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All MEQ is covered by SW Thunderwolves,IMO.CSM have Daemonic Steeds.Sisters aren't a 'real' codex IMO.I thought orks had Squig riders or something.I believe Tau have Kroot Hounds and Krootox riders.True,Crons don't but they are outdated.

Deadshot wrote:All MEQ is covered by SW Thunderwolves,IMO.CSM have Daemonic Steeds.Sisters aren't a 'real' codex IMO.I thought orks had Squig riders or something.I believe Tau have Kroot Hounds and Krootox riders.True,Crons don't but they are outdated.

No, I'm not even nitpicking but that simply isn't the case. Space Wolves are a 5th of the (loyal) Space Marine Codices, so I'd say they don't cover 'All MEQ' in the slightest. Chaos Space Marines do not have Daemonic Steeds. Sisters are a real army, crappy Codex or not. Orks don't have squid riders (in 40K). Kroot Hounds & Krootox are not Cavalry and yes, neither 'Crons nor Grey Knights have cavalry and do you really expect the Necrons to?!

IMO,which I am entitled to,I get to say SW covers all MEQ.

Chaos Lords can take Daemonic steeds,Khorne and Slaanesh turns them to cavalry,while Tzeentch turns them to JI.

I didn't expect Necrons or Sisters to have them

I don't count SoBs as a 'proper' codex,becasue
A)they pay £10 for tyheir codex,and you get 2 issues of WD thrown in
B)They aren't in a Codex Book.

I thought The Orks had Squig Riders.Maybe in is WHFB I am thinking of.

If Kroot Hounds and Krootox aren't Beasts/Cavalry,then what are they?Just plain Infantry.That suck big time!

I didn't say you weren't entitled to your opinion. What I said, I didn't say as fact, I said "I'd say". Nonetheless, representing a 5th of all loyalist MeQ codices, I don't - and I imagine few would - think Space Wolves covers all MeQ.

I completely forgot about the Daemonic Steeds. Still different to a unit and limited to two characters, but yes.

Sisters are still a viable army. Again, like with the Space Wolves, this is interpretation and not one I agree with. Ultimately, if they're listed under the GW site then they are an army IMHO.

Orks don't have squig riders.

They are just infantry, purchased as part of a Kroot Carnivore squad.

None of these points change that saying "All other armies have cavalry in one form or another" is an exaggeration - as I said - and that a beast unit would impose upon the role of Shining Spears.

Orks actually don't, and never have had Squig Riders. Orcs don't even have Squig riders.

However, there's Squggoth riders, Goblins have Squig Hoppers in Fantasy, Orcs have Boarboyz, and Orks used to have Boarboyz, and ought to in the future.

That is what I was thinking of!


Ok,I concede.But how about a cavalry unit?Wraithriders?One squad per farseer,no FOC,cannot be joined?

A cavalry unit would inevitably focus on charging, such is the nature of the cavalry rules. This would therefore seriously impede on the hard-hitting, fast charge that characterises the Shining Spears and to a lesser extent, Jetseer Councils and Banshees/Harlies.
That and I don't see how 'wraithriders' could make sense; they come back from the dead to ride horsies?

I was thinking Warlocks on Wraith Hounds,a mixture of beasts brought back through small spirit stones,embodied by Wraith bone.

Deadshot wrote:I was thinking Warlocks on Wraith Hounds,a mixture of beasts brought back through small spirit stones,embodied by Wraith bone.

Begs the question: do animals have souls to be captured in a spirit stone? Maybe make it dragons, people'll fall for that.

Dragons can be classified as reptiles=animals.But anything.An Eldar Cavalry unit would be good.

Yeah, but in fantasy stories Dragons usually are the only one - or at the very least, one of the few - that have a sentience equal to or greater than humanoids. Which would sort of help justify them having a soul (if you're into the whole body-mind/soul distinction that Descartes left us with).

Oh,I get it now.

So how about this

WraithDragon Rider Aspect Warriors
3-5 WraithDragon Riders

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 4 3 3 1 5 1 9 4+

Wargear
Something assaulty

WraithDragon mount.
Models mounted on a WraithDragon are cavalry.WraithDragons add +1to the rider's S,W and A.

Wraithsight
The whole squad must test for Wraithsight.If the test is failed,the riders may still shoot,but no model may move,run,assault.


Exarch+usual exarch points.
Including an Exarch lets you reroll the Wraithsight test.

Deadshot wrote:Oh,I get it now.

So how about this

WraithDragon Rider Aspect Warriors
3-5 WraithDragon Riders

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 4 3 3 1 5 1 9 4+

Wargear
Something assaulty

WraithDragon mount.
Models mounted on a WraithDragon are cavalry.WraithDragons add +1to the rider's S,W and A.

Wraithsight
The whole squad must test for Wraithsight.If the test is failed,the riders may still shoot,but no model may move,run,assault.


Exarch+usual exarch points.
Including an Exarch lets you reroll the Wraithsight test.

Also, it fits in with the whole "Exodites are off to maidenworlds to chase dragons" part of the fluff in the codex. Apparantly there are dragons on Eldar worlds.

About the unit: I suggest giving them wings to fly with, making them relentless - though, if you want assauly that hardly matters. Have them be Fearless, like any self respecting Wraith-. Let the Exarch have the options of Skilled Rider and, maybe, Furious Charge.

Wargear, I suggest: Shimmershield and a powerswordl. The Exarch may upgrade his Shimmershield to a Forceshield; or trade his Shimmershield and powerweapon for two Mirrorswords.

You could also have the Wraith Dragons have a Template shooting attack.

Also, I'd look for a different name, though I have no idea myself at the moment...

Exodite WraithRiders?

Bonesang Dragons? Wraithbone Cavalry? Wraithbone Riders? ...? I'm sorry, I kinda suck this evening.

Three things:
1. Eldar don't hunt dragons as much as they herd them. They introduced the dragons (think dinosaurs) to the Exodite and Maiden worlds, and to the Eldar they are no stranger or more mythical than cows or horses are to humans.

2. No Eldar, Craftworld or Exodite, would imbue a respected and venerated Eldar soul into a beast of burden, nor would any of their souls cooperate sufficiently to even remotely make the necromancy work. Dark Eldar probably would, but they lack the technology.

3. That's not how wraithsight work. The Wraiths are unliving Eldar souls imbued into robotic chassis. It is blindness and numbness of perception that makes them immobile. With a rider, the beast would have sufficient guidance not to suffer wraithsight.

Eldar, Craftworld Eldar above all, are fully capable of making animated wraithbone riding mounts, but they would be as reliable as a Jetbike - and just about as sentient as a Jetbike, too.
I would hazard that felines would be the preferred avatar species for such mounts, but they would not suffer wraithsight.
Spinning on on this line of thought, an Eldar rider would most likely not need a close combat weapon, and would be likely to carry a laser or shuriken assault weapon. The actual melee capacity would come from the mount itself, though you could make a special rule stating that additional close combat weapons carried by the rider increases the number of attacks from the mount by 1.

Example:

Shadow Lions (Fast Attack)
Type: Cavalry (Beast). 6" move, capable of running, 12" assault move.
Profile: standard Eldar aspect warrior profile.
Equipment: Each Shadow Lion aspect warrior is armed with a Shuriken Catapult and rides a Grey Cat. Any number of Shadow Lions may exchange his Shuriken Catapult with a close combat weapon and Shuriken Pistol at no additional cost.
Exarch may exachange his Shuriken Catapult with a close combat weapon and Shuriken Pistol at no addtional cost; or a Power Weapon and Shuriken Pistol for +15 points; or a Shadow Lance at +15 points.

Special rules.
Grey Cat - Grey Cat mounts are wraithbone replicas of great feline cats, most often lions but not seldom Lynx or Tiger. A Grey Cat mount alters the rider's unit type to Cavalry. A Gray Cat provides the rider with +2S, +1A and +1 to saves.
Shadow Lance - A Shadow Lance is a long, sleek, two-handed power weapon with a very long, single-edged, sword-like blade. The Shadow Lance always strikes first on a round in which it's rider counts as assaulting, and in such a round also roll an additional D6 armour penetration.

Exarch powers.
Counter-Assault. USR.
Pounce. When assaulting any infantry, jet infantry, jump infantry or (jet)bike models, these models are knocked off their feet by the ferocity of the Grey Cat's pounce, and they may only make at most one attack during this round of combat.

Mahtamori wrote:Three things:
1. Eldar don't hunt dragons as much as they herd them. They introduced the dragons (think dinosaurs) to the Exodite and Maiden worlds, and to the Eldar they are no stranger or more mythical than cows or horses are to humans.

When I said "chasing dragons" is was refering to horses, anyways...

2. No Eldar, Craftworld or Exodite, would imbue a respected and venerated Eldar soul into a beast of burden, nor would any of their souls cooperate sufficiently to even remotely make the necromancy work. Dark Eldar probably would, but they lack the technology.

Were talking about implementing the soul of a dragon into a wraithbone chasis, not the soul of an eldar into a dragon.

3. That's not how wraithsight work. The Wraiths are unliving Eldar souls imbued into robotic chassis. It is blindness and numbness of perception that makes them immobile. With a rider, the beast would have sufficient guidance not to suffer wraithsight.

Actually that is how wraithsight works, they can become unaware of their surrounding - including the rider. That means that they would not respond to the rider either.

Eldar, Craftworld Eldar above all, are fully capable of making animated wraithbone riding mounts, but they would be as reliable as a Jetbike - and just about as sentient as a Jetbike, too.
I would hazard that felines would be the preferred avatar species for such mounts, but they would not suffer wraithsight.

Cool. But why? I've read nothing about felines in the fluff. I have, however, read about dragons.

Spinning on on this line of thought, an Eldar rider would most likely not need a close combat weapon, and would be likely to carry a laser or shuriken assault weapon. The actual melee capacity would come from the mount itself, though you could make a special rule stating that additional close combat weapons carried by the rider increases the number of attacks from the mount by 1.

Like Space Wolves on big ass wolves don't actually need their thunderhammers?

They do need the Thunderhammers.The Thunderwolf mount grants rending,on any CC attacks that don't already have a specila rule,ie power weapons.

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but having unit named the Menshad Korum would be pretty cool. They are the "Lost Warriors" and more specifically they are Exarchs who have adopted more than one Aspect. I made up a unique special character that was a mix between a Striking Scorpion and a Fire Dragon exarch. Imagine an exarch with as many attacks as a Striking scorpion but made with the Fire Axe given to Fuegan, the fire dragon Pheonix Lord.

Anyway... Make a combination of any two aspects and call them the Menshad Korum, that's what I would do.

Deadshot wrote:They do need the Thunderhammers.The Thunderwolf mount grants rending,on any CC attacks that don't already have a specila rule,ie power weapons.

Not the point I was making; if they're on mounts they can still have an assault wargear, was what I was saying.

Oh,sorry.

Thom wrote:

Mahtamori wrote:Three things:
1. Eldar don't hunt dragons as much as they herd them. They introduced the dragons (think dinosaurs) to the Exodite and Maiden worlds, and to the Eldar they are no stranger or more mythical than cows or horses are to humans.

When I said "chasing dragons" is was refering to horses, anyways...

2. No Eldar, Craftworld or Exodite, would imbue a respected and venerated Eldar soul into a beast of burden, nor would any of their souls cooperate sufficiently to even remotely make the necromancy work. Dark Eldar probably would, but they lack the technology.

Were talking about implementing the soul of a dragon into a wraithbone chasis, not the soul of an eldar into a dragon.

Re-wrote this section so many times, suffice with;
Eldar do not need souls in order to power their creations, Wraithguard and Wraithlord are imbued with Eldar souls in order to manufacture sentient soldiers. Even in life an animal like a dragon is not sentient nor moral.
Eldar souls are the only known souls which retain sentience after death, and as such the only viable souls to capture inside a spirit stone, and by extension the only viable souls for Wraiths.

3. That's not how wraithsight work. The Wraiths are unliving Eldar souls imbued into robotic chassis. It is blindness and numbness of perception that makes them immobile. With a rider, the beast would have sufficient guidance not to suffer wraithsight.

Actually that is how wraithsight works, they can become unaware of their surrounding - including the rider. That means that they would not respond to the rider either.

The only information I can find on wraithsight is found in 3rd and 4th edition codex, where it details vision and vision only.

Eldar, Craftworld Eldar above all, are fully capable of making animated wraithbone riding mounts, but they would be as reliable as a Jetbike - and just about as sentient as a Jetbike, too.
I would hazard that felines would be the preferred avatar species for such mounts, but they would not suffer wraithsight.

Cool. But why? I've read nothing about felines in the fluff. I have, however, read about dragons.

Hazzard implies guessing. I'm basing it off of images of Gyrinx and how elves in general are described and attributed feline qualities.

Spinning on on this line of thought, an Eldar rider would most likely not need a close combat weapon, and would be likely to carry a laser or shuriken assault weapon. The actual melee capacity would come from the mount itself, though you could make a special rule stating that additional close combat weapons carried by the rider increases the number of attacks from the mount by 1.

Like Space Wolves on big ass wolves don't actually need their thunderhammers?

Can dragons speak?Then how do you know that they are not sentient?Prove it.


No clue on wraithsight

These are Eldar,not Elves.Essentially,they seem like Elves,but that doesn't mean they are cat people.

Deadshot wrote:Can dragons speak?Then how do you know that they are not sentient?Prove it.


No clue on wraithsight

These are Eldar,not Elves.Essentially,they seem like Elves,but that doesn't mean they are cat people.

Sentience or no sentience is impossible to prove in real life, or even in other human beings if you want to get downright philosophical. Regardless, the fluff blatantly states (on page 14) the level of a souls strength necessary to retain conciousness (and as such sentience) after death - and humans don't meet the cut, and since dragons are simply dinosaurs which can be assumed to be about as sentient as crocodiles (i.e. hardly able to learn) it is a safe assumption to rank them further down the scale than humans.

Don't fool yourself, these are space elves ("looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...").

Assuming makes an @$$ out of you and me.


That isn't a personal attack or anthing,just a phrase I kept hearing.


Looks like a duck,quacks like a duck,turns out it was a goose.

Hurricane Harpies.
WS4,BS4,S3,T3,W1,I5,A2,Ld9,Sv5+.
Squad size 5-10.
Jump Infantry.
Weapon: Two Shuriken Pistols(count as twin linked),melta bombs,Harpy jump packs.
23 points per model.
Exarch upgrade for an extra 7points(entails an extra attack,BS,WS,I).
Spec Rules:Hit-and-Run, Fleet-of-foot, Deep Strike.
Options: Any Harpy may swap its dual shuriken pistols for a shuriken pistol and a close combat weapon for free. For an extra 5 ten points per model they may take a power weapon in replacement of their close combat weapon. For every 5 models in a squad one may swap its shuriken pistols for a flamer for an extra 5 points. Each model may also swap its dual shuriken pistols with dual fusion pistols for 10 points per model(count as twin linked).ETC. The main principle of this unit is to provide the Eldar with a specialized close assault unit that can move faster than Banshees or Scorpians, but trade out the special rules such as Acrobatic or Stalker for jump packs. An alternative are an advanced form of rangers, who are specialised in long ranged accurate combat (as opposed to Dark Reapers that use heavy weapons to lay down more destructive and suppressing fire).

I'm seeing brightly coloured incubi... 3+ armour save, high strength value power weapons and furious charge.

The... Thunder... Giants.... ?

What about Eldar Terminator equivalents.

Mathamori wrote:Re-wrote this section so many times, suffice with;
Eldar do not need souls in order to power their creations, Wraithguard and Wraithlord are imbued with Eldar souls in order to manufacture sentient soldiers. Even in life an animal like a dragon is not sentient nor moral.
Eldar souls are the only known souls which retain sentience after death, and as such the only viable souls to capture inside a spirit stone, and by extension the only viable souls for Wraiths.

The Eldar codex refers to "megadons that the Exodites know by the name of dragons." Megadons were big ass sharks, not dinosaurs. My hair is a bird and such...

Back to the actual point, an animal like a dragon - a typical fantasy dragon - is sentient, at the very least like our chimps and elephants. Though it might not be "moral" (whatever that means, I'm really not in the mood for such a discussion) that doesn't mean it can't have a soul, DEldar aren't actually "moral" yet their souls go to Slaanesh.

The only hints to the nature of spirit stones from the codex is in the bit about the Tears of Isha - which explains that the actual tears of Isha are the spirit stones as we know them today and through these stones Isha could "see and talk to her children." And the bit about spirit stones, where it says that it's a "psycho-receptive crystal called a waystone, and is attuned solely to the mind of its owner." It also says that "virtually no Human mind is strong enough to retain a sense of consciousness after death" [emphasis added]

But I grant you that it's a stretch to capture a dragons soul in a waystone, hence making it a spirit stone - unless you'd go as far as a film like Dragnheart.

The only information I can find on wraithsight is found in 3rd and 4th edition codex, where it details vision and vision only.

While the wraithsight rule talks about sight, the Wraithlord entry talks about "consciousness" - which is understandable since we, Westerners, are used to equating "vision" with "consciousness." I think we shouldn't take sight to literal here. The rule states that they do nothing, not even move, if wraithsight hits - to me that means they've lost consciousness and are lost in the Warp.

Banzaimash wrote:What about Eldar Terminator equivalents.

I came here to post this!

I'm picturing armor reminiscent of dark reapers only bigger. Big slow guys with spiked fists and a super short range shoulder weapon, maybe a flamer or something. High points costs, squad size of 1-3, good stats.

Fluffwise, make them rare and powered by sadness etc eldar obv. Maybe the spikes on their fists are broken soulstones, sort of like fallout's dog tag fist.

Call them the trudging sorrows or something.