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 th3maninblak wrote:
Latest rumors posted on BoLS point to the angels coming out in mid november, after the 4-5 week end times part 2 release. Anyone know how reliable the source is? Its from steve_the_warboss.

The special jump pack would probably do something with hammer of wrath. Like d6+1 str5 hits, regardless of whether or not you used your pack in the movement phase.

Or
>Let the Jet Packs be used in both Movement and Assault.
or
>No Scatter Deep Strike.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Latest rumors posted on BoLS point to the angels coming out in mid november, after the 4-5 week end times part 2 release. Anyone know how reliable the source is? Its from steve_the_warboss.

I think that's more a matter of looking at the schedule and trying to figure out what works best, logically. Like, that's when I'd guess it's coming out, but I also guess that this dude on BoLS has the same number of sources I do (which is none).

As for guesses about the supplement, I'd guess that there will be a Death Company heavy supplement or formation that we see either in the main codex or in the corresponding supplement.

This source has been right before, particularly in regards to the dark eldar release (like the schedule of what is getting spoiled in white dwarf and when) so i would put the rumors at slightly above average reliability.

Fair enough. Even still, I think "Blood Angels will be after The End Time part 2" is what anybody would guess at this point, so it doesn't really take any special knowledge to report that. If this source has some solid rumors on what we're getting or losing, THAT is something I'd be interested in.

 tomjoad wrote:
Fair enough. Even still, I think "Blood Angels will be after The End Time part 2" is what anybody would guess at this point, so it doesn't really take any special knowledge to report that. If this source has some solid rumors on what we're getting or losing, THAT is something I'd be interested in.

Logic would dictate that we arent losing anything, since everything in our codex has models at this point. My predictions are as follows.

-Mephiston and the Sanguinor move to lords of war. Mephy gets more expensive, but gains an ap2 weapon and gets back his old mobility. The sanguinor takes a mild price decrease.

-Dante stays an HQ. He gets cheaper, and his weapon becomes str user, ap2 and master crafted. His death mask changes, but his hit and run and precision deep strike abilities remain. Moving sanguinary guard to troops will vanish, being replaced by some kind of warlord trait manipulation.

-All of our units change in points cost to match the space marine books. Vanguard vets change in rules to match codex SM, but otherwise all our options remain the same.

-Red thirst will see a rework, to maybe granting rage after destroying a unit in the assault phase. Descent of angels will remain the same.

-Sang guard will remain the same, but go down to 30ppm.

-Sang priests will become slotless hqs. They may lose their bubble, and instead affect only their squad, but in that case will become cheaper.

-No entirely new units, and no access to unique SM units.

Edit: in addition to warlord trats, psy powers, and relics

The death of the Sanguinator, I hate him with a passion, the prissy #$@&.

 Achaylus72 wrote:
The death of the Sanguinator, I hate him with a passion, the prissy #$@&.

Haters gonna hate.

 Orblivion wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
Some flying bat, coffin or such creation to match the space wolves.
Maybe a chariot pulled by somthing if your unlucky/

Don,t forget obilgetery add on that costs extra.

Nothing against you personally, but can we stop with the blood chariot jokes please? It's quite a dead horse at this point.

We're already tired of it and there haven't even been any solid rumours yet. What if it actually happens?

Anyway, "Glaives Encarmine" are axes and swords, mostly. I wouldn't be surprised if it could refer to just about any bladed weapon of a similar fashion, so maybe the name is more in reference to an original weapon that was an actual glaive. Then again, the Mechanicus have "plasma fusils" which are certainly not a type of musket, so they might just not care for correct terminology.

Another thing I'd like a reduction on is the cost of our vehicles:

Whirlwind paying such a hefty points tax to be fast is ridiculous.
A baal pred compared to a AM punisher is hugely overcosted.

Our dreads find it very difficult to get into combat - therefore everyone who takes a dread only goes for podded furiosos with frag.

All LRs in all dexes are overcosted - I don't see this being changed. I do however predict that they may take away the points deduction in taking raiders for Assault marines. Which would be a nerf for no reason as it is not like they are points efficient even with the 35pt saving.

Rhinos do nothing for our assault squads since they are not assault vehicles. Although OS on these makes them viable again.

I expect armor with totally awesome abs sculpted on and nothing more

 Dust wrote:
I expect armor with totally awesome abs sculpted on and nothing more

You forgot nipples.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.

The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.

Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.

I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.

On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.

I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...

BaalSNAFU wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.

The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.

Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.

I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.

On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.

.


I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...

I think that has come down to your local META and use of them. Look at the Grey Knights, they can pull off all Terminator Armies and win constantly.
Places where S10, AP2, Pie is prevalent Terminators have issues, but that is not everywhere. In my local META Terminators can easily dominate a game just because of their 2+ Save.

I think that it will come down to what they do with Sanguinary Units. [For Arguments sake lets assume the Glaives will just be Similar to Frost Swords]. Using Wolf Guard as a point of Measure:
>Sanguinary Jump Guard: Wolf Guard with a Frost Weapon and Jump Pack are 41 points.
>Sanguinary Terminator Guard: Wolf Guard Terminators with Frost Blades are 38 points.
So I am thinking now 35-40 ppm is where they both will sitting at, though I feel it should be around 30-35 ppm. Drop the price by 5 if they are just fancy Power Weapons.

The other thing SG need is the ability to up the squad size. With the 5-man cap it only takes one or two failed saves to cripple the squad.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Another thing I'd like a reduction on is the cost of our vehicles:

Whirlwind paying such a hefty points tax to be fast is ridiculous.
A baal pred compared to a AM punisher is hugely overcosted.

Our dreads find it very difficult to get into combat - therefore everyone who takes a dread only goes for podded furiosos with frag.

All LRs in all dexes are overcosted - I don't see this being changed. I do however predict that they may take away the points deduction in taking raiders for Assault marines. Which would be a nerf for no reason as it is not like they are points efficient even with the 35pt saving.

Rhinos do nothing for our assault squads since they are not assault vehicles. Although OS on these makes them viable again.

I agree with basically all of this except for the part about baal preds and raiders. I dont honestly think anyones land raiders are overcosted, as they got a pretty significant boost this edition. And baal preds are pretty perfectly costed.

A bunch of you guys seem to believe current plastic kits will disappear. Why? GW has a penchant for removing characters who don't have a model, and even a few metal models or finecast that they don't want to update. I don't expect to see Dread variants disappear. I don't even really see any characters disappear, even though they're all FC. BA has all their characters. I suspect they'll lose very little in the coming culling. GW has plenty to answer for. But accusing them for things they haven't actually done is foolish.

 th3maninblak wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Another thing I'd like a reduction on is the cost of our vehicles:

Whirlwind paying such a hefty points tax to be fast is ridiculous.
A baal pred compared to a AM punisher is hugely overcosted.

Our dreads find it very difficult to get into combat - therefore everyone who takes a dread only goes for podded furiosos with frag.

All LRs in all dexes are overcosted - I don't see this being changed. I do however predict that they may take away the points deduction in taking raiders for Assault marines. Which would be a nerf for no reason as it is not like they are points efficient even with the 35pt saving.

Rhinos do nothing for our assault squads since they are not assault vehicles. Although OS on these makes them viable again.

I agree with basically all of this except for the part about baal preds and raiders. I dont honestly think anyones land raiders are overcosted, as they got a pretty significant boost this edition. And baal preds are pretty perfectly costed.

Thing is, I always felt baals were appropriatly costed too. However I have proxied punishers, and I own 5 anni barges, both of which make baals look overcosted.
A baal for 145pts gets 6 st5 and 4 tl st6 rending shots all at bs4, a punisher on the other hand gets 29 st5 shots at bs3 for 15pts more. And Av 14. Admittedly the baal is on a fast platform, but the much better armourof the punisher morr than makes up for this.
Its harder to compare with an anni barge, but the anni barge is a skimmer which doesn't mind jinking, scores on average only slightly less hits, has a higher strength weapon, and is a lot better at AA. For 55pts less.
Then there is the wave serpent for the same points cost.
When we compare the baal to anything else in our dex it comes out as arguably the second best choice after the furioso, but compare it to the best anti-personal vehicles of other dexes and it is overcosted in comparsion. As mainly BA players, i think we overlook this because it is still one of our best units.

With the new OS rules on LRs, I can see an argument for them being more worth their points now. However I still believe them to be ~30pts too much due to the lack of punch they offer for their points.

 Anpu42 wrote:

BaalSNAFU wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.

The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.

Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.

I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.

On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.

.


I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...

I think that has come down to your local META and use of them. Look at the Grey Knights, they can pull off all Terminator Armies and win constantly.

Grey Knight Terminators aren't Tactical Terminators though.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Spoiler:

 Anpu42 wrote:

BaalSNAFU wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.

The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.

Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.

I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.

On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.

.


I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...

I think that has come down to your local META and use of them. Look at the Grey Knights, they can pull off all Terminator Armies and win constantly.

Grey Knight Terminators aren't Tactical Terminators though.

True, but they are still mostly T4, W1, 2+/5++ Models and have the same survivability as Tactical Terminators and don't have the 2+/3++ that other Imperials can pull off.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Spoiler:

 Anpu42 wrote:

BaalSNAFU wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.

The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.

Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.

I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.

On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.

.


I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...

I think that has come down to your local META and use of them. Look at the Grey Knights, they can pull off all Terminator Armies and win constantly.

Grey Knight Terminators aren't Tactical Terminators though.

True, but they are still mostly T4, W1, 2+/5++ Models and have the same survivability as Tactical Terminators and don't have the 2+/3++ that other Imperials can pull off.

It's not the similarities that's important, it's the differences. Force Weapons, 33 PPM, better Assault Cannons, Troops (!), Psykers. They're a fair bit less gakky than Tactical Terminators.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Spoiler:

 Anpu42 wrote:

BaalSNAFU wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.

The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.

Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.

I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.

On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.

.


I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...

I think that has come down to your local META and use of them. Look at the Grey Knights, they can pull off all Terminator Armies and win constantly.

Grey Knight Terminators aren't Tactical Terminators though.

True, but they are still mostly T4, W1, 2+/5++ Models and have the same survivability as Tactical Terminators and don't have the 2+/3++ that other Imperials can pull off.

It's not the similarities that's important, it's the differences. Force Weapons, 33 PPM, better Assault Cannons, Troops (!), Psykers. They're a fair bit less gakky than Tactical Terminators.

I was mostly replying to the point of Terminator Survivability not Firepower, witch is the normal complaint.

Getting back on track...
Sanguinary Terminators: If they follow the current Patter what I expect to see.
Wargear: Angelus Bolt Gun, Glaive, Terminator Armor.
Points: 33ppm
Options to take:
>Replace Glaive with Power Fist, Chain Fist, Thunder Hammer (?)
>Replace Angelus Bolt Gun with Combi-Weapon.
>Terminator Special Weapons

The Angelus Bolt-Gun [24", S4, AP4, Volley 2/4]: Boosting the Terminators, but leaving the Sanguinary Guard unchanged.
Glaive
>Sword: [S+1, AP3, Melee, Mastercraft, Two-Handed.]
>Axe: S+2, AP2, Melee, Mastercraft, Two-Handed, Unwieldy]

 Anpu42 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Spoiler:

 Anpu42 wrote:

BaalSNAFU wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.

The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.

Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.

I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.

On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.

.


I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...

I think that has come down to your local META and use of them. Look at the Grey Knights, they can pull off all Terminator Armies and win constantly.

Grey Knight Terminators aren't Tactical Terminators though.

True, but they are still mostly T4, W1, 2+/5++ Models and have the same survivability as Tactical Terminators and don't have the 2+/3++ that other Imperials can pull off.

It's not the similarities that's important, it's the differences. Force Weapons, 33 PPM, better Assault Cannons, Troops (!), Psykers. They're a fair bit less gakky than Tactical Terminators.

I was mostly replying to the point of Terminator Survivability not Firepower, witch is the normal complaint.

33 PPM vs. 40 PPM makes a difference there as well.

Death Company Marines will run on gasoline. And surprisingly, many of them will get good mileage.

Sanguinary Terminators will probably just be glaive Termies, maybe with 5+ FNP.

I think at this point we can all just say we want the codex sometime before the end of the year.

i would happily wait a solid 6-8 weeks for the BA release. I have my newly DE to work on, and my wallet is already screaming.

There will be a new flier (storm talon?), or another opened up from the regular c:sm codex. I would have thought the BA would get the assault flier like SW did, but i don't think they will do two of the same fliers.

BA already have unique dread variations, so that won't change. Maybe one will move to a special character (DC dread or librarian)

No more FOC swaps so Sanguinary guard will remain in elites and I believe the 0-1 DC units will be removed also, unless there is a formation released (supplement?)

I would hope at least one special character gets a re-sculpt into plastic, really any of them (although Seth's model is pretty cool)

I can see the codex specific detachment being similar to the rumored DE one, where you can choose 1-6 fast attack slots, with the new flier sliding in as a FA choice.

Those are my best guesses. Relics will be meh, formation will have some assault/deep strike shenanigans, special characters will be meh (which disappoints me the most) and the codex will be more balanced.

Don't expect top tier, as assault isnt really the name of the game currently, but hopefully something along the lines of SW wouldn't be bad

I wouldn't be too surprised to see Libby dreads move to HQ.

If we get a termie kit, I hope the the rules are a little more interesting than tac termies with access to combis and power weapons...Sure it offers nice tactical flexibility but seems a bit meh. If the models looked the part though that's the main thing.

I reckon we're gonna a big old codex assuming northing gets dropped.

Any one got any ideas/hopes/dreams for what our supplement might be? I play Angels Encarmine, so would love to see that as the supplement, but Flesh Tearers seems more likely.

D

The 7th edition supplements have been based on formations with new warlord traits, so I don't think we will be getting a flesh tearers or Angels encarmine supplement.

Well, we can have Flesh Tearers with just some extra rules, formations and Relics/Traits.

Better assault marines. I really want am to be viable again. They are such a cool idea for a unit.