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purplefood wrote:[
Actually i was talking about the fact that when raising a child it isn't just the parents that teach it...
There are several ISAs that give you ideologies as you grow up.

And that is why I am talking about. The parents must tell it's kid why all that happened and what is good moral side and what bad. Or the kid will like the first thing he hear in school.

Also The EU isn't what stopped the fighting in Europe the fact it is way too expensive to fight major wars, the massive casualties in WWII and WWI and the 'threat of communism' is what stopped the fighting in Europe.
That an America taking part in the UN... that possibly helped as well.

It's the effect of "we had enough wars, can we all just get along and be friends?". And while you are right about WW1, WW2 and communism, the people was really inspired the fact that they could do more it their life than to be trained to kill one another. The whole idea of EU was to break down borders and bring men together, share cultures and to respect the people that they are, not by where they are coming from. And when all saw the destructive side of Atom Bomb...it make world to think more about peace, because if WW3 ever happen - it will be the last on this planet.

Their souls will go to the blood god!

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:[
Actually i was talking about the fact that when raising a child it isn't just the parents that teach it...
There are several ISAs that give you ideologies as you grow up.

And that is why I am talking about. The parents must tell it's kid why all that happened and what is good moral side and what bad. Or the kid will like the first thing he hear in school.

Also The EU isn't what stopped the fighting in Europe the fact it is way too expensive to fight major wars, the massive casualties in WWII and WWI and the 'threat of communism' is what stopped the fighting in Europe.
That an America taking part in the UN... that possibly helped as well.

It's the effect of "we had enough wars, can we all just get along and be friends?". And while you are right about WW1, WW2 and communism, the people was really inspired the fact that they could do more it their life than to be trained to kill one another. The whole idea of EU was to break down borders and bring men together, share cultures and to respect the people that they are, not by where they are coming from. And when all saw the destructive side of Atom Bomb...it make world to think more about peace, because if WW3 ever happen - it will be the last on this planet.

You really think it broke down the borders?
The amount of racism i have heard of from many of the countries in the EU is fairly astounding...
A child doens't just listen to its parents though... a child will listen to many different sources and eventually one of them will win. It may not be the one the parents believe in however. You seem to be under the impression that a parent controls everything the child thinks, this isn't true it's the opposite in fact.

Parents do have a fair amount of sway among their childrents opinions, especially in politics. Of the people i know, i'd bet that 90% have the same political views as that which their parents had growing up. Now its not always the case, but many children do try to emulate both their parents opinions and actions in order to gain approval

dajobe wrote:Parents do have a fair amount of sway among their childrents opinions, especially in politics. Of the people i know, i'd bet that 90% have the same political views as that which their parents had growing up. Now its not always the case, but many children do try to emulate both their parents opinions and actions in order to gain approval

They have a fair amount but they do not have total control especially in this day and age they have even less cotnrol than they did 20+ years ago.

If anything, children tend to rebel against their parents' viewpoints, often just for the sake of rebelling.

That's why you have to beat them.

And that's just harsh.

And necessary. And effective.


And fun.

It isn't necessary it might be effective and that last point sounds more like you're joking now...

*Sounds the Kanulwen horn* I fear he may be here shortly.

Anyway, I for one prescribe to his school of thoight-it is extremely extremely extremely (X1000) that Blood Ravens use Magnus' geneseed. I honestly cannot comprehend what possible reason the Imperium would have for wanting to use Traitor geneseed-because yeah, that went SO well last time-and even if they did I doubt they would want to use the Thousand Sons, which was already untsable when they were loyal. Yes, Ahriman pressed the big red floaty magicy button and 'solved the problem' (sort of), but I honestly doubt that would have affected the geneseed that hadn't yet been implanted into new aspirants and even if it had are the Imperium even aware of what the Rubric truly was? For the vast majority, I'd say no.
Now, is it possible that the Blood Ravens were descended from Thousand sons who didn't retreat into the eye with the rest of their legion, and stayed 'loyal' to the Emperor? Yes, and in fact that's extremely likely-without giving too much away Age of Darkness pretty much confirms this. I personally believe that they're like the Grey Knights, the founding members were from Traitor Legions but the modern (so to speak) incarnations of the chapter use their own geneseed, probably pulled from the Ultramarines or somesuch.
I belive we're rushing to conclusions with the whole 'secrets' thing. A fair few chapters have secrets-the Dark Angels for one. *Gasp* wait a minute, the Dark ANgels chapter icon has wings on it! So does the Blood Raven's! CONSPIRACY!!!
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that whilst maybe Magnus was the founder of the Blood Ravens-indirectly, but still-it wouldn't be fair to call him their Primarch. Because, quite frankly, he isn't.

Just my 2p.

I've already posted in this thread.

And most of the other ones.
As a sidenote, there's a part of the Index Astartes that hints at Blood Ravens having Dark Angels geneseed present. The only mention of Thousand Sons within there is a parable used by Puritanical Inquisition elements that amounts to "If the Blood Ravens keep predicting events with such clarity, they might end up going the way of Magnus".

Now stop sounding the horn. I'm trying to read the Warmachine Prime Mk2 book!

*Puts Horn down slightly ashamadly.* I must be going blind .

purplefood wrote:
A child doens't just listen to its parents though... a child will listen to many different sources and eventually one of them will win. It may not be the one the parents believe in however. You seem to be under the impression that a parent controls everything the child thinks, this isn't true it's the opposite in fact.

That's harsh but true, I can only show him the way - but he must choose. Will he be a gangster or solder it's up to him. But people get ideas, morals, ideology even from home first them from society.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Omegus wrote:If anything, children tend to rebel against their parents' viewpoints, often just for the sake of rebelling.

So if I am a Imperial fan, my son will be Chaos fan?
History will repeat itself...

I think the Blood Raven's gene-seed is a hybrid between the Blood Angels and Raven Guard gene-seed.

That's already been said just to be a joke theory, Cheesecat.

Kanluwen wrote:That's already been said just to be a joke theory, Cheesecat.

But I wasn't joking.

Then I'll have to lay down some logistics, I guess.

All of the Raven Guard Successors(of which there's like...two. The Raptors and another whose name eludes me right now) exhibit the traits of the Raven Guard: namely, the marble colored flesh and wholly black eyes as they age.

Most, if not all, of the Blood Angel Successors exhibit the Black Rage. That doesn't go away, it's a flaw in the seed.

Mixing the two gene-seeds wouldn't result in either 'problem' likely going away.

You'd end up with Robert Pattinson in Power Armor. And that, my friend, is a heresy that we can't allow.

If i have children and they fall to chaos, i will call their commisar myself and have him perform exterminatus! im still with loyalist thousand sons, because they rock

There are no loyalist Thousand Sons. The closest are Ahriman's cabal, and he hates the Imperium and Chaos with equal measure.

ooohhh...srry, mistook earlier posts...newb moment...

Kanluwen wrote:Then I'll have to lay down some logistics, I guess.

All of the Raven Guard Successors(of which there's like...two. The Raptors and another whose name eludes me right now) exhibit the traits of the Raven Guard: namely, the marble colored flesh and wholly black eyes as they age.

Most, if not all, of the Blood Angel Successors exhibit the Black Rage. That doesn't go away, it's a flaw in the seed.

Mixing the two gene-seeds wouldn't result in either 'problem' likely going away.

You'd end up with Robert Pattinson in Power Armor. And that, my friend, is a heresy that we can't allow.

Dang, it's just the name seemed too convenient. Which first founding chapters have the least faulty gene-seeds?

Ultramarines?

Omegus wrote:Ultramarines?

Well if you look at the mutation chances in Successor chapters in Deathwatch both Ultramarines and Dark Angels have 10% mutation chance.

Right, but half the Dark Angels turned renegade, so although their mutation rates may not be any higher, obviously there is a weakness of spirit in there somewhere.

There wasn't "half the Dark Angels" turning renegade at this point in time in canon.

It was a Chapter, at most, that did it--alongside of a lot of Imperial Army forces on Caliban and they began indoctrinating the upandcoming recruits into their viewpoint.

Kanluwen wrote:

You'd end up with Robert Pattinson in Power Armor. And that, my friend, is a heresy that we can't allow.

OH NOEZ!!! SPARKLY VAMPIRE MARINES?!?!

Kanluwen wrote:There wasn't "half the Dark Angels" turning renegade at this point in time in canon.

It was a Chapter, at most, that did it--alongside of a lot of Imperial Army forces on Caliban and they began indoctrinating the upandcoming recruits into their viewpoint.

Still, bespeaks of a weakness of character.

The Word Bearers didn't have much in the way of gene-seed instability, but their particular quirk was a penchant for fanaticism. The Dark Angels' equivalent quirk could well be being overly introspective, dwelling on real or imagined slights, faults and offenses. i.e. Emo.

Omegus wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:There wasn't "half the Dark Angels" turning renegade at this point in time in canon.

It was a Chapter, at most, that did it--alongside of a lot of Imperial Army forces on Caliban and they began indoctrinating the upandcoming recruits into their viewpoint.

Still, bespeaks of a weakness of character.

Uhhuh.

What's funny is that the person who orchestrated the whole "turning renegade" faction never had gene-seed implantations. Luther was seen by a great many of the Dark Angels as the "power behind the throne"--and the only reason he got anyone to follow him.

The Word Bearers didn't have much in the way of gene-seed instability, but their particular quirk was a penchant for fanaticism. The Dark Angels' equivalent quirk could well be being overly introspective, dwelling on real or imagined slights, faults and offenses. i.e. Emo.

Uhhuh.

I once in a semi rambling post tried to compare Lion'el Johnson to Sherlock Holmes / Greg House with his tactical ability and him wanting warmaster to demonstrate that he was 'the best.'

Whereas Luther was the Watson / Wilson part of it, the foil to him.

I ended up making most sense in my sum up.

Johnson was the head of the Dark Angels legion, while Luther was the heart. Which folds entirely into the 'tragedy' of the Dark Angels where things went horribly wrong when the 'head' was seperated from the 'heart.'

It also fitted with the grim darkness of 40k, where without the 'Reason' one guided my emotion is prey to Chaos.

Anyhows, when it comes down to it, the way I see it, is as far as Games Workshop 'canon' (if you can use such a word on the mess of 40k background) is concerned, the Blood Ravens are 'supposed' to be 1000 Sons descendants.

However, as I still haven't gotten round to playing Retribution properly, I think there is still a possibility that Relic's Blood Ravens have a different source.

People keep saying that there's only one proof, the 1ksons book prophecy, but wasn't there a moment in the DoW books where Ahriman called a blood raven brother? I havn't read those yet so I'm just going off what I've heard.

And to the dude that said Hawaii was made a state in 1960, that's super close for not double checking. August 21, 1959 is the date, so cudos to you for your momory. (Yes I checked. Really needed to know for some reason )