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2012/05/17 19:22:17
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
That is the misconception that the IoM controls all the space inside the area it claims. Which it does not.
As Ascalam says, what are you gonna do to beat them for good? Only complete and total destruction of any world they touch stops them for good. Hell one of the HH books stated it took the number of a few whole Legions to take down one orc world for good. And then honestly unless they killed the world, the orks where back in less then 5 years.
Tghe only way you beat orks for good is to break them and burn the world to the point its a lifeless rock.
Engine of War wrote:Duct Tape! the Ommnisiahs blessed bindings!
2012/05/17 19:22:24
Subject: Re:How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
1. Bayonet to the neck joint.
2. Laserbolt to the optical sensors.
3. Knocking his helmet off and punching his stupid face in.
4. Shorting out his armor's mechanics, leaving him trapped inside.
5. Shoving a grenade up his back pack exhaust.
6. Shooting him in his only partially armored abdomen.
7. Jabbing a sword between his chest and abdomen plates.
8. Slicing his leg off at the knee, causing him to fall down a hill and break his back..
9. Chopping off his head with an axe.
10. Jabbing a poisoned knife up his armpit.
11. Lighting him on fire, causing his armor to warm up and scald him to death.
12. Shoot straight through him with a big gun.
13. Steal his bolter and shoot 'im in the face.
14. Suicide attack with krak grenades.
15. Bog him down with sheer body mass and then crack his armor open like an egg.
16. Pushing him onto a landmine.
17. Using sheer lasgun fire to overheat his armor and scald him.
18. Firing on his crotch plate with a lasgun a few times; he'll black out from pain.
19. Power weapon to the anything.
20. Powerfist to the anything (preferably not the crotch though).
21. Go nuts with a machete; slash as fast as you can anywhere you can till you hit a weak spot.
22. Strap a bomb to his back.
23. Chuck a bomb at his head.
24. Run around him in circles till he gets dizzy and falls over.
25. Knock his head into his chest with a cricket bat.
2012/05/17 19:52:50
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
I would imagine that guardsmen would stab and shoot like Michelle Rodriguez did in the final battle scene of Battle LA. Best way to deal with space marines if forced in CQC if you ask me.
Infantry leads the way!
2012/05/17 19:59:56
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
LoneLictor wrote:Ways Weaklings Wallop Space Marines
1. Bayonet to the neck joint.
2. Laserbolt to the optical sensors.
3. Knocking his helmet off and punching his stupid face in.
4. Shorting out his armor's mechanics, leaving him trapped inside.
5. Shoving a grenade up his back pack exhaust.
6. Shooting him in his only partially armored abdomen.
7. Jabbing a sword between his chest and abdomen plates.
8. Slicing his leg off at the knee, causing him to fall down a hill and break his back..
9. Chopping off his head with an axe.
10. Jabbing a poisoned knife up his armpit.
11. Lighting him on fire, causing his armor to warm up and scald him to death.
12. Shoot straight through him with a big gun.
13. Steal his bolter and shoot 'im in the face.
14. Suicide attack with krak grenades.
15. Bog him down with sheer body mass and then crack his armor open like an egg.
16. Pushing him onto a landmine.
17. Using sheer lasgun fire to overheat his armor and scald him.
18. Firing on his crotch plate with a lasgun a few times; he'll black out from pain.
19. Power weapon to the anything.
20. Powerfist to the anything (preferably not the crotch though).
21. Go nuts with a machete; slash as fast as you can anywhere you can till you hit a weak spot.
22. Strap a bomb to his back.
23. Chuck a bomb at his head.
24. Run around him in circles till he gets dizzy and falls over.
25. Knock his head into his chest with a cricket bat.
All valid methods, as long as you accept throwing 30 of your men's life away just to distract the Astartes enough to set any of those up.
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
2012/05/17 20:55:02
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
That is assuming that they'd manage to take out thirty men before dying ,which is not a safe assumption
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/05/17 21:00:56
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
Shouldn't any fighter or bomber on patrol have a field day against Space Marines? I mean they are brightly colored for God's sake, and heroic death in bombing-runs are unheard of (the pilots and crews of them bombers would be the exception).
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
2012/05/17 21:09:42
Subject: Re:How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
That is assuming that they'd manage to take out thirty men before dying ,which is not a safe assumption
I would assume that quite safely, especially since there is no means of verification or consequence to the choice.
Shouldn't any fighter or bomber on patrol have a field day against Space Marines? I mean they are brightly colored for God's sake, and heroic death in bombing-runs are unheard of (the pilots and crews of them bombers would be the exception).
It would be the safest engagement strategy, for sure, but Marines have survived heavy bombing before...
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
2012/05/17 21:09:55
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
LoneLictor wrote:Ways Weaklings Wallop Space Marines
1. Bayonet to the neck joint.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1 or 2ish
2. Laserbolt to the optical sensors. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Probably 10
3. Knocking his helmet off and punching his stupid face in.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------5ish
4. Shorting out his armor's mechanics, leaving him trapped inside.-----------------------------------------------------------------------In between 3 and 6
5. Shoving a grenade up his back pack exhaust.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1
6. Shooting him in his only partially armored abdomen.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------5 or 6
7. Jabbing a sword between his chest and abdomen plates.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Let's say 11
8. Slicing his leg off at the knee, causing him to fall down a hill and break his back.-------------------------------------------------1 or 2ish
9. Chopping off his head with an axe.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1 or 2ish
10. Jabbing a poisoned knife up his armpit.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1
11. Lighting him on fire, causing his armor to warm up and scald him to death.------------------------------------------------------1
12. Shoot straight through him with a big gun.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------It takes a squad to get a big gun, so 10
13. Steal his bolter and shoot 'im in the face.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------At least 12
14. Suicide attack with krak grenades.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1
15. Bog him down with sheer body mass and then crack his armor open like an egg.----------------------------------------------11
16. Pushing him onto a landmine.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------6
17. Using sheer lasgun fire to overheat his armor and scald him.------------------------------------------------------------------------20
18. Firing on his crotch plate with a lasgun a few times; he'll black out from pain.----------------------------------------------------1
19. Power weapon to the anything.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Takes a squad to get a powerweapon, so 10
20. Powerfist to the anything (preferably not the crotch though). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------Takes a squad to get a powerfist, so 11
21. Go nuts with a machete; slash as fast as you can anywhere you can till you hit a weak spot.-------------------------------1 or 2ish
22. Strap a bomb to his back.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1
23. Chuck a bomb at his head.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1
24. Run around him in circles till he gets dizzy and falls over.------------------------------------------------------------------------------1
25. Knock his head into his chest with a cricket bat.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1
All valid methods, as long as you accept throwing 30 of your men's life away just to distract the Astartes enough to set any of those up.
Next to each item, I've added in how many guardsmen it would take.
2012/05/17 21:33:43
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
It states somewhere in the rulebook that part of CC involves firing your weapon point blank.
Bayonets, if there's enough of them, will eventually find a weak point.
The Eldar CC troops either have face mounted lasers or PW as standard.
Orks are strong.
Tau use their guns point blank and could feasibly hit the SM Sergeant who refuses to wear a helmet round the head with their rifle butt.
Daemons are all warpy and stuff.
'nids are pretty strong.
And 'crons have tech.
kestril wrote:The game is only as fun as the people I play it with.
"War is as natural to a man as maternity is to a woman."
2012/05/17 22:20:51
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
DeadlySquirrel wrote:It states somewhere in the rulebook that part of CC involves firing your weapon point blank.
Bayonets, if there's enough of them, will eventually find a weak point.
The Eldar CC troops either have face mounted lasers or PW as standard.
Orks are strong.
Tau use their guns point blank and could feasibly hit the SM Sergeant who refuses to wear a helmet round the head with their rifle butt.
Daemons are all warpy and stuff.
'nids are pretty strong.
And 'crons have tech.
Airstrikes are hardly heroic.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
2012/05/17 22:41:54
Subject: Re:How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
LoneLictor wrote:Ways Weaklings Wallop Space Marines
1. Bayonet to the neck joint.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1 or 2ish + 30 waving there arms around trying to distract the Marines 2. Laserbolt to the optical sensors. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Probably 10 If the Marine decides he's tired of life in the service of the Emperor and stays perfectly still while the guardmens discharge their guns 3. Knocking his helmet off and punching his stupid face in.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------5ish Lol trying to remove a vacuum sealed helmet by hand
4. Shorting out his armor's mechanics, leaving him trapped inside.-----------------------------------------------------------------------In between 3 and 6 ... with unknown/unavailable weapons ...
5. Shoving a grenade up his back pack exhaust.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1 + 30 waving there arms around trying to distract the Marines
6. Shooting him in his only partially armored abdomen.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------5 or 6 + 30 waving there arms around trying to distract the Marines
7. Jabbing a sword between his chest and abdomen plates.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Let's say 11 Okay random number guy. I'd say 30. See my random number? It's a pretty random number...
8. Slicing his leg off at the knee, causing him to fall down a hill and break his back.-------------------------------------------------1 or 2ish + 30 waving there arms around trying to distract the Marines...
9. Chopping off his head with an axe.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1 or 2ish + 30 waving there arms around trying to distract the Marines
10. Jabbing a poisoned knife up his armpit.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1 + 30 waving there arms around trying to distract the Marines
11. Lighting him on fire, causing his armor to warm up and scald him to death.------------------------------------------------------1 + 30 waving there arms around trying to distract the Marines ....
All valid methods, as long as you accept throwing 30 of your men's life away just to distract the Astartes enough to set any of those up.
Next to each item, I've added in how many guardsmen it would take.
And I've added how many Guardsmen would have to randomly die for this to even dumbfound a Marine long enough that any of those situations could be set up.
Also, I could add on the number of Guardsmen executed by Commissars on the eve of the fight against the Astartes... That would bring the number high in the thousands per Marine dead, i'd reckon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 22:43:30
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
2012/05/17 22:42:56
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
razor5647 wrote:The guard and Imperial Navy don't need to be heroic they just need to DESTROY EVERYTHING and if that works someone gets a regimental citation
Airstrikes tend to not be heroic. So unlike the Ultramarines they should actually be a competent military-force.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
2012/05/17 23:03:30
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
Kovnik, you can't just make up numbers. You gotta do scientific research, 3D modeling scenarios and contact Games Workshop before you can even begin thinking about possible numbers. This isn't bingo; this is science.
2012/05/17 23:06:38
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
DeadlySquirrel wrote:It states somewhere in the rulebook that part of CC involves firing your weapon point blank.
Bayonets, if there's enough of them, will eventually find a weak point.
The Eldar CC troops either have face mounted lasers or PW as standard.
Orks are strong.
Tau use their guns point blank and could feasibly hit the SM Sergeant who refuses to wear a helmet round the head with their rifle butt.
Daemons are all warpy and stuff.
'nids are pretty strong.
And 'crons have tech.
Airstrikes are hardly heroic.
Wait, what?
kestril wrote:The game is only as fun as the people I play it with.
"War is as natural to a man as maternity is to a woman."
2012/05/17 23:42:32
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
DeadlySquirrel wrote:It states somewhere in the rulebook that part of CC involves firing your weapon point blank.
Bayonets, if there's enough of them, will eventually find a weak point.
The Eldar CC troops either have face mounted lasers or PW as standard.
Orks are strong.
Tau use their guns point blank and could feasibly hit the SM Sergeant who refuses to wear a helmet round the head with their rifle butt.
Daemons are all warpy and stuff.
'nids are pretty strong.
And 'crons have tech.
Airstrikes are hardly heroic.
Wait, what?
Looks hero-y to me, in a low budget kind of way
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
2012/05/18 00:02:09
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
razor5647 wrote:The guard and Imperial Navy don't need to be heroic
They're certainly more heroic than the Space Marines.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/05/18 00:51:57
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
LoneLictor wrote:Kovnik, you can't just make up numbers. You gotta do scientific research, 3D modeling scenarios and contact Games Workshop before you can even begin thinking about possible numbers. This isn't bingo; this is science.
Well, all the 3d modeling scenarios I've ran up till now show that the Marines greatest fear is (or should rightly be) my tricolor, Michaelle-Jean, who can incidentally topple entire formations simply in order to reach her litter box. She is pretty indiscriminate in her wanton destruction, tho, so that's fine...
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
2012/05/18 01:30:44
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
I think they just swarm them and use sheer weight of numbers, for example in Brother hood of the Snake, and astartes was killed by a mob of Human cultists (but he was injured and not in full armor)
We are winged salvation, but we are a terrible, final salvation, and our wings embrace the horizon with fire. We are the Blood Angels. To confront us is to die, and death is my remit, my reality, my unbounded domain. I have known death, and defeated it, claimed it as my own. To my cost, to my strength, death is my one gift to bestow, and I am nothing if not generous.
2012/05/18 01:34:32
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
LoneLictor wrote:Kovnik, you can't just make up numbers. You gotta do scientific research, 3D modeling scenarios and contact Games Workshop before you can even begin thinking about possible numbers. This isn't bingo; this is science.
Well, all the 3d modeling scenarios I've ran up till now show that the Marines greatest fear is (or should rightly be) my tricolor, Michaelle-Jean, who can incidentally topple entire formations simply in order to reach her litter box. She is pretty indiscriminate in her wanton destruction, tho, so that's fine...
Your scenarios are way off. Overall, I'd say that your methods are bad and you should feel bad.
2012/05/18 01:51:46
Subject: Re:How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
-paradrop in with large numbers and meltagun, or hot-shot lasgun to the face. Also autocannons can take them out if caught in the open.
-power swords/claws and a dogpile of sacrificial mortals to run in first.
Eldar have the advantage of moving a lot faster than a space marine ever could, so the elite ones take them out if they have power weapons and hit first. Also their mental powers can kick their ass.
2012/05/18 02:09:32
Subject: How do lesser opponents feasibly beat SM in combat?
Infantry leads the way! 
50th Caurusian Infantry - 2000pts
We are winged salvation, but we are a terrible, final salvation, and our wings embrace the horizon with fire. We are the Blood Angels. To confront us is to die, and death is my remit, my reality, my unbounded domain. I have known death, and defeated it, claimed it as my own. To my cost, to my strength, death is my one gift to bestow, and I am nothing if not generous. 
