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Balance wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:If your gonna demand painted armies you better have a lavish table with themed and matched terrain properly and fully painted and based, etc.

Like this?

Anyone can pull a pic or two off the interwebz, but that proves nothing as the vast majrity of people do not have tables like that and do not put anywhere nere as much attention into terrain/tables as they demand for models, and i see people all the time playing painted armies on tables that are awful.

Go browse through even the tourney coverage threads on just this site alone and you will see plenty of painted armies (Many of the events depicted require them) playing on god-awful tables.


Yes that tablle you pictured is nice, and certainly above average, but if one wanted to take the attitude of the paint snobs it could be said that it is rather monotone and undetailed and certainly rather unrealistic considering that it depicts ruined urban structures yet the ground is completely clean and depicts no rubble.

Scott-S6 can probably help you get some of that terrain if you need it.. The roads come in normal condition, but you can dirty thm up and destroy them however you like.

I'm fully aware he was pimping the product in his sig...

I don't need terrain. In fact I have a rather large collection, multiple themed sets and six gaming tables in my game room. That wasn't the point.

I personally like to field painted forces when I can, and I enjoy qulity terrain that is themed and a matched set, etc..

That being said I don't force my desire on others, and certainly no in a TFG way.

The point I was making is I have seen many people that are hard core paint snobs in threads like this and in person that then put there painted armie on crap tables with mismatched and worn out terrain which seems rather odd to me given that they make such a fuss about the visual aspects of the hobby...

I also see lots of events that require painted forces but the tables and terrain they provide look like absolute crap.

It always strikes me as rather ironic and amusing...

Perkustin wrote:I'm sorry but unpainted plastic is NEVER better than a bad paintjob. That's possibly the worst attitude to take, Is this thread about 'well painted miniatures'? No, it's about painted miniatures (and by painted i infer from the context that it means beyond primer). I know it's verging on patronising but the least you can do is appreciate (and encourage) the time and effort someone has put into painting their miniatures. On a side note it seems at the rate i am painting my current force i will have unpainted units for a while to come! :-(

You obviously havent seem some of the absolute hideous paint jobs out there then,

Allow? Who am I to allow anything?

They payed for the models, and the store owner payed for the tables.

well if i did'nt id be screwed

CT GAMER wrote:I'm fully aware he was pimping the product in his sig...

I don't need terrain. In fact I have a rather large collection, multiple themed sets and six gaming tables in my game room. That wasn't the point.

The point I was making is I have seen many people that are hard core paint snobs in threads like this and in person that then put there painted armie on crap tables with mismatched and worn out terrain which seems rather odd to me given that they make such a fuss about the visual aspects of the hobby...

I also see lots of events that require painted forces but the tables and terrain they provide look like absolute crap.

It always strikes me as rather ironic and amusing...

I was more making the point that there are people with nice terrain, that's some of the terrain I'm using at the moment. (mixture of my own stuff and GW's) I've always placed a reasonably high priority on terrain which should be, at minimum, neat and functional. I do agree with you that it is something that too many people neglect. Between the scenery that you can easily make yourself and the scenery you can go out and buy there's excuse for some of the tables I see.

CT GAMER wrote:certainly rather unrealistic considering that it depicts ruined urban structures yet the ground is completely clean and depicts no rubble.

Rubble is pretty but terrain is all about interaction with the mini's - you need clear space where they can be placed without falling over.

We always do, the newer store in Buffalo I believe is forcing 3 color in tournaments (RUMOR, I HAVE NOT CHECKED). My personal view is that not everyone has time to paint their army. I'm a college student who also works as a hockey ref. I have a lot of work to do & my free time is usually eaten up by lab work & what little sleep I can afford. I try to paint when I have time but if all my models had to be 3 color to use them I'd never get around to actually playing.

tl;dr people get busy & painting takes a lot of time. I would prefer painted but I understand if they aren't.

wolfshadow wrote:
I can base coat an entire box of marines in about 15 minutes. Heck, you dont even have to take them off the sprue.
Then hit the weapons with a coat of chainmail or boltgun.
Then hit the eyes or backpack with a different color.
Boom, 3 color standard.
Doesnt have to be 'finished' just meet the min standard.

And that my friends is the problem with painting requirements.
Would you rather face unpainted/partially painted armies?
Would you rather face poorly painted, 3 color minimum armies?
Would you rather face nothing but space marines, because they are easier to paint than 200 IG infantry (can sub in 60 chaos warriors vs 300 goblins).

IMO, painting should be encouraged. Positive reinforcement is typically more effective to completing a lengthy task like painting a whole army.

I played in a build up league, that any new unpainted unit started with 2 "green troop" tokens. Each token causes the first successful roll to be re-rolled. When partially painted, they play with no tokens. When finished and based, they get 2 "veteran" tokens. Each veteran token allows one failed rolled to be re-rolled.
So, with an in-game bonus for painting, along with paint-days (brushes, paint and beer supplied), I finished my first fantasy army.
(The green to veteran part was neat, but I'm all about free beer).



-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

wolfshadow wrote:
I can base coat an entire box of marines in about 15 minutes. Heck, you dont even have to take them off the sprue.
Then hit the weapons with a coat of chainmail or boltgun.
Then hit the eyes or backpack with a different color.
Boom, 3 color standard.
Doesnt have to be 'finished' just meet the min standard.

And that my friends is the problem with painting requirements.
Would you rather face unpainted/partially painted armies?
Would you rather face poorly painted, 3 color minimum armies?
Would you rather face nothing but space marines, because they are easier to paint than 200 IG infantry (can sub in 60 chaos warriors vs 300 goblins).

And I'll argue again that an unpainted primer grey army looks better than most army's painted to a "minimum standard". Yay you just spent $500 buying and painting an army that now looks like crap! Also, if you ever wish to sell your army I personally will not buy painted miniatures off ebay, because you can expect to have to paint over someone's "minimum standard" army that has paint gooped into all the detail.

Scott-S6 wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:I'm fully aware he was pimping the product in his sig...

I don't need terrain. In fact I have a rather large collection, multiple themed sets and six gaming tables in my game room. That wasn't the point.

The point I was making is I have seen many people that are hard core paint snobs in threads like this and in person that then put there painted armie on crap tables with mismatched and worn out terrain which seems rather odd to me given that they make such a fuss about the visual aspects of the hobby...

I also see lots of events that require painted forces but the tables and terrain they provide look like absolute crap.

It always strikes me as rather ironic and amusing...

I was more making the point that there are people with nice terrain, that's some of the terrain I'm using at the moment. (mixture of my own stuff and GW's) I've always placed a reasonably high priority on terrain which should be, at minimum, neat and functional. I do agree with you that it is something that too many people neglect. Between the scenery that you can easily make yourself and the scenery you can go out and buy there's excuse for some of the tables I see.

CT GAMER wrote:certainly rather unrealistic considering that it depicts ruined urban structures yet the ground is completely clean and depicts no rubble.

Rubble is pretty but terrain is all about interaction with the mini's - you need clear space where they can be placed without falling over.

Yes some people Do have nice terrain.

Again nice and ultra-detailed terrain ISN'T a must, and I'll play on whatever is available, but I was ratehr making the point that I have seen MANY people fielding fully painted armies on subpar terrain, and more importantly I have seen people that DEMAND painted armies (be they individuals, store or event organizers) yet their tables/terrain look like absolutely horrible, mismatched, run down and generally unappealing. These are the people that claim painted armies make the game "better" yet their tables are just as much an eyesore as any unpainted force.

As for the rubble, or lack thereof, I think your terrain looks fine, but was pointing out that a similar argument could be made regarding it then is being made about primed armies, etc.: a ruin with no rubble at all is the terrain equivilant of a primed figure. Rubble and the extra detailing that can go into terrain basing serve the same effect as basing on models and can be done in a way that increases aesthetics (which is what this whole argument is about) and STILL be a playable piece...

Many people neglect terrain, which is fine, but not IF they are then also being paint snobs/paint natzis when it comes to model they are gonna use or play against. If you are arguing that aesthetics must be addressed, then this MUST apply to terrain as well or you are being a hypocit an frankly sort of TFG to boot...

i dont alow unpainted armies on my table...... at a minium all units must be undre coated and 60% of the army must be painted

As long as the models are GW or a realistic proxy, the paint is irrelevant to me. 80% of my army is unpainted, and I am an unapologetic perfectionist. It takes me quite a while to paint one model.

I dont care one way or another, its the game that matters.

At tournaments and other predetermined "serious" games: Yes, definitely. Entire army painted to some standard and WYSIWYG or no entry.

For friendly games, I say play with what you got. Hell, even using paper cutouts of units you want to try out, or marking "carnifex" on that Dr Pepper bottle to fill out your ranks is fine with me as long as the player is friendly. I've played plenty of games with entirely subbed armies, paper monoliths, coke can monstrous creatures, and had lots of fun.

Selecting a game by player is much more important than selecting by army.

Everyone would rather play against fully painted armies, nobody is arguing this. The only exception is a very badly painted army, like those with garish unshaded colors. Nobody likes playing with people who obviously don't care about their models' appearance, and I agree it's disrespectful to the players who spent the time with theirs.

The simple fact is a lot of people don't have painted armies because 40k for them is a hobby, not some unpaid second job. Do you really want to scare new players out of this very hard-to-get-started hobby by saying not only do you have to spend $500+++ on an army, but you're not even allowed to play your game until you do the following chores.

For most people I'd say assembling the models is fun, and painting is not, so most people stop there.

112lom wrote:i dont alow unpainted armies on my table...... at a minium all units must be undre coated and 60% of the army must be painted

Don't be so picky, it's just a game, and it's not even your table. If someone at my gaming place sported this attitude I wouldn't play with them even if I had a master painted army, because they'll probably be as uptight about everything for the next 2 hours of the game.

Personally I dont play with anything that isnt at least painted up to my expectations as far as table top quality goes. For my opponent however, I take any player I can get. It does bother me, because I feel it definately detracts from the mystique of the game and the experience, but I cant go around dictating to people what they need to do....im not an donkey-cave. The person I currently play with has vitamin water bottles for drop pods, his sternguard is a mixture of terminators and orks, and his rhinos are pieces of paper in the shape of rhinos (2D)....some think that might be taking it too far, but I just enjoy playing.

I don't care if your model is fully painted. I don't even care if it's fully assembled.
I refuse to play anyone, however, who doesn't have all of their bases flocked and fully painted in a 100% matching scheme.

Eric

Hey i play with anyone my fav opponent dosent bring al of his models as he is a perfectionist and hasn't painted all of them yet and refuses to play with them unless they are all painted so im usualy up against a force of bases with writing on them

Personally i would prefer fielding my own army fully painted but alas one crucial thing is still glaring at me in chaos black primer and thats my character models for my dark elf army. Reason being that it is only after 2,5 years of painting i feel confident enough to give them a go.
so slowly geting there now but would never refuse a game because of another player not having painted his models.
the group i play in we have one guy who after 2,5 years still has units in chaos black and we rib him a bit but would never consider saying he could not play. of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and i can understand some people prefering to play against fully painted armies as would i.

MagickalMemories wrote:I don't care if your model is fully painted. I don't even care if it's fully assembled.
I refuse to play anyone, however, who doesn't have all of their bases flocked and fully painted in a 100% matching scheme.

Eric

Your joking right?

Mike

I am fine with it. As long as the army isn't painted in neon colors that hurts my eyes and has a giant flare attached to one of his tanks. I am fine.

I don't know if I would have ever played a game of 40k if I required my opponent's armies to be completely painted (much less wysiwyg).

I don't let my opponent's lack of desire to do painting get in the way of me playing the game.

I again will voice that I always try to field 100% painted, but don't mind if my opponet doesn't.

Though it is nice when in the local shop you and you're opponet both have painted armies, and people are watching because you're the only 2 with fully painted armies

Well, In dont really care if its unpainted, Im gonna play anyway, but I have to admit that it looks a lot nicer when the minis are painted.

Misguidance wrote:I remember when GW didn't allow unpainted armies. There were a lot of angry 8 year olds, complaining that their base-sprayed SM chapters aught to be allowed...

That would be why they changed the policy. It's all part of the way they target kids as a major source of profit. If you tell kids they can't use their toys until they've gone away and spent some time on them they probably won't bother or will buy stuff at an incredibly slow rate because of small attention spans and a need for instant gratification, especially in the age of computer games, many kids won't even pick up a damn book. GW staff want to say "Get this, this and THIS and you can use them all RIGHT NOW!!" because that's how you sell stuff.



Personally I only want painted miniatures on the table. I don't believe it's a big ask, especially for skirmish games and small armies. Hoard armies are more work but that's the decision of the person collecting them. If you are clearly in the middle of painting up an army the I'll cut you some slack but the reality is that many people in the habit of fielding unpainted armies and have very little intention of making progress between games. I'm not keen on playing a game that looks rubbish. I've heard all the excuses but we all have lives, jobs and families. Actually painting your army has always been part of the hobby for as long as the hobby has existed and I don't see a reason to change that now. If my stance on this has hardened in years it's because I see the fielding of unpainted models becoming more widespread.

Fielding unpainted miniatures is poor etiquette. It might sound harsh but I don't hold anyone to standards that I don't maintain myself.

I usually follow the three colour rule. I don't mind empty bases but merely assembled or basecoated minis are a disgrace

I don't mind playing against unpainted, but I would like you to eventually paint the models.

madmartykmf wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:I don't care if your model is fully painted. I don't even care if it's fully assembled.
I refuse to play anyone, however, who doesn't have all of their bases flocked and fully painted in a 100% matching scheme.

Eric

Your joking right?

Mike

I'll leave that up to you to decide.
I'll say this much, though... That statement is no more ridiculous than those that say they won't play against someone whose army is unpainted.

Eric

I personally dont care if a players army is painted, its more of an issue in tournaments but even then it doesnt bother me much.

I've always been more interested in the game itself then the hobby aspect.
I like modeling converting, but I paint like a two year old.


The other player would have to do more then just leave their models unpainted for me to avoid playing them.

Personally I don't field un painted troops. When I play people for fun, I won't play them if their army isn't painted or isn't close to WYSIWYG.

I took the time to paint my toy soldiers, I would hope the people I play against did the same.

Maybe I'm just lucky as the majority of the people in Orlando paint their toys. Pretty much all of the local gaming shops from Sci Fi City, Amorous Armadillo, and Paladin will sit down and help you learn how to paint. Also, I know that the Amorous Armadillo has a weekly workshop to help you paint your stuff. If you're not up for painting your toys, they they will ask if they can use your stuff in their weekly workshop and after a month or two you'll end up with a table top force (usually they just ask that you buy the paint and stock the painting cabinet/store bits box).

That and there are several stores in Central Florida that stock Warcast Studios bases so you're not having to worry about ordering resin bases online or anything like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MagickalMemories wrote:

madmartykmf wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:I don't care if your model is fully painted. I don't even care if it's fully assembled.
I refuse to play anyone, however, who doesn't have all of their bases flocked and fully painted in a 100% matching scheme.

Eric

Your joking right?

Mike

I'll leave that up to you to decide.
I'll say this much, though... That statement is no more ridiculous than those that say they won't play against someone whose army is unpainted.

Eric

I'm not kidding - I have only played one unpainted army in the last year and that was because he was brand new to Warhammer Fantasy. After two months he has a fully painted Demon army. It was still in progress. Then again, I'm not the kind of person that plays every weekend. I usually get 2-3 games in a month and in the months of Jan - Apr I get possibly 1-2 games in as I'm in work mode through this time (busy season sucks). So for me its not a ridiculous statement.

I won't play with an unpainted model. My buddies do, otherwise we couldn't have very large games. But they are good about WYSIWYG and don't play stuff for something it isn't. And they are painting their armies, it's just taking a while.