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And now we're talking about the Traitor Legions and the Heresy xD

Honestly, I don't like the entire space marines. Well, I do love the Space Wolves, but the rest are just a bunch of genetically-enhanced sheep to me. Blindly following the words of a man who's been in life-support for a couple thousands of years? I mean, sure, he had awesome psychic powers, but so did Darth Sidious! The thing is, I don't see why UMs should be hated particulary. You know, at least they're blue. Blue is awesome.

Anyways, I'm getting a bit off topic myself xD

Belexar wrote:And now we're talking about the Traitor Legions and the Heresy xD

Honestly, I don't like the entire space marines. Well, I do love the Space Wolves, but the rest are just a bunch of genetically-enhanced sheep to me. Blindly following the words of a man who's been in life-support for a couple thousands of years? I mean, sure, he had awesome psychic powers, but so did Darth Sidious! The thing is, I don't see why UMs should be hated particulary. You know, at least they're blue. Blue is awesome.

Anyways, I'm getting a bit off topic myself xD

The entire Imperium blindly reveres the Emperor, Space Wolves included.

Ironically, a lot of what they are doing is the same crap he is against.

Particularly the whole "worshipping" part, the Emperor enforced atheism.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Belexar wrote:And now we're talking about the Traitor Legions and the Heresy xD

Honestly, I don't like the entire space marines. Well, I do love the Space Wolves, but the rest are just a bunch of genetically-enhanced sheep to me. Blindly following the words of a man who's been in life-support for a couple thousands of years? I mean, sure, he had awesome psychic powers, but so did Darth Sidious! The thing is, I don't see why UMs should be hated particulary. You know, at least they're blue. Blue is awesome.

Anyways, I'm getting a bit off topic myself xD

The entire Imperium blindly reveres the Emperor, Space Wolves included.

Ironically, a lot of what they are doing is the same crap he is against.

Particularly the whole "worshipping" part, the Emperor enforced atheism.

I guess I should read the novels before talking about the fluff xD

And even if the Wolves follow the Emperor, they make it up with their badassery.

Now, even if the Marines not following the Emperor, they are following the guys who "speak for him." they're still sheep. At least the guards have minds of their own and are Badass Normal.

And there's the GK. Oh, the GK. I hate them as most people hate the Ultramarines, even more. I don't really feel like talking about them now, but they are just... Wrong. I mean, the whole memory-wiping stuff is fine, but slaughering entire regiments just to keep their secret? Oh, and don't get me started on that whole Sisters deal...

More things for the list:

- Were one of the most successful Legions during the Great Crusade, being the fastest to bring worlds into Compliance, while doing it with the fewest casualties

- WTFpwned the Word Bearers despite being outnumbered and caught by surprise

- Cleansed much of the Eastern fringe of the Ork menace, whether by themselves, or at the head of a multi-Chapter crusade

- Infiltrated and destroyed the Iron Warriors' Fortress of Pain

- Recaptured Forge World Thrax from corrupted AdMech

- First sealed and later destroyed the Daemon Prince M'Kar

- Uriel destroyed the Daemonculaba, preventing the Iron Warriors from amassing an enormous Legion... which is canceled out by Uriel releasing the Nightbringer

- Make tons of money by turning their Primarch's corpse into a tourist attraction

- Then there's all the crap in C:SM, which is really Codex: Ultramarines

In a nutshell, they had the most exemplary record during the Great Crusade, they held the Imperium together in the aftermath of the Heresy, they rule over the largest chunk of territory in the Imperium, their domain is the most self-sufficient and pleasant place to live in the Imperium (read: the only part of it that truly reflects the Emperor's vision), and they kill a lot of Orks and Tyranids, while foiling the Iron Warriors' plans time and time again.

They probably could stand to fight Chaos a bit more often, but seeing as they are literally on the other side of the galaxy from the Eye of Terror, you can't really blame them. The Maelstrom is on the fringe of their territory though, so they should probably be stomping some renegades.

Omegus wrote:More things for the list:

- Were one of the most successful Legions during the Great Crusade, being the fastest to bring worlds into Compliance, while doing it with the fewest casualties

- WTFpwned the Word Bearers despite being outnumbered and caught by surprise

- Cleansed much of the Eastern fringe of the Ork menace, whether by themselves, or at the head of a multi-Chapter crusade

- Infiltrated and destroyed the Iron Warriors' Fortress of Pain

- Recaptured Forge World Thrax from corrupted AdMech

- First sealed and later destroyed the Daemon Prince M'Kar

- Uriel destroyed the Daemonculaba, preventing the Iron Warriors from amassing an enormous Legion... which is canceled out by Uriel releasing the Nightbringer :p

- Make tons of money by turning their Primarch's corpse into a tourist attraction

- Then there's all the crap in C:SM, which is really Codex: Ultramarines

In a nutshell, they had the most exemplary record during the Great Crusade, they rule over the largest chunk of territory in the Imperium, their domain is the most self-sufficient and pleasant place to live in the Imperium (read: the only part of it that truly reflects the Emperor's vision), and they've kill a lot of Tyranids, Orks and Iron Warriors.

Also, their Tyranic War Veterans make up the majority of the Deathwatch chapter.
And what you said about Ultramar is very true. That place is probably one of the safest places in the entire Imperium. And there are high standards of living there, for the Imperium.
You should probably put Calgar punching an Avatar of Khaine to death in there.

Durza wrote:Surely Horus removing the Imperium's best general shows that he was a better general. Guilliman would have realised it was a goose chase if he had truly been a better general than Horus.

Would realizing that really have made Guilliman a "better general"? Or a clairvoyant to shame Magnus, the Emperor and all the Eldar combined?

1. They were ordered to do so by the Warmaster, the favored son of the Emperor and Guilliman's superior officer. The Ultramarines are nothing if not about the chain of command.
2. They were already in the far Eastern fringe because they were so damn good at doing the job the Emperor assigned them. Horus' complicity in keeping them there wasn't added until the HH novels.

Remember, the very idea of treachery among the Astartes was inconceivable at the time. Dorn was ready to slaughter Garro and Iacton for even suggesting that Horus had turned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

forruner_mercy wrote:You should probably put Calgar punching an Avatar of Khaine to death in there.

Well, I tried to keep it to major galactic-level events. If we were to list all the things Calgar did, we'd need 28 volumes.

Omegus wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

forruner_mercy wrote:You should probably put Calgar punching an Avatar of Khaine to death in there.

Well, I tried to keep it to major galactic-level events. If we were to list all the things Calgar did, we'd need 28 volumes.

True...

Most of his actions are dull. Now, Dante is complete ownage!

SickSix wrote:Maybe I missed the cues or you read that story with with a bias view. But that is not what I got out of that at all....

DarknessEternal wrote:We also know exactly what Guilliman was up to, since this is the past to us. He had an opportunity to do what you describe and he specifically abdicated it.

I think you both need to re-read the opening of Rules of Engagement. The Lion's speculation is besides the point. Assuming you read the stories in order, we already knew that

A point in what they good are: sacrefising themselfs to become blue, and so nobody else has to do that...

So listen up here's a story about a little guy that lives in a blue world, and all day and all night and everything he sees is just blue, like him, inside and outside. Blue his house with the blue little window and a blue corvette and everything is blue for him and himself and everybody around 'cos he ain't go nobody to listen.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Belexar wrote:And now we're talking about the Traitor Legions and the Heresy xD

Honestly, I don't like the entire space marines. Well, I do love the Space Wolves, but the rest are just a bunch of genetically-enhanced sheep to me. Blindly following the words of a man who's been in life-support for a couple thousands of years? I mean, sure, he had awesome psychic powers, but so did Darth Sidious! The thing is, I don't see why UMs should be hated particulary. You know, at least they're blue. Blue is awesome.

Anyways, I'm getting a bit off topic myself xD

The entire Imperium blindly reveres the Emperor, Space Wolves included.

Ironically, a lot of what they are doing is the same crap he is against.

Particularly the whole "worshipping" part, the Emperor enforced atheism.

Space Marines don't worship the Emperor he is more of a father figure to them than a god, because they know better compared to the normal humans who could be called sheep.

The Black Templars call him the 'God Emperor' and pray to him.

I would say they worship him.

Then that's the Black Templars, not the marines as a whole, who don't.

That's what I said.

I was disproving the 'Space Marines don't worship the Emperor' comment.

The BT are space marines are they not?

Temujin wrote:

SickSix wrote:Maybe I missed the cues or you read that story with with a bias view. But that is not what I got out of that at all....

DarknessEternal wrote:We also know exactly what Guilliman was up to, since this is the past to us. He had an opportunity to do what you describe and he specifically abdicated it.

I think you both need to re-read the opening of Rules of Engagement. The Lion's speculation is besides the point. Assuming you read the stories in order, we already knew that

Spoiler:

Guilliman's heresy was far beyond what the Lion could have imagined when the Dark Angels were summoned to Ultramar. The Codex's working title was Imperium Secondus, Guilliman planned it while the Emperor lived and breathed on Terra, and his armies were busily planning to defend Ultramar from Traitor and Loyalist alike. Even Guilliman himself realised that this made him a traitor. Obviously we know that Guilliman's little sucession did not come to pass, but at this point we can only speculate as to why. Perhaps he repented, perhaps his ambitions were thwarted. We'll just have to wait to find out.

Maybe you need to re-read it yourself, or take off the extremely biased glasses. He says specifically that while his actions may have others call him a traitor, he was trying to preserve the spirit and ideals of the Imperium. He trained against traitors and loyalists alike because at that point no one could be trusted. "Guilliman's little succession" didn't pass because he wasn't trying to become Emperor.

He was preparing for one of two eventualities:

1.) Horus wins. Guilliman is well-entrenched and ready to fight off the Traitors, saving a huge chunk of the Imperium from the predations and degradations of Chaos. The Emperor's vision is preserved and the fight for the galaxy can continue.
2.) The Imperium wins. Guilliman has enough forces to cleanse Imperial territory of any remnants, as well as hold the Imperium together against other threads and any other Primarch that may get ideas. You know, what actually happened.

Medium of Death wrote:The Black Templars call him the 'God Emperor' and pray to him.

I would say they worship him.

No they don't in both cases.

Proof?

I could clearly go and get the BT codex right now if you would like.

Go right now and back up your claim of black templars calling him on terra "god-" emperor.

Because none of those sources say so: codex BT, codex armageddon, chapter approved, etc etc...

thenoobbomb wrote:A point in what they good are: sacrefising themselfs to become blue, and so nobody else has to do that...

Are you being serious about this? Or are you joking?
Either way, I wish people would leave the color blue out of this. It is a really stupid reason to not like them.

forruner_mercy wrote:
Either way, I wish people would leave the color blue out of this.

Leave blue out? but but ultramarines blue.......

- Crassus armored assault commander Purplefood put a nice interpretation of that "i am blue" song in here,
- The old paintscheme was also sort of baby-blue and drove certainly some people off.

1hadhq wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:
Either way, I wish people would leave the color blue out of this.

Leave blue out? but but ultramarines blue.......

- Crassus armored assault commander Purplefood put a nice interpretation of that "i am blue" song in here,
- The old paintscheme was also sort of baby-blue and drove certainly some people off.

What I was talking about was hatin' on the UM because they are blue.

Does anyone hate on them just for the color? If so, the Imperial Fists should get way more hate.

Omegus wrote:Does anyone hate on them just for the color? If so, the Imperial Fists should get way more hate.

But the IF have black fist, and that's cool by all standards.
Plus, their successors are BT, and who don't like BT....

People don't liek Ultramarines because they are Matt Ward's most favorite chapter... and becasue of this things:

Omegus wrote:Does anyone hate on them just for the color? If so, the Imperial Fists should get way more hate.

Apparently. In the "What is wrong with the Ultramarines" thread that I made, some peoples reasons were that they were blue.
I'm not sure how they could even think that it was valid.

Look at post #10. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369000.page

That cartoon is inaccurate. Matthew looks like a way bigger douchebag in real life.

Omegus wrote:That cartoon is inaccurate. Matthew looks like a way bigger douchebag in real life.

=

His goatee makes me want to commit violence.

hmmmm, the plot thickens

Omegus wrote:His goatee makes me want to commit violence.

Whats wrong with a gotee?