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Sounds a bit like Wraithguard.


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Banzaimash wrote:Hurricane Harpies.
WS4,BS4,S3,T3,W1,I5,A2,Ld9,Sv5+.
Squad size 5-10.
Jump Infantry.
Weapon: Two Shuriken Pistols(count as twin linked),melta bombs,Harpy jump packs.
23 points per model.
Exarch upgrade for an extra 7points(entails an extra attack,BS,WS,I).
Spec Rules:Hit-and-Run, Fleet-of-foot, Deep Strike.
Options: Any Harpy may swap its dual shuriken pistols for a shuriken pistol and a close combat weapon for free. For an extra 5 ten points per model they may take a power weapon in replacement of their close combat weapon. For every 5 models in a squad one may swap its shuriken pistols for a flamer for an extra 5 points. Each model may also swap its dual shuriken pistols with dual fusion pistols for 10 points per model(count as twin linked).ETC. The main principle of this unit is to provide the Eldar with a specialized close assault unit that can move faster than Banshees or Scorpians, but trade out the special rules such as Acrobatic or Stalker for jump packs. An alternative are an advanced form of rangers, who are specialised in long ranged accurate combat (as opposed to Dark Reapers that use heavy weapons to lay down more destructive and suppressing fire).

Several points.

First,what does a Harpy JP do,because it is not mentioned.


Second,the only value I could gain from a Pistol and CCW is that if you want to rtake a power weapon.2 pistols give you the extra attack,and if you take the CCW then you lose TL pistols,and swap it for a normal one.


Thirdly,dual Fusion pistols is a waste,as you get to only fire 1,and they are undercosted.Tl is fine,but it would be simplerr to say a CCW(No PW swapping) and TL fusion pistol,and then you don't have people whining about 2 fusion pitols that are absolutly rubbish,fluff wise.

Thom: Never heard the equation that vision is conciousness before.
Eldar use titans to herd these megadons, and neither fantasy dragons nor big sharks make for good herd animals.

My main argument remains: Eldar wouldn't need to make a wraith-mount since the soul in the spirit stone isn't necessary to spark motion, that's just the pilot, and when the mount has a pilot you don't need two minds.
All it would really do is enforce an artificial drawback and make the unit unreliable. Seeing how Eldar usually play, unreliable is bad. Very bad.

Banzaimash / Rented Tritium: Isn't the Eldar terminator equivalent supposed to be the Wraithguard?

(Eldar actually have a Path of Wailing for those overcome with sorrow)

Mahtamori wrote:Thom: Never heard the equation that vision is conciousness before.

Plato, Descartes, Nietzsche, Rorty...

Eldar use titans to herd these megadons, and neither fantasy dragons nor big sharks make for good herd animals.

Hence the "my hair is a bird..." Though, I think fantasy dragons could be herded.

Other than that I've come to completely agree with you.

Sorry I don't play Eldar, it was just a suggestion. I still think the concept is sound though.


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Harpy jump packs are just regular jump packs.

Personally, wraithguard are cool, and the idea of Terminator Eldar works... but i would have them *if we're bandying the idea around* taller suits of slender'er terminator style armour.... possibly with a twin-linked shuriken pistol... or something of the kind in mix with a power / witch weapon...

However i don't think the wraithguard preform the same jobs as Terminators, i would think they are simply medium ranged support walkers, built to be smaller wraithlords without CC weapons....

How about Hurricane Harpies. Women eldar with two fusion pistols a bit like seraphine

Thom wrote:

Mahtamori wrote:Thom: Never heard the equation that vision is conciousness before.

Plato, Descartes, Nietzsche, Rorty...

Eldar use titans to herd these megadons, and neither fantasy dragons nor big sharks make for good herd animals.

Hence the "my hair is a bird..." Though, I think fantasy dragons could be herded.

Other than that I've come to completely agree with you.

Ah, philosophy. Figures. I don't know if I should be glad or sad I never had it shoved down my throat at school.

I must be slow or something, I actually didn't catch the meme reference until now.
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dakkawolf: No, they don't perform the same role since they are vulnerable to powerfists and power armoured power weapons. Terminators are better at soaking those. The efficiency of Wraithguards is a bit dubious compared to Terminators, but Wraithguard land on the shooting side while Terminators tend to land on the assaulting side when push comes to shove. I do believe someone somewhere on this section of the forum suggested Wraithguard with what essentially amounts to either power weapons or power fists. I have, myself, suggested that Wraithguard might be interesting if they simply had Monstrous Creature attached to them.
In either case, Eldar terminators-ish are very possible.
--

Banzaimash: Them harpies are a sound concept, however, I'd just like to point out that with a save of 5+ they won't stand much chance in melee - when they cost more than a Warp Spider. I know that you've attached the rather costly HNR on them, but shuriken pistols are peashooters. They shoot large peas, yes, but they're still peas. The idea could evolve beyond this, just keep in mind that the squad should have one purpose and be hard to alter for other purposes. They are, after all, very, very, close to Storm Guardians with jump packs.
Now, the Eldar Fast Attack section is a bloody mess, with Hawks and Spiders stepping on each other's toes. I'd personally suggest sticking with melee. You could make a point of the dual-pistols, though, and maybe do a gun kata rule. Just keep in mind that too much shooting and you step on Spiders and too much power weapons and you step on Spears.
That is, if you want to keep it in a codex complementary format.
The name, though, is really quite awesome in my mind. Very codex-like.

what about hurricane harpies. abit like seraphine swooping hawk wings and 2fusion pistols.

Could go with masses of melee attacks, instead of fewer powerful attacks or masses of shooting attacks.

Thanks Mahtamori .

Grab some Wraithguard and make a few variations. Maybe a Wraithknight, who give up their Wraithcannon for an eldar equivalent of dual lightning claws. The powerfists arent really needed as they are already str 6 right? Also throw on a 5+ inv. save for added durability in cc vs the power weapons. Maybe give them one extra base attack just to make them that much better in cc, or give them furious charge or something.

As far as a new aspect, I still think you should go with the Menshad Korum as I mentioned earlier.

Perhaps a unit of wraithguard that had formerly been a specific aspect before they were all killed by a certain enemy. So now you have a Unit of Wraithguard who have been given all of the Striking Scorpion gear but maintain their own stats and have the preferred enemy of whatever it was that killed them before.

Rocketmike wrote:Grab some Wraithguard and make a few variations. Maybe a Wraithknight, who give up their Wraithcannon for an eldar equivalent of dual lightning claws. The powerfists arent really needed as they are already str 6 right? Also throw on a 5+ inv. save for added durability in cc vs the power weapons. Maybe give them one extra base attack just to make them that much better in cc, or give them furious charge or something.

As far as a new aspect, I still think you should go with the Menshad Korum as I mentioned earlier.

Perhaps a unit of wraithguard that had formerly been a specific aspect before they were all killed by a certain enemy. So now you have a Unit of Wraithguard who have been given all of the Striking Scorpion gear but maintain their own stats and have the preferred enemy of whatever it was that killed them before.

Cool idea, but you'd just end up replacing the standard units though wouldn't you? Unless they were elite versions like the DE trueborn / blood brides I suppose...




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Kin Hunters!

A unit with farely base stats that do extra damage vs DE.

Or, a unit that has preferred enemy against a randomly decided (dice roll) unit.

What about Pheonix Dragon Corsairs?

I'd be happy with a troops choice that was suited to assault, something similar to assault marines or CSM, where they at least have 2 weapons for the extra attack, and possibly furious charge. the exarch gets a power weapon or mirrorblades or something. the exarch ability can be similar to the DA's Defend so they can dish out some hurt without being mangled in the counter-attack by mediocre troops with their low T and Armor.

Even a striking scorpions clone, without the mandiblasters would be great. A sort of Scorpion Lite, that can fill out the ranks a little bit without being stupid expensive.

All three assault-based units are in the elites category, so if you want to make an assaulty army that will actually be able to close with the enemy, you only have 3 units. which means if you take harlequins or banshees, you have to exclude fire dragons...and who wants to do that? they're amazing.

Perhaps the Kin Hunters could roll a d6 when charging an enemy, and on a certain roll (maybe 5+), they get the Preferred Enemy USR against that squad for this combat (Rerolling if they break and later re-engage, as the Eldar souls have trouble sometimes remembering those who ahve wronged them or who they've hunted in past lives or whatever). You could just make them always succeed on the roll vs DE or Chaos Daemons or something (Kind of like a mini-Gk anti-daemon unit).

@hemingway:
Blood Mantis
WS: 5. BS: 4. S: 3. T: 3. Wd: 1. Att: 2 Init: 5 Lead: 9. Save 4+
Type: Infantry
Special rules: Fleet.
Equipment: Two Close Combat Weapons.
Cost: 13 points per model
Exarch abilities: <Squad Furious Charge> (15 points), <Allowing consolidation moves to initiate assaults> (10 points)
Exarch weapon choices: dual Power Weapons (10 points), <3rd edition Web of Skulls> (15 points)

Compared to Scorpions they have +1Ws, -1S, -1Sv, +Fleet, and their exarch abilities are more assault oriented than a Scorpions' infiltration.
Compared to Storm Guardians they have +2WS, +1A, +1In, +1Ld, +1Sv
The lack of pistol is an intentional drawback.

Mahtamori wrote:@hemingway:
Blood Mantis
WS: 5. BS: 4. S: 3. T: 3. Wd: 1. Att: 2 Init: 5 Lead: 9. Save 4+
Type: Infantry
Special rules: Fleet.
Equipment: Two Close Combat Weapons.
Cost: 13 points per model
Exarch abilities: <Squad Furious Charge> (15 points), <Allowing consolidation moves to initiate assaults> (10 points)
Exarch weapon choices: dual Power Weapons (10 points), <3rd edition Web of Skulls> (15 points)

Compared to Scorpions they have +1Ws, -1S, -1Sv, +Fleet, and their exarch abilities are more assault oriented than a Scorpions' infiltration.
Compared to Storm Guardians they have +2WS, +1A, +1In, +1Ld, +1Sv
The lack of pistol is an intentional drawback.

yeah, something like that would be great. 3 squads of them, some banshees or scorps, and firedragons to pop armor, maybe some warp spiders adn you have a pretty wicked assault themed force. even the name is cool.

I like the Blood Mantis idea, but I personally think you should be careful to note that they can't take Wave Serpents or something to avoid them getting across the board incredibly easily, since the exarch ability to consolidate into new assaults would be abused to hell otherwise. That, and bump the point cost to at least +25 or so for that ability...

darkPrince010 wrote:I like the Blood Mantis idea, but I personally think you should be careful to note that they can't take Wave Serpents or something to avoid them getting across the board incredibly easily, since the exarch ability to consolidate into new assaults would be abused to hell otherwise. That, and bump the point cost to at least +25 or so for that ability...

Well, I left out the transport option simply as an oversight. They should have one, actually it is absolutely vital they can be transported. In the current meta they will not live long enough to consolidate even once without one. The consolidation should be clarified as "only when consolidating after winning a close combat". I don't think it's all that potent since the power of the unit isn't all that high. We're not talking about Terminators consolidating into a new combat, but something more along the line of bog standard ultramarines.
But even so, the prices are just a sketch.

Hmm. I guess as long as they aren't CC monsters (Not on a Howling Banshee or Assault Marine level) and have smallish squad sizes, I think it'd be okay. I was just thinking that if it isn't handled carefully, it could lead to a "Table the Tau player in Turn 2" scenario thanks to constantly consolidating or something.

Guardsmen used to be a victim of this scenary in 4th ed.They would bunch up to maximise support,but then a single outflamnking 'stealer squad would just maul them all,before charging into the next squad,and repeat.If they sread out,then they didn't have the rapid fire on the CC unikt in there ranks,and they couldn't fight as well.

Yup, pretty much. Guardsmen, Tau Fire Warriors, and Eldar light troops are the intended targets for Blood Mantis to maul. Scorpions would be for the tougher mobs, particularly Ork mobs, while Banshees go for MEQ/TEQ.
The problem with true GEQ troops is that you need a lot of attacks, and bringing a lot of attacks to bear on them means that the troop would simply death-by-armour save MEQ/TEQ better than Banshees ever could. Thus you need a different ability, and that's to break the troops.

Now there's probably other ways to do it as well, that I haven't thought of, by I wanted to create a melee-rampaging unit that did not have to fall back on armour or any of the other classical ways to make an effective unit.

Now, if the consolidate is a bit too powerful, how about a rule that states that the Blood Mantis may, for each unsaved wound they inflict, make another melee attack at initiative 1?
This has a great possibility of generating a large amount of attacks against GEQ, while it is distinctly inferior against MEQ/TEQ where both toughness and armour works doubly against the extra attacks.
At the same time, it does allow most units the chance to defend themselves prior to the extra attacks. (Although the Exarch's Web of Skulls would be... sick)

We still haven't got any aspect warriors which embody Khaine's aspect of assassination/murder, by the way. All aspects embody Khaine in some way (except Banshees, whom were gifted to Khaine by the Hag), and he is not only the God of war and anger-management issues.

Well,we alreadyhave rangers and pathfinders,so theey fill the roll of assassins.

Wraith Scorpions
WS 4
BS 4
S 5(6)
T 6
W 1
I 4
A 1(3)
Ld 10
Sv 3+/5++

Wargear: Scorpions chainsword (added str shown in profile), Mandiblasters (Extra attack shown in profile), Wraithpistol

Wraithpistol: A miniaturized version of the Wraithcannon, the pistol version is small enough to fit in one hand (extra attack shown in profile). The wraithpistol has the following profile...
Range: 12" S: X AP: 4 Pistol
The wraithpistol always wounds on a 4+ regardless of toughness and against targets with an armor value, it always glances on a roll of 6.

Special rules: Fearless, Wraithsight
Options for: Infiltrate and Move through Cover

This is what I had in mind for a squad of Striking scorpions that had been wiped out but now continue to fight together in death as Wraithguard, only it makes sense for them to continue in their style of combat. Would fill the role of a cc Terminator pretty well I think. Thoughts?

You would need to give the pistol a Str value.

For example,the gauss flayer has similar rules vs vehicles(gauss),so would glance AV 10 on a 6 anyway.Then the Gauss balster could pen AV 10 on 6,even though it was gauss.

Deadshot wrote:Well,we alreadyhave rangers and pathfinders,so theey fill the roll of assassins.

Not quite what I meant, I was musing from a fluff perspective, and the rangers walk the path of the explorer (i.e. Outcast). Contrary to most Eldar, they seek to experience the universe around them rather than create a universe of their own on the craftworld - it is not a warlike path for an Eldar to tread. What I meant was down right cold-blooded murderers. Sort of a melee version of the Reapers, but I supposed all an aspect like that would be would be a cross between Scorpions and Banshees with all the benefits and few of the drawbacks.

Like Death Cult Assaissns,but for Eldar?

There are numerous weapons that don't have a Str value and instead have a special rule. The wraithcannon is one of them and glances on 3-4 and pens on 5-6. The pistol is intended to be a much weaker version of the cannon. perhaps it should always glance on a 5 and pen on a 6 due to its nature. Either way, it doesn't HAVE to have a str value. Sniper rifles are the same way aren't they? Always wound on a 4+?

Deadshot: No, that'd be too solitaire. They'd still have to be aspect warriors, which means guided on the path by exarchs.

Yes, all the way up to Sniper Rifles, Rocketmike. Sniper Rifles are most often S3 with rending when it comes to vehicles.

How bout this for assassin/murder aspect warriors.



Death Mongers

WS BS S T W I A Ld SV
Aspect Warrior 4 4 3 3 1 5 2 9 6+
Exarch 4 5 3 3 1 6 3 9 5+


3-5 Aspect Warriors.....25pts per modal
Each is armed with a Shurikan rifle and defensive grenades.
The Exarch is armed with a Deathrifle,a Shurikan Pistol,
Wargear
Shurikan Rifle
The shurikan rifle is a long Catapult with a telescopic sight and a dramatic range increase due to a longer barrel and more powerful launch systems.It can be fired with the following profile
Range S AP Type
36" X 5 Heavy 2,Sniper
Deathrifle
An Exarch of the Death Mongers usually wield the deadly deathrifle.The weapon can be used to put a bullet in the head of an enemy,no matter were he hides.The reason for this is infrared scope that sits atop the gun.The gun uses an extremely powerful electromagnetic pulse of energy to propel a microscopic slug to 65% the speed of light.Not much is known about were the pulse is generated from,save the maker of the weapon.Farseers and warlocks are said to fall in pain at the firing of the Deathrifle,and this suggests evil origins.Nevertheless,it is an extremely powerful and deadly rifle,and is revered as such.

Range S AP type
10D6"* X 3 Heavy 1,sniper,Psishock**

*roll each time the gun fires.
**A psyker that suffers an unsaved wound from the Deathrifle sufferes an automatic Perils of the Warp.Any psykers within 12",friend and foe,within 12" of the weapon when fired also suffers an automatic Perils of the warp.
An exarchl armed with the Deathrifle may fire even if there is no line of sight to the target.The target may only claim the benefits of cover form a Deathrifle if there is no line of sight.If the Exarch has line of sight to any member of the squad,they may not take any cover saves.The Deathrifle rolls 2D6 for armour penetration,but does not add strength or add D3 for rending.Furthermore,it cannot score a penetrating hit,and these are downgraded to glancing.

Special Rules
Standard aspect warrior rules.
Deadly Marksmen
Any roll to hit of 6,followed by a roll to wound of 6 may be allocated to a modal chosen by the firer.The Exarch may always allocate his wounds,and may reroll to hit when shooting.

Exarch Powers
"Pick Targets....Fire!"
During the turn thios is used,all modals in the squad count their weapons as twinlinked.Furthermore,they may allocate their wounds on a to hit roll of 5 or 6,followed by a to wound roll of 6.
Master sniper
This is used at the start of the shooting phase.During the turn that this is used,the exarch may target a different unit to the squad.After declaring shooting,but BEFORE the EXARCH rolls to hit,he may make a Ld test.If he passes,he may target an enemy unit within 12" of the original target instead.If there is no legitimate target,then he automatically misses,as he has lost his chance to fire.Idf he fails his LD test,then the Target has moved,and he may not fire.