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Pacific wrote:the level of self-importance and aggrandisement they must possess.

So trying to enforce a valid agreement is a sign of self-importance now?

Look, I don't like the info embargo one bit, but if it's there, GW has the right to ask people who agreed to conform to their rules to actually do so in reality.

His Master's Voice wrote:

Pacific wrote:the level of self-importance and aggrandisement they must possess.

So trying to enforce a valid agreement is a sign of self-importance now?

Look, I don't like the info embargo one bit, but if it's there, GW has the right to ask people who agreed to conform to their rules to actually do so in reality.

This.

I like their "tight-policy" as little as anyone from a "hobbyist perspective". But its their show and noone is forcing you to sell their stuff.

Can you imagine what happens to an authorized Apple-dealer that breaks their security to spoil Tim Cook's next "surprise reveal" of the iPone5 or whatever...

(and while we're at it, Apple seems to be another company that has done reasonably well with a "keep your secrets close" policy... against all dakka-marketing wisdom).

Well, that was the point I was trying to make really. 15+ years ago when GW was heavy handed with independents the latter had no other options really.. yes there were some, and I know many tried to take the D&D or even model railway routes instead and move away from wargaming, but they had to put up or shut up with the policies.

In 2012 the situation is very much different. The wolves are sniffing around at the door, and the kind of policies doled out with this and others over the last year or so are giving more encouragement than ever for that independent shop owner to open that door and let them in.

His Master's Voice - yes, this is absolutely GW's right. But, I'm trying to make the point that it might ultimately be a bit self-defeating in view of the wider wargaming industry and GW's position within it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I smell something... fish... a herring. A red one perhaps.

I'm simply amazed that you can determine not only the species of fish, but what color it is, all from smell alone.

Pacific wrote:I hope this document puts any such questions about the mindset of the company we are dealing with here to rest

I didn't really have any doubt in my mind, obviously, but it's nice to get written proof that GW are an donkey-cave of a company now and then.

Sidstyler wrote:

Pacific wrote:I hope this document puts any such questions about the mindset of the company we are dealing with here to rest

I didn't really have any doubt in my mind, obviously, but it's nice to get written proof that GW are an donkey-cave of a company now and then.

I think this sums it up better than I can:

Well I think this only proves one thing and that the list released to the net with the Hobbit info and future 40k releases is true.

This is a clear reaction to that information release.

GW will be absolutely fuming, smoke out of the ears. Really the information is being polite with it as it isn't speaking to the guilty party.

They will no doubt have fired a few over this.

ceorron wrote:Well I think this only proves one thing and that the list released to the net with the Hobbit info and future 40k releases is true.

This is a clear reaction to that information release.

GW will be absolutely fuming, smoke out of the ears. Really the information is being polite with it as it isn't speaking to the guilty party.

There will no doubt have fired a few over this.

Not that I'm doubting you or anything but the news of this "tightening of the leaks" as it were dropped a couple of days before the 40k/Hobbit goldmine. Unless GW was aware that something got out before it hit the net.

Not thought of that Grimtuff. Yes most likely they knew the release might happen before it happened.

Zweischneid wrote:(and while we're at it, Apple seems to be another company that has done reasonably well with a "keep your secrets close" policy... against all dakka-marketing wisdom).

This is WAY off mark here.

Apple doesn't do well because they are all "secretive and shiz" with their upcoming stuff.

Apple sells you an image, a lifestyle change, and not their product. They tell you if you by a Mac, you're cool and are a rebel for not buying into PC, Android, or that "junk" that everyone else uses. So if you want to be a unique snowflake that's special, and let everyone know it, buy Apple products! They are the "nice" company and not that big, evil Microsoft. The irony is that Apple is just as big and Evil as Microsoft, if not more.

However, I agree that FLGS should not break street date selling of items. They should be allowed to advertise upcoming stuff. It doesn't make much sense that GW stores can have a launch party planned/advertised ahead of time, and then tell FLGS they can't do the same.

Kroothawk wrote:Erm ... that is for their trade customers, i.e. independent stores. And restricting free speech of customers is not a small thing.

Thank you for the clarification. That being said, it doesn't change my mind that they are well within their rights to do this. The retailers are always welcome to walk away and not carry GWS if they do not like the terms. If they accept the contract, they also accept the terms that come with it (ie, diminished speech).

I see the posted rules as utterly and wholly reasonable pursuant to their corporate strategy regarding new releases. Again, I think it's a stupid strategy, but that's their right.

ceorron wrote:GW will be absolutely fuming, smoke out of the ears.

Which is funny, because knowing that Tau might be close to release (if the models spoiled were indeed a second wave) has helped keep me around a little longer. I did buy the 6th edition rulebook but I'm not exactly happy with the changes (contemplated taking it back to the store without even cracking the plastic at one point), and I'm so frustrated by the fact that Dark Eldar are crap now, a mere two years after a new codex and an entire revamp of the miniature line, I was seriously thinking about taking a few Dakka poster's advice and quitting the game for the next 4 years. I mean there have been rumors of Tau getting updated but they seem to keep getting pushed back and I was tired of waiting.

Tau are my favorite army and I'm more than bored with them at this point. I don't know if I'll keep playing or not when they do get updated, I feel like I got burned kinda bad when I bought into Dark Eldar and other than Necrons I can't think of any xenos that got updates during 5th that were actually worth a gak after the fact (Tyranids aren't, and uh...wait, really, was that it? Who else got updated besides DE, Nids, and Necrons, I can't remember.), but I do wanna see the new models at least.

I mean yeah, there's that whole New Line thing, that's bad news, but I can't be the only one who saw some of the new stuff and felt genuine excitement for once. It doesn't rival the kind of feeling when Dark Eldar were getting shown off at Games Day for me, but it's pretty much the high point of the past couple of years so it's close enough, lol.

My local store was explaining this new policy to us last week, mostly focusing on how the Game Palor down the street was continually breaking street dates, accepting preorders before product was officially announced, and what not.

Part of me though "okay this sort of makes sense."

Another part said "why don't you just announce stuff before rumors start flying?"

TalonZahn wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:(and while we're at it, Apple seems to be another company that has done reasonably well with a "keep your secrets close" policy... against all dakka-marketing wisdom).

This is WAY off mark here.

Apple doesn't do well because they are all "secretive and shiz" with their upcoming stuff.

Apple sells you an image, a lifestyle change, and not their product. They tell you if you by a Mac, you're cool and are a rebel for not buying into PC, Android, or that "junk" that everyone else uses. So if you want to be a unique snowflake that's special, and let everyone know it, buy Apple products! They are the "nice" company and not that big, evil Microsoft. The irony is that Apple is just as big and Evil as Microsoft, if not more.

However, I agree that FLGS should not break street date selling of items. They should be allowed to advertise upcoming stuff. It doesn't make much sense that GW stores can have a launch party planned/advertised ahead of time, and then tell FLGS they can't do the same.

That is one part of it, but not all. (Just like GW isn't "just" secrecy).

Apple has also ALWAYS been about making a buzz. Old Steve Jobs "new-product-presentation" were virtually staged circus shows. Thousands upon thousands of tech-bloggers would count the seconds until Jobs went up his stage and then stream his every word across the net. When some time ago an iPhone3 or iPhone4 (cant remember) was found "pre-release", it created a huge splash.

Sure, Apple does more than "just" keep its release-pipeline tight. But it does as well consider a "no-leaks-before-we-release" it a very important aspect of its product launch- and marketing strategy.

frozenwastes wrote:I think you might be right.

So your grand strategy, the thing that Games Workshop is doing wrong...genuinely is clamping down on leaks? Despite the fact that they've been in trouble before for leaking things with the LOTR? Do you also critisise them for charging for their products? Or paying a wage to their staff?
And *you* are calling *me* a troll?
I'm sorry but if your idea of marketing is to allow leaks, it somewhat invalidates your critisism of GW's marketing.

I'm wondering why requiring stores to keep street date is a bad thing? People do realize that there are actual heavy financial penalties for releases videos early right? Costs that basically make it unreasonable to release early as any gains and then some are eaten by the penalty.

As for the advertising early since most stores don't know for sure what's coming out before the white dwarf comes in I'm again not seeing the issue. Just don't take pre-orders based on rumors and it's not an issue. Funny how there are so many tales of woe on here but the store owners I know geniunely like GW Direct and are very happy with them as a distributor.

My marketing plan for GW,

Releases are revealed a week before release on the GW website (as it is now) and each month a handfull of random shops (chosen by the trade sales team) will receive a single model, part of a model or sprue a week in advance of the website reveal.

That way we as the customer will be visiting shops to see if they got a preview, browsing the internet to find pictures and the retailer will feel special because he got a preview to create buzz in his shop.

In this way GW control the "leaks" and what they are.

I know this is just wish-listing, but I like this idea more than a full information black out.

LordofHats wrote:
Another part said "why don't you just announce stuff before rumors start flying?"

Everything has to have an announcement date - that's common practice. Usually in GW's case it seems to be 3-6 months after the product itself is finished and "good to go".
There's little point in announcing something that far in advance of its release, since the week before it's released you'd essentially have to re-announce it.

You also need a comfortable "buffer" period in which you can change something if something else goes horribly wrong.

/shrug

It's a different league... but Spartan Games kept quiet about the Dystopian Legions game until todays Gen-Con(?) reveal. The game, rules, 4 factions, loads of minis is out in October. So they must've been working on it for a while.

Noone is griping about Spartan Games hurting their customers and the buzz so far seems to be positive by and large.

6 months without products? Yeah, and them there will be a gap, costumers in the area will not have GW products to buy for 6 months. They will obviously buy from other store... no, they will not try new games...

But hey, we all know GW is the only miniatures company in the town... right?

So, who the manager of that stupid company? Every time i try to like GW they show me another reason to dont like them...

Zweischneid wrote:/shrug

It's a different league... but Spartan Games kept quiet about the Dystopian Legions game until todays Gen-Con(?) reveal. The game, rules, 4 factions, loads of minis is out in October. So they must've been working on it for a while.

Noone is griping about Spartan Games hurting their customers and the buzz so far seems to be positive by and large.

You just like to argue for the sake of it don'tcha?

Had Spartan announced said game using GW's timeframe (so, let's say last week of September) you might have a point, but seeing as we're approx 2 months away from release that's ample time to build up hype, just like, I dunno, let's pick another company not entirely at random, Hawk Wargames. GW is an anomaly in this industry.

I firmly believe at some point they have looked at the way Apple does things and goes "Hey we want to be like that" but not looked at why Apple operates the way it does in the industry it is in.

Grimtuff wrote:
Had Spartan announced said game using GW's timeframe (so, let's say last week of September) you might have a point, but seeing as we're approx 2 months away from release that's ample time to build up hype, just like, I dunno, let's pick another company not entirely at random, Hawk Wargames. GW is an anomaly in this industry.

To be fair, 6th edition took everyone by surprise.
No, wait.

Testify wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:
Had Spartan announced said game using GW's timeframe (so, let's say last week of September) you might have a point, but seeing as we're approx 2 months away from release that's ample time to build up hype, just like, I dunno, let's pick another company not entirely at random, Hawk Wargames. GW is an anomaly in this industry.

To be fair, 6th edition took everyone by surprise.
No, wait.

So then, riddle me this: prior to one week before it's preorder (which was a clusterfeth to begin with) what did GW do in any OFFICIAL CAPACITY to acknowledge it's existence and market it?

Hm?

Hulksmash wrote:People do realize that there are actual heavy financial penalties for releases videos early right? Costs that basically make it unreasonable to release early as any gains and then some are eaten by the penalty.

Cash flow. Having income means you're getting interest off of it, even if you're having to (possibly) pay a penalty later. Penalties and fees like this are accounted for as "Revenue Adjustments" which will hit the balance sheet later, has no effect on the current period Statement of Cash Flows. They also have the opportunity to shift more units that way.

I feel this news needs some kind of word play on a Star Wars Quote between Leia and Tarkin, something about tightening grips and slipping through fingers.

Grimtuff wrote:

Testify wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:
Had Spartan announced said game using GW's timeframe (so, let's say last week of September) you might have a point, but seeing as we're approx 2 months away from release that's ample time to build up hype, just like, I dunno, let's pick another company not entirely at random, Hawk Wargames. GW is an anomaly in this industry.

To be fair, 6th edition took everyone by surprise.
No, wait.

So then, riddle me this: prior to one week before it's preorder (which was a clusterfeth to begin with) what did GW do in any OFFICIAL CAPACITY to acknowledge it's existence and market it?

Hm?

Riddle me this - why spend money on something that's public knowledge? To the extent that redshirts were advising people to hold off buying the 5th edition box set?
Everyone knew 6th was coming. A lot of the rumours may well have been sanctioned leaks - we don't know. What we do know is that, regardless of what GW did or did not do, it was bloody successful. Both the GW's I went into on the day of release had sold out.

It's an horrribly unpleasant policy... but it's an effective one... Deal with it guys... GW is a company that has to sell stuff and they wouldn't do anything that would make them sell less.
GW is not losing customers with the "no-rumours" policy... they are instead gaining.
For example... Rumours caused a 90 euros loss to gw in my case... Some month ago I was wondering about buying the Chaos battleforce but when I saw the rumours I said to myself ... let's wait the starter box and the new chaos minis... Without rumours I would have bought the Chaos Battleforce AND the new starter set (since I would have bought it anyway... knowing its release and contents in advance made me able to avoid another buy)

GW wants to capitalise on the "OH SHINT" factor and impulse buying... they don't want us to have the opportunity to make a "buy plan" because they would sell less stuff...

@12thronin

You're simply wrong. Penalties in the film industry were per film pre-released. For rentals in particular (as this is the industry I was intimately familiar with) as the cost was per film put out so if a small time rental store put out 3 copies of something they got hit for several thousand dollars per copy. You can't make that much money off of this and so it can actually put small time businesses out of business.

And if it was worth it why don't major retailers release early and damn the date? Answer, it's not. The cost is outrageous for a reason.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I feel this news needs some kind of word play on a Star Wars Quote between Leia and Tarkin, something about tightening grips and slipping through fingers.

Go for it: I already used the one between Vader and Lando.

punkow wrote:
For example... Rumours caused a 90 euros loss to gw in my case... Some month ago I was wondering about buying the Chaos battleforce but when I saw the rumours I said to myself ... let's wait the starter box and the new chaos minis... Without rumours I would have bought the Chaos Battleforce AND the new starter set (since I would have bought it anyway... knowing its release and contents in advance made me able to avoid another buy)

GW wants to capitalise on the "OH SHINT" factor and impulse buying... they don't want us to have the opportunity to make a "buy plan" because they would sell less stuff...

On the flip side I spent about £400 earlier this spring (may into June time) because rumours of 6th saying it was about to drop.

If I didn't know 6th wasn't coming, I wouldn't have got anything, but the chatting about the rumours and info that was being leaked through got my 40K excitement going again, so I splashed out on several things I'd been considering for a while.

Okay I'm one of those who has seen the GW release schedule they've had going for a while now, so I knew 6th was due this year anyways, (as I've noted elsewhere, expect Warhammer 9th in 2014 ) but the chatting about the rumours inspired me to go spend.

Although I should note both our examples are not really any sign of if GW's ploys are working or not.

Grimtuff wrote:


You just like to argue for the sake of it don'tcha?

Indeed. I am here to argue, see things from different perspectives and hear different arguments.

You, in contrast, seem only interested in having people acknowledge your brilliance and supreme knowledge, as you clearly have already formed the one possible opinion anyone could possible have on this subject it seem.