Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Nothing, in general, I have one too. His sloppy half-assed attempt just offends me.

he would look better if it was longer and had a good handlebar stach to go with it

forruner_mercy wrote:

Omegus wrote:His goatee makes me want to commit violence.

Whats wrong with a gotee?

EVERYTHING.

I don't know.

Goatees seem to be a love-hate style. you either love em or you absolutly detest them.


I never have had the courage to grow one. I fear my family would forcefully remove it during my sleep.

1hadhq wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:
Either way, I wish people would leave the color blue out of this.

Leave blue out? but but ultramarines blue.......

- CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT commander Purplefood put a nice interpretation of that "i am blue" song in here,
- The old paintscheme was also sort of baby-blue and drove certainly some people off.

I do my best.

Ward does have the most epic douchebag facial hair ever.

Ultramarines are undoubtedly a successful chapter, no one denies that (Well, except the most biased haters), generally people just have a problem with the "presentation," I think.

It's not grimdark not to have some overwhelming flaw or failure.

Omegus wrote:It's not grimdark not to have some overwhelming flaw or failure.

I take more issue with chapters choosing not to emulate them and Guilliman in particular being consideried aberrants, with flawed gene-seeds.

Portraying Ultramarines as an ultimately noble, heroic force that can be considered the ideal of the Imperium? That's cool.

Portraying them as so super special that to not emulate them is due to mutation or quirk of gene-seed? Nah man, that's not cool.

Though the Space Wolves deserve to die, the bastards. I don't understand their appeal.

Though this is arguably more of a Ward thing, at least as I understand it. Admittedly would have to read an older codex to be sure.

I wasn't aware that those who chose not to follow the codex had an issue with their gene-seed. The Black Templar, for example, do so, but their gene-seed is not suspect... just their loyalties.

And the Space Dogs totally deserve to die. All of them. Painfully. And then again in the Warp. More painfully.

Omegus wrote:I wasn't aware that those who chose not to follow the codex had an issue with their gene-seed. The Black Templar, for example, do so, but their gene-seed is not suspect... just their loyalties.

And the Space Dogs totally deserve to die. All of them. Painfully. And then again in the Warp. More painfully.

"The third and final group are aberrants; Chapters who,
through quirk of gene-seed, mutation or stubbornness,
eschew the Codex Astartes in favour of other structural and
combat doctrines. Some, such as the Blood Angels and their
successors, strive to be worthy of Guilliman's legacy, but their
recalcitrant gene-seed drives them ever further from it.
Others, such as the Space Wolves and the Black Templars,
remain stubbornly independent, looking to their own
founder's ways of war and caring little of how they fare in
the eyes of others. These aberrant Chapters were always few
in number and their presence diminishes further with each
passing decade, for their gene-seed is no longer the source
of fresh Chapters. Such divergent Chapters play little part in
this volume, for this is the tale of the Ultramarines, and all
those who follow their example."
- Space Marine codex, page 24

Eh, I dislike the wording, and the implications of gene-seed inferiority, although in the case of the Blood Angels, this is technically true. It also seems heavy-handed in terms of Ultramarine support to me, to be honest. Though frankly, I think Ward in general is a crappy writer, not a fluff writer, but kind of a crappy writer in general. His mechanics are pretty solid though, admittedly.

I actually don't hate Ultramarines. I have a soft spot for Telion in particular, dude is a BAMF.

I also like to think I mostly have avoided the Ward-hate bandwagon, I dislike some of the things he has written, but I don't hate the man or wish ill-will towards him, only his goatee. Though that may change when the Necron codex comes out.

And yeah, not read A Thousand Sons, but I already don't like the Space Wolves, and if they were to get wiped out, well, that would be just fine with me lol.

Void__Dragon wrote:The third and final group are aberrants; Chapters who,
through quirk of gene-seed, mutation or stubbornness,
eschew the Codex Astartes in favour of other structural and
combat doctrines.

That's a pretty important "or".

But yes, a lot of the Ultra-hate is Ward's fault, because he went overboard in gushing all over them. Like for example, the old fluff for Tigurius (sp?) described him as "one of the most powerful psykers in the Imperium". Ward copy&pasted the whole fluff piece, but changed it to be "the most powerful psyker in the Imperium". And all his writing is terrible. His crunch is more internally balanced than say Cruddance, but it is horrendously written as evidenced by the size of the accompanying FAQs and rules flame threads.

"These aberrant Chapters were always few
in number and their presence diminishes further with each
passing decade, for their gene-seed is no longer the source
of fresh Chapters."

This part in particular implies that there is something inherently wrong with all of them.

Successors tend to be quite loyal to their parent Chapter, so that could also be interpreted as them simply not allowing non-complaint Chapters to have successors to avoid potentially treacherous curs from multiplying. Magnus did the world a favor by destroying the Wolves' experiment in creating viable successors.

Sorry, did not catch your edit in time.

Yeah, Tigurius, lol. Was the implication that he can tap into the Hive Mind there before Ward? Because a friend of mine is a Tyranid player, and he froths with nerd-rage at the mere mention of Tigurius. And yeah, as a Chief Librarian Tigurius should obviously have few rivals in terms of psykers in the Imperium, but the codex does make it pretty blatant Ward intended him to be numero uno.

Oh yeah, wasn't there a big concern with the Grey Knights codex having a rule that seriously made Tau players unable to do crap to GK players? Something about them being able to tell Plasma weapons to sit down and shut up, and since Plasma, unlike Melta, is not a specific weapon type, and most of Tau weaponry is plasma based... Yeah. Although I did not read much of the GK codex, I mostly just read a few of the fluff descriptions of units, checked out the Dreadknight (Which is obviously a rip-off of Dexter's Laboratory), and then read Kaldor Draigo's fluff entry. I proceeded to stop reading the codex, punched my cat, and took a nap (I did not actually punch my cat).

Edit: Oh, and yeah, you may be right about the "aberrant" chapter successors thing. And Magnus did that huh? Cool deal.

2nd edition Ultramarines codex had like three sentences of fluff for all of the characters. Tyranids are not mentioned.

3rd edition Space Marines codex just had a brief story about him approaching Calgar and saying, "I had a powerful premonition last eve and dreamed a strange dream. I saw a beast rise from the depths, a foul abomination so vast in its hunger that it consumed whole worlds. I dreamed I saw the Emperor, crowned in light as he was in the days of the Crusade, bestriding the galaxy. His sword rested upon Macragge." When Calgar asked him what the hell all that meant, Tigurius said, "The Beast rises from the deeps of the void, the Eastern Fringe I believe. The Emperor has appeared directly, indicating that no other help can be expected. The battle shall be at Macragge, so ready all your warriors and your ships and wait."

In the 4th edition book, they state that Tigurius was always about premonition, "possessed of knowledge that goes beyond the towering data stacks of the Chapter Librarius" and that "there is little that happens that Tigurius does not seem to know". He's been stopping Ork crusades before they begin for decades. The relevant piece says the following:

His predictions about [the Tyranid] movements and intents have been so accurate, that it would appear he has tapped into the Tyranid gestalt consciousness, the very Hive Mind itself. If this is true then Tigurius will have proved himself one of the most powerful psykers in the Imperium as lesser individuals have been driven mad by the mere shadow of the Hive Mind.

In the 5th edition book, this is changed to:

His predictions about their movements have been so accurate that it would appear he has tapped into the Tyranid Hive Mind - a feat that has driven lesser individuals quite mad. if this is true then Tigurius will have proved himself the most powerful psyker in the Imperium.

So Ward's re-writing is very similar, but uses stronger language. In the original piece, even the Shadow drives men crazy, and it reads more along the lines of, "man, that guy is so damn good he could be accessing the Hive mind." With Ward, accessing the Hive Mind is totally possible if you're strong enough, and Tigurius is apparently strong enough.


-----


As for the GK nerfing Tau, that's a bit of an exaggeration. The wargear in question is a piece of Wargear that makes plasma weapons fired within 12" of it count as BS1. The FAQ ruled that any pulse weapons were plasma weapons. It honestly isn't that big a deal, as very few people will be taking an Ordo Xenos inquisitor anyway since the HQ slots are so competitive, and even if they do, it's only 12".

Omegus wrote:2nd edition Ultramarines codex had like three sentences of fluff for all of the characters.

3rd edition Space Marines codex just had a brief story about him approaching Calgar and saying, "I had a powerful premonition last eve and dreamed a strange dream. I saw a beast rise from the depths, a foul abomination so vast in its hunger that it consumed whole worlds. I dreamed I saw the Emperor, crowned in light as he was in the days of the Crusade, bestriding the galaxy. His sword rested upon Macragge." When Calgar asked him what the hell all that meant, Tigurius said, "The Beast rises from the deeps of the void, the Eastern Fringe I believe. The Emperor has appeared directly, indicating that no other help can be expected. The battle shall be at Macragge, so ready all your warriors and your ships and wait."

In the 4th edition book, they state that Tigurius was always about premonition, "possessed of knowledge that goes beyond the towering data stacks of the Chapter Librarius" and that "there is little that happens that Tigurius does not seem to know". He's been stopping Ork crusades before they begin for decades. The relevant piece says the following:

His predictions about [the Tyranid] movements and intents have been so accurate, that it would appear he has tapped into the Tyranid gestalt consciousness, the very Hive Mind itself. If this is true then Tigurius will have proved himself one of the most powerful psykers in the Imperium as lesser individuals have been driven mad by the mere shadow of the Hive Mind.

In the 5th edition book, this is changed to:

His predictions about their movements have been so accurate that it would appear he has tapped into the Tyranid Hive Mind - a feat that has driven lesser individuals quite mad. if this is true then Tigurius will have proved himself the most powerful psyker in the Imperium.

So Ward's re-writing is very similar, but uses stronger language. In the original piece, even the Shadow drives men crazy, and it reads more along the lines of, "man, that guy is so damn good he could be accessing the Hive mind." With Ward, accessing the Hive Mind is totally possible if you're strong enough, and Tigurius is apparently strong enough.


-----


As for the GK nerfing Tau, that's a bit of an exaggeration. The wargear in question is a piece of Wargear that makes plasma weapons fired within 12" of it count as BS1. The FAQ ruled that any pulse weapons were plasma weapons. It honestly isn't that big a deal, as very few people will be taking an Ordo Xenos inquisitor anyway since the HQ slots are so competitive, and even if they do, it's only 12".

Ah, cool, thanks for the information.

Yeah, that is Ward's thing, his writing is... Well, in this case, it is clearly meant to portray Tiguriius as the ultimate psyker in the Imperium, you are right in describing his writing as using "strong" language, that is kind of a problem IMO, from what I have read. Although it is not the problem with Draigo, "Burned down the Garden of Nurgle" sounds stupid no matter your prose.

Huh, I see.

Yeah, that is not a big deal.

Since if a squad of Grey Knights is that close to the Tau, the Tau are pretty much dead anyway.

Draigo is ridiculous. The things he accomplishes are literally impossible, unless he suddenly became Super Saiyan 4 and The One, all at the same time. I mean, he tears down the Impossible City until no brick is left standing. This is a city that is constantly shifting and rebuilding itself anew all day, every day. Seriously, WTF? I treat his fluff blurb as just overblown fantasy told to novitiates as a bedtime story. Either that, or it is standard issue "relaxation" reading material because porn is not allowed on Titan.


As for Magnus, I'm talking about the events that took place in Battle for the Fang:

Do not forget, the Impossible City is in the middle of the Infinite Labyrinth. HE HAD TO SOLVE IT TO GET THERE. Also, he effortlessly made M'kaechen look like a tool in doing so. From what I hear, M'kaechen is basically the Tzeentch equivelant of Doombreed, aka, the strongest servant Tzeentch has. Even if he isn't, Draigo also beat N'kari, who I am almost positive is Slaanesh's most powerful servant. The dude is literally the strongest being short of the deities like Chaos Gods or C'tan themselves... And even that may be suspect.

Ah delicious spoilers!

I dislike the likening of the Space Wolves to South Park Russel Crowe though, they are not nearly that awesome.

Magnus seems pretty cool... And the Space Wolves seem really stupid. =\

Edit: Hold on, something just occurred to me.

Doesn't the status of the Garden of Nurgle, directly correlate with Nurgle's power?

Draigo "burned it down."

...... My God, Draigo defeated Nurgle.

WARD NEEDS TO THINK ABOUT THE CRAP HE WRITES AND THE IMPLICATIONS HIS WRITING HAS.

I'm surprised he didn't manage to knock up Isha while he was burning down Nurgle's garden. Then Ward would be all set to write his next game destroying codex to outclass even the 7th edition Fantasy Daemons book.

Codex: Son of Draigo



Be afraid, be very afraid.

Omegus wrote:I'm surprised he didn't manage to knock up Isha while he was burning down Nurgle's garden. Then Ward would be all set to write his next game destroying codex to outclass even the 7th edition Fantasy Daemons book.

Codex: Son of Draigo



Be afraid, be very afraid.

Oh yeah, WHF Daemons by Ward was incredibly broken, or so I heard.

But the thing is, if someone were to use an Avatar of Khaine as a CCW... Well that would not surprise me at all.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Omegus wrote:I'm surprised he didn't manage to knock up Isha while he was burning down Nurgle's garden. Then Ward would be all set to write his next game destroying codex to outclass even the 7th edition Fantasy Daemons book.

Codex: Son of Draigo



Be afraid, be very afraid.

Oh yeah, WHF Daemons by Ward was incredibly broken, or so I heard.

But the thing is, if someone were to use an Avatar of Khaine as a CCW... Well that would not surprise me at all.

Nah, he is using the avatar as a ranged weapon.

yeah, Str D ranged weapon is OP for Mat Ward.

you need a Str10 weapon with 2d6 armor penetration for ranged attacks.

StrD, as in Draigo, is for CC pwnage.

Void__Dragon wrote:Ward does have the most epic douchebag facial hair ever.

Ultramarines are undoubtedly a successful chapter, no one denies that (Well, except the most biased haters), generally people just have a problem with the "presentation," I think.

This right here. The Ultramarines rank as my second favorite chapter (number one belongs to the Imperial Fists), and even I dont like how they are presented.

forruner_mercy wrote:
This right here. The Ultramarines rank as my second favorite chapter (number one belongs to the Imperial Fists), and even I dont like how they are presented.

The Imperial Fists are so hard to hate though. They're good guys who don't get a lot of attention by GW and defended Terra. Great fortification experts too. My first army were fists.

carbonpillow wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:
This right here. The Ultramarines rank as my second favorite chapter (number one belongs to the Imperial Fists), and even I dont like how they are presented.

The Imperial Fists are so hard to hate though. They're good guys who don't get a lot of attention by GW and defended Terra. Great fortification experts too. My first army were fists.

If I ever break down and do another SM army I probably will do fists or their angrier cousins.

Wardragoon wrote:

carbonpillow wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:
This right here. The Ultramarines rank as my second favorite chapter (number one belongs to the Imperial Fists), and even I dont like how they are presented.

The Imperial Fists are so hard to hate though. They're good guys who don't get a lot of attention by GW and defended Terra. Great fortification experts too. My first army were fists.

If I ever break down and do another SM army I probably will do fists or their angrier cousins.

I like the yellow more then the blue and red (you are talking about the Crimson Fists, right?).

carbonpillow wrote:The Imperial Fists are so hard to hate though. They're good guys who don't get a lot of attention by GW and defended Terra. Great fortification experts too. My first army were fists.

Debatable. They certainly got schooled in proper fortifications in the Iron Cage. And the only reason the Imperial Palace held as long as it did is because they had an IW Warsmith helping them shore up their defenses. Of course, it didn't help that the Lion practically handed the keys to the palace to the Traitors. What a maroon.

forruner_mercy wrote:

Wardragoon wrote:

carbonpillow wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:
This right here. The Ultramarines rank as my second favorite chapter (number one belongs to the Imperial Fists), and even I dont like how they are presented.

The Imperial Fists are so hard to hate though. They're good guys who don't get a lot of attention by GW and defended Terra. Great fortification experts too. My first army were fists.

If I ever break down and do another SM army I probably will do fists or their angrier cousins.

I like the yellow more then the blue and red (you are talking about the Crimson Fists, right?).

Imperial fists, and ya thats alot of the reason for me, though the color for Deathwing is pretty good too imo

They wear Blue... Blue went out of fashion circa M36

AvatarForm wrote:They wear Blue... Blue went out of fashion circa M36

>_>