What good things have Ultramarines done?

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**AlmightyWalrus**

Lynata wrote:The Aqueduct?

Well played, sir, well played!

**Fifty**

Brother Coa wrote:-Saving the Imperium by providing fighting men after Heresy.
-Sharing their geneseed with everyone.
-Providing good life to citizens of their planets.
-Have the ability to work with non-Humans.
-Holding down the Tyranid advance.

Like someone here said: they represent the Emperor's vision of civilized galaxy. And his vision of a true Space Marine, loyal to him - but also to the people of the Imperium ( never saw or heard of Ultramarines abandoning civilians ).

This all fits the America theory too.

Sharing their geneseed - well there are more than a few bastard offspring in the UK due to overpaid, oversexed and over here Yanks.
Providing a good life to their cits - at the expense of other countries, sure!
Ability to work with non-humans - well, modify that to non-Americans and look at Nike sweatshops in Indonesia, electronics manufacturers in China and so on, sure!
Holding down the Tyranid advance. Well, sure if you go with the theory that Viet Nam was a draw, and it held back the advance of Communism!

**purplefood**

Uhh Fifty just so you know you sound a little bit paranoid and IMO a touch racist... others may disagree however...

**htj**

purplefood wrote:Uhh Fifty just so you know you sound a little bit paranoid and IMO a touch racist... others may disagree however...

I disagree. He sounds xenophobic, not racist.

**purplefood**

htj wrote:
purplefood wrote:Uhh Fifty just so you know you sound a little bit paranoid and IMO a touch racist... others may disagree however...

I disagree. He sounds xenophobic, not racist.

Of course...

**Fifty**

So now it is not okay to be mean to Ultramarines? Dakka has changed.

**Brother Coa**

Fifty wrote:So now it is not okay to be mean to Ultramarines? Dakka has changed.

That's called: "civilized behavior"
When you can control your emotions and such...
We lose it pretty much here ( like me in a Tau fan fiction threads ) but we are pretty civil from time to time...

**purplefood**

Fifty wrote:So now it is not okay to be mean to Ultramarines? Dakka has changed.

Oh it's fine to be mean to them. By all acounts do what you like. It's just others may disagree with your views...

**Luna Dragon**

DAaddict wrote:
NEGATIVE TRANSLATION:

1. Coming in to pick up the pieces after conveniently missing the majority of the actual fighting
2. Imposing their will on the banged up remanants of the other legions.
3. -sic- Read the above.
4. True, very true.

The first three can be read as good things - by UM-loyalists - or bad things - by everyone who begrudgingly follows the "or else" nature.

As a fluff answer I believe that some of the post-heresy "traitors" are traitors because they at some point refused to embrace the only true way, the
Ultramarine way.

The fact that they stopped a tyrannid invasion dead in its tracks is an undisputed great accomplishment.

GO AWAY YOU STINKING TROLL!

**purplefood**

Luna Dragon wrote:
DAaddict wrote:
NEGATIVE TRANSLATION:

1. Coming in to pick up the pieces after conveniently missing the majority of the actual fighting
2. Imposing their will on the banged up remanants of the other legions.
3. -sic- Read the above.
4. True, very true.

The first three can be read as good things - by UM-loyalists - or bad things - by everyone who begrudgingly follows the "or else" nature.

As a fluff answer I believe that some of the post-heresy "traitors" are traitors because they at some point refused to embrace the only true way, the
Ultramarine way.

The fact that they stopped a tyrannid invasion dead in its tracks is an undisputed great accomplishment.

GO AWAY YOU STINKING TROLL!

He isn't really trolling...

**Brother Coa**

purplefood wrote:
He isn't really trolling...

Then let me correct that: stop LYING!!!

**purplefood**

Brother Coa wrote:
purplefood wrote:
He isn't really trolling...

Then let me correct that: stop LYING!!!

He also isn't lying... he clearly wrote that it is a negative interpretation.

**Goddard**

What the hell happened to this thread?

**Kommissar Kel**

Making an entire sector Tithe grade: Adeptus nons.

That alone makes them beloved by citizens in their protectorate: "You mean we only have to pay like 1/10th the taxes normally required, and we only have to pay them to the UM? Awesome!"

**DeadlySquirrel**

Their chapter master falcon punched an Avatar of Khaine to death. Thats clearly a good thing......

**Neconilis**

Fifty wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:-Saving the Imperium by providing fighting men after Heresy.
-Sharing their geneseed with everyone.
-Providing good life to citizens of their planets.
-Have the ability to work with non-Humans.
-Holding down the Tyranid advance.

Like someone here said: they represent the Emperor's vision of civilized galaxy. And his vision of a true Space Marine, loyal to him - but also to the people of the Imperium ( never saw or heard of Ultramarines abandoning civilians ).

This all fits the America theory too.

Sharing their geneseed - well there are more than a few bastard offspring in the UK due to overpaid, oversexed and over here Yanks.
Providing a good life to their cits - at the expense of other countries, sure!
Ability to work with non-humans - well, modify that to non-Americans and look at Nike sweatshops in Indonesia, electronics manufacturers in China and so on, sure!
Holding down the Tyranid advance. Well, sure if you go with the theory that Viet Nam was a draw, and it held back the advance of Communism!

Broad brushes do paint best.

**Asherian Command**

I hate ultramarines.

**forruner_mercy**

Asherian Command wrote:I hate ultramarines.

Thats not enough. There needs to be more. Nor is this the right thread. Go to the thread I started to say how much you hate them.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369000.page

**Durza**

Jimsolo wrote:While I agree that the Ultramarines missed the majority of the Heresy, it wasn't because they were hiding in some whole somewhere. It was because Horus got them sent off on a wild goose chase in the middle of nowhere because Gulliman was a better general than him. The Ultramarines were already the best, and he didn't want them taking a dump in his proverbial oatmeal.

And the supposedly "perfect in the eyes of the IoM" worlds are, according to all accounts, nice places to live compared with some of the other hellholes the Imperium has to offer.

Not every group of Marines follows the Codex. The Space Wolves diverge from it about as far as possible. So do the Black Templars. Very few of the Chapters, in fact, live up to the expectations of the Codex. The Salamanders, Blood Angels, Crimson Fists, Exorcists, White Scars, and dozens of others all deviate from the Codex in some way. The rogue or renegade Chapters are the ones who either embraced Chaos, rejected the Imperium, or became too warped to continue in their service. (Examples include the Red Corsairs, Soul Drinkers, and Legion of the Damned respectively.) Which Chapters were driven out for not following the Codex?

The Codex wasn't written to impose the will of some tyrannical madman on the Space Marines. It was put in place to give Space Marines a template to follow, rather than the 'run around higgledy piggledy and do whatever you want' attitude that produced such bang up jobs as the World Eaters, the Night Lords, and the Word Bearers. It's not law, but rather a set of guidelines designed to ensure that the Space Marines are dedicated to the job at hand rather than getting distracted by warrior lodges, Chaos inspired artwork, or any of the other nonsense that gave rise to the treason of the Traitor Legions in the first place. The Codex also gives the Marines (especially those new Chapters which do not have centuries of history and tradition) an example of how to do things properly. Third, by limiting the size and power of a group of Space Marines, it limits the amount of damage they can do if they turn renegade.

The Codex Astartes isn't about protecting Roboute Gulliman's legacy from change or adaptation. It isn't about protecting Space Marines from change. It's about protecting the Imperium from the Space Marines.

At least, that's my take on it.

Surely Horus removing the Imperium's best general shows that he was a better general. Guilliman would have realised it was a goose chase if he had truly been a better general than Horus. Also, alienating an entire legion just because they don't follow your battle plan isn't the best thing a general could do. On founding half the SM chapters, that was because they had lost hardly any men in the Heresy, then the restrictions on Chapter numbers prevented any other legions reaching the same numbers as they previously had, so once the codex was in place, they had their huge number advantage cemented in place.

Another negative interpretation by the way, so feel free to call me a troll or something.

**forruner_mercy**

Durza wrote:
Jimsolo wrote:While I agree that the Ultramarines missed the majority of the Heresy, it wasn't because they were hiding in some whole somewhere. It was because Horus got them sent off on a wild goose chase in the middle of nowhere because Gulliman was a better general than him. The Ultramarines were already the best, and he didn't want them taking a dump in his proverbial oatmeal.

And the supposedly "perfect in the eyes of the IoM" worlds are, according to all accounts, nice places to live compared with some of the other hellholes the Imperium has to offer.

Not every group of Marines follows the Codex. The Space Wolves diverge from it about as far as possible. So do the Black Templars. Very few of the Chapters, in fact, live up to the expectations of the Codex. The Salamanders, Blood Angels, Crimson Fists, Exorcists, White Scars, and dozens of others all deviate from the Codex in some way. The rogue or renegade Chapters are the ones who either embraced Chaos, rejected the Imperium, or became too warped to continue in their service. (Examples include the Red Corsairs, Soul Drinkers, and Legion of the Damned respectively.) Which Chapters were driven out for not following the Codex?

The Codex wasn't written to impose the will of some tyrannical madman on the Space Marines. It was put in place to give Space Marines a template to follow, rather than the 'run around higgledy piggledy and do whatever you want' attitude that produced such bang up jobs as the World Eaters, the Night Lords, and the Word Bearers. It's not law, but rather a set of guidelines designed to ensure that the Space Marines are dedicated to the job at hand rather than getting distracted by warrior lodges, Chaos inspired artwork, or any of the other nonsense that gave rise to the treason of the Traitor Legions in the first place. The Codex also gives the Marines (especially those new Chapters which do not have centuries of history and tradition) an example of how to do things properly. Third, by limiting the size and power of a group of Space Marines, it limits the amount of damage they can do if they turn renegade.

The Codex Astartes isn't about protecting Roboute Gulliman's legacy from change or adaptation. It isn't about protecting Space Marines from change. It's about protecting the Imperium from the Space Marines.

At least, that's my take on it.

Surely Horus removing the Imperium's best general shows that he was a better general. Guilliman would have realised it was a goose chase if he had truly been a better general than Horus. Also, alienating an entire legion just because they don't follow your battle plan isn't the best thing a general could do. On founding half the SM chapters, that was because they had lost hardly any men in the Heresy, then the restrictions on Chapter numbers prevented any other legions reaching the same numbers as they previously had, so once the codex was in place, they had their huge number advantage cemented in place.

Another negative interpretation by the way, so feel free to call me a troll or something.

I'm just happy that you backed up what you said. In my "What is wrong with the Ultramarines" thread, there was much "cause they are blue, and they suck, and they didn't do anything during the Horus Heresy", and other things that seemed very bandwagon-ish to me. So your post makes sense, and it is backed up

**Wardragoon**

The biggest thing that I don't like about them is that when Rogal Dorn initially went 'Feth you I am not taking your bible or following your orders' Guilliman tried to get him declared as a heretic. The reason I don't think guilliman did it to the space wolves is the fact they are an always have been a small Legion(though chapterwise I think they are a little larger than your average 1000 man chapter)

**KingDeath**

They aren't the Teenage Wish Fulfillment Chapter, aka Spacewolves. That's enough for me

**forruner_mercy**

At least Guilliman can refuse to take orders. Russ will always follow orders no matter what.
TBH, the Imperial Fists are my fav. And I am just wondering, has anyone come up with a humorous term for them (like the UM are Smurfs, the SW are Puppies).

**Grey Templar**

Yellow bellies, Yellow Jackets...

Rightious and Harmonious Fists

**Roadkill Zombie**

The Codex Astartes wasn't just written by the Ultramarines primarch, it was written by many many people throughout the history of the Imperium. It may have been organized by him but it certainly wasn't written by just him.

**Grey Templar**

So he also took credit for a book he didn't write.

I thought this was a thread supporting the Ultramarines???

**Void__Dragon**

Luna Dragon wrote:This is a thread to list the good things that Ultramarine have done.

- Ultramar
- Holding the Imperium together after the Horus Heresy
- Writing the Codex Astartes
- Founding half of the current SM chapters
- Being really good at fighting Tyranids
- They repelled two Tyranid invasions
-Saving the Imperium by providing fighting men after Heresy
-Sharing their geneseed with everyone
-Providing good life to citizens of their planets
-Have the ability to work with non-Humans
-Holding down the Tyranid advance.

You do realise that you repeated yourself several times, right? "Being really good at fighting Tyranids" is not even a "thing" they have "done," it is something about them, and something that is obvious from the repelling two Tyranid invasions thing.

And one must remember they did not repel Kraken alone, the Eldar played a big part in that as well.

But I digress.

Hey I know one thing they did that was good!

They managed to evacuate Damnos with little casualties when the Tomb World awoke, steamrolling through the Necron invaders, and even managed to crush the Necron Lord under mighty Dreadnought fist!

Huh? What's that?

You say that originally the Necrons decisively beat the Ultramarines, inflicting heavy casualties, and originally it was both the Ultramarines AND the Black Templars that were there, with both being crushed by the Tomb World forces? Silly lad, Mat Ward has made it clear that this is not the case.

/bitter

**Conservationist**

forruner_mercy wrote:At least Guilliman can refuse to take orders. Russ will always follow orders no matter what.
TBH, the Imperial Fists are my fav. And I am just wondering, has anyone come up with a humorous term for them (like the UM are Smurfs, the SW are Puppies).

They can be called Fisters, Fisties or Imps if you like. Just that Imps don't seem to fit well...

**forruner_mercy**

Conservationist wrote:
forruner_mercy wrote:At least Guilliman can refuse to take orders. Russ will always follow orders no matter what.
TBH, the Imperial Fists are my fav. And I am just wondering, has anyone come up with a humorous term for them (like the UM are Smurfs, the SW are Puppies).

They can be called Fisters, Fisties or Imps if you like. Just that Imps don't seem to fit well...

Probably because an "imp" is a demonic creature. Or, if you live in England, a daemonic creature.

**Temujin**

The best thing I can say about the Ultramarines is that it must have taken epically sized balls for their traitor primarch to have tried to brand Dorn a heretic.