Horrible Sportsmanship

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**Lordhat**

CIsaac wrote:
A long time ago, I used to be TFG.

I'd whine. I'd bitch. I threw dice. Stomped around. You name it, I did it. I look back and I don't even know why I did it. Then day, during a Risk game (it happened with all sorts of games, not just miniature games), I got so mad I shoved my best friend of 16 years hard back down into his chair.

Everyone was just staring at me. The room was dead silent and I think that's the point where I finally realized what was going on. I wasn't 'good naturedly ribbing' everyone. I wasn't 'being passionate about the game'. I was being an unmitigated donkey-cave. I stopped gaming for a while and really had to figure out what was going on. It took something like that before I realized that things were really wrong.

It takes a long time to change habits. And you have to sit and work out the underlying reasons for WHY you started acting like that. There turned out to be some very bad anger issues I had to work out that had been bleeding over into my gaming experiences. As I've aged, I've mellowed out a lot, and it's made things more pleasant for myself and my friends as well.

Every game begins with a polite thanking for playing and ends the same way (along with an offered handshake now). Voice is not allowed to be raised. If there's a rules dispute, the book comes out immediately, or we get a third party, or just dice it off.

I don't want to be that person; the guy everyone hates to be around.

Yes, some TFG are just monstrous donkey-caves. Some... have problems they have to deal with, too. They don't know how, and this is how it manifests. They need help.

Exalted.

**Gabrial Seth**

for me it is the anger of not winning i love to win, so much that i can get hooked on it. So i learned from a young age since i was so slight that i had to get used to losing more often than anything else.

It sucks to not win it sucks more when your friends get tired of playing games with you.

**hotsauceman1**

Me, I can be a TFG aswell, Like this last game, I was playing a guy and his kid. I was getting annoyed when the first turn took nearly a half an hour on his side because he and his 6 year would keeparguing over what unit to fire and at what. I got so frusterated that a couple times i would just ask it they could just roll the dice.
And i didnt like this because i can get in at most one game a week, and I would like to be able to play a full game. I think its that everyone can be a TFG is they are faced with an unfavorable situation that they are flung into. I dont like that i did that, but i did.

**Lordhat**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Me, I can be a TFG aswell, Like this last game, I was playing a guy and his kid. I was getting annoyed when the first turn took nearly a half an hour on his side because he and his 6 year would keeparguing over what unit to fire and at what. I got so frusterated that a couple times i would just ask it they could just roll the dice.
And i didnt like this because i can get in at most one game a week, and I would like to be able to play a full game. I think its that everyone can be a TFG is they are faced with an unfavorable situation that they are flung into. I dont like that i did that, but i did.

That's not being a TFG. Six year olds have no business trying to play WH40K regardless of how 'mature' they are.

**Ascalam**

I beg to differ.

My 7 year old started when she was 6. She's pretty good.

She also paints a hell of a lot better than some of the guys i run into at the FLGS, and at least she DOES paint

I startedf WHFB when i was about 8. Started 40K not much later when it came out (as RT).

If you don't want to play 40k against kids, that's cool. Telling anyone, whether they are 6 or 66, that they have no right to play a tabletop game is fething ridiculous.

Sure, they might need reminding what certain rules mean, or how a vehicle can move, but that's not a kid-only issue. There's a guy at our FLGS who needs prompts too. He loves the game, and he's cool to play against, but he does need reminders from time to time.

**Gabrial Seth**

telling a kid they cant play something is messed up, the guy wanted to bond with his kid, maybe the kid knew more than he let on either way

**jonolikespie**

I have no problem with kids in the game but 6 is definitely too young to expect someone to have a grip on the rules imo. Sure they might be great players and they might know the rules better than me but I wouldn't expect it and would be very wary about playing them.

**Gabrial Seth**

iknew battletech when i was 7. We didnt play much but i knew the rules and how to apply them. If the kid is taught hands and the rules are reinforced then they can be taught a tabletop game. I know when i have a kid i am going to get them a 40k or fantasy army and teach them to paint.

**sniddy**

We had a player at our local group - could be a little bit of a tool and was a WAAC type player.

We were having a friendly tourny - he got paired against the least skilled, least able player...and procedded to table him..

Took a brutal list, all the pluses he could...and even at the end on the last turn refused a fun request from the other player.

No need for it there was no fun to be had....I had a game against him as the 2nd least able player and was determained not to let him win - held him to a draw....one of my proudest moments in WH

**Crimson-King2120**

if your 35 years old and can't measure 30' you shouldn't be playing

**hotsauceman1**

Kids do have a place in this game, Heck im going to try ot see if my 8-10 year(If i ever have one) would be interested in it. Where they dont belong is with an adult, constantly arguing about what to do.

**Byte**

Now two TFGs squaring off can be entertaining.

**ZebioLizard2**

Crimson-King2120 wrote:
if your 35 years old and can't measure 30' you shouldn't be playing

Not everyone's eyes can measure perception well enough to gauge 30" right.

**happygolucky**

Alfndrate wrote:
I am currently trying to learn 6th ed, the new Chaos codex, and play some casual games of Magic the Gathering, and I'm currently a bit of TFG in the local 40k scene. My first issue is that I'm playing a little bit of Magic, a game I loathe, but my best friends all want me to play with them once in a while. So, I play a few games, get ticked off and extremely annoyed because I'm being beaten by decks that are designed to hold their own, and I'm losing because I don't wish to put money towards the game.

Trying to learn 6th ed and the new chaos codex has led to a handful of horrible games where I get upset, and complain about how I remember why I don't find 40k all that fun, but I'm trying to learn. My last game was against Necrons and I was tabled by turn 3. I had lost 16 marines in the first turn, I was getting stomped the entire game, and afterwards I basically told the guy, that I did not have fun because I was losing so badly, and that I was ticked off that his army of stuff he had in a box (he had been painting, and didn't have his normal army on him) was able to be crush me so handedly. And then during the game I called him a fething prick because he said there was a rule that he felt was stupid and broken. He then proceeded to use that rule to his advantage to beat my face in, it involved his command barge (chariot) being able to leap over my unit and then make his attacks with the str and ap of his lord's weapon (Str 7, AP 1).

Yes I was getting extremely angry over these games of toys and paper, but I never have issues with the other wargames I play. Normally I'm a decent person to play, I don't usually get upset, but those two game systems bring out the worst in me, which sucks because 40k is what got me into wargaming.

Edit: Even just thinking about my recent experiences with those games gets my blood simmering... I just put myself into a bad mood D:

I respect this mainly because I have a similar issue with yu-gi-oh, I started this with friends but I only use cards where I find them lying around my house when I was 6, and they are outdated by far as they are very old cards (such as the original blue eyes white dragon and relinquished), I do not intend to spend more money on this game mainly because I am more into my models, but the majority of my friends play competitively so I feel like in order to stand a chance to have a game that last more the 30 seconds let alone beating my opponent, i feel like I will have to buy more cards and those new "synchro" and "xyz" cards (to which I still Dont see why they needed to exist), and I can understand how on the whole card games can be annoying mainly because (and for me this is what the game is now) the game play now is just get 3 spell cards that get your most powerful cards out on the field within 2 turns and then you get blown to smitheries, any resistance or counters are dealt with the other trap/spell cards that have been placed down as well.

I have kind of the same problems as well with 40k mainly because I play CSM as well I have only used the new codex twice and have been wiped by a fellow necron player as well with their mindshakle scarabs and warscythe's and gauss... and the detachment of basilisks, but I will say Dont feel too bad with 40k, it is a really unbalanced game when it comes to playing competitively... also the necron codex is a ward codex so there always bound to be OP

.

**Gabrial Seth**

im not saying its matt ward but it matt ward

**GalePrime**

Ok I'll say it, if all of this was going on at your local games store...where were the staff to calm the situation down/kick the offensive player out? They should be there to control situations like this or become rules whores (lack of a better word

). As thats what I've had round me when I've been to one.

**Elemental**

CIsaac wrote:
Yes, some TFG are just monstrous donkey-caves. Some... have problems they have to deal with, too. They don't know how, and this is how it manifests. They need help.

I agree, but....there's a fine line between supporting someone to overcome their bad habits, and just enabling said habits. If someone in your group is being a jerk and you don't want to kick them out, then they still need to be called on their behaviour, by whoever has authority at a club, or maybe by the group as a whole if it's a close circle of people who already know each other.

**notprop**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Crimson-King2120 wrote:
if your 35 years old and can't measure 30' you shouldn't be playing

Not everyone's eyes can measure perception well enough to gauge 30" right.

Rubbish, perception is no great factor in measurin. There's even a lock on almost all tapes sot that you can measure and then read the result.

Most of the (albeit few) times that people do the measure 6" the skip past that clear point, it has had nothing to do with the distance between A and B and everything to do with laziness,'cheating and/or disregard for ones opponent: eyesight is not a factor.

**CIsaac**

Elemental wrote:
CIsaac wrote:
Yes, some TFG are just monstrous donkey-caves. Some... have problems they have to deal with, too. They don't know how, and this is how it manifests. They need help.

I agree, but....there's a fine line between supporting someone to overcome their bad habits, and just enabling said habits. If someone in your group is being a jerk and you don't want to kick them out, then they still need to be called on their behaviour, by whoever has authority at a club, or maybe by the group as a whole if it's a close circle of people who already know each other.

There is, absolutely, a point where they do cross the line of acceptable behavior. I also agree that once that line's been crossed, said behavior shouldn't be tolerated any longer. On the other hand, there's not a lot of ways I've seen mentioned to handle it that does well by both sides.

IMO, the best way to handle is to sit down and talk them. Calmly, rationally, and explain the behavior and the problem with it. Either they'll be able to respond well and try to improve the behavior (and may require assistance, if they truly are a friend, don't stand by and let them go it alone). OTOH, some people won't respond to that and those are usually the TFGs that are beyond changing and are best jettisoned.

I've been TFG and I've also had to deal with TFG (in an RPG environment, not Mini Gaming, but it's very similar). I was able to adjust and get better. The TFG in our RPG environment was best served (as were we) with a change of scenery after several lengthy discussions with him to try to fix things. He was our friend, but gaming was not fitting well with him.

In both situations, though, we were able to avoid losing friends, though in the latter, the makeup of the gaming group changed.

**Tyriion**

I have witnessed, and experienced people quitting/forfeiting due to them losing. I think this is pathetic. My BA Friend was playing I think Tau (the tau player was about 15) and due to his Hammerhead being obliterated, He got extremely upset, and immediately started to pack up his models...

**Alfndrate**

Tyriion wrote:
I have witnessed, and experienced people quitting/forfeiting due to them losing. I think this is pathetic. My BA Friend was playing I think Tau (the tau player was about 15) and due to his Hammerhead being obliterated. He got extremely upset, and immediately started to pack up his models...

Sometimes there is nothing to do but forfeit the game. I was giving Malifaux demos last Friday, and I had a kid that couldn't have been more than like... 12 play a guy that was in his 40s maybe even his 50s. The first game they played was Viktorias (kid) vs. Lady Justice (older gentleman). By the end of turn 3 the Viks player had all but wiped out the Lady Justice crew. He said, "The game's yours young man." they shook, the kid had a gak-eating grin on his face, and then they decided to try my Dreamer/Lord Chompy Bits (kid) and Pandora (older gentleman). This time the exact opposite was true, and the dreamer had 1 model on the table no where near able to defend against Pandora's pinging death, the kid didn't forfeit, but when they both realized that the kid couldn't win because he couldn't prevent the older gentleman from getting his strategy and schemes completed, they called it on turn 4.

I mean forfeiting when you're losing because you're losing and having a bad time, forfeiting when you've been crippled, and realize that you're just dragging out the inevitable and wasting both players' time, then yes, it's okay to forfeit.

**Tyriion**

Alfndrate wrote:
Tyriion wrote:
I have witnessed, and experienced people quitting/forfeiting due to them losing. I think this is pathetic. My BA Friend was playing I think Tau (the tau player was about 15) and due to his Hammerhead being obliterated. He got extremely upset, and immediately started to pack up his models...

Sometimes there is nothing to do but forfeit the game. I was giving Malifaux demos last Friday, and I had a kid that couldn't have been more than like... 12 play a guy that was in his 40s maybe even his 50s. The first game they played was Viktorias (kid) vs. Lady Justice (older gentleman). By the end of turn 3 the Viks player had all but wiped out the Lady Justice crew. He said, "The game's yours young man." they shook, the kid had a gak-eating grin on his face, and then they decided to try my Dreamer/Lord Chompy Bits (kid) and Pandora (older gentleman). This time the exact opposite was true, and the dreamer had 1 model on the table no where near able to defend against Pandora's pinging death, the kid didn't forfeit, but when they both realized that the kid couldn't win because he couldn't prevent the older gentleman from getting his strategy and schemes completed, they called it on turn 4.

I mean forfeiting when you're losing because you're losing and having a bad time, forfeiting when you've been crippled, and realize that you're just dragging out the inevitable and wasting both players' time, then yes, it's okay to forfeit.

I totally agree with you, but all that happened was he lost a hammerhead, he wasnt actually getting demolished or beaten badly, he could of easily won it.

**Alfndrate**

And that's where you're right it's pathetic, sorry for just digging out one solid nugget in your post, but my beef was just the vagaries caused by the "forfeiting because you're losing is pathetic."

**EspadaBTM**

The Great Wolf wrote:
That is just absolutely terrible!
At my FLGS I have walked around watching battles taking place in the past and have seen people acting like this.
I just dont understand the mentality of people like that, why play the game if you are just going to throw accusations and act like a right idiot to your opponent?
I think people must just take the game too seriously these days and become too competitive... because when I play, I play for the fun value alone win or lose.

I agree, despite winning being enjoyable and all, it is just a game and the fun side is much more enduring, and if you're a douche then you wont have anyone to play for fun or competitively!
Im impressed you continued the game, I would have slapped this upstart and walked away.

**captain collius**

CIsaac wrote:
A long time ago, I used to be TFG.

I'd whine. I'd bitch. I threw dice. Stomped around. You name it, I did it. I look back and I don't even know why I did it. Then one day, during a Risk game (it happened with all sorts of games, not just miniature games), I got so mad I shoved my best friend of 16 years hard back down into his chair.

Everyone was just staring at me. The room was dead silent and I think that's the point where I finally realized what was going on. I wasn't 'good naturedly ribbing' everyone. I wasn't 'being passionate about the game'. I was being an unmitigated donkey-cave. I stopped gaming for a while and really had to figure out what was going on. It took something like that before I realized that things were really wrong.

It takes a long time to change habits. And you have to sit and work out the underlying reasons for WHY you started acting like that. There turned out to be some very bad anger issues I had to work out that had been bleeding over into my gaming experiences. As I've aged, I've mellowed out a lot, and it's made things more pleasant for myself and my friends as well.

Every game begins with a polite thanking for playing and ends the same way (along with an offered handshake now). Voice is not allowed to be raised. If there's a rules dispute, the book comes out immediately, or we get a third party, or just dice it off.

I don't want to be that person; the guy everyone hates to be around.

Yes, some TFG are just monstrous donkey-caves. Some... have problems they have to deal with, too. They don't know how, and this is how it manifests. They need help.

Dude I've been there I have anger issues as well. It's hard but just work on it everyday,

A few weeks ago i was playing my friends Chaos Warriors with my Skaven. In turn two he got off Infernal gateway on my 900 pt Plague monks with plague furnace brick. I wanted to quit right there but after i righted myself we played on turn 6 i had a large pool of power dice and I was going to throw them at Dreaded 13th it went off irresistible and turned the remnants of his death star into clan rats.

SO remember always keep calm and play on

**conker249**

Well I haven't played him again. As well as most people there. Now he has almost 12000 points of dark eldar and no opponent. So he brings his army and sits. Asks people to play and they say no thanks. He has one opponent that plays him and its the same thing. I guess that guy is a bigger man than me since I refuse to play him again

**The Foot**

I've had my TFG moments. I was younger and just needed to learn some maturity. Most of the time now if I get curb stomped in my games I will resign since maybe we can get another game in. Sometimes your dice just don't work out but I don't take it personally.

**Cyb3rw0lf**

bdix wrote:Annnnd this is why I quit 40k. For whatever reason, the fantasy crowd is much more relaxed and there to have fun. Played 2 GTs in fantasy and have had nothing but amazing games. can't recall a single 40k tournament where there wasn't a moment like this to some extent.

Funny, it was the opposite for me, I find the 40k crowd here is a lot better than the Fantasy (or maybe its the population difference).

Anyway, I'll admit I've been TFG before (not throwing things/yelling, just irritable), and its mostly when I've gone up against fantasy books by a certain writer in the past. But that's changed a lot in the past few years. Just last night I faced my brother's CSM army, his Chaos Lord and a unit of Berserkers charged my Farsight+TH/SS unit and completely slaughtered them using The Black Mace's 3" Toughness Test, I just kicked back, grinned at him and went on to the next turn. Won 12 to 4

He and I later discussed how its a ridiculously overpowered weapon, but its the only good Daemon Weapon they have now.

We also have TFG at our local shop, 15 year old that believes his Orks cant lose to anything, constantly yells about how one unit is invincible or overpowered. Not to mention a HUGE army with nothing painted and ramshackle conversions (even for Orks). Unfortunately we cant do anything about him...He's the shop owner's son. T_T

**lords2001**

I must say I played a great sport on the weekend - I was rocking 70 space wolves/grey knights, and he was tau - by turn 2 it was 10 kill points to 2, and he had failed all but 1 LD test too. But he was a great sport through it all, laughing it up and talking about the dice (but not in a 'i would win if my dice let me' way). Great game in the end even if it was one sided. I thought I should/could be more like that.

**Monasou**

I'm TFG, and I really need to stop being such a dick. I've got to learn to be more humble.