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Jidmah wrote:It does show this, based on Ramses colored statement being right. Of course stormboyz do not have Personal Teleporters, which results in a conflict, and thus proves the entire statement wrong.

Had to do similar exercises dozens times in college, finding a conflict is a common practise to prove a statement wrong.

Except I am not applying a BRB rule that would apply to all armies within Warhammer 40k. I quoted a specific entry in the GK codex to which there is no flawed logic within that codex.

The only way that logic would be flawed is if the GK codex had some other way of making the units Jump Infantry. Lets say Jump Packs,

A=B, where A is a unit with personal teleporters or jump packs and B is Jump Infantry.

Would be the way for the statement to ring true.

As it stands there are no other means for a unit in the GK codex to become Jump Infantry other then to have personal teleporters. So the standard for the GK codex which is the topic at hand, not Orcs would be,

A=B, where A is a unit with personal teleporters and B is Jump Infantry

as well as the inverse being completely true for the GK codex,

B=A where B is Jump Infantry and A is a unit with personal teleporters.

Way to delve right out of the codex topic at hand. Notice that I said try to plug in any of your hybrid creations, not pull other units from completely different codices. I guess Stormboyz were one of the hybrids mentioned? Assault Marines? Warp Spiders?

Jidmah wrote:It does show this, based on Ramses colored statement being right. Of course stormboyz do not have Personal Teleporters, which results in a conflict, and thus proves the entire statement wrong.

Had to do similar exercises dozens times in college, finding a conflict is a common practise to prove a statement wrong.

Ah, I see what you were doing then. Sorry, got confused in all this muddled mess.

BR - in which case you need to use the single arrow, not equivalence. Your statement is entirely in error.

nosferatu1001 wrote:BR - in which case you need to use the single arrow, not equivalence. Your statement is entirely in error.

Didn't think it was needed considering the entire topic at hand has been about the GK codex and I even asked that said hybrid creations from the GK codex be the ones plugged. Last time I checked, at no time, were we talking about the Orc codex or even Stormboyz. For the standard being used, the GK codex, my statement is not in error.

No, you made a logical statement with errors. Deal with it. Your equivalence statement is invalid.

BTW: it;s JI AND MC, nothing states it loses its MC status. And it will be FAQd in a similar way.

Glad you can read the future.

And for the Codex Grey Knights, it is a true statement.

Is there anything in the GK dex that is Jump Infantry that does not have personal teleporters? Is there anything in the GK dex that has personal teleporters that is not Jump Infantry?

And we know that it won't be both, it will be a MC that moves as Jump Infantry. Just like HT with Wings and just like DP with Wings move as Jump Infantry.

"similar way", you missed it there.

You made a general equivalence statement, free of context. That was incorrect. Again, admit your error and move on.

Brother Ramses wrote:Just like HT with Wings and just like DP with Wings move as Jump Infantry.

Which was still not the case in the previous Tyranid codex still used with the current main rules--they did used to be both.
Codex: Tyranids 1994
"Winged creatures are treated as Jump Infantry in all respects."

No one played the Hive Tyrant without it being a Monstrous Creature, though with wings it was also Jump Infantry.

nosferatu1001 wrote:"similar way", you missed it there.

You made a general equivalence statement, free of context. That was incorrect. Again, admit your error and move on.

Free of context? I am posting in a thread called, "Dreadknights in Storm Ravens". I am referencing and quoting a rule in the Grey Knights codex. I am referencing and quoting a peice of wargear specific to the Grey Knights codex.

kirsanth wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:Just like HT with Wings and just like DP with Wings move as Jump Infantry.

Which was still not the case in the previous Tyranid codex still used with the current main rules--they did used to be both.
Codex: Tyranids 1994
"Winged creatures are treated as Jump Infantry in all respects."

No one played the Hive Tyrant without it being a Monstrous Creature, though with wings it was also Jump Infantry.

And yet it was still questioned whether or not they could deepstrike, leading to the new codex entry and some still questioned whether they could deepstrike. If the last codex was all fine and dandy, why the change to moves as?

Even moreso, the old codex did not make the definitive statement that the unit with wings was jump infantry like the GK codex does with personal teleporters.

Brother Ramses wrote:Even moreso, the old codex did not make the definitive statement that the unit with wings was jump infantry like the GK codex does with personal teleporters.

"Winged creatures are treated as Jump Infantry in all respects" is a definitive statement and a direct quote.

There is no rule saying a unit cannot have two Unit Types.

The GK codex makes clear that a DK is an MC.
The GK codex makes clear that a DK with PT is JI.

Nothing in the core rules makes those two things mutually exclusive.
Nothing in the GK codex says that taking a PT removes the MC unit type.

Lol I feel like this arguement keeps going further and further south. We need GW to come out with a faq before the next large tourny or blood may be spilled.

If someone reminded me to Shunt my Stormboyz I would remind them that codex wargear and rules to do not cross into each other as per the GW errata/FAQ. Your entire point is false because Stormboyz don't have the option for personal teleporters nor do they have access to the special rules that are unique to another codex.

That was my entire point, please reread my post.

Brother Ramses. If you don't understand the error in your statement, you might want to consult a textbook about statements, there are some pretty good ones. Your statement said wearing teleporters and being jump infantry is exactly the same for all purposes, which is wrong. Wargear can never be equal to a type for obvious reasons. So of course a hybrid would not work in a wrong statment, as even regular jump infantry (ie. Stormboyz) does not work.

You claim:
1) All Units with teleporters must be Jump infantry. This is correct, because the Codex says so.

2) All Jump Infantry in the Grey Knight codex must be wearing teleporters. This is an assumption, no prove given so far. There is not a single unit "Jump Infantry" in the whole codex, unless you can prove hybrids being impossible. You can not prove anything based on asumptions.

3) Hybrids are impossible because of 1) and 2).


Lets assume you even proved 2) by giving Tzeench a call.

Insert Dread Knight with Teleporterof type Jump Infantry and Monstrous Creature.

I. If the Dread Knight is wearing a teleporter, he must be Jump Infantry. Is he? Yes.

II. All Jump Infantry in the Grey Knight Codex must be wearing Teleporters. Is he? Yes.

No conflict, 3) has been disproven by counter-example.

So you still don't have an agrument.

Jidmah wrote:

If someone reminded me to Shunt my Stormboyz I would remind them that codex wargear and rules to do not cross into each other as per the GW errata/FAQ. Your entire point is false because Stormboyz don't have the option for personal teleporters nor do they have access to the special rules that are unique to another codex.

That was my entire point, please reread my post.

Brother Ramses. If you don't understand the error in your statement, you might want to consult a textbook about statements, there are some pretty good ones. Your statement said wearing teleporters and being jump infantry is exactly the same for all purposes, which is wrong. Wargear can never be equal to a type for obvious reasons. So of course a hybrid would not work in a wrong statment, as even regular jump infantry (ie. Stormboyz) does not work.

You claim:
1) All Units with teleporters must be Jump infantry. This is correct, because the Codex says so.

2) All Jump Infantry in the Grey Knight codex must be wearing teleporters. This is an assumption, no prove given so far. There is not a single unit "Jump Infantry" in the whole codex, unless you can prove hybrids being impossible. You can not prove anything based on asumptions.

3) Hybrids are impossible because of 1) and 2).


Lets assume you even proved 2) by giving Tzeench a call.

Insert Dread Knight with Teleporterof type Jump Infantry and Monstrous Creature.

I. If the Dread Knight is wearing a teleporter, he must be Jump Infantry. Is he? Yes.

II. All Jump Infantry in the Grey Knight Codex must be wearing Teleporters. Is he? Yes.

No conflict, 3) has been disproven by counter-example.

So you still don't have an agrument.

Hahahahahahahah! Really?

You just state that a Dreadknight with a personal teleporteris Jump Infantry and Monstrous Creature and then contradict your own statement.

By your standard a Dreadknight with a personal teleporter is not Jump Infantry, he is Jump Infantry AND a Monstrous Creature so therefore does not fulfill the statement of a unit with a personal teleporter is Jump Infantry. You cannot retain the Monstrous Creature status and be Jump Infantry. Your little counter arguement falls flat on its face because you keep trying to retain AND Monstrous Creature when the codex only calls for it to be Jump Infantry. It is like you conveniently ignore that you are retaining the MC status when it calls for Jump Infantry and then conveniently ignoring JI when it calls for Monstrous Creature.

And by all means, please show me a case in the GK codex where a unit that is Jump Infantry does not have personal teleporters.

Jid and Nos Disclaimer:

This post is about the GK Codex in regard to GK wargear and GK units because context are important!

Brother Ramses wrote:By your standard a Dreadknight with a personal teleporter is not Jump Infantry, he is Jump Infantry

There was more afterwards, but really this is what makes the statement come across strangely.

Editing to add:
Necrons Monolith is a model that is a necron unit (without the Necron rule) that is a vehicle that is a tank that is a skimmer that has equipment that can function as weapons that can be ranged weapons that can be blast that can be ap1.

Which part of that sentence stops the rest from being true?
Or would it help more if I used a GK example? I did not as I do not have the book.

Brother Ramses wrote:Your little counter arguement falls flat on its face because you keep trying to retain AND Monstrous Creature when the codex only calls for it to be Jump Infantry.

A tomato can be yellow. Does that mean that it no longer is a tomato?

This thread has gotten circular and silly. Locking.