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good point about the dreadnaughts but I really want two dreadknights. If I give up the personal teleporter, I can get 2 more pallies and psy cannons in there. Maybe I can just deep strike them in with psy communion and homing beacon them in? Does the teleport beacon work for the dreadknight? If it counts as wearing terminator armor I suppose it could work.

I always thought a Paladin squad can benifit from an Inquisitor with a psycollum. That gives you a huge shooting advantage versus the mirror matchup and also any GK unit, troop or vehicle.

Paladins rock th/ss termies even b4 adding iquisitor, libby or whatever. espeacially if theyre still rockin their swords.

DarthDiggler wrote:I always thought a Paladin squad can benifit from an Inquisitor with a psycollum. That gives you a huge shooting advantage versus the mirror matchup and also any GK unit, troop or vehicle.

But you then lose the Librarian who is key to undoing the potential for low AP fire to hurt you. Yes, if you're tailoring, but not, I think, as part of a more broadly focused list.

The librarain only helps against low ap guns if you have cover to start with. Getting a 6+ in the open is not that good. If the Paladins are in cover, then they have a 4+ against low ap weapons. The librarian can make it one better. That equates to 1 saved wound every 6 times one gets through or a 16% improvement. Imo that's not saving the Paladins versus low ap weapons.

The Psycollum gimick will work against GK units and vehicles which are the most popular army. Space marine librarians (blood angel, vanilla, rune priests - all very popular) and the units they are attached to. Eldar farseers, walocks and units they attach to. Chaos daemon princes and librarians (not as popular right now).

You know where this could really work well would be in a team environment like the ATC or ETC where you could match up with an army.

they have a 4+ against low ap weapons. The librarian can make it one better. That equates to 1 saved wound every 6 times one gets through or a 16% improvement. Imo that's not saving the Paladins versus low ap weapons.

Proper use of cover is key to running a successful paladin list. But I think you misunderstand the difference between 3+ and 4+.

Say you have to take 12 saves. 4+ means you fail 6. 3+ means you fail 4. that's a 50% improvement, which is of great significance over the course of a game.

But regardless, the Librarian helps against (almost) every unit in every army, the psyocculum mainly against units already disadvantaged against GK. The psyocculum is a reasonable option for some armies but is no help to an army relying on a key unit in an expensive transport.

It's only a 33% improvement, 50% would be failing just 3 saves.

I forget the precise mathematical term, but 33% and 50% are converses of each other. IN one direction it's 33% in the other, it's 50%.

Point is, you're quibbling, the man's logic is solid.

I'm just pointing out a little error. I support his point, just wanted to drop them by.

Competitive yes.. weakness vs certain list types most assuredly

I watched my friends tournament IG list just destroy a Draigo Wing in two turns. How does a Draigo wing counter manticore spam and 8 chimeras filled with plasma and melta guns, and three vendettas on top of that? Especially when he screens his manticores with his chimeras? My friends list was paladins, darigo, librarian, and like 4 psyrifleman.

furbyballer wrote:I watched my friends tournament IG list just destroy a Draigo Wing in two turns. How does a Draigo wing counter manticore spam and 8 chimeras filled with plasma and melta guns, and three vendettas on top of that? Especially when he screens his manticores with his chimeras? My friends list was paladins, darigo, librarian, and like 4 psyrifleman.

Theyre gonna need luck, dice rolls, deployment etc cause in a pitched battle capture and control there isnt much hope if the IG guy is rolling well since Draigo a lot of Draigo lists are slow. Did the DW have any transports?

No, he kept one paladin squad off the table to deep strrike in as two combat squads to try and mitigate the losses on the first turn or so, but his one paly squad and dreads just got screwed by the two ordinance blasts a turn from the maticores. And then when the paldains deep striked in they were just picked off. But the answer was no, no transports.

furbyballer wrote:I watched my friends tournament IG list just destroy a Draigo Wing in two turns. How does a Draigo wing counter manticore spam and 8 chimeras filled with plasma and melta guns, and three vendettas on top of that? Especially when he screens his manticores with his chimeras? My friends list was paladins, darigo, librarian, and like 4 psyrifleman.

Well, the action plan is pretty clear. DS as close as possible to the chimeras (assuming manticores are screened) use shrouding and cover, use psycannons and psyflemen to open up the chimeras, and try to setup massive multicharge against at least a few guardsmen and as many unopened chimeras as possible. Use Might, dedicate as many attacks to chimeras as possible, finish off IG in their assault phase, and shoot and assault what's left the following turn.

That may work, or it may not. Not that I've faced that exact list, but I've been able to make it work against similar lists more often than not.

Ah well then there isnt much you can do vs IG there. Against that many shots and walking is pretty much a death sentence imo. I added sr to mine but I havent played a IG player yet. I have played Inquisition, DE, Crons and Tau.

In my experience mechanised weaklings spamming AP1 and 2 and ID don't like stormravening paladins up 'em much. But basically once you reach his lines, he's easy meat. The army to really fear is not chimera/manticore spam (though it's nasty and would indeed give a foot list a very hard time), It's 9 vendettas (27 TL lascannon, roughly 2/3 hitting, 5/6 wounding, 1/3 failing to cover save is a wiped paladin squad every turn). Even 6 vendettas is horrific. Fortunately I haven't yet played 9.

I don't have many problems with Draigowing when I play my mech eldar. I pretty much tank shock the squad out of cover and then shoot it to death with Fire Dragons. But in my last game I just tank shocked them until they failed their leadership test and escorted them off of the table. The guy had two of those new space marine flyers (I forget what they're called), three psyrifle dreads, a few other things I can't remember and a large ten man squad of Paladins.

I basically sat back and blew up his vehicles until the Paladin squad presented it's self, then I threw all of my tanks at it and eventually it broke and ran. I made sure to keep a tank close to them so they could not regroup and just escorted the squad off the table.

I know it probably wouldn't work every time but it is something to consider when playing them.

Lol I suddenly want to field 9 vendettas.... gdi that's alot of money....

can you actually turn that into some sort of viable list, Artemo?

At 2000 pts I think 9 Vendettas is feasible in an all-comers Weakling list.

Were I to lower myself to actually field weaklings myself I'd be tempted to run them in empty and field a company command with the orbital barrage thingy and reserve rerolls in a chimera with half a dozen or so (I'd have to look up the points) of verteran weaklings with meltas. I'll maybe see what it would look like later today if I've time.

How were vendettas in a GK list?

Tried out a poor 1000 point list against Necrons yesterday (Just Draigo 'n' ten Pallies...)

I got tabled by that Doom Ark thingy... Also held down in place by those rods that make terrain difficult (dangerous thanks to the C'Tan). I lost 3 pallies to dangerous terrain tests and everyone else bar Draigo to the Ark.

Draigo went down to the C'tan when he got into assault with one wound left.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:I don't have many problems with Draigowing when I play my mech eldar. I pretty much tank shock the squad out of cover and then shoot it to death with Fire Dragons. But in my last game I just tank shocked them until they failed their leadership test and escorted them off of the table. The guy had two vendettas, three psyrifle dreads, a few other things I can't remember and a large ten man squad of Paladins.

I basically sat back and blew up his vehicles until the Paladin squad presented it's self, then I threw all of my tanks at it and eventually it broke and ran. I made sure to keep a tank close to them so they could not regroup and just escorted the squad off the table.

I know it probably wouldn't work every time but it is something to consider when playing them.

You don't have to wait and escort them off (and take a chance on them psycannoning down a tank and regrouping).

When you tank shock a unit that's already falling back, they automatically fail their morale test without rolling. So, that means they fall back again immediately, over and over again.

I've run paladin units off the table from midfield in a single turn with multiple tank shocks.

Deadshot wrote:How were vendettas in a GK list?

I misnamed them. It's those new space marine flying things that look like they took the front end of a Thunderhawk and threw it onto the back end of a vendetta. Sorry. I fixed it in my earlier post.

@Flavius Infernus. Yeah, that's pretty much what I did. All I was waiting for was the stuff in front of the Paladins to get destroyed so they couldn't get rear shots on my tanks.

I think that 9/10 times all repeated tankshocking on an ld ten unit would just result in a massive roadblock nightmare centered around the paladins, who could then pull off a tasty multi-assault against like 3 tanks at once. And of course, driago's squad is fearless, so while you throw all of your vehicles at one squad, draigo just runs about wrecking face.

Draigos squad is not fearless. He is, but the paladins are not, and fearless is not transferred to the squad.

A little silly, actually.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:Draigos squad is not fearless. He is, but the paladins are not, and fearless is not transferred to the squad.

A little silly, actually.

Why? They can be scared.. not like they cleaved the warp in half lol sorry can't resist. ^ statement is correct though.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:Draigos squad is not fearless. He is, but the paladins are not, and fearless is not transferred to the squad.

A little silly, actually.

Draigo- "C'mon lads! Its only a Baneblade trying to drive us over!" Raagh! Charge!"

Paladins- " But Sir! There's a Baneblade trying to dirve over us!"

Draigo- "HOLY THRONE!!! THERE'S A BANEBLADE TRYING TO DRIVE OVER US! RUN, LADS, RUN, RUN!"

Deadshot wrote:

Sir_Prometheus wrote:Draigos squad is not fearless. He is, but the paladins are not, and fearless is not transferred to the squad.

A little silly, actually.

Draigo- "C'mon lads! Its only a Baneblade trying to drive us over!" Raagh! Charge!"

Paladins- " But Sir! There's a Baneblade trying to dirve over us!"

Draigo- "HOLY THRONE!!! THERE'S A BANEBLADE TRYING TO DRIVE OVER US! RUN, LADS, RUN, RUN!"

Doesn't each paladin have to wrestle a slanesh demon buck naked, one hand tied to an ankle and covered in K-Y or something? And they still have fear why?

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Bruteboss wrote:Draigowing are the best army in the game at killpoint missions

Blanket statement and in my experiences not true, in fact I find their lack of flexibility makes them easy to beat in Annihilation with mounted shooty armies; take a KP or two and then run away as they try to catch you in assault.

He actually gave a few good reasons for this just a bit more into the paragraph. Still, they're not that good once the Ravagers start swooping by...