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On the plus side, when the Tau range is expanded (as it surely will be with a new book) they're likely to have a model for everything and continue in that fashion.

Ouze wrote:.... WHFB players ....? I wonder how linked the demographics are to simply what's in the starter box.

I bought the AoBR box for the rules, to learn how to play.I intended to play Eldar from the start.

But now, after 6 weeks, I'm buying more Marines, as they were so easy to put together, and play from the start.
I have bought more SMs to go with them, and only a half squad of DA are painted up. My Eldar aren't ready to play, and I'm getting more and more SMs, due to buying the AoBR box :(

Kilkrazy wrote:The Nids are missing the Tervigon -- an absolutely key unit -- and the Tyrannofex which is less important. I can't remember the third one.

Harpy.

One could argue Tyranid Prime as well or does that come under the flag of special character?

It's just a Warrior, which you could add more fancy parts or paint differently to represent IIRC.

Orks are missing Wazdakka Gutsmek & Flash Gits. One sucks and one is an IC, so whatever. More pressingly, there are no Nob Biker models - thats kind a rough one, as they are one of the best units in the book by general opinion. Having them available at super-high prices via FW is better then nothing, but not as good as a plastic release, obviously.

Those are ones I'd press for hard - I think not having a non-FW release of Nob Bikers is leaving money on the table.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:The Nids are missing the Tervigon -- an absolutely key unit -- and the Tyrannofex which is less important. I can't remember the third one.

Harpy.

none of which will most likely be in the next codex...

CT GAMER wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:The Nids are missing the Tervigon -- an absolutely key unit -- and the Tyrannofex which is less important. I can't remember the third one.

Harpy.

none of which will most likely be in the next codex...

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Don't forget Doom of Malan'tai and mycetic spore as well ... Swarmlord you need extra parts for as the Tyrant set doesn't have enough boneswords. Ymgarls - you will struggle to get the heads.

Also, most essential model is the hive guard which are metal single miniatures!

dienekes96 wrote:Navarro, this board is packed with comments from members, seemingly astonished that GW would ignore all of these awesome armies to just make Marines. The perpetual ignorance towards sound business practices, the frequent business advice, almost all of which is tailored toward some notion of getting x army some love, indicates that some people might be insane, in the classic definition. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

As for my snarky comment at the end, it was made in general. I think it is gteat that Warmachine and FoW are doing well. Confrontation and Starship Troopers were great once. Here is a question...which of GW's competitors.existed in 2004? How about in 1998? How about in 1991? You may not like their business practices, but they have proved to be a lot better than their competitors over the years.

Malice did not drive my comment. I hope the games people play last forever. I think competition is the best thing for this little industry. But in my time in the hobby, the competitors keep changing. Except GW.

So, a plea to those without a degree in finance, business, or at least some analytical background, please don't give business advice to the successful company that has currently outlasted all tabletop competitors.

Good to know there was no malice in your words, like many that like to put down GW for the sake of it theres also way to many people considering GW competitors a bad thing and as such they have some strange pleasure when things go under.
Yes GW is the older and biggest on the chart of wargamming ( but small comparing with toy companies) some business along these years didnt make it in the past, but I strongly believe the times are diferent today.
Theres a much more informed community and information about new Wgames are wide available now... In the past you had a store that carried GW and maybe some ralpharta ADD minis but that was it... today things are just not quite like that.

Reaper managed to surf the years and Warmachine has some respectable years on its back... and I believe if it wasnt the stupidity of Rackham ppp they would still be around also... Not sure about historicals but they have some old companies if Im not mistaken.
Yes GW got fat on the right moment and with almost no competition and that can make all the diference.

And just a little comment I believe GW biggest competitor is GW itself... today mistakes are payed dearly and small competitors will jump on GW neck at any chance... very diferent from the past.

You base your all argumentation on the fact GW outlast everyone else in the past but the thing is... the present and future are quite diferent beasts to handle and in the present moment people see GW slipping... THe mentality that things dont change is also very present in your line of arguments I tend to disagree with that, if anything I learned on my life as someone that has a company is that it only takes 2 planes to change the world and its economics.

I wouldn't say Ymgarl's and Doom are exactly deserving of a kit each though, both are capably made from the existing models.

Tyrannofex, Tervigon and Harpys however are a whole different issue though...


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Kilkrazy wrote:No-one is saying SMs shouldn't get releases. They are saying that non-SMs should get releases as well.

I say we should just leave it at that IMHO.

No no no it's not because GW is pushing SM onto every one or that the SM are more popular.

The SM are just fulfilling their duty to rid the universe of the Xenos, heretics and the weak.

But to be fair all BA need are a free pdf with rules for : storm raven, baal pred, death company and DC dred.

Codex (colour) Marines is a bit of a joke. Assuming I'm not using vulkan he'stan I can more accurately represent my salamanders with the BA codex since their tac squads can have two special weapons. (which salamanders could in 3rd edition!) Tis a farce.

Space Marine was a great game, but let's face it, the Space Marines were just a way to field a Titan...(damned Special cards)

ruminator wrote:Don't forget Doom of Malan'tai and mycetic spore as well ... Swarmlord you need extra parts for as the Tyrant set doesn't have enough boneswords. Ymgarls - you will struggle to get the heads.

Also, most essential model is the hive guard which are metal single miniatures!

Doom and Swarmlord are special characters, Ymargl stealers have a model, even if it's not convenient. Likewise, Hive Guard are available, even if they could do with a plastic kit. Good point on the spod though.

Ouze wrote:More pressingly, there are no Nob Biker models - thats kind a rough one, as they are one of the best units in the book by general opinion. Having them available at super-high prices via FW is better then nothing, but not as good as a plastic release, obviously.

Well, they're pretty easy to build: nob bodies from boys spures, arms from nob sprues, etc. Use the remaining nob bodies to build upgrade nobs or foot nob squads.

It's not the most convenient, but it's kind of like saying there is no Missile Launcher Long Fang kit.

The lack of a warboss biker, IMO, is more pressing, but even that is a simple conversion.

games workshop focuses on SM for one simple reason: laziness.

all you need to release a new SM variant codex (i.e. BA, DA, BT, SW, etc.) is new shoulder pads and maybe a new vehicle or two. the overall model is roughly the same with maybe a robe or a new helmet.

I say again, GW space mari--- er, product designers are as lazy as a plaguebearer on vicoden.

Scott-S6 wrote:
Doom and Swarmlord are special characters

Does that stop GW from releasing dozens of Space Marine special character models? No, so why should every other race have to do without?

Tyranids deserve a swarmlord if Space Marines deserve...I'll be damned if I even go through the effort of naming them all.

That goes for the prime, too. Maybe it is just a warrior with fancy bits, but on the same token so is every other Space Marine character: it's a Space Marine with bling. So everyone saying they don't "need" this or that because it's a character and can be converted, keep that in mind next time you're fielding your Vulkan or Seth army.

Polonius wrote:
The lack of a warboss biker, IMO, is more pressing, but even that is a simple conversion.

Considering how absolutely beautiful the forge world model is, I'm willing to let this one go. It may be expensive as all hell, but I'll be damned if it's not gorgeous. Next to the Krieg Qaurtermaster and Eldar Avatar (you're next!), it's probably the best model that Forgeworld's put out.

Sidstyler wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:
Doom and Swarmlord are special characters

Does that stop GW from releasing dozens of Space Marine special character models? No, so why should every other race have to do without?

Tyranids deserve a swarmlord if Space Marines deserve...I'll be damned if I even go through the effort of naming them all.

That goes for the prime, too. Maybe it is just a warrior with fancy bits, but on the same token so is every other Space Marine character: it's a Space Marine with bling. So everyone saying they don't "need" this or that because it's a character and can be converted, keep that in mind next time you're fielding your Vulkan or Seth army.

that's a bit hyperbolic. Look at Blood Angels: they got the Sanguinor, Astaroth, Seth, and Lemartes as special characters. Teh only other metal models they got were the Sang Priest (direct only) and the Vanguard Vet Sargeant. Space Wolves got Canis, Njal, and Lukas as SCs, with the wolf guard with claws the only other new metal. Marines (5th) got Sicarius, Vulkan, Khan, Cassius, Pedro, Telion and Chronus as Special Characters, but also got Legion of the Damned, Sternguard, Vanguards, and the Thunderfire as metals. In comparison, the Nids got Pyrovore, Venomthrope, , Hive Guard, and the Biovore in metal. Given the size and bulk of Nid metals, they got comparable metal support to Wolves and Angels, but far less than marines.

Now, compare plastics. Angels got the Baal, the Furioso, Death Company, Sang Guard. Wolves got Wolf Packs and Wolf Guard Termies. Marines got the Drop Pod, the Redeemer, Scout bikes, and the landspeeder storm. Nids got Gargoyles, Ravenors, and the Trygon. This time they are third out of four.

So, Nid support was far under that of SM, but generally greater than wolves and slighly less than blood angels. Keep in mind with the special characters that one reason they're so popular for GW is that many people buy them for non-gaming reasons.

Or for other games, some of the Tyranid metal figures, got sorta jacked by my DM for D&D uses, otherwise they sat on the shelf next to all the guys I painted because I thought they looked cool.

There are too many space marines around. Merge the books already, but that won't happen since GW is a company that needs profit.

All we can hope for is that after GK it's all xenos until there's no xenos to update left.

Ouze wrote:Orks are missing Wazdakka Gutsmek & Flash Gits. One sucks and one is an IC, so whatever. More pressingly, there are no Nob Biker models - thats kind a rough one, as they are one of the best units in the book by general opinion. Having them available at super-high prices via FW is better then nothing, but not as good as a plastic release, obviously.

Those are ones I'd press for hard - I think not having a non-FW release of Nob Bikers is leaving money on the table.

IIRC, there is a Flash Git model. It's not bad, but it's metal so forget about loota conversions without it being a PitA. Sigh.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440268a&prodId=prod650001a

I don't mind that they make a ton of marine variants, but why not release variant for other armies as well? Like for Chaos, you could have different god, or the Lost and the Damned. For Orks, make a Codex for Feral Orks or Speed Freaks specifically. Eldar craftworlds could work too. Even if they were just PDFs I'd be happy.

Polonius wrote:

Ouze wrote:More pressingly, there are no Nob Biker models - thats kind a rough one, as they are one of the best units in the book by general opinion. Having them available at super-high prices via FW is better then nothing, but not as good as a plastic release, obviously.

Well, they're pretty easy to build: nob bodies from boys spures, arms from nob sprues, etc. Use the remaining nob bodies to build upgrade nobs or foot nob squads.

It's not the most convenient, but it's kind of like saying there is no Missile Launcher Long Fang kit.

It's kind of not, actually. One is possibly the best unit in the book, the other is a single piece of wargear (which is, in fact, represented in the Devastator kit). And, yes, I'm aware you can convert your own, but you could do that for freaking anything; the point is they have no non-resin models. Here's another analogy: lets pretend there are no sternguard available for Space Marines, and a strenous argument was present there don't need to be, since you can just add some extra purity seals to some tactical marines... right?

Doctor Optimal wrote:

IIRC, there is a Flash Git model. It's not bad, but it's metal so forget about loota conversions without it being a PitA. Sigh.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440268a&prodId=prod650001a

Yeah, I forgot that direct-only guy. You can in fact spend minimum $82 up to $165 for 5 to 10 of the exact same unipose Flash Git. Not an attractive option, but it is an option, which makes you technically right: and that's the best kind of right.

Ouze wrote:

Polonius wrote:

Ouze wrote:More pressingly, there are no Nob Biker models - thats kind a rough one, as they are one of the best units in the book by general opinion. Having them available at super-high prices via FW is better then nothing, but not as good as a plastic release, obviously.

Well, they're pretty easy to build: nob bodies from boys spures, arms from nob sprues, etc. Use the remaining nob bodies to build upgrade nobs or foot nob squads.

It's not the most convenient, but it's kind of like saying there is no Missile Launcher Long Fang kit.

It's kind of not, actually. One is possibly the best unit in the book, the other is a single piece of wargear (which is, in fact, represented in the Devastator kit). And, yes, I'm aware you can convert your own, but you could do that for freaking anything; the point is they have no non-resin models. Here's another analogy: lets pretend there are no sternguard available for Space Marines, and a strenous argument was present there don't need to be, since you can just add some extra purity seals to some tactical marines... right?

yeah, there's a missile launcher in the devestator box. Just like there's a nob in the biker box...

And isn't that what everybody does for their sternguard?

Phototoxin wrote:...I can more accurately represent my salamanders with the BA codex since their tac squads can have two special weapons...

Blood Angels tactical squads can't do that.

Would it be logical to use this newer graph on page two to surmise what codex's are next for update?

From the lowest releases per race:

0 - Demonhunters, Witchunters, Tau

1 - Necrons, CSM

2- Eldar

Wouldn't it be funny if this information could be extrapolated to figure out estimates on codex releases?

Ouze wrote:

Doctor Optimal wrote:

IIRC, there is a Flash Git model. It's not bad, but it's metal so forget about loota conversions without it being a PitA. Sigh.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440268a&prodId=prod650001a

Yeah, I forgot that direct-only guy. You can in fact spend minimum $82 up to $165 for 5 to 10 of the exact same unipose Flash Git. Not an attractive option, but it is an option, which makes you technically right: and that's the best kind of right.

Hey, why so serious? Also, who fields Flash Gits? Also, who fields Flash Gits that aren't just Lootas with gold teef and pirate hats?

Just to play devil's advocate and still show how the stats are skewed, as Forgeworld to begin with is skewed towards Imperial forces to begin with. Their release schedule does not coincide with the main release schedule for Warhammer 40K. Forgeworld has their own books and their own timeline for releases. Same reason I will argue that GW hasn't released 5 warriors/demons of chaos in 2011 - Warhammer Forge released several models that aren't readily available to everyone and the rules for most of them cannot be used in a tournament unless you count it as a generic version. With the release of the two Badab War books and the final Krieg books, of course there was going to be a large influx of marines and imperial guard strictly because their books have traditionally always included a guard, marine, and one xenos in each book.