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I hope this is real. It will set a precedent and I'll start selling re-rolls in games I play. And instead of charging 100 euro for one die, I'll charge a measly $20/die and let them re-roll any and all dice they want.

Already the forged chits are appearing on eBay

Sidstyler wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:If you think that Warhammer 40k is a game that needs to be taken seriously I suggest you take a deep breath and go take a walk outside and enjoy the fresh air and the sunshine.

For the amount of money it requires to get started up? Yeah, I'd argue that 40k should probably be taken a little more seriously than that. Especially by the company who made the damn game.

No one's saying 40k should be treated like life and fething death, but I'd like to think that for the money I've spent on the hobby that it's just a little bit above Chutes and Ladders...

Can you take some of 40k seriously? Sure, it requires actual skill to paint or assemble stuff. Some of the books have very little literary value and sometimes people take the fluff too seriously. (You know who you are).

And I'd argue that the amount of money spent is the only thing that really separates 40k from chutes and ladders. In fact, I'd argue that chutes and ladders has more depth than 40k.

This wouldn't be such a big deal if people didn't take everything in life with such offence. A ton of people on this thread act like Games Workshop insulted their mother or something.

Since 40k is such serious business, I am outraged at this shocking and horrifying development.

Surely, since the loser of every GW sanctioned game of Space Manz is immediately put to death, the very idea of altering the outcome of even one die roll is, to put it mildly, offensive. I demand that every GW Employee be fired at the very least, and I would go so far as to say that drawing and quartering the upper management wouldn't be outside the scope of punishment for the perpetration of such wanton madness.

I for one will never be playing any GW game again. I am soaking my models and Black Library novels in lighter fluid as I type this and will be smashing my computer to smithereens so as to obliterate all traces of the various Dawn of War expansions contained therein. Then I will climb atop my accelerant-soaked ruin of a hobby a set it alight, immolating myself in protest of this crime against humanity.

Buzzsaw wrote:That... was kinda my point. GW games are a joke, incapable of being taken seriously even by the people that make them.

Hmm, as a sort-of-outsider (I don't play tournaments and there's no GW store in my vicinity) I would think the "problem" isn't the seriousness - it's just that things like these come along as ... hmm, how to put it, unsportsmanlike? Imagine you playing cards at the pub and the owner lets others re-draw bad cards based on how much money they spent on their drinks. It just doesn't seem to fit to the spirit of a friendly game and is eroding the very reason for why there's things like rulebooks. Furthermore, it favors people with a big wallet, in a game that one might say is already expensive enough.

I dunno. As I said, I don't even play in such games, but if I would, I'd feel cheated if such purchased re-rolls would steal an honest victory. Sure, it's just a game (and Emperor knows I'm standing more in the "style over substance" zone anyways), but that doesn't change that we probably all enjoy winning.

I'm not sure why such a move has to be defended when there are alternatives for such a bonus scheme that have no negative effect on anyone. Such as, say, free blisters. A GW lottery ticket. A coupon for a couple bits of your choice... (etc)

I want to say that i would be surprised or that this was a joke or something, but then again this is GW we are speaking about, they are not above a stunt like this...

Some of you might believe you spend 100 Euros for the die roll alone.

It's if you buy 100 Euros worth of product, you get a die roll....so really the die roll costs nothing (Other than forgoing your normal 20% discount online).

I think this is done because of the serious economic stress that is going on in Spain (as well as in Portugal), such as a 21% unemployment rate.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-21/imf-sees-considerable-risks-to-spain-economy-urges-additional-overhauls.html

For Portugal:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14038529

40K is a luxury that goes beyond luxury games. Games stores in that region have to still bring their month to month quota improvement (if possible) regardless how managers are restricted on what worked in the past (such as raffles and other incentives that were done a few years ago.).

Monster Rain wrote:I for one will never be playing any GW game again. I am soaking my models and Black Library novels in lighter fluid as I type this and will be smashing my computer to smithereens so as to obliterate all traces of the various Dawn of War expansions contained therein. Then I will climb atop my accelerant-soaked ruin of a hobby a set it alight, immolating myself in protest of this crime against humanity.

Yes, please do that.

Haters gonna hate.

I will let any opponent of mine re-roll a dice for a twix or a Dr. Pepper. Alternatively I am selling wins vs. myself for 10 dollars.

In fact if you have paypal I wil declare you the victor right now for Three dollars and Fifty cents!

Victories! Get them while they are hot!

Beyond GW being doing this for their most "loyal" customers.

i could see use for this else where. This would be a great idea at a charity tournament. Re-rolls for 10$

I remember something like this... at a Warmachine event, I think?

You brought in a can of food for charity, and you got either a reroll or the chance to add an extra die.

Needless to say, a LOT of food was donated to charity that day.

Warboss Gubbinz wrote:Beyond GW being doing this for their most "loyal" customers.

i could see use for this else where. This would be a great idea at a charity tournament. Re-rolls for 10$

Doubt it would happen. We ARE talking about Games Workshop you know.

infinite_array wrote:I remember something like this... at a Warmachine event, I think?

You brought in a can of food for charity, and you got either a reroll or the chance to add an extra die.

Needless to say, a LOT of food was donated to charity that day.

Yeah, I think the Breast Cancer Brawl had something similar.

Donate a given amount of money and you get some rerolls.

The differences: The money went to charity, and it was only for that one tourney were everyone knew that was going to happen.
If I understand it correctly you basicly get a card that says "reroll a dice at a Store/Tournament" when spending more than X, am I correct? And you can use said card at any time?

Vimes wrote:
If I understand it correctly you basicly get a card that says "reroll a dice at a Store/Tournament" when spending more than X, am I correct? And you can use said card at any time?

Yup... this defiantly seems like a money making scheme.

I wonder if they think anyone will actually spend 100-250 euros just to get the rerolls? Or will it be more like, 'Hey, I just accidentally spent $250 at my local GW store, and they just gave me a reroll at... any official GW tournament? Oh god why am I spending all this money. "

Do they even have tournaments in Spain?

I was listening to some wargaming podcast (I can't remember which one) where it was mentioned that at a local (non-GW) tournament they were selling re-rolls for charity.

I think this is great idea for a fun, non-cutthroat type event...but eh, GW...not so much.

Monster Rain wrote:Since 40k is such serious business, I am outraged at this shocking and horrifying development.

Surely, since the loser of every GW sanctioned game of Space Manz is immediately put to death, the very idea of altering the outcome of even one die roll is, to put it mildly, offensive. I demand that every GW Employee be fired at the very least, and I would go so far as to say that drawing and quartering the upper management wouldn't be outside the scope of punishment for the perpetration of such wanton madness.

I for one will never be playing any GW game again. I am soaking my models and Black Library novels in lighter fluid as I type this and will be smashing my computer to smithereens so as to obliterate all traces of the various Dawn of War expansions contained therein. Then I will climb atop my accelerant-soaked ruin of a hobby a set it alight, immolating myself in protest of this crime against humanity.

Quoted...for so much damn truth...

In all honesty, who cares? Really...

Gas stations (at least the ones I go to) offer me 15 cents off per gallon if I get a car wash with the gas... Those cheating swine(s?)!

Seriously, this is not encouraging cheating. All this is doing, if anything, is trying to give people a bonus for spending an obviously large amount. And besides, even IF someone showed up with one of those cards, I doubt the TO would really let that slide in a tournament. And if you're playing someone casually who tries to pop that card on you you're always welcome to pack up and not play... If someone was "dumb" or, in more realistic terms, willing to spend 100 Euro at my store I'd go ahead and give 'em some kind of perk, maybe not a re-roll, but you know, something like a free brush or something.

The sewweous argument is missing the point.

GW in Spain are giving away scotch mist.
IMHO if you are going to the trouble of having a board made up for a "promotion", you may as well be promoting a tangible offer rather than paying for something declaring a sad joke.

SkaerKrow wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:If it's a campaign then you're going to be adding new units/bulking up forces anyway, so it's just an extra bonus.

If not, well, it sucks but that's what it is. I'm not denying there are some cons to the idea, however overall it's a good one.

I don't have a problem with a minor rule like that being used in a store sponsored campaign, since campaigns are played for fun and rarely involve strong competition or prize support. However, does the guy that spent $500 in one month have any less right to play on a store's tables than a guy that spent $500 in ten months? This idea that you have to be constantly spending to support a store is ludicrous, and it really goes a long way to devalue the patronage of customers who have already completed their armies/figure collections.

Both players have an equal right to play on the tables. I'm not sure why you've drawn the conclusion that only people who've made a recent purchase can use a table. Not true. Anyone can.

Buzzsaw wrote:

Corrode wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Kriswall wrote:This sort of thing is pretty standard. The GW nearest me just wrapped up a 2 month campaign with bonuses. If you purchased a unit in the store to use in the campaign, you got to pick a random card from a deck. Each card corresponded to a bonus... +1S, reroll attacks, etc. There were a ton of different bonuses. That unit would keep the bonus throughout the campaign.

See, I think this is cool and a really good way of encouraging people to buy from the store. So in reality, the people who'd have less luck would be the people who don't support the store they're playing at, which I'm cool with.

Personally I think the whole business about paying 100 euros for a re-roll is pretty hilarious. If I'm playing against some Neck-beard who paid 100 euros so that he could re-roll his Lascannon's penetration dice against my Leman Russ, I'd welcome it. Because in the end, the jakes are on him, not me. I can go on with my life and go have a fun evening afterward with the ~150 dollars I didn't spend on a re-roll, and the neckbeard just spent an absurd amount of money to win a toy soldier game.

This is, ironically, a great example of why people are upset about the idea of being able to buy such perquisites; they are an unambiguous affirmation that the game is a joke, one that even the people that put it out can't take seriously.

Think that is putting it to far? Try and imagine selling something equivalent, say, the ability to take back a move or add time to your clock at a ranked chess tournament, or the ability to draw an extra card once in a game at a ranked MtG tournament.

Do none of you people have fun with the game any more? A random in-store game is just that, a fun kickabout. Official GW tournaments are jokes which no-one takes seriously. It's not even close to comparable to a ranked chess tournament.

That... was kinda my point. GW games are a joke, incapable of being taken seriously even by the people that make them. This is in contrast to chess or MtG, which can be played at many levels; dead serious or pants-on-head. GW games only have the pants-on-head speed.

As Sid points out, the people who have invested hundreds or thousands in the game sometimes find this hard to swallow.

At the same time, the "it's a crappy, unserious game that can't be played seriously" isn't... well, it isn't really a heck of an endorsement, eh?

GW are primarily concerned with hobbyists and kids who want to come in, kick some Space Marines around for an afternoon and go home happy. Something like this is a promotion that will appeal to them because it'll help when their Super Space Marine misses his Super Space Marine Attack. The people who take this stuff seriously - who play in real tournaments with proper scoring systems, who built and convert beautiful armies that require real skill to create, who think about things like a meta-game and theoryhammer - those aren't the target audience for this and never will be. All it'll achieve is to make some little Juan or Jimenez smile when Marneus El Calgario hits one more attack than he should have in their 1000pt half-painted store game, while Pablo el Tournamento is busy buying his stuff for Maelstrom and probably never even seeing this promotion exists.

Who is gonna drop a ton just for a re roll of the cubes?
note that is re roll singular.

Reading this thread is great fun. The amount of nerdrage occurring over a simple re-roll is hilarious.

In the end, a lot of this comes down to the fact that hobby communities can be very different. I play at a local GW. My community has one rule... everyone has fun. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say, "I lost, but the game was a lot of fun". This re-roll or the cards for stats thing adds an element of fun and chance to the game. We would embrace it. We don't look up tournament lists online. We don't allow neckbeards to destroy kids in a friendly game. We do everything we can to welcome new members into the group. We resolve rules disputes by rolling a d6 and then we forget about the dispute minutes later.

Other communities have very different priorities. Some communities are only interested in competitive play, such as tournaments, with a victory being the only option. In my experience, the losers go home unhappy and angry with themselves in such an environment. Any modification to the rules is probably unwelcome here. If you fit in this category, control your nerdrage for a second or two and realize that some people just enjoy a good game and don't really care if their opponent re-rolls a die.

Secondly, there is something to be said for a "pay where you play" mentality. Someone asked if a person who had recently made a purchase had more right to a store's resources than a person who no longer had to make any purchases as he or she had already bought everything they need. GW doesn't make a distinction. Everyone is allowed to use the tables, etc. so long as they are available. If there is an event running, you might have to sign up for it. However, the person who never makes a purchase must understand that he or she is no longer a customer, but merely someone who hangs out in the store and contributes nothing to the future existence of the store. This works for GW or any other FLGS out there. If everyone behaved this way, or everyone purchased things online for a discount, there would soon be no more brick and mortar stores you could walk into. They would all go out of business.

I know I'm just feeding the trolls here, but seriously folks... if you hate GW so much, move on with your lives. Find something productive to do. Spending so much time online complaining about something is sad and pathetic. You have the choice to walk away. Find something that brings joy into your life. Let those of us who want to have some fun, have some.

Why is reasonable criticism deemed "nerdrage" and "hate"?

Because some people can't accept the ideas of others, I don't see buying re-rolls as a feasible way to keep the game going and just increases the image that the Game is all about money. This could lead to cases where you can revive dead units after paying a massive amount of money.

I don't think I would accept the validity of someone's 'free reroll' ticket whether I was in their store or not. Why should I accept it?

Maybe if my opponent was prepared to bung *me* £100 I would change my mind.

Reasonable criticism isn't nerdrage or hate.

But wild claims like 'rich kids will just buy hundreds of rerolls and destroy the game' and 'if you don't buy models in the shop you can't play on a shop table', whilst neither nerdrage nor hate are respectively silly and untrue.

Another part of why GW is a money grabbing disrespectful company...

If a customer is loyal to GW and buys a whole lot of stuff he can be rewarded (GW's discretion) BY GW! Give him a free model or an awesome poster or a f$%^ng dice
If you give him a reroll at the tournament you are in fact giving him a reward at some elses expense.

The though that you can buy an outcome at a tournament is just unethical to me

blood reaper wrote:Because some people can't accept the ideas of others, I don't see buying re-rolls as a feasible way to keep the game going and just increases the image that the Game is all about money. This could lead to cases where you can revive dead units after paying a massive amount of money.

Jumpin' Jesus on a Pogo Stick! Of course it's about money. Why, in the name of all that's holy in the world, would you think otherwise? They are a publicly traded company, and as such, have a legal obligation to try and make as much money as possible for the stockholders. They would be remiss not to try anything and everything they can to get more money from us. I remember back when I realized corporations were greedy. I was 5. I got over it.

Also... reviving dead units after paying a massive amount of money? This is a natural consequence of being able to re-roll one isolated die roll? Excellent sensationalism. You should write for Fox News, sir. "Coming up next... a local gaming store recommends... Necromancy? Do you know what your kids are playing? Stay tuned for more!"

don't see buying re-rolls as a feasible way to keep the game going and just increases the image that the Game is all about money. This could lead to cases where you can revive dead units after paying a massive amount of money.

See actually you can’t but a re-roll. What you get, in one locale at the moment, is a re-roll or some other perk if you buy some product. that’s not actually the same as buying one outright.

Yes, if you could actually buy re-rolls, it could lead to cases where if you shell out £20 000 you can revive a dead unit. It could lead to a situation where if you have a GW sticker in your car window you get free parking at Games Day, it could lead to a situation where GW become such a mega-colossal multi-national company that Christmas Day is renamed There Is Only War day. But actually, if you could buy a re-roll for a tenner, would you? Would anyone? Okay, a couple of kids might somewhere. Do you really think that would matter given that it applies to GW run games only?