Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

mattyrm wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:
Currently she does some pretty high-level Yoga

Is there such a thing as "high level" Yoga!?

Aye, the class is on the seventh floor.

azazel the cat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:And my s/o is 5'7 and 110 lbs, and quite fit.

No, she is not. 5'7" 110lbs is unhealthily underweight. She's not "fit" by any means.

Even a very small framed woman at 5'7" should be at least 125-135 pounds to be healthy. Her weight would make sense if she was five foot nothing, but not at 5'7".

Yeah, she hears fat chicks say that to her all the time. Yet she used to compete at the National level for Volleyball. Currently she does some pretty high-level Yoga, and distance-running, too.

I think you've got a skewed understanding of what it constitutes to be fat.

Is there such a thing as "high level" Yoga!?

I would say so definitely ! My GF is a yoga teacher, and if I was forced into some of those poses I think my spine would snap in half!

And she can levitate and breathe fire

mattyrm wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:
Currently she does some pretty high-level Yoga

Is there such a thing as "high level" Yoga!?

Hot yoga is Yoga done in a 100 degree room, so that could be high level.

Other than that, I'm as confuzzled as you are, Matty.

Castiel wrote:

mattyrm wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:
Currently she does some pretty high-level Yoga

Is there such a thing as "high level" Yoga!?

Aye, the class is on the seventh floor.

The old ones are the best.

dogma wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:And my s/o is 5'7 and 110 lbs, and quite fit.

No, she is not. 5'7" 110lbs is unhealthily underweight. She's not "fit" by any means.

Even a very small framed woman at 5'7" should be at least 125-135 pounds to be healthy. Her weight would make sense if she was five foot nothing, but not at 5'7".

Yeah, she hears fat chicks say that to her all the time. Yet she used to compete at the National level for Volleyball. Currently she does some pretty high-level Yoga, and distance-running, too.

I think you've got a skewed understanding of what it constitutes to be fat.

Agreed. She's at least 15 pounds underweight, even with a small frame.

And perhaps it's not just fat chicks. Even strangers on the internet think he's a bit small.

I more or less see her as an incredibly successful cosplay.

Can't help but think the hate is because girls/women have been told for the last 20 years that it's okay if they don't look like this (and it is) but now the means to actually make yourself look like this are generally obtainable. Is this basically a reflection of an upping intensity in the cosmetic arms race?

Bottom line, the body is a bombshell. The face is a bit artificial/cartoonish/obviously fake, but some of that is intentional; no doubt a less-heavy makeup application and less doll-like poses would have her drop several factors of creepy while retaining the overall physical appeal.

That assumes that the hate just began now, which is most certainly wrong. It was there twenty years ago, too, to be sure.

Melissia wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:And my s/o is 5'7 and 110 lbs, and quite fit.

No, she is not. 5'7" 110lbs is unhealthily underweight. She's not "fit" by any means.

You really can't make this statement without examining the individual and taking her on an individual basis. Your assertion is correct for a bell curve but she could easily be the .1% of individuals in the tail.

Using BMI measures, every NBA star would be obese and many top-performing powerlifters would be morbidly obese. The individual in contention could simply be the inverse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:That assumes that the hate just began now, which is most certainly wrong. It was there twenty years ago, too, to be sure.

Pretty much been around since the 60s, or at least this modern retypification of it. Humanity in general dislikes the 'elites', whether it's physical, financial, or intellectual.

sourclams wrote:Using BMI measures, every NBA star would be obese

The BMI wasn't really what I was using, but yes, the BMI doesn't work for athletes, this is well known.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sourclams wrote:Pretty much been around since the 60s, or at least this modern retypification of it. Humanity in general dislikes the 'elites', whether it's physical, financial, or intellectual.

That isn't what is motivating this.

mattyrm wrote:Is there such a thing as "high level" Yoga!?

Yeah, there is. To compare it to martial arts, it would be the same idea as the difference between a white belt and a black belt, for example.

Chowderhead wrote:

dogma wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:And my s/o is 5'7 and 110 lbs, and quite fit.

No, she is not. 5'7" 110lbs is unhealthily underweight. She's not "fit" by any means.

Even a very small framed woman at 5'7" should be at least 125-135 pounds to be healthy. Her weight would make sense if she was five foot nothing, but not at 5'7".

Yeah, she hears fat chicks say that to her all the time. Yet she used to compete at the National level for Volleyball. Currently she does some pretty high-level Yoga, and distance-running, too.

I think you've got a skewed understanding of what it constitutes to be fat.

Agreed. She's at least 15 pounds underweight, even with a small frame.




And perhaps it's not just fat chicks. Even strangers on the internet think he's a bit small.

And strangers on the Internet are always the ones who know best!
Your own judgements are likely based on two irritating principles:
1) BMI scores, which have been invalidated for a very long time. (Michael Jordan was considered seriously overweight during the years he won his NBA championship rings according to BMI scales, for example)
2) Overweight people (usually women) attempting to make themselves feel better about their own flabby body image by putting her down.



EDIT: @ SourClams: Ah! Thank you! Someone else gets it, on both counts!

azazel the cat wrote:Your own judgements are likely based on two irritating principles:

Neither.

Melissia wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Your own judgements are likely based on two irritating principles:

Neither.

Ah, but you are making a sweeping generalization without any evidence. Perhaps you would like to explain yourself, then?

azazel the cat wrote:
And strangers on the Internet are always the ones who know best!

Sometimes, we are.

Your own judgements are likely based on two irritating principles:

Not mine, medical scientists who are experts in their fields.

1) BMI scores, which have been invalidated for a very long time. (Michael Jordan was considered seriously overweight during the years he won his NBA championship rings according to BMI scales, for example)

I wasn't using BMI. I'm using the average weight of 5'7" women with a slim, athletic build. It's 126-132 pounds, according to the insurance company MetLife.

2) Overweight people (usually women) attempting to make themselves feel better about their own flabby body image by putting her down.

Fat Jokes. Really.

That's low.

Not a joke. Merely stating a factual observation.

And insurance companies operate on bell curve averages, not case-by-case bases

Melissia wrote:That isn't what is motivating this.

The catalyst is the extreme artificiality of her look, assisted by what is quantitatively an extremely artificial body.

What's keeping the vitriole high is undoubtedly the extent to which she's pulled this off. If you wanted to tailor-build the 'American Ideal' to add to some online spank-bank, she pretty much nails it. It looks like she's been physically engineered into a sexual object. To an entire generation of women that have heard that 'being natural is still pretty', this unnatural -- but borderline physically perfect body -- is pretty much rage-inducing to the even slightly insecure. The good news is, they can do it too, all it takes is money, which is probably what puts 'normal' people over the edge.

sourclams wrote:
Using BMI measures, every NBA star would be obese and many top-performing powerlifters would be morbidly obese.

There's a fairly good argument that obesity should be determined without regard for body composition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

azazel the cat wrote:
2) Overweight people (usually women) attempting to make themselves feel better about their own flabby body image by putting her down.

I like this one. Nothing better than boosting one's own body image by claiming criticism of your body image is based on other people trying to boost their own body image while citing your own criticism of their body image.

azazel the cat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Your own judgements are likely based on two irritating principles:

Neither.

Ah, but you are making a sweeping generalization without any evidence. Perhaps you would like to explain yourself, then?

I was not using BMI, but rather, "Met Life" tables, a range of weights for women of various body frames (small, medium, and large frames to be specific) based on mortality rates and general health of the person who has that weight.

And to point out the flaws that I know of for this table, this is used mostly for non-athletes between 25-59, as athletes have their own measures of weight and health based off of their activities, and their use for youths is dubious because they're based off of information collected by health and life insurance agencies (which most youths don't have). The tables also don't work very well for those who are taller than average (especially males), but as the girlfriend was shorter than average this was not an issue. And of course, as the heights and weights of people are gradually increasing over the generations, the chart will need to be revised, but for now it works for women of average or below average height, or men of below average height.

Course, all other tables have similar amounts of problems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

azazel the cat wrote:Not a joke.

Good, because it wasn't funny. Mostly just stupid.

Chowderhead wrote:I wasn't using BMI. I'm using the average weight of 5'7" women with a slim, athletic build. It's 126-132 pounds, according to the insurance company MetLife.

You're substituting one general index with another.

When my wife and I met, she was 120 lbs with a slim build, low overall muscle tone, and could have easily shed weight from her hips, glutes, and thighs, probably 5+ pounds, without looking the least bit emaciated.

A high-level yoga practitioner who also plays competitive volleyball who might also be genetically predisposed to a willowy build pretty much blows 'average' indices, even average for a relatively high level of fitness, out of the water.

sourclams wrote:The catalyst is the extreme artificiality of her look, assisted by what is quantitatively an extremely artificial body.

What's keeping the vitriole high is undoubtedly the extent to which she's pulled this off. If you wanted to tailor-build the 'American Ideal' to add to some online spank-bank, she pretty much nails it. It looks like she's been physically engineered into a sexual object. To an entire generation of women that have heard that 'being natural is still pretty', this unnatural -- but borderline physically perfect body -- is pretty much rage-inducing to the even slightly insecure. The good news is, they can do it too, all it takes is money, which is probably what puts 'normal' people over the edge.

But that's not whats wrong about it is it? Why do you think people think its hideous to do that to yourself? You CAN look like that with a healthy diet and exercise. Of course for some people to get to that type of body, they need to do it at a more strict level than others. But you get that type of body by doing plastic surgery on an entire 50% of your body? That's not what it means to be healthy and attractive. What's the point of being attractive if you're not gonna make sure you're healthy? You SHOULDN'T need to pay money to keep yourself fit and sexy. It is an entirely free process when you have the ambition. Plastic surgery to force your body to look sexy, instead of shaping it is just plain lazy. Which unfortunately a huge part of first world countries think its okay to do. Not that it is wrong, but really? Instead of exercising, you do plastic surgery? 7000 years ago, that type of laziness didn't exist because those types don't survive.

Btw, to be fair, i think their body looks good...but like others have said, those eyes are creepy...its probably been the thousanth time I've said this, but japanese people and the people they inspire are weird.
Sorry if that's offensive, but I won't apologize for that statement

Pacific wrote:A wretched hole of depravity from which there can be no escape!

But you came back here to look at the real life Barbie again didn't you??!

Of course, I cant look away. Car wreck and all that

LumenPraebeo wrote:You CAN look like that with a healthy diet and exercise.

I don't think you can, actually. I mean, that's part of what resulted in the whole natural body phenomena; that it's almost genetically impossible to look like Barbie. "And that's O-kay".

Of course for some people to get to that type of body, they need to do it at a more strict level than others. But you get that type of body by doing plastic surgery on an entire 50% of your body? That's not what it means to be healthy and attractive. What's the point of being attractive if you're not gonna make sure you're healthy?

Honestly we don't know that she isn't physically healthy. We do know that she is more or less the perfect embodiment of her targeted definition of physical attractiveness, though, because that's exactly what SCIENCE! sculpted her into, voluntarily.

You SHOULDN'T need to pay money to keep yourself fit and sexy. It is an entirely free process when you have the ambition. Plastic surgery to force your body to look sexy, instead of shaping it is just plain lazy.

But that's what's RAEG-inducing. Nobody has to do this, but when someone does, and the results are basically , everybody gets pissed for a number of reasons:

1. unattractive, broke people get mad because they do not look like this and don't have access to the means to look like this. And I don't mean full-fledge barbie, but just have work done to up a '4' to a '7'
2. feminists get mad because this individual's idea of freedom of expression is to essentially cater to the body image that they've spent 50 years 'fighting' for freedom from
3. attractive people get mad because this was originally an attractive person who took it to the 'next level'; cosmetics arms race escalates if this is the new bar of competition
4. 'normal' women get mad because their s/o's would hit that so maybe they should look that way themselves?, and 'normal' men probably have somewhat a guilt trip because we'd definitely hit that
5. It's such an extreme of cosmetic-scaping that someone's teenage daughter might be more prone to ask for/expect surgical augmentation 'as long as she doesn't go as crazy about it as the living Barbie'

Just IMO, but I think that's why the public at large might care about this, moreso than some starlet getting a boobjob.

You might be able to if you had genetics for a very narrow waist.

Narrow waist, wide hips, and monstrous bust.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Amaya wrote:Yeah, when he weighed himself matters. I fluctuate upwards of 8-10lbs a day.

I always weigh myself in the same conditions in the morning.

I have fluctuated 1 Kg between one day and the next.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pacific wrote:

You call that Anime Eyes?

This is Anime Eyes!

Got it!


Meowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww~

'Anime eyes' thing was dated back to the early days of Manga prints. possibly post WW2 mangas.
By 1950s. Japan fully embraced American pop culture for the first time! never before had we seen a Japanese woman (usually H.O. ) dressing hollywood actress hairdo. and they have watched American-imported TV Cartoons for the first time. remember Disney's Mickey Mouse? , Looney toons's Bugs Bunny, and MGM's Tom & Jerry ? every characters seen in those flicks are all have a pair of oversized eyes! ... some Japs seen an opportunity to make 'Home-grown' cartoons had copied 'American cartoonish' looks into their own creations. the earliest Japanese 'cartoons' (example. the Big X) by then is an exact copies of Americans imports.
and those domestically created cartoons became popular! and the earliest 'formulae' of Anime (it was called 'Doga' by then) are
- Cartoonish eyes
- Oversized heads (almost SD)
- Every 'human' characters are all looks 'white' while carrying 'Japanese' identity !!! .. especially in case of technicolour flicks. This rules usually applies to protagonists. however, antagonists usually have more realistic, slant eyes (regardless of ethnicity). several times. 'Japanese' characters may also have either blonde, brunette, or red hair. which it's totally White attributes.
At first. Japanese mangas and dogas of any genre share these attributes. (Including Go Nagai's 'Super robot heroes' things). these 'American Cartoonish' appearance carried onto 60s and 70s. to the points that when Barbie was introduced to Japan sometimes in early 60s (by Takara... the toy manufacturer that later contributed to the creation of Hasbro's "Transformers" franchise).. in 1967. the similar plastic doll, "Invented by" Maki Mako (Leiji Matsumoto's wife) was launched by... Takara. under the name "Licca". While everyone here says that Mattel's barbie is "Unnatural". Takara's Licca is even more cartoonish!


And she looks MUCH closer to 'American cartoon imagery' than what expressed in the 80s Shojo-style anime. !!! This doll was, is, and always.. marketed as a blonde girl! strangely enough. this look appeals Japanese lil girls and it is a 'revenue generator' to Takara for many decades. and even after the merge with Tomy !! (well an 'asian-looking' Licca did also exists but not generally marketed)


while Doga/Anime industry began its evolution. another aspect came into Marketing formulae. Gender.
By 70s. the rising demands had rushed production process. Doga/Anime began to have a 'coarse' animations rather than 'smooth' ones Americans introduced to Japan.
An anime made for girl markets usually have many characters a big eye. and by 70s. everyone has an unnatural hair colours too!
Those targeted boys. however. became more realistic. human characters have a slant eyes and more ethnically accurate.

While Japanese kids grown up with those Doga/anime. Plastic surgery technology of that time was not even developed. by then all medical and public health science focus on how to save human lives. and not how to perfect one's looks. nor hair cosmetic sciences. so how do those kids look is okay.

While Korean teens are inspired by Japanese Anime/manga (?!?) the Anime-style fashion (Initially it was called Cosplay and usually and occasional dress up fest. just like Gay drag fests when you might expect to see 'clones' of either Madonna or Kylie, or maybe even both! ) was actually originated from America! ...possibly sometimes around 60-70. when Punk music was first introduced. so does the 'unruly' fashions that surpass even the days of preceeding Rock n Roll (which... oddly Elvis fashions contributes much to Disco ones!). Surprisingly. many Japanese admire Andy Warhol hardo, but it was not poppular by 70s-80s. only in the late 90s when J-Pop reaches its pinnacle (by then the J-Pop, and J-Rock can surprisingly stands toe-to-toe with either Spice Girls, or Westlife), the 'Andy Warhol' fashion was first make a big hit there! the fashion also reinforced by Squaresoft's "Final Fantasy" series. (also a coupling of the-then bighit "Play Station"... a technology that was once scared PC Gaming industry) which main characters have asian face, but Warhol's hair!... Interestingly. while 90s anime still features 'big eye japs'. None of Japanese celebrities (and ... even pornstars) being expressed as having 'White Attributes". they only have 'Whites' hairdo... their eyes, faces, and skins.. always easily identified as asians.

P'rhaps it was Japanese marketing beliefs. which (i think) is "Keep your face and eyes asian! Everything else is permitted"
And this is a strict code J-pop still holds even with the face of tough competitions from Korea.

Korean entertainment industry. on the other hand. was so desperate to compete with the Japs.
while original koreans doesn't seem to have different looks than any asians. the Industry itself is in need of creating 'Korean Identity' so they could compete. and outrules asian entertainment industry.
So 'Big eyes and plastic surgery' was the first things Korean popstars are encouraged! i think there was a certain incentives/projects that the media manufacturing company is responsible for every surgery expenses done unto a participating popstar(s)
Koreans tried this experiment. and it works! not only within Korea. but also here in Thailand.
And 'Plastic Koreans' values became widely accepted in Korea. to the point of being a BIG HIT.

L.

sourclams wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:I wasn't using BMI. I'm using the average weight of 5'7" women with a slim, athletic build. It's 126-132 pounds, according to the insurance company MetLife.

You're substituting one general index with another.

When my wife and I met, she was 120 lbs with a slim build, low overall muscle tone, and could have easily shed weight from her hips, glutes, and thighs, probably 5+ pounds, without looking the least bit emaciated.

A high-level yoga practitioner who also plays competitive volleyball who might also be genetically predisposed to a willowy build pretty much blows 'average' indices, even average for a relatively high level of fitness, out of the water.

This is exactly correct. Thank you, sourclams, for being able to see the point clearly, and not assuming the mob mentality.

Melissia, I understand that this may be a sore point for you, but you really should try to avoid picking on slender, fit people just because they are an (increasingly extreme) minority. Would you make your same argument if we were talking about skin & eye colour, and someone's s/o was Asian with blue eyes? Because that us naturally occurring as well, and perhaps just as rare nowadays.

Any general index is based on an average, and for every person like my s/o, there us a gargantuan hambeast to skew the table. The difference is that you seem to think it's okay to pass judgement on the slender, attractive one.

azazel the cat wrote:Melissia, I understand that this may be a sore point for you, but you really should try to avoid picking on slender, fit people just because they are an (increasingly extreme) minority.... The difference is that you seem to think it's okay to pass judgement on the slender, attractive one.

Wow. This might actually be the single most... I can't even think of a word. Hurtful? Hateful? Angry? Assholic?

Nice work.

Mel, rip this man to pieces. Please.

Chowderhead wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Melissia, I understand that this may be a sore point for you, but you really should try to avoid picking on slender, fit people just because they are an (increasingly extreme) minority.... The difference is that you seem to think it's okay to pass judgement on the slender, attractive one.

Wow. This might actually be the single most... I can't even think of a word. Hurtful? Hateful? Angry? Assholic?

Nice work.

Mel, rip this man to pieces. Please.

BRING THE MEL-SHOCK!!

Lone Cat wrote:'Anime eyes' thing was dated back to the early days of Manga prints. possibly post WW2 mangas.
By 1950s. Japan fully embraced American pop culture for the first time! never before had we seen a Japanese woman (usually H.O. ) dressing hollywood actress hairdo. and they have watched American-imported TV Cartoons for the first time. remember Disney's Mickey Mouse? , Looney toons's Bugs Bunny, and MGM's Tom & Jerry ? every characters seen in those flicks are all have a pair of oversized eyes! ... some Japs seen an opportunity to make 'Home-grown' cartoons had copied 'American cartoonish' looks into their own creations. the earliest Japanese 'cartoons' (example. the Big X) by then is an exact copies of Americans imports.
and those domestically created cartoons became popular!

And then completely butchered it because they're weird.

Chowderhead wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Melissia, I understand that this may be a sore point for you, but you really should try to avoid picking on slender, fit people just because they are an (increasingly extreme) minority.... The difference is that you seem to think it's okay to pass judgement on the slender, attractive one.

Wow. This might actually be the single most... I can't even think of a word. Hurtful? Hateful? Angry? Assholic?

Nice work.

Mel, rip this man to pieces. Please.

Not really sure how it's hateful other than possibly being interpreted as suggesting that Mel is something other than slender and attractive.

Not going to comment on women and this issue, but so called masculine men (read: beard and gut) do tend to take the piss out of so called girly men (read: slim, six pack, good looking).