Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

They would snap you like a twig.

Who, the Battle Sisters, or Melissia?

(Oh no, I'm going straight to hell for that one!)

Squigsquasher wrote:Who, the Battle Sisters, or Melissia?

Both.

Who would they break apart, me or Raven97?

Any who dared . . .

Lol tadashi

Think what do madre's do in there spare time?

Just combat training.

Lynata wrote:"The purpose of life is to suffer." - that's one hell of a dogma to live by (quite literally), and a very strong glimpse at their lifestyle.

To hell with that. I'm familiar with that piece from the 3rd edition rulebook, but I disregard any suggestion that it should be part of Adepta Sororitas doctrine. A willingness to suffer to achieve something - self sacrifice - is one thing. Suffering for suffering's sake is just Slaaneshi bs.

AlexHolker wrote:

Lynata wrote:"The purpose of life is to suffer." - that's one hell of a dogma to live by (quite literally), and a very strong glimpse at their lifestyle.

To hell with that. I'm familiar with that piece from the 3rd edition rulebook, but I disregard any suggestion that it should be part of Adepta Sororitas doctrine. A willingness to suffer to achieve something - self sacrifice - is one thing. Suffering for suffering's sake is just Slaaneshi bs.

I concur.

AlexHolker wrote:To hell with that. I'm familiar with that piece from the 3rd edition rulebook, but I disregard any suggestion that it should be part of Adepta Sororitas doctrine. A willingness to suffer to achieve something - self sacrifice - is one thing. Suffering for suffering's sake is just Slaaneshi bs.

They could be trying to achieve communion with the Emperor who suffered for Humanity. They could think it is their duty to suffer, for a thousand reasons ; it helps keeping idle thoughts at bay, it strengthens one's force of will...
Hey, they're religious nuts. Sanity needs not apply.

Actually the idea is that pain purifies the body just as prayer purifies the mind.

The suffering isn't there for its own sake, but to help remove impurities.

AlexHolker wrote:

Lynata wrote:"The purpose of life is to suffer." - that's one hell of a dogma to live by (quite literally), and a very strong glimpse at their lifestyle.

To hell with that. I'm familiar with that piece from the 3rd edition rulebook, but I disregard any suggestion that it should be part of Adepta Sororitas doctrine. A willingness to suffer to achieve something - self sacrifice - is one thing. Suffering for suffering's sake is just Slaaneshi bs.

It's not suffering in the sadomasochistic sense. It's suffering so that by enduring pain and hardship you define and enhance your faith. People in the real world do it all the time. The life of a real world nun is supposed to be that of self denial and servitude. Ascetic monks. It doesn't have to be as extreme as flagellants.

You have to remember, the Cult of the Emperor has a lot in common with Christianity in its basic structure, just like everything else in 40K has its foundation in real world or other derivative fiction. The Emperor died to save humanity and now lives as a god to protect them from harm. Sounds kinda like Jesus no? The Sororitas are religious nutballs. They have "faith powers". As much as that makes almost no sense in the greater context of the 40K universe, they do have them, which means they have to be pretty damned religious. I mean, people are free to, and do, imagine them as the Adeptus Sorority with pillow fights and group showers, but the realistic depiction of them isn't nearly as sexy. They're probably mostly beastly looking. This: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Cristiane_Santos.jpg is your real world equivalent Sororitas, lol. Not some wasp waisted poster girl nymph from the 40K propaganda art.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:The Emperor died to save humanity and now lives as a god to protect them from harm.

No, he didn't. The Emperor fought his son in battle to save humanity. It was Horus's death and not the Emperor's injuries that saved humanity.

Look you can pick apart the details all you want (died, or mortally wounded and all but dead and rotting on the Golden Throne), but the basic framework of the Cult is the same. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

After all, it wasn't Jesus's death that saved humanity, it was his willing sacrifice.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:After all, it wasn't Jesus's death that saved humanity, it was his willing sacrifice.

That's my point, it wasn't the Emperor's sacrifice that saved humanity, it was him killing somebody.

Again with the semantics. You're missing the bigger picture while you stare at the small details. The truth of the matter is, the Emperor "died" fighting Horus, and those mortal wounds were what caused him to be interred in the GOlden Throne to ascend to what is essentially a god-like status to serve as the savior of mankind. Yeah, he wasn't crucified by the Romans at the behest of angry Jews. Thanks for letting us all know. I'm glad you're on top of it. Good lord. Where's that face-slapping Ork smilie when you need him?

And it would be very easy for the Cult of the Emperor to spin the story. We know exactly what happened because we have dozens of real world books to read and tell us what happened. The average citizen of the Imperium knows only what they were told.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:People in the real world do it all the time. The life of a real world nun is supposed to be that of self denial and servitude. Ascetic monks. It doesn't have to be as extreme as flagellants.

Though flagellants are a pretty neat comparison, actually. I mean, somehow you got to go from this to this.

And for the people who deem it silly ... remember we are talking about 40k here, where everything, including religious zeal, is deliberately exaggerated for Greater Grimdark. The fact that flagellantism actually existed (or still does) in real life only makes it seem all the more plausible, with the Codex-mentioned "mortifications of the flesh" and being a pretty strong hint at it, too. Melissia's above comment regarding the purifying effect of pain originates from a GW source as well, by the way. It's from a sermon by Arch-Confessor Ganinimus as noted in one of the Sisters' codices as well as a WD article, if memory serves correctly.
Hyd's theory about achieving communion is pretty strong as well (after all, the Canoness in the rulebook did talk about "becoming one with the Emperor's eternal suffering"). I suppose we could list a number of reasons as to why it makes "sense".


@VSgt: If there were such an option, I'd upvote your recent posts in this thread.

Regarding the Sisters' faith powers - the most recent rules sadly makes this interpretation somewhat less valid (given that their benefits apply even to vehicles now), but I used to prefer thinking of them as a mixture of luck and sheer determination. Basically them being so focused on their holy duties that some of them can disregard "minor inconveniences" like grisly wounds that would have normal IG troops writhe in pain yelling for a medic, or overpowering an opponent by acting with utter disregard for their own safety. Basically, the same zeal that led to medieval Crusaders or WW2 SS units having attained a reputation for fighting to the last man (even if I'm sure that this was a little exaggerated, but you get the idea).
Like you, I feel that actual "holy powers" fit well into the setting ... though the 5E Minidex makes it somewhat hard for me to see an alternative.

Tehre is such an option. "Exalt this post +1". Right next to the friend and ignore buttons,

Ah, I completely forgot about this new feature - thanks for reminding me.

Still, I recall we could only do this a limited amount of times, so I have a feeling it should be reserved for "posts containing valuable information deserving to be preserved for the future" rather than something where I simply agree with the contents or find it worded humorously...
(how many times can we exalt, anyways?)

Apologies for this bit of off-topic.

Melissia wrote:Actually the idea is that pain purifies the body just as prayer purifies the mind.

The suffering isn't there for its own sake, but to help remove impurities.

And as seen in the Salamaders novels one must be vigilant lest it becomes a massocistic crutch (*)......as also happened historically. Something that I imagine the Sisterhood watch carefully for?

(*)

Mr Morden wrote:Something that I imagine the Sisterhood watch carefully for?

Yes. Sisters are constantly vigilant for signs of corruption, more than any other faction in the Imperium save the Inquisition itself, except their vigilance polices internally unlike the inquisition.

Mr Morden wrote:

Melissia wrote:Actually the idea is that pain purifies the body just as prayer purifies the mind.

The suffering isn't there for its own sake, but to help remove impurities.

And as seen in the Salamaders novels one must be vigilant lest it becomes a massocistic crutch (*)......as also happened historically. Something that I imagine the Sisterhood watch carefully for?

(*)

Spoiler:

Salamanders brand themselves (or have themslves branded) with intricate designs to remember or commorate important events - they can also wipe the slate clean in disgrace by further branding errasing these previous marks. in the novels at least one of their Chapter begins to need the pain this inflicts more and more to centre his mind whihc leads to BAD things...

The Imperial Fists are also sort of famous for it, using the pain glove to clear their mind.

What about hobbies or helping the local population?
Is there some info on that? Maybe BL novels?

Brother Coa wrote:What about hobbies or helping the local population?
Is there some info on that? Maybe BL novels?

In terms of "hobbies", GW material is pretty strict in that it outright claims that they either fight, train, study or pray. Though personally, I would say that the latter three things could be expanded upon, or "personalized" to an individual Sister. Some may prefer to spend countless hours in the scriptorium to study ancient holy texts, others have a habit of visiting the cloister garden or meditating in front of a saint's statue, yet others may wish to focus on their training of the ancient martial arts of the San Leor temple, and then there may be a few flagellants who seek to cleanse themselves of sins (be them real or imagined) or achieve spiritual climax and gain a vision or some such thing.

I like to believe that such things depend on a Sister's role with her Order as well as an inkling of personality left (or established!) after all the indoctrination. Like Space Marines, they probably have a daily schedule that doesn't leave much room, but I'm sure things can be arranged by gaining permission from the Superior or the Canoness. Or maybe they do even have an hour or two at their own disposal, as long as they spend it in a way that conforms to the strict rules of the Sororitas. Concerning all of this, looking to real life nuns and their daily routine in a cloister for inspiration might be worth the time.

As far as the local population is concerned, I'd say this is the area of the Orders Hospitaller, although GW sources only mention them in combination with war zones. Yet, given that the Orders Militant occasionally provide protection to pilgrim routes, it seems likely that the Hospitallers may also be found there, offering a minimum of medical aid or rations to the masses of the faithful ("drop in the ocean"-style).
Delving into licensed material, the novel "Faith & Fire" also has a mission of Hospitallers aid a bunch of malnourished/sick civilian miners on some moon.

It should also not be forgotten that the Sororitas live extremely isolated lives, so interaction with the outside world - even for benefitial purposes - would be limited to officially sanctioned assignments. You won't have some individual Sister venture outside the walls of her abbey to give food to a bunch of hobos.

Brother Coa wrote:What about hobbies or helping the local population?

With the exception of the Ciaphas Cain novel (because Sandy Mitchel cannot write a likable religiously devout character to save his life), there isn't any evidence that they have hobbies save for perhaps singing the Emperor's prayer and other things dedicated to devotion towards the emperor.

As I see it from what I have read, the actual gun totting, flamer using "Sisters of Battle" are a fairly small number compared to the over all number of the various Sororitas in the Ecclesiarchy throughout their numerous orders. So to me that means that there can be "Sisters" doing several civilian side service projects but not waste the precious training hours of the "Sisters Militant" as they are not the same individuals.
Different duties, different focus. Sister Mary Black&Decker is helping build the new orphanage while Sister Mary Heavy-Flamer is out burning witches and heretics.

What off-time?

Zakiriel wrote:So to me that means that there can be "Sisters" doing several civilian side service projects but not waste the precious training hours of the "Sisters Militant" as they are not the same individuals.

They send "precious hours" doing OTHER training.

And you're acting like those that aren't members oft he Orders Militant aren't actually Sisters.

If so, you're wrong. They are Sisters-- just not Sisters of Battle. They are the Sisters Hospitaller (the best medics and doctors in the Imperium bar none), Sisters Famulous (who manage the noble houses, track breeding of said houses, make sure nobles pay tithes, etc), Sisters Dialogous (by far the best omniglots in the Imperium), and so on. There's also other innumerable minor orders which have entirely separate duties.

All of these train unrelentingly for their duties, and do NOT train less than the Sisters of Battle do.

I just think they're totally badass. i acknowledge that they are usually potrayed as pretty, but i think they're pretty in a badass way.

Melissia wrote:

Zakiriel wrote:So to me that means that there can be "Sisters" doing several civilian side service projects but not waste the precious training hours of the "Sisters Militant" as they are not the same individuals.

They send "precious hours" doing OTHER training.

And you're acting like those that aren't members oft he Orders Militant aren't actually Sisters.

If so, you're wrong. They are Sisters-- just not Sisters of Battle. They are the Sisters Hospitaller (the best medics and doctors in the Imperium bar none), Sisters Famulous (who manage the noble houses, track breeding of said houses, make sure nobles pay tithes, etc), Sisters Dialogous (by far the best omniglots in the Imperium), and so on. There's also other innumerable minor orders which have entirely separate duties.

All of these train unrelentingly for their duties, and do NOT train less than the Sisters of Battle do.

Apothecaries are better battle-field surgeons than Sister Hospitallers, while Librarians know more and have greater access to information. The latter is thanks to the Astartes' connections to the Mechanicus, the fact that a Chapter is semi-autonomous and can keep the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition at arms-length allowing them more information that would be considered heretical in other Imperial organizations. And don't say that's good reason for the Inquisition to be suspicious (although that's a valid point) since the Emperor Himself gave the Astartes semi-autonomy during the great Crusade. The only Imperial organization above the Astartes are the High Lords of Terra, and even the Inquisition has to show restraint when dealing with the Astartes.

Tadashi wrote:Apothecaries are better battle-field surgeons than Sister Hospitallers,

No, they're just operating on someone that's harder to kill. Otherwise you might as well say Ork Painboys are the best surgeons of all.

Back to the original question, I favour the idea of portraying the Sisters more like people to better contrast them with the psycho-indoctrinated, abhuman freaks, though I don't know about the implementation.