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Im sure it said moves as jump infantry I look on monday (in store copy :3)

No, it doesnt. It states "are"

So, why the feth would anyone want to put it in a raven?
I would allow it if someone used it against me, but im just a cruel bastard.

since you know, its no longer a MC, so doesent ignore saves, goes back to 1D6 pen, has to stick to firing restrictions etc.

All in all, its a fething MC, anyone seen it stood by a raven? i wanna know how it fits.
Also, it aint a fething dreadnought, so cant use the racks.

Apart from its doomfists, which are power weapons....

What S are they using?

Assuming it works as likely-intended, S10

Otherwise it would be S7 with hammerhand

There is no Personal Teleporter in the Wargear section nor are there rules within the Dreadknight's entry.

The only rules for the Personal Teleporter are within the Strike Squads & Interceptors Squads entry and this specifically stated "Personal Teleporter: (Interceptor Squad only)" so as far as you all should be concerned, there are no rules for the Personal Teleporter for the Dreadknight.

You cannot draw on rules from other unit entries to fill holes in the Dreadknight's entry and rules. Effectively, you could spend all those points for a Personal Teleporter with no rules, because the only rules that do exist state "Interceptor Squad only." As such, a Dreadknight could not possibly convert from MC to JI.

Specific > General

the Dreadknight specifies you can take a PT, thus you can.

Nos, what is that as RAW, not RAI?
Since you know, to get one in a raven its RAW, not RAI.
Im guessing its S7, in which case, AV 14 is safe.




On the note of PT rules: Got to agree with nos on this one.
Alot of rules are under a certain units entry before the unit selection pages.
If smash was right in what he is saying, tons of units would have rules and weapons that do nothing as they dont have them written on thier entry.

Smashotron wrote:There is no Personal Teleporter in the Wargear section nor are there rules within the Dreadknight's entry.

The only rules for the Personal Teleporter are within the Strike Squads & Interceptors Squads entry and this specifically stated "Personal Teleporter: (Interceptor Squad only)" so as far as you all should be concerned, there are no rules for the Personal Teleporter for the Dreadknight.

You cannot draw on rules from other unit entries to fill holes in the Dreadknight's entry and rules. Effectively, you could spend all those points for a Personal Teleporter with no rules, because the only rules that do exist state "Interceptor Squad only." As such, a Dreadknight could not possibly convert from MC to JI.

It's in the options for a dreadknight, and you most certainly can. Plenty of codexes list an item of wargear in one unit entry and allow other units to take it as well.

Model: Drazhar
Wargear: Demiklaives
Where: In the incubi section, not listed in his own.

Theres one quick example which kinda ruins you idea of no entry, no use.

This is a joke thread, right? I mean, no one can seriously not understand how it is supposed to work?

As for shooting it can shoot 1 gun for being JI, and is allowed two for being a MC. so it can fire two.

Sorry but this is not correct it can ONLY shoot 1 weapon because it is JI but it can also shoot 2 Weapons because it is an MC, you have no way of choosing which rule takes precedence. Infact both HAVE to take precedence. Thus say the changeling makes you shoot your own unit you must both shoot 2 weapons and can only shoot 1...

It simply can't be that a unit has more than 1 type.

Nos, what is that as RAW, not RAI?
Since you know, to get one in a raven its RAW, not RAI.
Im guessing its S7, in which case, AV 14 is safe.

It would be S10 your strength is doubled and you ignore armour for being armed with a doomfist.

I do love how the rulebook only comes <.> this close to actually saying specifically what they do.

"While monstrous creatures use many of the infantry rules, their size and destructive capability make them a lot more dangerous"

"Jump Infantry can move like normal infantry or activate their jump device to make a high-speed move, leaping over intervening terrain and models."

So close, yet so far away.

Btw, as far as possibility of it having a Dreadknight on it, I'd say yes. As far as it being in the cargo hold where the infantry goes, I'd say no. The Dreadnaughts in the Stormraven's from the blood angels don't sit in a compartment they are grappled onto the ship

Exact wording from the Blood Angel codex:(Yes I know not the same codex, as I don't live near a GW place I'm going by what I have, if anyone could actually post the EXACT wording of the Storm Raven entry that would be helpful)
"The Stormraven can carry two separate squads: one unit of up to 12 models in its cabin, plus a sinngle Dreadnought in its rear grapples(..blah blah Michael Bay explosions..) Now insert the part where it says jump infantry can embark but count as 2 models .. which is where the conversation is "

Also interestingly enough I did find this tidbit..

"You will find that codexes often add even more changes and exceptions for specific models. In any given situation during a battle, if the Codex doesn't say any different, follow the rules for the appropiate unit type, and if those rules don't say anything different, follow the rules for basic infantry."

... So, if I'm not mistaken says right there, use rules for basic infantry.. meaning loses MC?

No, nothing makes it lose its MC status.

'if the Codex doesn't say any different, follow the rules for the appropiate unit type'

the appropriate unit type in this case is MC. adding a Jump pack does not make the DK smaller, so he still can not fit inside the Stormraven.

FlingitNow wrote:It simply can't be that a unit has more than 1 type.

Page Number Please.

I'm agreeing with you death in this case, its just to me its a matter of one or the other, or it counts as basic infantry. They are saying that it becomes both, and as there are no rules for both, you use the appropriate type which I'd imagine is the default it starts as. And if that is still in dispute then it loses ALL BENEFITS.. buwhahahah, no jump infantry no monstrous creature!

'if the Codex doesn't say any different, follow the rules for the appropiate unit type'

the appropriate unit type in this case is MC. adding a Jump pack does not make the DK smaller, so he still can not fit inside the Stormraven.

THE appropriate unit type. Notice the total lack of pluralisation in that sentence...

So how many guns can it fire and if it moves can it fire heavy weapons?

Where would it go?

Transforms into an overhead locker?

I'll tell you where it goes, if you can tell me how you fit 10 space marines into a Rhino..

There is alot of problems with the dreadknight lol

the rule is any model with blah ARE Jump Infantry

However it does not state your unit type is jump infantry

So its an If you think a model can be and MC and jump infantry

and not or can go in a SR

Also DCCW dont do anything to MCs

So its an If you think a model can be and MC and jump infantry

How can it possibly shoot like both infantry and an MC at the same time? THat is what you are requiring it to do by saying it is both an MC and JI. It can not possibly be both it is one or the other.

FlingitNow wrote:

So its an If you think a model can be and MC and jump infantry

How can it possibly shoot like both infantry and an MC at the same time? THat is what you are requiring it to do by saying it is both an MC and JI. It can not possibly be both it is one or the other.

Im not saying it can, im just saying thats what it comes down to due to the failed rules writing


Automatically Appended Next Post:

f74 wrote:Where would it go?

Transforms into an overhead locker?

Autobots assemble

oh wait

Overwatch CNC brought this up on Capture and Control. I think that this goes two ways like OW says. If you indeed lose MC status but gain JI status then you lose MC for everything, including 2d6 for ap in CC!

f74 wrote:Transforms into an overhead locker?

*gasp* It is the Stormraven!


No, but on a more serious note, with every new GK thread on Dakka, I hate Mat Ward just a little bit more.

Slackermagee wrote:Jump infantry count as infantry in most cases, to the point where they can choose to move 6" as infantry or 12" as jump infantry. They don't stop being jump infantry, they just choose not to 'jump' that turn, to avoid dangerous terrain tests and what not.

This is where your wrong. In the BRB under Unit Types, Jump Infantry is clearly a seperate type from Infantry where Jetbikes are a subtype of Bikes.

Interestingly enough, it doesn't matter. Seeing as the Dreadknight is a single model unit, you can't join ICs to him, and if he gets into the interior of a Stormraven, he's the only thing that is going to be inside there.

Even if someone wanted to play like this, it wouldn't be that big of a deal- stormravens can carry a unit of Paladins, why would it matter if someone wanted to transport a single dreadknight (that loses it's 2d6 pen and x2 guns, nonetheless).

Moot point really. If you play against someone and they really want to do this, let them. This use is incredibly points-inefficient, especially for a 200+ MC that they paid to put a personal teleporter on (that they are now not using for mobility, because it is sitting alone inside a SR).

You can't stack multiple Dreadknights into the Raven, because it only holds 1 unit of guys inside (the dreadknight being a unit of 1 model) and 1 Walker on the outside. If someone attempts to do this in a game, just let them. Nothing about it is even remotely scary.

I think it's pretty clear that the intention of the rule would be for him to "move like" jump infantry instead of actually becoming jump infantry. No, it doesn't say that specifically but to think anything else seems a little ridiculous. If for no other reason than just everything that's been stated here, losing 2d6 pen, losing the ability to fire two weapons, no more moving and shooting heavy weapons, no MTC...

Also, in the instance of the dreadknight actually being both unit types, you would go the route that breaks the fewest rules. So, if he IS both JI and MC, and only JI can go on the storm raven, then he still wouldn't be able to go because MC can't go on the storm raven and he would "still" be an MC.

And yes, while JI may be a separate unit type (as opposed to a subtype) the differences between infantry and jump infantry are not that substantial and it is quite clear (or should be, to everyone) that JI is meant to simply be an upgraded (see, BETTER) infantry type.

It seems like RAW is actually (unintentionally) supporting RAI. Going by RAW there is nothing taking away his MC status (I've seen worse renderings by RAW) so he's disallowed from embarking. Going by RAI, it's pretty clear the wording was suppose to just give him Jump Infantry movement, not change his type. If people do try to argue that he is now Jump Infantry (which would take a combination of RAW and RAI, since there's no RAW stating that unit types are mutually exclusive). Just my 2 cents.

Also, there seems to be ALOT of these cropping up with the GK codex. Maybe they pushed it out the door a little too fast?

FlingitNow wrote:So how many guns can it fire and if it moves can it fire heavy weapons?

For the record, having MC and JI would not make it lose Relentless, which MC gives.

MC also gives the ability to fire two weapons.

MCs need to be covered by 50% to receive a cover bonus.

MCs can not embark in any vehicle.

JI gives the ability to move 12".

JI take dangerous terrain tests when landing in difficult terrain and using their jump packs.

JI can not embark in any vehicle.

JI and MC are forbidden to embark. Stormravens allow JI to embark, but not MC, and he most definitely is an MC. It would benefit from all of the abilities granted by both unit types, and suffer from all the penalties. Are you suggesting a Dreadknight with PT would not need 50% coverage for a cover save?

For the record, having MC and JI would not make it lose Relentless, which MC gives.

why not? JI are specified to shoot as normal infantry. Can normal infantry fire as MCs?