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Who's said that GoI places you in reserve?

 FlingitNow wrote:
1) GoI tells you to arrive using the deep strike rules.

True

2) Deep strike tells us that arriving is coming from reserve

False. It does no such thing.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Who's said that GoI places you in reserve?

Nobody, which is part of my point. Explain to me how Coteaz get's his special rule to activate if the unit is never placed in reserve, which neither the Deep Strike rules nor GoI gives you express permission to do.

Grendel read the DS rules they are very clear on what arriving is. So you either agree with point 2 or find some rules that illustrate the DS rules defining arriving as something beyond coming from reserves or concede.

Maelstrom: Coteaz's rule is triggered when ever a unit arrives from reserve which GoI makes you do.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Grendel read the DS rules they are very clear on what arriving is. So you either agree with point 2 or find some rules that illustrate the DS rules defining arriving as something beyond coming from reserves.

Go on then. Quote the line.
You know full well it doesn't exist. Reserves are mentioned twice, both requirements. Neither time says what you claim.

or concede

This childish line again? Do you only use this when you have no leg to stand on?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Maelstrom: Coteaz's rule is triggered when ever a unit arrives from reserve which GoI makes you do.

False.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Maelstrom: Coteaz's rule is triggered when ever a unit arrives from reserve which GoI makes you do.

I am well aware of what his rule does. Specifically, where are you given permission to place a unit into reserves using GoI?

Go on then. Quote the line.
You know full well it doesn't exist.

I have done repeatedly.

Specifically, where are you given permission to place a unit into reserves using GoI?

No where who's said you get placed in reserves? GoI says you "arrive using the deep strike rules", the deep strike rules define arriving as coming from reserve.

 FlingitNow wrote:

Go on then. Quote the line.
You know full well it doesn't exist.

I have done repeatedly.

No you haven't. Not once.
It doesn't exits.
I'm calling your bluff now FlingitNow. Quote the line.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FlingitNow wrote:
the deep strike rules define arriving as coming from reserve.

False.

The first line under the title "Arriving by Deep Strike". How many times have I quoted that line Grendel?

 FlingitNow wrote:
The first line under the title "Arriving by Deep Strike". How many times have I quoted that line Grendel?

This line?

BRB p36 "Arriving from Deep Strike wrote:Roll for the arrival of all deep striking units as specified for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:

This can't be the line you're on about, because this does NOT define a unit as arriving from reserve.
This line says you must make a reserve roll.
It says roll for arrival. Then says where the rule is found.
You'll find the Reserve rules define a unit as arriving from reserve, not Deep Strike, and not this line.

Not only that, but due to the rules of GOI, this line is null and void. You are not rolling for arrival as specified in the rules for reserve.
So even if this line did define the unit as arriving from reserve (it doesn't), it is rendered null and void by GOI.

We really are done here.
Rules are clear. Using GOI has nothing to do with Reserves.

 grendel083 wrote:

BRB p36 "Arriving from Deep Strike wrote:Roll for the arrival of all deep striking units as specified for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:

This can't be the line you're on about, because this does NOT define a unit as arriving from reserve.
This line says you must make a reserve roll.
It says roll for arrival. Then says where the rule is found.
You'll find the Reserve rules define a unit as arriving from reserve, not Deep Strike, and not this line.

Exactly this.

 FlingitNow wrote:
DJGietzen that text is a restriction on deep striking and has literally nothing to do with "arriv[ing] by the deep strike rules" which is what GoI tells us to use. For some reason which I can't work out Grendel believe that when GW say " arrive by the deep strike rules" he assumes you don't use the deep strike rules for arriving and instead only use the deep strike rules for deploying. Either that or when GW say action A is arriving then deploy, what they actually mean is action A is arriving then continue arriving whilst deploying as such. Why he assumes GW means something completely different to what they wrote I don't understand and why he claims this is RaW is not even remotely fathomable to me.

But RAW:

1) GoI tells you to arrive using the deep strike rules.
2) Deep strike tells us that arriving is coming from reserve

2) - No it does not. Every single mention of reserves in the Deep strike rule stem from that very 1st sentence, The whole page is written from the perspective that the only units that could use these rules are ones that started the game in reserves.

How, if I may ask, Do you "Roll for the arrival of all deep striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves..." as page 124 makes it quite clear you only roll for units held in reserves. The target of GoI is never put in reserves, there is nothing to roll for. Either we assume that means they cannot arrive from deep strike because they would need to come from reserves or we ignore this portion of the arrive from deep strike and just move on to "... and deploy them as fallows."

Bottom line, you can't arrive from reserves if you are not in reserves and there are WAY to many things that arrive via deep strike that are not in reserves. GoI is just one example.

Well guys if you can't understand the rule that has been quoted just read the rest of the thread that should enlighten you. The rules tell us to arrive by deep strike this does not mean deploy by deep strike as you guys keep suggesting. The DS rules tell us what is arriving (coming from reserve) and what is deploying (everything after that). If you "arrive by the deep strike rules" you arrive from reserve RAW.

 FlingitNow wrote:
you arrive from reserve RAW.

As has been proven, quoted and demonstrated this is false.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Well guys if you can't understand the rule that has been quoted just read the rest of the thread that should enlighten you. The rules tell us to arrive by deep strike this does not mean deploy by deep strike as you guys keep suggesting. The DS rules tell us what is arriving (coming from reserve) and what is deploying (everything after that). If you "arrive by the deep strike rules" you arrive from reserve RAW.

Actually, doesn't the rule state "arrive immediately using the rules for deep strike"? Not to arrive by deep strike. There is a (sort of, but not quite) subtle difference there. You are not arriving by deep strike. At least that's not what the rules for GoI tell us. Arrive immediately (not arrive by deep strike) using the rules for Deep Strike (which requires being in reserves + having the deep strike USR on all models, neither of which is true of a unit using GoI, but is bypassed by the rules for GoI telling us to have the models "arrive immediately" "using the rules for DS".

But hey, if you can't understand the rule that has been quoted, just read the rest of the thread. That should enlighten you.

Seriously, Mods .. this thread has gone on in circular "I'm right" - "No, I'm right" for far too long. How many times can 2-3 people quote the exact same rule and provide their exact same interpretation of that same rule over again before it is ridiculous?

Actually, doesn't the rule state "arrive immediately using the rules for deep strike"? Not to arrive by deep strike. There is a (sort of, but not quite) subtle difference there.

Exactly it says arrive using the deep strike rules which means you MUST use the deep strike rules regarding arriving and what do the deep strike rules define as arriving? So why are you and others contending that we don't use the deep strike rules for arriving but in stead use the deep strike rules for deploying?

 FlingitNow wrote:

Actually, doesn't the rule state "arrive immediately using the rules for deep strike"? Not to arrive by deep strike. There is a (sort of, but not quite) subtle difference there.

Exactly it says arrive using the deep strike rules which means you MUST use the deep strike rules regarding arriving and what do the deep strike rules define as arriving? So why are you and others contending that we don't use the deep strike rules for arriving but in stead use the deep strike rules for deploying?

Becasue the rules for GOI remove all reference to Reserve.
Since the unit was never in reserve and the rules for both GOI and Deep Strike never define the unit as being in reserve, the unit is not arrivng from reserve.

GoI doesn't need to mention reserves it tells us to use the rules for arriving found in the Deep Strike USR. What do the deep strike rules say arriving is?

 FlingitNow wrote:
GoI doesn't need to mention reserves it tells us to use the rules for arriving found in the Deep Strike USR. What do the deep strike rules say arriving is?

Arriving? Is rolling for reserves as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploying in a specified manner.

Arriving? Is rolling for reserves as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploying in a specified manner

The bolded part is nearly correct the rest has nothing to do with arriving according to the DS rules. Arriving is successfully making a reserve roll (failed reserve rolls do not lead to arrival by the DS rules) so arriving is not taking the test but passing it. GoI makes us auto pass it (immediately arrive).

 FlingitNow wrote:

Arriving? Is rolling for reserves as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploying in a specified manner

The bolded part is nearly correct the rest has nothing to do with arriving according to the DS rules. Arriving is successfully making a reserve roll (failed reserve rolls do not lead to arrival by the DS rules) so arriving is not taking the test but passing it. GoI makes us auto pass it (immediately arrive).

Citation needed for the underlined.

Citation is the part in brackets, it is from the GoI rules.

BRB p36 "Arriving from Deep Strike wrote:Roll for the arrival of all deep striking units as specified for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:

Arriving is also this part, as well as the rules to go with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Citation is the part in brackets, it is from the GoI rules.

GOI does not make you auto-pass. There is no roll to pass or fail. It removes the need to roll completely, which in turn removes any reference to reserves.

Arriving is also this part, as well as the rules to go with it.

Citation required because the rule you just posted states the exact opposite of that. It states you do action A to decide arrival and then deploy making the deployment part a separate distinct action.

GOI does not make you auto-pass.

It makes you immediately arrive. Arriving is passing a reserves roll (unless you are claiming that units arrive regardless of pass or fail of the roll), so GoI tells you to "immediately [pass a reserves roll] using the deep strike rules".

 FlingitNow wrote:

Arriving is also this part, as well as the rules to go with it.

Citation required because the rule you just posted states the exact opposite of that. It states you do action A to decide arrival and then deploy making the deployment part a separate distinct action.

Your "action A" isn't even used when using GOI, so why do you keep refering to it? The requirement (yes requirement, that's all it is) to make a reserve roll is bypassed by the rules of GOI.
You definition of "arriving" does not even come into play.

GOI does not make you auto-pass.

It makes you immediately arrive. Arriving is passing a reserves roll (unless you are claiming that units arrive regardless of pass or fail of the roll), so GoI tells you to "immediately [pass a reserves roll] using the deep strike rules".

This is another of your made-up rules i'm afraid.
There is a huge difference between auto-passing a roll and not needing to roll at all.
If you'd like an example, how about shooting at fliers?
An "auto-hit" will not hit them, but an effect that simply causes a hit will.

And you can't pass a reserve roll, the unit isn't in reserve! It's one of the fundamental requirements of reserve. The entire rolling process is bypassed, it isn't passed because the reserve rules won't allow it.
Unless you're saying GOI bypasses the need to be in reserve, in which case hurrah! the unit isn't arriving from reserve. Glad you got there in the end.

Your "action A" isn't even used when using GOI, so why do you keep refering to it? The requirement (yes requirement, that's all it is) to make a reserve roll is bypassed by the rules of GOI.
You definition of "arriving" does not even come into play.

And back to the claim that GoI says "deploy using the deep strike rules". It does not say that stop claiming that it does. You must use the arriving part of the sentence because you are told to arrive using the deep strike rules, you can't just skip to the part about deploying using the deep strike rules.

This is another of your made-up rules i'm afraid.
There is a huge difference between auto-passing a roll and not needing to roll at all.
If you'd like an example, how about shooting at fliers?
An "auto-hit" will not hit them, but an effect that simply causes a hit will.

What do the GoI rules tell us to do?
What do the DS rules tell us arriving is?

And you can't pass a reserve roll, the unit isn't in reserve! It's one of the fundamental requirements of reserve.

A requirement GoI bypasses. Just as starting in reserve is one of the fundamental requirements of Deep Striking (which GoI also bypasses).

 FlingitNow wrote:

Your "action A" isn't even used when using GOI, so why do you keep refering to it? The requirement (yes requirement, that's all it is) to make a reserve roll is bypassed by the rules of GOI.
You definition of "arriving" does not even come into play.

And back to the claim that GoI says "deploy using the deep strike rules". It does not say that stop claiming that it does. You must use the arriving part of the sentence because you are told to arrive using the deep strike rules, you can't just skip to the part about deploying using the deep strike rules.

The "arrive sentence" also states "then deploy them as follows". Part that YOU keep skipping. Arriving isn't just the reserve roll. It's reserve roll and deploying.
The reserve roll is replaced by "immediately arrive", then you deploy.
All reference to reserve is removed thanks to GOI. Another point you keep skipping.
Thanks to GOI the unit "arrives immediately then deploys". That is what arriving by GOI is defined as. No reserves at all.

This is another of your made-up rules i'm afraid.
There is a huge difference between auto-passing a roll and not needing to roll at all.
If you'd like an example, how about shooting at fliers?
An "auto-hit" will not hit them, but an effect that simply causes a hit will.

What do the GoI rules tell us to do?

Arrive immediately via Deep Strike.

What do the DS rules tell us arriving is?

Make a reserve roll then deploy.

So there is no reserve roll at all. It most definitely isn't an auto-pass roll.

And you can't pass a reserve roll, the unit isn't in reserve! It's one of the fundamental requirements of reserve.

A requirement GoI bypasses. Just as starting in reserve is one of the fundamental requirements of Deep Striking (which GoI also bypasses).

Great, so you agree GOI bypasses the need for a reserve roll?
That's the last reference to reserve in the Deep Strike rule. If this is bypassed, then the unit definitely is not, cannot be in reserve. Thank you for finally admitting that.

I've read though each post in the thread. It was a good read. One question though, if the unit using GoI deploys using a scatter dice, what happens if the unit scatters into a building or another squad. Do we still use the mishap table?

Of course they mishap.
Nothing in GOI says they wouldn't.

The "arrive sentence" also states "then deploy them as follows".

Exactly "then deploy" as in something you do next after arriving part of the sentence. So we're agreed deploying by the deep strike ruled is something you do after arriving by the deep strike rules. What does GoI tell us to do?