Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Here's what's around now

http://www.sodapopminiatures.com/catalog/2

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:SW started off slow too

They added a dozen Vanguard at $60k, and a dozen Strain at $120k. That's a lot faster than a maybe at $220k.

I have no problem with CMoN steering the crazy kickstarter boat away from PilesofFreeStuff Town, especially if it means that they are able to launch projects that way more frequently.
If nothing else it will lower the expectations for smaller companies trying to do their thing.

Grot - (Because I have no emotion invested in RK) I wouldn't be upset at all to see it fail to reach CMON's hopes/projections. As for resale value, I don't think it'll be huge at all. We're talking about anime fan titty models, and not a lot of them, either. If resale value was going to be large, this game would already have a huge fanbase. Grot - you may as well leave your pledge in place until the last few days before deciding to let it stay or pulling it. That's what I'll be doing.

Orlando - incorrect. Sedition wars added alternate sculpts at 60k and 12 additional models at 80k. This one is simply "unlocking" the factions that they plan to produce as part of this anyway before they get to the point of giving extra value from RRP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

plastictrees wrote:I have no problem with CMoN steering the crazy kickstarter boat away from PilesofFreeStuff Town, especially if it means that they are able to launch projects that way more frequently.
If nothing else it will lower the expectations for smaller companies trying to do their thing.

Piles of free stuff is the "payoff" that makes this sort of thing more than a preorder paid in full 6 months upfront that can be more expensive than waiting for it to hit retail.

I think the potential success will be the same reason for potential failure of this game.

Anime theme is fine, it will appeal to some and others not.

But its big boob minis seem to show lack of any real imagination. I'm not offended by it in the least bit, but just seems like there is more to a female sculpt than boobs and getting into the doggy style position.

There are something I do like about these minis, and the game system from the demo seems awesome.

But just not over enthusiastic about this like I am for SedWars

lucasbuffalo wrote:I'm having a hard time getting friends to go in with be do to the lack of true stretch rewards. I'm gonna get this regardless, they're just a lot more skeptical. I think they're shooting their monetary climb in the foot a bit by not offering at least 1 something shiny at the lower raising levels.

This, pretty much.

The casino cards were "Wait, they didn't throw those in already after people complained about SDE?" and the plastic tokens and base inserts are "who cares?".

Throwing out a Black Diamond guy in a Lelouche/Zero outfit or a Corsair in a Captain Harlock outfit would do a lot more to keep me interested in the Kickstarter's success.

It also doesn't help that a lot of the "extras" feel price inflated. Unless the BD Assault Armor is dreadnought size I can't see plunking down $35.

Yeah I think part of the current slow down is due to the cards and plastic tokens not really being all that exciting an add on - the cards never should have been an upgrade they should have always been plastic core to begin with and there has been no mention of the tokens to date so no idea how useful they are. It's to be expected that things would slow down to about $7k a day at this time.

I'm actually happy that they are including the base inserts - provided they are like the sculpted bases that appear in the painted pictures and aren't something else.

There's probably another 10 to 12 or so stretch goals after the $220k (2 of which are Cosplay minis) if this thing can take off so plenty of scope for more stuff and Soda Pop Miniatures has hinted that the optional extras may have stretch upgrades which will make the prices a bit more reasonable.

I'd expect things to pick up again this weekend and once the the Cosplay Rin stretch opens up I'd say they are exactly where they want to be heading into Gencon

scipio.au wrote:Grot - (Because I have no emotion invested in RK) I wouldn't be upset at all to see it fail to reach CMON's hopes/projections. As for resale value, I don't think it'll be huge at all. We're talking about anime fan titty models, and not a lot of them, either. If resale value was going to be large, this game would already have a huge fanbase. Grot - you may as well leave your pledge in place until the last few days before deciding to let it stay or pulling it. That's what I'll be doing.

Orlando - incorrect. Sedition wars added alternate sculpts at 60k and 12 additional models at 80k. This one is simply "unlocking" the factions that they plan to produce as part of this anyway before they get to the point of giving extra value from RRP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

plastictrees wrote:I have no problem with CMoN steering the crazy kickstarter boat away from PilesofFreeStuff Town, especially if it means that they are able to launch projects that way more frequently.
If nothing else it will lower the expectations for smaller companies trying to do their thing.

Piles of free stuff is the "payoff" that makes this sort of thing more than a preorder paid in full 6 months upfront that can be more expensive than waiting for it to hit retail.

I like piles of "Free" stuff. Especially when I pay for it.

On to Relic Knights, I decided that I would hold fast on this one. Infinity needs my attention more then t... these fine upstanding young ladies do, right now.

I'll keep my eye on it, of course. But they seem to have done the exact opposite from what they did with the other two KS projects. Not honestly really feeling it after it stalled three days ago.

Something about this one kinda ticked me off in a way I really don't understand.

All I can really say is that if your not dead-nuts set on a project, they can go either way.

Not really emotional, but there is something about how this one is going that really just leaves me not honestly feeling it.

GL to them, I as I said- will be watching this one.

So the $160k target was finally reached after a long wait and a lot of funds dropping out.

$180k is Cosplay Rin as Yoko from Tengan Toppa


Here's a picture of the (resin) Noh Empire Relic Knights Kasaro

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qaXVUCwYVy0/UC1BDWU--NI/AAAAAAAAQ88/tJysHg3Busw/s1600/Relic.JPG

very slow few days and Gencon doesn't seem to be having an effect yet it seems a lot of people aren't seeing enough reward for their money yet and the plasticore cards and plastic tokens did nothing to help matters

I'm thinking this isn't going to come anywhere near their previous releases.

As an example Sedition Wars had exactly 1 day with less than 40 new pledgers and that day was 38. And Relic Knights has already had 3. Not to mention actual income numbers. It had a stronger first three days and then kinda seems to have fallen over.

I just don't see the value even if some of the sculpts would be kinda fun to paint it just doesn't do it the same way Sedition Wars or Zombiecide did....

We'll see.

I doubt CMoN are feeling negative about it. They're probably going to end up with a couple of thousand people with their new game and a quarter million raised in a month...at least That sounds all good to me.

I feel like it may be in part because it is not a "stand alone" game like Zombicide or SW. It is a skirmish game more similar to infinity, and as such buying the whole thing gets rather expensive. You can't as easily bring over your box of relic knights. That, and many of the folks that are interested in the minis already bought them. and the initial concepts aren't as far along as the others, and the stretches look like the back of a napkin.

It doesn't yet seem like I would be getting a great value for my investment (some ROI can be expected in my opinion), so I will hold off until I see where things are headed.

I do like the minis, the concepts and what I have seen of the game play though. So, I am definitely interested, I just need more enticement.

~Eric

I think they need to change up the way they're doing things:

A: Don't show so many stretch goals at once. It makes people discouraged when few of the stretch goals are appealing, and it locks the KS into a strategy it might be better to change in reaction to slowdowns and such.

B: Show more photos of finished models, especially with things to show scale. A lot of people(Myself included) were under the impression the Knights were heavy warjack size when apparently they're much larger. It's easier to get people excited with a physical product.

C: More add-ins, less substitutes.

It's odd alright that they don't have more pictures of actual minis

The 2 pics attached (from Gencon) show that Betty and Lug are done and painted as are the Black Diamond Corps (minions) and the Paladins so why not show them off. You can also see how big the Noh actually are.

Unless this Kickstarter gets WAY better, I am pulling out in favour of the Dreamforge Titans. Just don't have money to do both after Kings of War AND Sedition Wars... AND ZOMBIECIDE!!!

Darn Kickstarter, why do you love us so much!

I've said my piece on the pricing and that I think they've got it wrong on this kickstarter. Hasami & Fiametta are the same scale as the SW special characters yet are going to cost x4 the price!!!! The difference with ZC / SW is that with the models you had concept drawings or even 3D renders of every model you were buying. On RK what you have a is a description, but no picture. Or we have what we know the metal / resin version to look like, but unanswered questions on the plastic version.

For a $100 game with only x12 models so far (which it is if you buy x2 opposing factions to play against, 'Savour' level), I expect 'Casino Quality' Cards. I expect 'Plastic' Tokens. There is also no descriptions or answers as to what the 'playmat' is? Is is a 2ft square paper poster, or what we think it should be for a $100 game, a top quality vinal double sided print? Or is it something totally unrelated from my local Early Learning Centre???

The point is, at the moment there are a lot of unknowns whereas other comparable KS's had more defined stuff, and certainly more stuff for your money. We are giving up a lot of money, for something we can't actually see (as it's not been made yet), and committing the money 6 to 9 months up front. I really hope that the Sodapop team are just busy at Gen Con and we'll see some more stuff answered after this week or I maybe pulling out.

An interesting fact for you is that yesterday, even though the overall increase was up, about $1700 was lost in backers.

That'll be the big unknown I guess, how many people would this KS lose if it doesn't become a better deal within a few days of ending?
Personally I don't think that $100 for two sides of a TTG is weird, but I hadn't noticed that its played on a mat until it was mentioned a above.

RogueRegault wrote:I think they need to change up the way they're doing things:

A: Don't show so many stretch goals at once. It makes people discouraged when few of the stretch goals are appealing, and it locks the KS into a strategy it might be better to change in reaction to slowdowns and such.

That isn't going to help. Other Kickstarters see the same slowdown when they show one mediocre stretch goal at a time. If you don't want the slowdown, don't use stretch goals people don't like, or stick one in as a 5-10k goal to sweeten the deal when you see an unforeseen slowdown starting.

Makaleth wrote:Unless this Kickstarter gets WAY better, I am pulling out in favour of the Dreamforge Titans. Just don't have money to do both after Kings of War AND Sedition Wars... AND ZOMBIECIDE!!!
Darn Kickstarter, why do you love us so much!

Yeah, this. But there's more to it than that. I look at the concept art and the (finished?) figures and the figures fall far short of the concept art. I look at the stretch goals and meh. I look at the add-on prices and I baulk. Obviously the potential value will come when they "level up" the basic starter sets, but who knows if that will actually happen?

More to the point, I'm seeing greater value in my money going to the insane Reaper KS, and my "god dammit, I like that guy" money to Dreamforge. And my "small but nice" pledge to the Pirate Goblins.

scipio.au wrote: I look at the concept art and the (finished?) figures and the figures fall far short of the concept art. I look at the stretch goals and meh.

The (presumably) WIP of the mech with the big flaming axe thing really looks like complete garbage next to the concept art.

Yeah, I had another look at it all since my last post, and changed my pledge to $1 (from 3x Gotta get em all - $260+75 post). I'm out. Money will go to Reaper and possibly Dreamforge instead.

Though one or two of the add on minis is garbage i have seen many soda pop minis in person and they do not lack in quality. I wish they too had more models but lets see if i were to go buy two warmachine sets i would have between 8 to 10 models. I personally believe in quality over quantity but to each his own.

TheSecretSquig wrote:I've said my piece on the pricing and that I think they've got it wrong on this kickstarter. Hasami & Fiametta are the same scale as the SW special characters yet are going to cost x4 the price!!!! The difference with ZC / SW is that with the models you had concept drawings or even 3D renders of every model you were buying. On RK what you have a is a description, but no picture. Or we have what we know the metal / resin version to look like, but unanswered questions on the plastic version.

For a $100 game with only x12 models so far (which it is if you buy x2 opposing factions to play against, 'Savour' level), I expect 'Casino Quality' Cards. I expect 'Plastic' Tokens. There is also no descriptions or answers as to what the 'playmat' is? Is is a 2ft square paper poster, or what we think it should be for a $100 game, a top quality vinal double sided print? Or is it something totally unrelated from my local Early Learning Centre???

The point is, at the moment there are a lot of unknowns whereas other comparable KS's had more defined stuff, and certainly more stuff for your money. We are giving up a lot of money, for something we can't actually see (as it's not been made yet), and committing the money 6 to 9 months up front. I really hope that the Sodapop team are just busy at Gen Con and we'll see some more stuff answered after this week or I maybe pulling out.

An interesting fact for you is that yesterday, even though the overall increase was up, about $1700 was lost in backers.

That is a troubling sign - but hopefully CMON is paying attention and will address many of these issue, along with increasing the quality of the stretch goals.

Empchild wrote:Though one or two of the add on minis is garbage i have seen many soda pop minis in person and they do not lack in quality. I wish they too had more models but lets see if i were to go buy two warmachine sets i would have between 8 to 10 models. I personally believe in quality over quantity but to each his own.

You are, of course, right up to a point.

Successful Kickstarters really need both quality AND quantity if they want to generate a lot of pledges with high dollar amounts.

For better or worse, the "$100 Pledge" bar has already been set high and right now Relic Knights looks to be falling a bit short of it.

$100 is really nothing. It's a GW Storm Raven and a romantic dinner for two at McDonalds.

Yeah, the stretch goals kinda suck, but the product is really really good. I plan on doing the $270 because that seems reasonable to me. I pick up close to every mini and am only concerned about getting duplicate LE's.

What other skirmish game gives you everything for less than $300?

The problems I'm seeing are--

-precedent: SW and Zombiecide also have really nice looking minis, but hugely more minis--most notably these are also CMON-- I'd bet that there wouldn't be this backlash if SP had been independent, though there is still the precedent of SDE

-concept vs. execution: Infinity is the only generally realistically proportioned game I've seen with anime-influenced art that pulls it off in mini form: Anima and Relic Knights both end up fairly off the mark of their concepts

-timing: after a summer of strong kickstarters and it's currently gencon (and, will have had gencon in the middle of its campaign)


...not to say it isn't a success, just that isn't seeming like it has the chance to be a huge one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bat Manuel wrote:
What other skirmish game gives you everything for less than $300?

Malifaux and Infinity won't give you everything, but they'll give you as many or more figures and have similar game sizes, so I'd say they're comparable (minus a play surface), and the old Specialist Games line would get you quite a lot of playable stuff for those $300, too.

Honestly, I think the $100 and $190 marks are just fine. A tabletop game BOOK (which everyone seems to be forgetting is included) is usually in the $50 range itself. So, book + 2 starters for $100 (including shipping, except for the poor Euros) is perfectly fine.

Its just that its not sexy. (The models surely are, and TOO much for for me in a number of models.) There just don't seem to be the bonuses that draw in the people who are not likely to be the actual gamers.

I don;t think that's necessarily bad. A $100 buy-in to a starting game is still a really nice price point. BUt when the 'bonuses' feel like things that should already be in the game (cards, markers, the FACTIONS themselves), it does look really disappointing.

And the lack of finished models, updates, or even pages from the book and the 9 month wait to finish the models makes Soda Pop look disorganized and in over their heads.

Still, the $100 buy in is likely to get my money, but I'm still waiting for something that forces me to invest.

drazz wrote:A tabletop game BOOK (which everyone seems to be forgetting is included) is usually in the $50 range itself

Almost every one I've seen is in the $25-35 range...think Infinity is higher, and GW is if you don't consider the boxed set ones.

Lets break this down honestly at the $100 dollar level, now you get a hardback book, 2 factions sets, and 2 limited minis.I have a retailer account with cmon and once this launches that is still about as good a deal as I will get purchasing it for my store and add to boot the limited minis. Now I agree that the cards and tokens should be already in that list but overall I see this as a great deal and if others don't then that's fine but we can't always be spoiled with killer deals as sometimes the companys just can't swing that for one reason or another. Now SW did give a lot more minis and that's great but what people seem to overlook is the size of the models vs each other. In the end if you don't want to donate then don't or hey pull out. I have removed my pledges before on several occassions for one reason or another and that's why it's a great deal vs. indiegogo.

Good call on not forgetting the book - I have to admit, I was not factoring that in!