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there are always exceptions

You don't think their behavior in this movie qualifies as an exception?

Rodriguez's character (amongst the soldiers) was the only one I could remember who didn't look enthusiastic at the prospect of genocide.

The soldiers in this one were harsh, but in the movie, it basically showed that one idiot soldier who just shouted stupid gak all the time. Many of the mercenaries were faceless and were not depicted as evil except that they were fighting the "noble" blue people. But the thing that did the movie in for me was the, IMO, blatant attack on coal and Big corperations.
Which is also the reason why i refuse to see cars 2. Ive read that the plot is that BIG OIL companies try to create a natural disaster that looks like it was the alternative energy source companies fault in an effort to frame them. I mean, come on pixar, at least Avatar was SORT OF subtle about its bashing. absolutely disgusting, hollywood is becoming sickeningly liberal.


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The soldiers in this one were harsh, but in the movie, it basically showed that one idiot soldier who just shouted stupid gak all the time. Many of the mercenaries were faceless and were not depicted as evil except that they were fighting the "noble" blue people. But the thing that did the movie in for me was the, IMO, blatant attack on coal and Big corperations.
Which is also the reason why i refuse to see cars 2. Ive read that the plot is that BIG OIL companies try to create a natural disaster that looks like it was the alternative energy source companies fault in an effort to frame them. I mean, come on pixar, at least Avatar was SORT OF subtle about its bashing. absolutely disgusting, hollywood is becoming sickeningly liberal.

bushido wrote:You don't think their behavior in this movie qualifies as an exception?

Rodriguez's character (amongst the soldiers) was the only one I could remember who didn't look enthusiastic at the prospect of genocide.

humans are evil little bastards

bushido wrote:Rodriguez's character (amongst the soldiers) was the only one I could remember who didn't look enthusiastic at the prospect of genocide.

And her character arc was not fleshed out at all. Her turning traitor was a convenience to the plot more than a natural transition from merc pilot to fighting her former comrades. They needed her to turn against them for plot convenience so she did.

yeah, without her, they never would have gotten out of the base.

dajobe wrote:The soldiers in this one were harsh, but in the movie, it basically showed that one idiot soldier who just shouted stupid gak all the time. Many of the mercenaries were faceless and were not depicted as evil except that they were fighting the "noble" blue people. But the thing that did the movie in for me was the, IMO, blatant attack on coal and Big corperations.
Which is also the reason why i refuse to see cars 2. Ive read that the plot is that BIG OIL companies try to create a natural disaster that looks like it was the alternative energy source companies fault in an effort to frame them. I mean, come on pixar, at least Avatar was SORT OF subtle about its bashing. absolutely disgusting, hollywood is becoming sickeningly liberal.

Wait, I think I saw a South Park episode about this. The boys wrote a book and put as much disgusting crap as they could in it. Everyone brought their own baggage into it and convinced themselves that it was some deep philosophical treatise on their personal beliefs. When, end the end, it was just a book about infected orifices, bodily fluids, and bowel movements.

The Tale of Scroty McBoogerballs. They were caught so blamed it on Butters due to their paranoia, then everyone took the tale as being a deep philosophical message on par with The Lord of The Flies and Of Mice and Men.

it can be looked at in such a way for avatar, but do you disagree with the Cars 2 thing?and there are definite examples of people reading into things to much. I saw a history channel show, saying how Star Wars was like the Odessy and was based upon a great deal of mythology? come on History Channel, he wrote a story about fighting in space, a great one, but i doubt he connected it with the odessy. But as for Avatar and Cars 2, i believe deliberate connections were made, you can disagree if you like, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I am just stating mine.

also, that episode of South Park is hilarious.

bushido wrote:Rodriguez's character (amongst the soldiers) was the only one I could remember who didn't look enthusiastic at the prospect of genocide.

It's not genocide if they're not humans.

I don't think that humans owe any special duty to non-human species.

i am partially with you, i think if the species is sentient and can reason and arent a bunch of Dbags then we can be nice, but the NA'VI in the movie were uncompromising. But i think humans should always put humans first

dajobe wrote: But i think humans should always put humans first

biccat wrote:

bushido wrote:Rodriguez's character (amongst the soldiers) was the only one I could remember who didn't look enthusiastic at the prospect of genocide.

It's not genocide if they're not humans.

I don't think that humans owe any special duty to non-human species.

Well if they taste good we indeed owe a special duty of careful preparation when cooking them.

Frazzled wrote:

biccat wrote:

bushido wrote:Rodriguez's character (amongst the soldiers) was the only one I could remember who didn't look enthusiastic at the prospect of genocide.

It's not genocide if they're not humans.

I don't think that humans owe any special duty to non-human species.

Well if they taste good we indeed owe a special duty of careful preparation when cooking them.

My favorite meal is Baby-Back Na'vi Ribs....from baby Na'vis.

Falls right off the bones!

dajobe wrote: But the thing that did the movie in for me was the, IMO, blatant attack on coal and Big corperations.

Yeah, because coal and big corporations are our friends. Mhm, yep. Drill, baby, drill. And who gives a gak about fething up the only planet we have, anyway?





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dajobe wrote: But i think humans should always put humans first

So, is destroying an entire world for a profit justifiable if it "benefits humanity"? Murdering thousands of innocent beings? Destroying natural beauty for the sake of a good quarterly report?

rubiksnoob wrote:

dajobe wrote: But the thing that did the movie in for me was the, IMO, blatant attack on coal and Big corperations.

Yeah, because coal and big corporations are our friends. Mhm, yep. Drill, baby, drill. And who gives a gak about fething up the only planet we have, anyway?





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dajobe wrote: But i think humans should always put humans first

So, is destroying an entire world for a profit justifiable if it "benefits humanity"? Murdering thousands of innocent beings? Destroying natural beauty for the sake of a good quarterly report?

Humans do this... Get use to it like I did.

Humans also steal ideas from others... Cartman wrote the book "dances with the smurfs" and James Cameron stole the idea

Humans do a lot of nasty things. Not sure if we should be proud of it, though.

I wonder if someday on an advanced alien world a bunch of alien nerds will be debating if their race sould have exterminated the savage and inferior humans of earth?

I wonder if they will make a movie about it?

CT GAMER wrote:I wonder if someday on an advanced alien world a bunch of alien nerds will be debating if their race sould have exterminated the savage and inferior humans of earth?

I wonder if they will make a movie about it?

I suspect they will all agree it was for the best.

htj wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:I wonder if someday on an advanced alien world a bunch of alien nerds will be debating if their race sould have exterminated the savage and inferior humans of earth?

I wonder if they will make a movie about it?

I suspect they will all agree it was for the best.

only if we have masses of Unobtainium!

Just send in 50 Vindicare assassins and the war is won (40k style) or normal drop a NUC!!!!!

black templar wrote:Just send in 50 Vindicare assassins and the war is won (40k style) or normal drop a NUC!!!!!

What's a nuc? is it like a nuke?

yer

dajobe wrote:The soldiers in this one were harsh, but in the movie, it basically showed that one idiot soldier who just shouted stupid gak all the time. Many of the mercenaries were faceless and were not depicted as evil except that they were fighting the "noble" blue people. But the thing that did the movie in for me was the, IMO, blatant attack on coal and Big corperations.

The idea that companies do very bad things in search of their own profits is hardly a liberal idea, it's more a widely recognised part of reality.

Your complaint makes about as much sense as someone saying that a scene of government bureaucracy was politically motivated, and they're so sick of seeing rightwing propaganda in movies.


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dajobe wrote:I saw a history channel show, saying how Star Wars was like the Odessy and was based upon a great deal of mythology? come on History Channel, he wrote a story about fighting in space, a great one, but i doubt he connected it with the odessy.

This dude called Joseph Campbell wrote a bunch of stuff studying myths in the 40s and 50s, with his most famous work being 'The Hero of a Thousand Faces'. He had this idea that myths across societies had a lot in common, certain archtypes always showed up, the hero typically underwent certain activities in his journey.

Lucas read a lot from Campbell, and followed it all very closely. His Star Wars trilogy followed the framework laid out by Campbell very closely.


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bushido wrote:And *this* mentality strikes me as a little odd. When the soldiers are so blatantly depicted as the bad guys, it's not ok to root against them because they are "American military?" Never mind that it's a work of fiction and the audience is supposed to cheer for the protagonists.

It's been a really common complaint about the movie, and really, it just makes no damn sense. I don't think the complaint is about soldiers being killed, we see that in movie after movie... I don't remember anyone ever complaining about all those Burmese soldiers getting slaughtered Rambo IV. I think it's really about the soldiers involved being very tightly aligned with the US, as they seemed to all be ex-US troops.

I'm left wondering if this reaction against Avatar wouldn't have happened if the soldiers involved were more of a league of nations, drafted from a variety of militaries.

Well Cameron does have a theme in his films of corporation = evil running throughout his oeuvre with all the subtlety of a hand grenade in a bowl of oatmeal.

i think people need to tone down on the whole "America is BAD, corporations are BAD" thing.

yes, JC does have a pet hate in corporations, but I don't think it extends to the US military. the guys were mercs, part of a PMC. a PMC is a corporation.

as to the subject of the completely american cast. it's holywood, since when did holywood give a damn about non-US actors? unless its the villain (the good old top hat, monocle wearing, twirly moustache posh bloke) or James bond.

the movie itself? i thought it was okay. the highlights was the really shiny GFX and the acting from Sam Worthington. i don't know what it is about that guy but he is a really good actor. but the story was as most people pointed out, pretty basic and unoriginal. i pretty much guessed all major plot points about 10 minutes into the film.

but i think the main point was i left the cinema feeling that it was money well spent. it was a really good showcase for modern 3D and the action scenes were pretty cool.

and i noticed similarities between all the hate for Avatar and hate for ultramarines. both were criticised for being blue (hence lots of smurf jokes), and both are quite popular with the mainstream. am i detected a little elitism here?

Ahtman wrote:Well Cameron does have a theme in his films of corporation = evil running throughout his oeuvre with all the subtlety of a hand grenade in a bowl of oatmeal.

Absolutely. If the complaints were just that it was heavy handed and obvious, then it'd be more reasonable, albeit still a little weird given we're talking about big budget Hollywood here... "I went and saw the latest $200 million action movie and I was disappointed it wasn't subtle"?!

Meanwhile, Transformer II had a painfully obvious theme of a stupid, bungling US government (actually explicitly mentioned as the Obama administration) that wanted to negotiate with the Decepticons, and just generally getting in the way of the soldiers who knew exactly what needed to be done. The film ultimately approved of those soldiers disobeying the orders of its government to go and do whatever it was, I can't remember it was all so stupid. Point being, I don't remember anyone complaining about that stupidly heavyhanded piece of Hollywood morality, or it's obvious rightwing undertones.

I've been told this theme is just as obvious in the new movie. But there's still no complaint.

But plenty of folk pick up on Avatar's anti-colonialism, and use it to complain about Hollywood leftwing politics...

sebster wrote:I've been told this theme is just as obvious in the new movie. But there's still no complaint.

I'll complain about it.

airsoftmanic wrote:and i noticed similarities between all the hate for Avatar and hate for ultramarines. both were criticised for being blue (hence lots of smurf jokes), and both are quite popular with the mainstream. am i detected a little elitism here?

For a bunch of people who are presumably outside the norm and really imaginative, nerds are really predictable. One thing is for certain, if a typical nerd property like an effects heavy sci-fi film manages to cross over and make a lot of mainstream money, you can bet the nerds will be lining up to declare how much they hated it.


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Ahtman wrote:I'll complain about it.

I would too but I'm not going to see the movie

Well, not because of that being in the movie. If a movie celebrating the military and booing the government was enough for me to not enjoy it, I'd have to miss out on about half of all action movies (more if you expand the theme to celebrating violence and booing restraint or any control then you'd be looking at about 95% of all action movies). Nah, I won't be watching TFIII because the second movie was really bad on almost every level.

rubiksnoob wrote:

dajobe wrote: But the thing that did the movie in for me was the, IMO, blatant attack on coal and Big corperations.

Yeah, because coal and big corporations are our friends. Mhm, yep. Drill, baby, drill. And who gives a gak about fething up the only planet we have, anyway?





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dajobe wrote: But i think humans should always put humans first

So, is destroying an entire world for a profit justifiable if it "benefits humanity"? Murdering thousands of innocent beings? Destroying natural beauty for the sake of a good quarterly report?

I am all about researching to find a new REALISTIC main source of energy, and many places are, but until then we need power, and coal provides 90% of it. And what corperation is your "friend", all corperations are out to make money, and many of them are in area's that are unliked by the public. My family has worked in the coal industry for a while now, and I know that the coal corperations are depicted MUCH too harshly by the media, and all of the dinkpods of the world follow blindly.

and yes, i dont give one flying feth about the blue people