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Kriswall wrote:

blood reaper wrote:Because some people can't accept the ideas of others, I don't see buying re-rolls as a feasible way to keep the game going and just increases the image that the Game is all about money. This could lead to cases where you can revive dead units after paying a massive amount of money.

Jumpin' Jesus on a Pogo Stick! Of course it's about money. Why, in the name of all that's holy in the world, would you think otherwise. They are a publicly traded company, and as such, have a legal obligation to try and make as much money as possible for the stockholders. They would be remiss not to try anything and everything they can to get more money from us. I remember back when I realized corporations were greedy. I was 5. I got over it.

Also... reviving dead units after paying a massive amount of money? This is a natural consequence of being able to re-roll one isolated die roll? Excellent sensationalism. You should write for Fox News, sir. "Coming up next... a local gaming store recommends... Necromancy? Do you know what your kids are playing? Stay tuned for more!"

I mean that they don't care for older customers and those who like the game, they don't care who buys their stuff and if Kids with parents who have cash they'll squeeze the last penny from their wallets and create more ridiculous codices with even more over powered rules without care for the rules. And the reviving units with a single dice roll is not what I mean it’s that if this got out of hand it could become that you could simply spend a certain amount of money and revive a unit you lost in the game.

This thread has been awesome for my Ignore List.

If someone spends hundreds of dollars and long hours assembling and painting an army, it isn't unreasonable for them to expect their investment to be rewarded with a chance to play a game with a tangible strategic element and competitive balance. People don't take 40k too seriously. Look at the amount of time, emotion and money that people sink into sports, fashion trends, television programs, video games and other hobbies. It's ok to take mainstream hobbies seriously, but not ok to want to see 40k approached by its developer as a legitimate game of strategy? Hypocrisy is not your friend, kids.

For a company that already has an image problem about selling people victory, this (minor) gesture sends a bad message.

If they want to reward people for spending in store they could reintroduce the Skullz promoption, where you could collect stickers until you got a freebie (often exclusive to the promotion).

Then you'd have a cool model or something instead of something as crap as a licence to cheat.

I mean that they don't care for older customers and those who like the game

they let me walk into their shop once or twice a week and play on their tables. I've spent nothing in the shop this year (I have spent online). I think that shows they care

create more ridiculous codices with even more over powered rules

Oh good heavens. Either you think they do that already, or you don't. Giving away the odd re-roll or three with specific limits on use in a limited locale has nothing to do with whether recent codices are overpowered or not (i think probably the most over-powered Codex is Space Wolves and that's not exactly new).

Howard A Treesong wrote:If they want to reward people for spending in store they could reintroduce the Skullz promoption, where you could collect stickers until you got a freebie (often exclusive to the promotion).

Then you'd have a cool model or something instead of something as crap as a licence to cheat.

This sounds like a good idea that sadly will never happen, but if it did it would be great.

SkaerKrow wrote:For a company that already has an image problem about selling people victory

Explain please. I didn't know they had such an image. Why? This is a serious question. I avoid the tournament circuit like the plague, so I may never have been exposed to this image.

Artemo wrote:

I mean that they don't care for older customers and those who like the game

they let me walk into their shop once or twice a week and play on their tables. I've spent nothing in the shop this year (I have spent online). I think that shows they care

create more ridiculous codices with even more over powered rules

Oh good heavens. Either you think they do that already, or you don't. Giving away the odd re-roll or three with specific limits on use in a limited locale has nothing to do with whether recent codices are overpowered or not (i think probably the most over-powered Codex is Space Wolves and that's not exactly new).

It was an example of the bad decisions they make, I will agree with you about the Space Wolves though.

I think it would be nice if they did do a 'free product' sort of promotion. But they seem to have moved well away from giving product away free under any circumstances whatsoever.

I think we've gone past the news and rumors part of this story and gone into "Dakka Discussion".

Can we move this thread out of here, now?

Every News and Rumors thread turns into a discussion after a couple of posts. What's the difference?

Howard A Treesong wrote:If they want to reward people for spending in store they could reintroduce the Skullz promoption, where you could collect stickers until you got a freebie (often exclusive to the promotion).

Then you'd have a cool model or something instead of something as crap as a licence to cheat.

The Skullz program would be a fantastic way to get some mileage out of those test sculpts that we so often see, but never make it into the market for whatever reason. Even if a model is only test quality (which for GW's sculptors is usually pretty good), if you make it limited/hard to get that immediately makes it more desirable. It would also allow GW to offer something that no other retailer possibly can, since the only way to get Skullz would be to buy through the webstore or an official GW retailer.

that they get moved when the news and rumor part dries up. Like this one.

sn0zcumb3r wrote:Another part of why GW is a money grabbing disrespectful company...

If a customer is loyal to GW and buys a whole lot of stuff he can be rewarded (GW's discretion) BY GW! Give him a free model or an awesome poster or a f$%^ng dice
If you give him a reroll at the tournament you are in fact giving him a reward at some elses expense.

The though that you can buy an outcome at a tournament is just unethical to me

It's Throne of Skulls, which is about as far from a real tournament as you can get. This will be one more dumb fun thing in a weekend of dumb fun things that nobody cares about. In the meantime, anyone running an actual tournament will continue to happily ignore it.

For the rest of you nancies getting all upset about this and going on about BUYING WHOLE UNITS BACK FROM THE DEAD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope_fallacy#The_slippery_slope_as_fallacy

Kriswall wrote:Reading this thread is great fun. The amount of nerdrage occurring over a simple re-roll is hilarious.

Indeed

H.B.M.C. wrote:So we've had Kan and Redbeard in here to defend it. We just need Mystery to make an appearance and we'll have the Dakka Trifecta.

Unlike you, who seem to be just paranoid enough to find malice and incompetence in every decision GW makes. For years now. Honestly, why do you even still care, shouldn't you have moved on years ago? We get it, you don't like any decision GW has made in the last decade. But you're still here. I don't know if that says more about GW or you.

SkaerKrow wrote:
If someone spends hundreds of dollars and long hours assembling and painting an army, it isn't unreasonable for them to expect their investment to be rewarded with a chance to play a game with a tangible strategic element and competitive balance.

It is if they ever read the rules. Seriously? Tangible strategic element? Competitive Balance? Are you new here? GW doesn't have competitive balance, and never has. The closest they get to competitive balance is a consistent effort at making the newest book the best. Tangible Strategic Element? Like having long-range artillery pieces placed within small-arms range of your opponent to begin the game? Like running your uber-hero smack into whatever unit your opponent has and watching him chop them to bits?

You want a game with a tangible strategic element and competitive balance, go play chess. GW games aren't about that, aren't designed for that, and require quite a bit of third-party work to even be functional in a competitive setting (RE: Nova FAQ, INAT, etc.)

..., but not ok to want to see 40k approached by its developer as a legitimate game of strategy? Hypocrisy is not your friend, kids.

No, that's not ok. Because it shows that you're missing the point entirely. GW has stated, publicly and repeatedly, that their games are not suitable for the sort of uber-competitive tournament play that some of their fans (not sure whether to call them customers) want. They have stated, time and again, that their game development strategy is aimed squarely at the casual gamer. This is not some hidden agenda. They're not trying to fool anyone, they're not trying to trick you into thinking that they're making a finely-tuned balanced game, they're being upfront about their design goals. If you want more than that from them, you're looking in the wrong place, and you should save yourself the aggravation of having to deal with this by finding yourself a different game to play. GW games are not going to be what you seem to want them to be. That's on you, not them, they're not doing this in secret - and it's a really poor choice of words to call their behaviour hypocrisy. They're doing what they've always said they do.

If anything, their hypocritical actions are the ones that see them organizing and running tournaments, but this seems to be more about bowing to demand from the sales/events teams rather than something the design studio is backing.

For a company that already has an image problem about selling people victory, this (minor) gesture sends a bad message.

I am aware that GW has many image problems. Selling victory is not one that I'm aware of. Compared to a game like M:TG, where the 'good' cards sell for hundreds of dollars, there's nothing in GW's games that has any substantial impact on their price-to-win ratio.

The actions of one retail arm of a company cannot be held as some exemplar of their development strategy or principles. That, like most of this thread, is ludicrous.

May only be a branch of GW but it still reflects on the company as a whole.

In isolation this is but a butterly farting in a teapot.
But it is on the back of all the recent PR gaffs it adds to the stink.

For those who think it´s a joke, no, IT´S TRUE!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/gwnosgustaestafarte.jpg/

I translate:

Events table of the store area:

For purchases over.... Events (cumulative)

100€ - You can repeat a die in a GW store
150€ - Shipping to your home for free
200€ - Direct access to the Forgeworld area without waiting in the crowd
250€ - You can repeat a die in an official GW tournament.

It's just a gimmick. Besides, it only effects someone who plays in a GW store.

In the end, will one single dice roll change the game?

We are talking GW games here.
So yes. See: WHFB Magic. That Purple Sun that misfired? Nope, it just went right through the entire dwarf army.

Everyone who doesn't like this new system, just don't play at your local GW.

Let the big spenders use up their re-rolls on each other.

Corrode wrote:

sn0zcumb3r wrote:Another part of why GW is a money grabbing disrespectful company...

If a customer is loyal to GW and buys a whole lot of stuff he can be rewarded (GW's discretion) BY GW! Give him a free model or an awesome poster or a f$%^ng dice
If you give him a reroll at the tournament you are in fact giving him a reward at some elses expense.

The though that you can buy an outcome at a tournament is just unethical to me

It's Throne of Skulls, which is about as far from a real tournament as you can get. This will be one more dumb fun thing in a weekend of dumb fun things that nobody cares about. In the meantime, anyone running an actual tournament will continue to happily ignore it.

For the rest of you nancies getting all upset about this and going on about BUYING WHOLE UNITS BACK FROM THE DEAD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope_fallacy#The_slippery_slope_as_fallacy

It's unsporting.

As to the slippery slope, you're likely right. But... Consider microtransactions in MMO games, coupled with GW being run by people with no interest in the gaming or 'The Hhhhhhobby' and it's not in the realms of far flung imagination.

Kilkrazy wrote:Everyone who doesn't like this new system, just don't play at your local GW.

Let the big spenders use up their re-rolls on each other.

Not a problem as they closed almost all the stores in the Southeast. I'm just bracing for the influx of rich Spaniards flying over to the US and rerolling with wild abandon at official tournies, all the while rubbing it in on us former colonials with their lisping accents. Dark days indeed...

Latest news:
Spend £100 get a re roll
Spend £200 get a Rickroll

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Corrode wrote:

sn0zcumb3r wrote:Another part of why GW is a money grabbing disrespectful company...

If a customer is loyal to GW and buys a whole lot of stuff he can be rewarded (GW's discretion) BY GW! Give him a free model or an awesome poster or a f$%^ng dice
If you give him a reroll at the tournament you are in fact giving him a reward at some elses expense.

The though that you can buy an outcome at a tournament is just unethical to me

It's Throne of Skulls, which is about as far from a real tournament as you can get. This will be one more dumb fun thing in a weekend of dumb fun things that nobody cares about. In the meantime, anyone running an actual tournament will continue to happily ignore it.

For the rest of you nancies getting all upset about this and going on about BUYING WHOLE UNITS BACK FROM THE DEAD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope_fallacy#The_slippery_slope_as_fallacy

It's unsporting.

As to the slippery slope, you're likely right. But... Consider microtransactions in MMO games, coupled with GW being run by people with no interest in the gaming or 'The Hhhhhhobby' and it's not in the realms of far flung imagination.

The brilliance that is micro-transactions is much too much like solid business sense for GW to embrace!

I guess having not set foot in a GW store in probably half a year now I just don't see the fuss. Maybe there's some poor souls playing high-end competitive games in their local GW but that's not been my experience.

Kilkrazy wrote:Everyone who doesn't like this new system, just don't play at your local GW.

Let the big spenders use up their re-rolls on each other.

This.

And for crying out loud, it's GW Spain. How many of you play in GW Spain stores? Have you ever seen a few Spanish women? They gotta do something to get people into the stores.

Also, as someone that is in a GW Store 3+ times a week for 5+ hours, I never play a game in GW Stores.

But at least you kids are running out of things to rage about for a day or two. I guess that's progress.

So what if it is in Spain? It is still a crap idea
Again I see no rage, just a lot of extracting of urine.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:So what if it is in Spain? It is still a crap idea
Again I see no rage, just a lot of extracting of urine.

What does "extracting of urine" mean? Is that some sort of Queen's English saying?

It´s a stupid idea because as somebody said before why the need for a GW middleman?
If we are going this way (not that I think we will nor do I care as I don´t play in "official" places) for each 5€ my opponent gives me I´ll crumble a rank of skellies, for 50€ my TG will charge the flank of a unit of their choosing and for 100€ Khalida jumps ship and kills the Hierophant

M

Well fortunately they can't pull these shenanigans in Australia because there are no GW run-tournaments here in the land down under.

At the GW sometimes there are 'giffles' with prizes like framed artworks (which in reality are just print-offs) and on occasion there are 'tournaments' (a term I use very loosely in this circumstance) in store (which are pretty much a joke) which require a $5/$10 entry fee which all goes towards a gift voucher for the winner.

Thankfully they have not stooped to the level of allowing those with money to get bonuses, but I fear this might become a reality in the near future. I just hope the Storm of Magic Campaign doesn't go this way...

Well, i'm not going to spain to play 40k any time soon, so I suppose i'm safe from the terror! THE TERROR!

Seriously though, id rather just get some free dice lumped in with my order than a reroll.

Extracting the urine = Taking the mock
polite form of saying taking the pee.

To mock, make fun of.

Precisely Gp, how much would it cost them to chuck a bag of dice in with the receipt for an order over 100Euros?
Makes far more sense as a goodwill gesture.