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http://ukitakumuki.deviantart.com/art/Black-Library-Damocles-440458999

Now, this is an awesome piece of artwork; don't get me wrong.

But, there is no way Shadowsun could survive that. Two space marine special characters in close combat. The white scars guy has wrecked her shield drone and with her screaming in pain his power sword obviously cut across her back. Whereas Shrike (raven guard captain) has a lightening claw about to go straight through her chest. Theres literally no way the character could survive, its like the split second before she gets killed. Unless that crisis battlesuit whos just looking at the fight is able to Bruce Lee both captains out of the way in a microsecond I cannot imagine how she survives this. It goes without saying that a lightening claw from a space marine through the chest would kill her. This does stretch credulity to believe that Shadowsun could survive this encounter.

Plus, as regards the tone of the artwork. It clearly shows the Imperium in the ascendence and looks like they are about to kill the tau leader and rout her army. Which goes completely against the course of what actually happens in the Agrellan campaign. It is a crushing victory for the Tau Empire and Shadowsun. Its set up as the definitive moment where the Tau seriously go on the offensive against the Imperium and beat it at its own game in a massive war. TBH I really don't like how they seem to be selling the Damocles book on the premise of bigging up the White Scars/Raven Guard combo of chapter tactics. Neither chapter is even mentioned in the Tau codex during the several descriptions of this battle and you know for a fact they're going to alter the story to not make either chapter look bad. But by all rights, they should lose this war on Agrellan badly; unless they rewrite all the canon they just established on this so that the Imperium wins. Again, I really hope the apocalypse book and associated novella anthology doesn't focus on the Imperial and space marine factions.

I also noticed that with the Imperial Knights description of the battle. Where they were mowing down the tau and beating shadowsun at Agrellan. But then not to make the knights look bad they have the knights randomly withdraw when they see riptides. Despite the fact that the tau codex makes it clear that the riptides were killing baneblades. Which are a lot more powerful than the knight titans. Then how is their exit from the war a big deal? So surely they could have beaten the knights in this situation alongside the other Imperial super heavies? But, again, its reworking canon to market newer models and make the Imperium look good when the whole point of that battle is that they lose badly.

Artistic license, Plot armor and a clock stuck just before midnight is how!

I think the crisis suit does a sudden jetpack blast, grabs her and flies to safety.

Boniface wrote:
I think the crisis suit does a sudden jetpack blast, grabs her and flies to safety.

Shrikes blades are almost touching her armor...

Chaos ex machina. She gets sucked into the warp in less than a microsecond and spitted out at her command center.

You can't actually strike blows against shadowsun. She has stealth/shrouded and thus, can't be seen. Not unless you have some sort of confounded UV light.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
You can't actually strike blows against shadowsun. She has stealth/shrouded and thus, can't be seen. Not unless you have some sort of confounded UV light.

Her camo would probably deactivate due to her armour being cut open by a power sword. Plus, both marines are obviously going for her specifically. Obviously they can see her.

You have to admit, that is a shockingly one sided fight. There aren't many foes in the game who could take on two space marine captains alone in close combat. Shadowsun, a tau, without a big battlesuit, is definetly not one of those characters. Farsight, yes. Him I could see managing it.

Maybe she drops to the floor and does a Frodo going all invisible.
Or suddenly thrusts backwards and avoids the strike then does a runner.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
You can't actually strike blows against shadowsun. She has stealth/shrouded and thus, can't be seen. Not unless you have some sort of confounded UV light.

Her camo would probably deactivate due to her armour being cut open by a power sword. Plus, both marines are obviously going for her specifically. Obviously they can see her.

You have to admit, that is a shockingly one sided fight. There aren't many foes in the game who could take on two space marine captains alone in close combat. Shadowsun, a tau, without a big battlesuit, is definetly not one of those characters. Farsight, yes. Him I could see managing it.

I'm fairly certain he was joking, the UV light part alone is obvious. But yeah, in that picture Shrike's got her.

EDIT: this is the pic on the artist's deviantart page.

Nah, Shadowsun is the chosen champion of the Big E. Ain't no Space Marine Captain can kill her.

Maybe the suit behind her thrusts into shrike at the last second knocking his strike off and she gets away.
Or maybe it's a conspiracy and Shadowsun is not the same person anymore.
Then again maybe the book is going to kill off Shadowsun so Tau players can't use her anymore for Farsight shenanigans.

Boniface wrote:
Maybe the suit behind her thrusts into shrike at the last second knocking his strike off and she gets away.
Or maybe it's a conspiracy and Shadowsun is not the same person anymore.
Then again maybe the book is going to kill off Shadowsun so Tau players can't use her anymore for Farsight shenanigans.

The scene in the pic is already inside the last second. Shrike's pose indicates that he either rushed inside her range or just landed with his jump pack, either way he's got momentum. His strike is already in motion and his claws are what, a foot away from her chest? To go off that pic alone she won't make it.

That being said I'm 100% positive the artist depicted it like this because he thought it was cool rather than as any kind of indication as to what will happen.

Boniface wrote:
Maybe the suit behind her thrusts into shrike at the last second knocking his strike off and she gets away.
Or maybe it's a conspiracy and Shadowsun is not the same person anymore.
Then again maybe the book is going to kill off Shadowsun so Tau players can't use her anymore for Farsight shenanigans.

The problem is. Whilst the crisis bodyguard could do something. He wouldn't be fast enough nor does he look in a position to stop Shrike stabbing her. Which would kill an ordinary tau once you've pierced her armor. I imagine the story might say its(somehow) just a mortal blow and the crisis suit recovers her. Because apparently this fight does actually happen in one of the short stories of the book. Bit of a spoiler TBH; she obviously loses.

Nah, if you want to use shadowsun you put her with a squad of kitted out crisis suits with tank hunters. Have them leap out of cover shoot and then redeploy 3d6 into cover for 2+ cover saves. Few drones to absorb any dangerous terrain tests. It is a brutal strategy when used in tandem with markerlights. Especially since she can infiltrate as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orblivion wrote:

Boniface wrote:
Maybe the suit behind her thrusts into shrike at the last second knocking his strike off and she gets away.
Or maybe it's a conspiracy and Shadowsun is not the same person anymore.
Then again maybe the book is going to kill off Shadowsun so Tau players can't use her anymore for Farsight shenanigans.

The scene in the pic is already inside the last second. Shrike's pose indicates that he either rushed inside her range or just landed with his jump pack, either way he's got momentum. His strike is already in motion and his claws are what, a foot away from her chest? To go off that pic alone she won't make it.

That being said I'm 100% positive the artist depicted it like this because he thought it was cool rather than as any kind of indication as to what will happen.

Thing is I am not sure how its meant to be cool. Its cruel. Two space marine captains on a ranged special character. Its no contest. I mean you maybe get the sense that they've rushed through the tau army in a Last Samurai type charge to try and kill her. But I don't think thats neccesarily conveyed in the artwork; the Imperials seem to have the fight in hand in the background. Whilst the surprise of her bodyguard might indicate a sudden rush I don't think this comes across if thats the "heroic" aspect of this. It just looks like 2 space marines pawning a much weaker character in close combat. I don't think we're meant to sympathise with Shadowsun in the scene so its hard to get the artists intent. Its not exactly heroic to kill shadowsun in close combat with two space marine special characters; there just isn't any challange to it. A contrast would be an Imperial Knight gutting a riptide which they have in another piece of artwork. Thats a fairly close match up and fair; with it being a heroic achievemant for a titan to kill one riptide. This just ain't.

If this book sees one of the very few female characters in the setting killed by yet another boring stupid idiotic marine, I will be very pissed.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If this book sees one of the very few female characters in the setting killed by yet another boring stupid idiotic marine, I will be very pissed.

Actually they are selling another audiobook which I suspect follows on from this fight thats in the novella. In it the White Scars are also chasing down Shadowsun to hunt her down.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/shape-of-the-hunt-mp3.html

You know. I think they might actually do it. Not like its never happened before. They killed Lelith in an old Deathwatch book. It would be a bit odd to sell two works of fiction about trying to kill Shadowsun and have them fail both times. Unless they make the point that this is a tragic failure on both instances or do it from Shadowsuns perspective for the novella and have the hunt be a tragic failure; they would almost have to do it to avoid cheating readers.

When the Ordo Artsies were commissioned with depicting the battle with an Oilicus Paintium they tried to keep it as accurate as possible.
The original draft of two lumbering brutes staring off into the distance while fusion shots from an invisible assailant peppered their lines was poorly received.

A second draft went immediately into works done by a second team (first team all committed suicide by heresy) displaying their beloved heroes fighting the xenos scum in a more suitable manner befitting gentlemen of such noble stature.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Actually they are selling another audiobook which I suspect follows on from this fight thats in the novella. In it the White Scars are also chasing down Shadowsun to hunt her down.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/shape-of-the-hunt-mp3.html

You know. I think they might actually do it. Not like its never happened before. They killed Lelith in an old Deathwatch book. It would be a bit odd to sell two works of fiction about trying to kill Shadowsun and have them fail both times. Unless they make the point that this is a tragic failure on both instances or do it from Shadowsuns perspective for the novella and have the hunt be a tragic failure; they would almost have to do it to avoid cheating readers.

I really, really need to stop caring, and play/read Iron Kingdom stuff instead.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If this book sees one of the very few female characters in the setting killed by yet another boring stupid idiotic marine, I will be very pissed.

Actually they are selling another audiobook which I suspect follows on from this fight thats in the novella. In it the White Scars are also chasing down Shadowsun to hunt her down.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/shape-of-the-hunt-mp3.html

You know. I think they might actually do it. Not like its never happened before. They killed Lelith in an old Deathwatch book. It would be a bit odd to sell two works of fiction about trying to kill Shadowsun and have them fail both times. Unless they make the point that this is a tragic failure on both instances or do it from Shadowsuns perspective for the novella and have the hunt be a tragic failure; they would almost have to do it to avoid cheating readers.

When did they kill Lelith? Do you remember the name of the book?

 Orblivion wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If this book sees one of the very few female characters in the setting killed by yet another boring stupid idiotic marine, I will be very pissed.

Actually they are selling another audiobook which I suspect follows on from this fight thats in the novella. In it the White Scars are also chasing down Shadowsun to hunt her down.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/shape-of-the-hunt-mp3.html

You know. I think they might actually do it. Not like its never happened before. They killed Lelith in an old Deathwatch book. It would be a bit odd to sell two works of fiction about trying to kill Shadowsun and have them fail both times. Unless they make the point that this is a tragic failure on both instances or do it from Shadowsuns perspective for the novella and have the hunt be a tragic failure; they would almost have to do it to avoid cheating readers.

When did they kill Lelith? Do you remember the name of the book?

Ugh I can't sorry. It was really old and they don't confirm that she died. But they do the whole thing where the villain is in an exploding facility with the warp pouring in. So its really just a comic book death. It was in the Deathwatch novel series. BTW it was a really bad book.

Honestly though, I don't know whether to be glad they're giving the character this much attention or despairing that they could kill her off in an audiobook to make White Scars look cool.

They added a TON of lore and background stuff about her in the new codex alone. Then went on to expand all of that in the background of other codexes and this whole inter-related series of items. Strange considering she has a really old model.

Also guys, Shadowsun does have an invulnerable save. And bodyguards are decent in close combat. 3 S5AP- attacks is deece.

She also had a book titled after her and revolving around her. I was tempted to read it, but couldn't get past the synopsis.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
Also guys, Shadowsun does have an invulnerable save. And bodyguards are decent in close combat. 3 S5AP- attacks is deece.

Well, I guess one of her shield drones is clearly still there in the background. Depends on how the artist think shield drones work though. Game wise, they can work as ablative wounds and confer inv saves. But lore wise I think they tend to project a bubble and probably wouldn't work in close combat like that. But yes, if the logic is that it provides her a 3+ inv save then she could survive that attack and jet pack away.

In game terms I that she got smacked with the sword, then Shrike whiffs his attacks, or only does a single wound, end of turn 7, everyone goes home happy.

In universe, yeah, she's getting a beat down. Perhaps they leave her for dead thinking the four new ventilation holes in her chest have killed her and she survives?

EDIT: Actually looking closer, that sword doesn't seem to be wounding her, it lops off part of her suit, but that arc means it's not slicing into her proper.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
In game terms I that she got smacked with the sword, then Shrike whiffs his attacks, or only does a single wound, end of turn 7, everyone goes home happy.

In universe, yeah, she's getting a beat down. Perhaps they leave her for dead thinking the four new ventilation holes in her chest have killed her and she survives?

Well. In game terms if it was me. Shrike and Khan would never get in close combat with her. I'd jump within 12 inches of them. Markerlight the squad to take away their pesky stealth rules and up BS. Then proceed to hit them with five str8 ap2 shots and 6 twin linked str6 ap2 shots before jumping 3d6 away from them. Then repeat the same thing next turn...

In response to your edit

Yeah a bit of the jet pack. Probs not flying away either then.

Farsight shows up Tuxedo Mask style to save her? Oh wait, wrong anime.

"Arigato, Shovah-kun..."

I mean seriously the marines claw gauntlet is bigger than her armoured chest. This is abuse.

The picture is a point of view image drawn from the perspective of a big battle suit as he unloads both weapons on the two space marine captains?

It's just like a comic book. The cover is not in any way representative of the actual action going on inside.

How many comic books show the whole super team of good guys at the villains feet as he laughs or two good guys fighting to the death against each other when on the inside the team barely gets smacked around a bit and the two good guys have an argument over something trivial?

Neither of them have eternal warrior and she has a fusion blaster.
Oh, and Shadowsun has a Sheild generator

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
It's just like a comic book. The cover is not in any way representative of the actual action going on inside.

How many comic books show the whole super team of good guys at the villains feet as he laughs or two good guys fighting to the death against each other when on the inside the team barely gets smacked around a bit and the two good guys have an argument over something trivial?

Sounds like you grew up reading the Silver Age.