived explanation as to why they'd be fighting me. It just completely destroys my immersion otherwise.

Don't forget the detailed history, life and times of their general and command staff

Forgotmytea wrote:
Don't forget the detailed history, life and times of their general and command staff

This is true. In fact, if they're an IG player, they need to have the wartime propaganda newspaper already printed up and ready to be distributed showing that they won the battle regardless of real outcome. They should also be in uniform themselves.

daedalus wrote:

Forgotmytea wrote:
Don't forget the detailed history, life and times of their general and command staff

This is true. In fact, if they're an IG player, they need to have the wartime propaganda newspaper already printed up and ready to be distributed showing that they won the battle regardless of real outcome. They should also be in uniform themselves.

+1, looks like i have to start typing