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That per Army breakdown is close, but not 100% accurate.

If there were Undecideds listed, it was because we didn't enter their Army during initial check-in. That has since been corrected. First day back at work, lots to catch up on, but I will try to post the true army breakdown list later today, but like i said the above list is pretty close.

I'd also like to point out that we manually checked and verified all 246 army lists for this event during the first two rounds. We didn't find anything too terrible, but we did find a handful of errors that we had the players correct. In rounds 3 and 4 we took all the lists that were still in the running for qualification and rechecked them again. The lists that then qualified for Sunday were checked a third time.

We then retained those lists, made photocopies of them and then returned lists to the players during the Sunday finals. We then had the players set up their armies and visually checked each army on the table versus the list returned to make sure no changes or errors were made. Overall it was a grueling process, but I think it worked very well.

Of course all the tweaks and improvements we made to this event and the convention as a whole go generally unspoken of or unrecognized every year. People tend to have blinders on about a specific event and the numerical results of that event. Understandable, but it all needs some persepctive in terms of logistics.

Redbeard wrote:

I'm not sure I agree with this analysis.

First of all, check the colors I added above. Those seem like more statistically relevant breaks. One more person played guard than orks or marines. For all intents and purporses, the top two armies are new MEQ codexes, followed by three armies that are almost equally balanced in representation. Good news for GK players, it would appear.

Also, I believe I saw more Blood Angels on foot (or, perhaps jumping) than meched up. I think there were as many mech orks as mech blood angels - they seemed fairly split between kans and wagons (plus one who ran wazdakka ) Both Wolves and Angels have good mech builds, but they've also got good non-mech builds.

I would agree---in so much that I saw many Sanguinary Guard lists----however I'm not sure how well those lists did. I'm sure there were alternative SW lists as well----but when I see the top 3 armies played---also sharing the same characteristic in terms of easy access to cheap gunlineish transports----I don't think that's a coincidence.

I also think that each time you see a BA list that isn't fast Razor w/ Pred spam---it registers more than 'another mech BA player'. You tend to remember the exceptions and not the rule.


All that said---I would love to see a break down of the top 10 BA lists, the top 10 SW lists, etc. That would probably be a better indicator.

You can see/hear all of the video coverage we did of the Finals event here:

http://theindependentcharacters.com/blog/?p=900

I have to say Matt Weeks runs a tight ship. This was a great event and went very smooth. Tony taking the final game was a testament to his skill as a player and I found him to be quite pleasant in person. I would love to get my butt stomped by him at some point.

cvtuttle wrote:You can see/hear all of the video coverage we did of the Finals event here:

http://theindependentcharacters.com/blog/?p=900

I have to say Matt Weeks runs a tight ship. This was a great event and went very smooth. Tony taking the final game was a testament to his skill as a player and I found him to be quite pleasant in person. I would love to get my butt stomped by him at some point.

Independent Characters did a great Job! i can"t wait to watch it my self.

Thanks Matt for running such a tight ship. When i was playing at the final tables there judges everywhere. Never a problem with a single rule issue.

And again congratulations to Tony. He was a great player and a humble person.

whitedragon wrote:

RiTides wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:This is all interesting, but I think I speak for all of us when I ask if Dakka Detachment 2 did better overall than Dakka Detachment 1?

Sigh... wish I could've been there this year.

Seconded!

http://www.adepticon.org/?page_id=2350

Dakka Detachment 2 - 26th, 10 points behind Dakka Detachment 1!

Well that's closer than last year so watch out DD1, DD2 is creeping up!

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Redbeard wrote:First of all, check the colors I added above. Those seem like more statistically relevant breaks. One more person played guard than orks or marines. For all intents and purporses, the top two armies are new MEQ codexes, followed by three armies that are almost equally balanced in representation. Good news for GK players, it would appear.

Also, I believe I saw more Blood Angels on foot (or, perhaps jumping) than meched up. I think there were as many mech orks as mech blood angels - they seemed fairly split between kans and wagons (plus one who ran wazdakka ) Both Wolves and Angels have good mech builds, but they've also got good non-mech builds.

I would agree---in so much that I saw many Sanguinary Guard lists----however I'm not sure how well those lists did. I'm sure there were alternative SW lists as well----but when I see the top 3 armies played---also sharing the same characteristic in terms of easy access to cheap gunlineish transports----I don't think that's a coincidence.

I also think that each time you see a BA list that isn't fast Razor w/ Pred spam---it registers more than 'another mech BA player'. You tend to remember the exceptions and not the rule.


All that said---I would love to see a break down of the top 10 BA lists, the top 10 SW lists, etc. That would probably be a better indicator.

I agree with Redbeard that it wasn't just mech gunline in those top armies. There were a lot of jumping BA, a fair number of SW more focused on TWC, some IG Straken horde, etc. The use of Kill Points as one of the objectives in most (all? I should check) of the missions I think was a factor, too. Three of the four lists I faced had ~9-10 KPs starting on the table, which gave my semi-meched 14kp CSM a little bit of a handicap against them. Blood of Kittens actually has photos of most (not all) of the armies from Friday on their blog. Around 250 photos. I trolled through the entire list last night, and two of my opponents weren't shown. Some armies got two photos.

As noted, the top 16 armies (at least all the ones I saw) were also significantly different from standard mech templates seen online. Tony's SW are meched, but they're meched big squads and tons of bodies; not a bunch of little units in Razors. Jay's nids had 9kps starting. The Ork list had a ton of bodies; not the more common BW build. The IG list at the top had Russes, not just hydras/manticores. I am even more firmly convinced that KPs are a critical component of 5th edition mission/list balance, and do a perceptible job of reining in the true MSU armies in competitive play, when they are actually used, and local players actually make an effort to build lists which give them an advantage in KP.

Ozymandias wrote:

whitedragon wrote:

RiTides wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:This is all interesting, but I think I speak for all of us when I ask if Dakka Detachment 2 did better overall than Dakka Detachment 1?

Sigh... wish I could've been there this year.

Seconded!

http://www.adepticon.org/?page_id=2350

Dakka Detachment 2 - 26th, 10 points behind Dakka Detachment 1!

Well that's closer than last year so watch out DD1, DD2 is creeping up!

It's cause we learn quickly, like Velociraptors.

Thanks to Tinfoil, pretre, and folks for the congratulations.

If I just got the 4 (or was it a 5) I needed on Difficult Terrain for my Oblits to reach Jay Woodcock's (Jay_DaBoyz) termagants on the last turn and drag them off an objective, I would have had the Draw in round 4 which would have seen both of us qualify for Sunday. If I had slightly better armor and cover saves on my Chosen and Terminators, I actually might have beaten or drawn him on KPs as well, taking the W and winning Overall for Friday. But that's the dice. And no credit lost from Jay. He played, as usual, an excellent game, and fielded yet another brutal Tyranid list. The guy's beaten me in tight games in three different GTs now, and is clearly a top player, whereas I remain (IMHO) second-tier.

My list, since someone asked, was:
Lash prince
lash sorc w/personal icon, jump pack (sorry 40kEnthusiast, I know I promised you last year that I'd fix him and give him wings, but I got busy working on my BA)

4 terminators w/chainfist, hvy flamer, 3x combi-meltas
5 Chosen w/3 meltas, 2 flamers, in Rhino w/combi-melta
Dreadnought w/Missile Launcher

10 CSM w/2 meltas, icon of glory, champ w/fist, in Rhino w/combi-melta
10 CSM w/2 meltas, icon of slaanesh, champ w/PW, in Rhino
5 LDs
5 LDs

5 Havocs w/icon of glory, 4x ML
2x 2 oblits
1850
-----------------
Saturday I fielded Raider BA in the team tourney, and demonstrated that I need to actually practice with an army first, as I won two, lost two. Which is probably doing okay since I played only two games with BA prior to Adepticon.

Sunday I had signed up for Combat Patrol, but realized 400pts was not going to slake my thirst for "real" games. I borrowed some of The Everliving's Raider BA as well, and my buddy Jamie/Gilgamesh's Mephiston, and fielded LR BA in the Gladiator. I managed to take 20th with it despite being near-tabled in R1 by multiple-GT-winner Shaun Kemp, also of Da Boyz, and sucking a 0/70pts that round. I got a good draw against DW the second round, and Eldar the third, and got wins in the mid-50s.

So, what did the DD1 guys field for the TT?

They fielded their Chaos Daemons lists again. And stomped a fair number of people, as they usually do.

----------------

Oh, on the Sportsmanship note, I will say that there did seem to be a bit of an issue of some folks handing out Positive marks a little too freely. Like Hulksmash, I read the sheet and scored conscientiously, giving one Positive, two Average, and one Negative to the player who tried to cheat repeatedly. I got four positive votes, but honestly I only feel I really deserved two of them. At 10pts each, Positive votes were a significant factor in Overall standings, and deserved sober consideration and conservative use. I know a few folks also got confused that the "Average" mark was physically listed at the top, then Positive, then Negative. I was there when Brian Clew (an amazing and brutal player and excellent sport, from the Blade & Bolter Boyz) apologized to my friend Jamie Hatcher (Gilgamesh) for accidentally giving him an Average score when he meant to give Positive. Jamie getting only two Positives when I got four was bit of a karmic injustice, as he is always incredibly nice, whether he's kicking your ass or getting his ass kicked; whereas I have a tendency to get a little too serious in some games.

Overall I think the Adepticon Sports system is outstanding and very simple, which is key to getting people to use it fairly. It could stand just to be phrased/explained/presented a little more clearly, at it'll be darn-near perfect.

Many, many kudos to Mattias, Hank, and everyone involved in running Adepticon. It is ridiculously awesome. I always tell everyone about it: "If you love 40k, and you go once, you will go back every year thereafter." It is just amazing.

The guys who flew all the way from Sweden are all eager to return next year, and bring more guys. I have a grudge match already set with Daniel- in his drunken trash-talking state Sunday night he swore that CSM is the weakest codex in 40k, and his BA would table me in a half hour. We were going to play Monday morning on the dining table in the Presidential Suite, but he was too tired/drunk and arrived an hour late, so we couldn't fit in even a short game before I had to leave for the airport. I have not called him a coward or the game a default, however! We have agreed to play Thursday night before next Adepticon, if he or I don't get to the other's country again before then. There's a small chance I'll be able to visit Sweden later this year, in which case we might do it there.

DD1 went all Daemons of Chaos, hard core lists.

DD2 went with themed, fluffy lists and still finished 25, which is pretty good!

Adepticon was awesome this year again, had a great time. I am really pleased with finishing 5th overall considering I didn't have a display board (would have put me in 3rd overall) and I had a raging hangover the first day of the champs.

All of my games but 1 were brutally hard, too. No gimme games, I barely won or lost all of them. Very, very tough competition, which is the way I like it!

It was awesome to see everyone from Dakka and various other sites, I really enjoy catching up with friends form around the country at these big events. Makes for a really great day.

The lists we saw in the top 16 were really varied and not what you would guess. A lot of people do well with unconventional armies, which is why you should look at the internet as a tool, not a definitive resource. Play what works for you!

Already thinking about next year. I want to take home that championship! I came close but Blood Angel (Paul Murphy) knocked me out round one of the finals in a real nail bitter of a game. As is often the case, a few die rolls here and there were what determined who won. It was really nice to meet you Paul, you are a great player. Hopefully I get a rematch in the near future!

I will be posting batreps once I have a minute to catch up with work and life.

Congrats to the winner! Tony and Mannahin did great (as did nearly all of the Dakkanoughts), will done fellas. Monster Rain went 3-0 and Crons! Woot!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On sports, I got 3 positive and 1 average from my only easy game. The guy got creamed by turn 2 because it was a horrible mission/army match up for him. I felt bad but there wasn't anything to be done about it. It stinks he dinged my sports (cost me from finishing 2nd place) but hey, it was his prerogative.

Reecius wrote:DD1 went all Daemons of Chaos, hard core lists.

DD2 went with themed, fluffy lists and still finished 25, which is pretty good!

Would've been perfect for a combo display, since all 8 of you ran Chaos.

Maybe next year?

Though, I think we(DD2) should continue running themed, fluffy stuff(I still say WD's Inq was a good choice fluffily, because it tied having so many varied regiments together). I'll fight for my spot next year.

Hey guys I am going over all the lists from the 16 and my analysis of them if anyone wants to check it out.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/04/05/adepticon-2011-pseudo-live-40k-champ-army-lists-and-anyalsis/

Article seems to be having format/editing/spellcheck/autocorrect issues, Tasty.

Reece, it was great to meet you as well.

I bet you are going to be having some Mephiston nightmares for a while

Hahaha, yeah, but I guess it was inevitable. Bjorn has killed him in every game I have played, and this time he got cut down. But hey, that's the way it goes, you played a good game and got the win, so congratz.

I think I may be building a Meph dart board, though! Hahaha!

tastytaste wrote:Hey guys I am going over all the lists from the 16 and my analysis of them if anyone wants to check it out.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/04/05/adepticon-2011-pseudo-live-40k-champ-army-lists-and-anyalsis/

From a usability perspective - is it feasible to put the lists straight into html, or embed them on the page, rather than make us click through to a pdf and then back to the blog?

Reecius wrote:Hahaha, yeah, but I guess it was inevitable. Bjorn has killed him in every game I have played, and this time he got cut down. But hey, that's the way it goes, you played a good game and got the win, so congratz.

I think I may be building a Meph dart board, though! Hahaha!

List of things to bring every time I face Reece:

1. Pulsa Rokkits
2. Mephiston

@Platuan4th

Hahahaha, that is the perfect storm of suck for me!

Reecius wrote:DD1 went all Daemons of Chaos, hard core lists.

DD2 went with themed, fluffy lists and still finished 25, which is pretty good!

I'm sorry, did Reece 'Bjorn' Reecius just call our Daemons lists hard core?

Really?



As always, Adepticon was a blast. I wimped out - I decided to play Fantasy on Friday, and avoid the 40k Championships in their first year of the new incarnation, so as to avoid any drama. There was no drama; the event ran extremely smoothly, and sounds like everyone had a blast. I enjoyed Fantasy, but I could have saved myself 2 months of frantic skaven-painting, and played 40k instead.

Saturday was the team tournament, which is the primary reason (for me) to attend. I love the format, I really enjoy playing with my teammates, and our now-classic rivalries make the event hilarious.

Sunday was a "give back" day - I helped staff the (newly downsized) Gladiator, which went fairly well. We had some people show up and start building lists at the Army Builder station very late, which cost us 30 minutes off the start (and 15 minutes off of rounds 2 & 3 as a result), and we had some data entry issues at the end of round 1 (score reversals), but most people seemed to take it in stride.

Sunday night was the poker tournament, where a swede took most of my chips, and I ended up dealing (which was better, anyway - all the fun of interacting with the people, and none of the stress).

I played against Meph two other times in the champs and Bjorn took him out the first two times. I guess third time was a charm fro Meph as he cut the old man in two!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Janthkin wrote:

Reecius wrote:DD1 went all Daemons of Chaos, hard core lists.

DD2 went with themed, fluffy lists and still finished 25, which is pretty good!

I'm sorry, did Reece 'Bjorn' Reecius just call our Daemons lists hard core?

Really?

Hey Yak said you guys took the most competitive lists you could! DD1 was using Ogryn, foot Guard, Chaos Dreads, Khorne Daemon Princes, and Yarrick!

Janthkin wrote:

Reecius wrote:DD1 went all Daemons of Chaos, hard core lists.

DD2 went with themed, fluffy lists and still finished 25, which is pretty good!

I'm sorry, did Reece 'Bjorn' Reecius just call our Daemons lists hard core?

Really?

Well, we (DD2) did bring a Hades drill. On the other hand, I'm not ashamed. I brought a winged Khorne Demon Prince, so that evens us out on the "cheese" factor. All the way up until the registration on saturday morning I wrestled with the decision to include Abaddon (and everyone wanted me to), but I declined in the last minute. :(

It probably would have been epic to see if Yarrick + Ogryns could rack up a better tally then Abby!

whitedragon wrote:

Janthkin wrote:

Reecius wrote:DD1 went all Daemons of Chaos, hard core lists.

DD2 went with themed, fluffy lists and still finished 25, which is pretty good!

I'm sorry, did Reece 'Bjorn' Reecius just call our Daemons lists hard core?

Really?

Well, we (DD2) did bring a Hades drill. On the other hand, I'm not ashamed. I brought a winged Khorne Demon Prince, so that evens us out on the "cheese" factor. All the way up until the registration on saturday morning I wrestled with the decision to include Abaddon (and everyone wanted me to), but I declined in the last minute. :(

It probably would have been epic to see if Yarrick + Ogryns could rack up a better tally then Abby!

Seriously, if the Botcon set this year wasn't so WIN, I'd feel like I made the wrong choice of which one to go to(I can always re-take these classes later, right?).

Congrats again to all.

I've been a Space Wolf player for around 16 years now (since the days of 2nd edition) and it warms my heart to see this young blood claw winning some of the best tournaments in the country using my favorite Space Marine Chapter.

Now, I hope he answers Dash's Space Wolf Challenge and puts that upstart Dark Eldar commander in his place for the Glory of Russ!

A few semi-random thoughts...

It used to be about 1/3rd SM armies at UKGTs when CSM were awesome and IG were crap.

The lower proportion at Adepticon probably reflects CSM being knocked back a bit and IG becoming Awesome.

Having lots of KP missions is good for balancing the tournament unless you are a Tau player. Tau are sadly disadvantaged by the current KP rules.

The fact that the top players were using “tier one” codexes with their own, not netlist, lists, arguably shows that they correctly identify the top tier codexes as the strongest, and want to maximise their advantage by playing a list that suits their individual style.

To flip that comment, playing a top tier netlist doesn’t benefit a player as much as knowing their army inside out, but a strong codex has a built in advantage.

The organisation of the event as described by Matthias sounds first rate.

Everyone seems to have had a great time.
!

Not to disparage Doug's winning list, but is it legal for Nobz in boyz mobs to take special weapons? I wasn't aware this was the case. Could someone point me to the discussion or clarification about this?

Glad to see da boyz take the top seat, in any case. Congrats to Mann and Reecius as well!

GrimTeef wrote:Not to disparage Doug's winning list, but is it legal for Nobz in boyz mobs to take special weapons? I wasn't aware this was the case. Could someone point me to the discussion or clarification about this?

It is legal.

Boy gets Slugga and Choppa.
Boy upgrades to Nob with slugga/choppa
For every ten in the mob, one ork may trade slugga or shoota for rokkit, so now you've got a nob with rokkit/choppa
Nob my replace choppa with powerklaw, yielding nob with rokkit/powerklaw.

Not that it gives a lot of benefit, until you're down to the last few models, anyway. Unlike the OLD codex, you can't get an additional special gun in the squad by giving one to the Nob.

It does mean that you have one more attack from the boyz, that's one fewer boy to give up his extra weapon. But, it also means you lose that extra upgrade faster to jaws/vindicares/mind wars.

Reece wins personal hero, 2010/ 2011.