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 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
And Death Cult Assassins and Assassinorum people, but hey, they are barely human at all.

Whatever assassins are they're not human, not fully anyway. I was merely stating that I5 is something that we as normal unaugmented humans cannot comprehend.

Which I agree with.

Everyone is assuming that the lightning claws are on their way down. They could easily be pulling back to strike the blow.

Fragile wrote:
Everyone is assuming that the lightning claws are on their way down. They could easily be pulling back to strike the blow.

Except for the fact that Shrike's feet aren't on the floor, and are set for a landing, not after a jump - and his jump pack would be firing if he was ascending, which it isn't.

Fortunately for Shadowsun, Hammer of Wrath attacks don't let you use your weapons' AP.

Well, its clearly designed to be a more epic picture showing the fight. I'll bet in the book those three characters never even get close to each other.

If you go by the fluff there are only two real outcomes. If we believe that Chapter Masters are all that and a bag of chips there is now way that Shadowsun would be anything more than a smear of blood against the rocks after this confrontation. However, the fact that it took two Chapter Masters to bring her down is a tribute to her prowess and skill.

Option two is that she wins and escapes, which quite frankly (if we are still to believe that Chapter Masters are godly in skill and power) Shadowsun is more skillful than most named characters in the universe. Having not only survived and bested two Chapter Masters, but then lead her troops onto the route of both enemy armies.

Shadowsun is cool, but not that cool. I think the picture is just designed to look cool and doesn't actually represent anything in the book.

I'm going to echo what others have said in that I don't think she is about to be slain, rather it is an interesting picture to highlight the intensity of the battle.

 Jayden63 wrote:
Well, its clearly designed to be a more epic picture showing the fight. I'll bet in the book those three characters never even get close to each other.

k.

This fight does happen in the collection of novellas.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/damocles_.html

So both chapter masters go to kill shadowsun.

...SPOILER ALERT...

I heard in the actual story it's not really Shadowsun, but an AI controlled "puppet" meant to draw the marines in close in order to test a new weapon,

Awesome portrait of the current 40K meta, you need 2 Space Marine Chapter Master to have a chance to fighting Tau, Notice the picture only have dead SM's and no dead Tau?

 EmilCrane wrote:
Initiative 5 is faster than any human can ever be, except Marbo because he's marbo.

Saint Celestine is I7. DCA have already been mentioned, I have never read in the fluff that they were genetically or otherwise augmented.

Celestine is a Living Saint.

She is nowhere near a human.

DCA be crazy, mon. They are Marbo on speed-drugs.

Plus, game mechanics do not always equal fluff...

It's quite simple.

The Space Marine player is disqualified for cheating because both of his characters - Shrike and Khan - are fighting in the same Challenge in the same melee, against the Tau player's Shadowsun.

Lore-wise, no matter who dies there, that's gonna alter history. Because as far as I know, all three of those people are alive presently.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Plus, game mechanics do not always equal fluff...

Please, can you tell me why you are now making this incredibly spot-on remark, yet it did not occur to you when EmilCrane said “Initiative 5 is faster than any human can ever be, except Marbo because he's marbo. Shadowsun is Initiative 4, probably by virtue of her suit but that wouldn't save her, just means that she might actually see it coming. ” ?
Just because being answered with this kind of observation when answering to someone that already mixed crunch and fluff is getting tiresome. If you notice me saying something, anything really, that mix fluff and crunch, please check if I was answering to someone who was doing that too. If that is the case, then either make the remark to him/her, or do not make the remark at all.
Thank you.

I said that to refer to the general discussion, not specifically DCA.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:
...SPOILER ALERT...

I heard in the actual story it's not really Shadowsun, but an AI controlled "puppet" meant to draw the marines in close in order to test a new weapon,

Ugh, really?

I hate when they use dopplegangers. They do that in Path of the Archon and it was so bad. Plus its a little out there for Tau to have life like androids and an exact copy of Shadowsuns one of a kind weapon systems. A hologram could easily suffice for the purposes of luring them.

It would also detract even further from the character by not having her actually get to fight but this distant force pulling strings against our space marine protagonists. Almost certainly means you won't get a Shadowsun POV during that fight.

Really don't like how a bit of Tau canon where they win is being turned into bolter porn for the White Scars and Raven Guard; with those chapters involvement being the central focus. Its especially glaring because before it was actually the Ultramarines and their successor chapters who are mentioned most strongly in relation to the Third Sphere expansion. Rolling out the Raven Guard and White Scars is purely because the new Marine codex focused on them. If they want to do stuff focused on them; fine, invent a new seperate battle where they win. But why they have to change canon to make two named chapters and a particular blend of chapter tactics the focus of the campaign is really gaulling. Again, this is just to make them and the Imperial Knights look good when Agrellan issupposed to be a DISASTER for the Imperium. Its like trying to make Istvaan from the Horus Heresy look like some great heroic triumph. Its really telling that GW will actually reduce the amount of little xenos lore to boost the reputation of marines who I am sure already have many, many stories dedicated to them. But no, every piece of artwork has to have the space marines pawning legions of tau.

Well if they kept her helmet on, making it a robot would be reasonable(ish).

The thing is that tau would not waste the resources on something like that, they would probably just use the weapon.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I said that to refer to the general discussion, not specifically DCA.

Okay, but you are not the only one, I have been seeing that just too often.
Generally speaking, I think when WS/BS/I becomes more than 6, it becomes a bit confusing. What exactly is the difference between WS7 and WS8 ? They seem pretty similar from down there.
Also, I think the profile for DCA is just non-sense. They just have a better profile than eldar aspect warrior ! And what about that S4, it does not make sense ! Poisoned would be more fluffy, even though I am not sure poison would work well with power weapons.

I find it best to think that a single melee attack is actuly multiple, thus accounting for the strength (after all, a human slapping with their rifle is not as powerful as them shooting you with it).

Shrike and Korsarro Kahn are Captains, not Chapter Masters.

So this picture has generated five pages of discussion in a relatively short time, I think it was the artist's intention to get our lore/action gears turning by making it so narrative and close.

My two cents, Tau tech is superior to Man's and it's all the advanced junk in her suit, the crisis suit and that little drone swooping in that pull her out of the fire before the marine can kill her, like the drone gets in the way of the claw last second, pretty intense.

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

My two cents, Tau tech is superior to Man's

Except for the part where it isn't.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

My two cents, Tau tech is superior to Man's

Except for the part where it isn't.

Except for the part where there are many examples of either race being extremely advanced but Tau's approach to technology alone makes them more advanced.

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

My two cents, Tau tech is superior to Man's

Except for the part where it isn't.

Except for the part where there are many examples of either race being extremely advanced but Tau's approach to technology alone makes them more advanced.

The cutting-edge tech of the Imperium is far more advanced, it's just that the Tau, by virtue of not spanning the Galaxy, can distribute their tech to their soldiers more easily.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

My two cents, Tau tech is superior to Man's

Except for the part where it isn't.

Except for the part where there are many examples of either race being extremely advanced but Tau's approach to technology alone makes them more advanced.

The cutting-edge tech of the Imperium is far more advanced, it's just that the Tau, by virtue of not spanning the Galaxy, can distribute their tech to their soldiers more easily.

In other words, the Tau tech present in that particular picture is more advanced than the Imperial tech cause the best Imperial tech is elsewhere? Those are captains I know, but Shadowsun 'outranks' them by far, she's got the best the Tau have to offer.

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

My two cents, Tau tech is superior to Man's

Except for the part where it isn't.

Except for the part where there are many examples of either race being extremely advanced but Tau's approach to technology alone makes them more advanced.

The cutting-edge tech of the Imperium is far more advanced, it's just that the Tau, by virtue of not spanning the Galaxy, can distribute their tech to their soldiers more easily.

In other words, the Tau tech present in that particular picture is more advanced than the Imperial tech cause the best Imperial tech is elsewhere? Those are captains I know, but Shadowsun 'outranks' them by far, she's got the best the Tau have to offer.

The Black Carapace and Astartes Power Armour is easily superior to their Tau equivalents as well. Further, Iron Halos are pretty damn good for their size, fluff-wise. Neither of the two Captains are wearing armour, they're part of the armour. Not to mention all the tech that goes into the creation of Space Marines.

The Tau aren't a threat because their elite units are more powerful than those of the Imperium, they're a threat because their basic grunts are much more dangerous than those of (most) Imperial Guard regiments.

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

My two cents, Tau tech is superior to Man's

Except for the part where it isn't.

Except for the part where there are many examples of either race being extremely advanced but Tau's approach to technology alone makes them more advanced.

The cutting-edge tech of the Imperium is far more advanced, it's just that the Tau, by virtue of not spanning the Galaxy, can distribute their tech to their soldiers more easily.

In other words, the Tau tech present in that particular picture is more advanced than the Imperial tech cause the best Imperial tech is elsewhere? Those are captains I know, but Shadowsun 'outranks' them by far, she's got the best the Tau have to offer.

It's mostly the top vs the average. Tau average tech is much better than human average tech, however human top tech is better than tau top tech. The thing is that human top tech is irreplaceable and tau top tech is able to be reproduced.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

My two cents, Tau tech is superior to Man's

Except for the part where it isn't.

Except for the part where there are many examples of either race being extremely advanced but Tau's approach to technology alone makes them more advanced.

The cutting-edge tech of the Imperium is far more advanced, it's just that the Tau, by virtue of not spanning the Galaxy, can distribute their tech to their soldiers more easily.

In other words, the Tau tech present in that particular picture is more advanced than the Imperial tech cause the best Imperial tech is elsewhere? Those are captains I know, but Shadowsun 'outranks' them by far, she's got the best the Tau have to offer.

It's mostly the top vs the average. Tau average tech is much better than human average tech, however human top tech is better than tau top tech. The thing is that human top tech is irreplaceable and tau top tech is able to be reproduced.

Titans aren't irreplacable, Terminator Armour isn't irreplacable, Dreadknights aren't irreplacable, Power Armour isn't irreplacable, Nova Cannons aren't irreplacable, Warp Drives aren't irreplacable etc etc etc.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

My two cents, Tau tech is superior to Man's

Except for the part where it isn't.

Except for the part where there are many examples of either race being extremely advanced but Tau's approach to technology alone makes them more advanced.

The cutting-edge tech of the Imperium is far more advanced, it's just that the Tau, by virtue of not spanning the Galaxy, can distribute their tech to their soldiers more easily.

In other words, the Tau tech present in that particular picture is more advanced than the Imperial tech cause the best Imperial tech is elsewhere? Those are captains I know, but Shadowsun 'outranks' them by far, she's got the best the Tau have to offer.

It's mostly the top vs the average. Tau average tech is much better than human average tech, however human top tech is better than tau top tech. The thing is that human top tech is irreplaceable and tau top tech is able to be reproduced.

Titans aren't irreplacable, Terminator Armour isn't irreplacable, Dreadknights aren't irreplacable, Power Armour isn't irreplacable, Nova Cannons aren't irreplacable, Warp Drives aren't irreplacable etc etc etc.

Terminator armour, Dreadknights, power armour, ect are not top tech (and tau have things that match). The TOP tech (think golden throne) are irreplaceable, mostly because of he ad-mechs incompetence. Tau also have the advantage of being able to produce things cheaply. Take titians, they are really expensive and require a one-in-a-million individual to pilot. Tigershark AX-1-0s however are cheaply retrofitted from existing models and can be flown by any member of the air caste.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

My two cents, Tau tech is superior to Man's

Except for the part where it isn't.

Except for the part where there are many examples of either race being extremely advanced but Tau's approach to technology alone makes them more advanced.

The cutting-edge tech of the Imperium is far more advanced, it's just that the Tau, by virtue of not spanning the Galaxy, can distribute their tech to their soldiers more easily.

In other words, the Tau tech present in that particular picture is more advanced than the Imperial tech cause the best Imperial tech is elsewhere? Those are captains I know, but Shadowsun 'outranks' them by far, she's got the best the Tau have to offer.

The Black Carapace and Astartes Power Armour is easily superior to their Tau equivalents as well. Further, Iron Halos are pretty damn good for their size, fluff-wise. Neither of the two Captains are wearing armour, they're part of the armour. Not to mention all the tech that goes into the creation of Space Marines.

The Tau aren't a threat because their elite units are more powerful than those of the Imperium, they're a threat because their basic grunts are much more dangerous than those of (most) Imperial Guard regiments.

You're right, the tech used by Space Marine captains is more advanced than Shadowsun's.

How is black carapace and power armor superior to crisis suits?