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What do you expect for the new Blood Angels?

This is not about wish listing, it is all theory and conjecture after reading Codex: Orcs, Codex: Space Wolves and Codex: Grey Knights. I am only listing those who may get some real choices.

“Chapter Tactics”:
ATSKNF
Furious Charge

Lord of War:
Commander Dante: Makes Sanguinary Guard Scoring?
Chapter Master Gabriel Seth: Either a LoW or Data Slate.

HQs:
Most of them I see just getting a points adjustments.
Chaplin: One per Troop or HQ Choice
TechMarine: One per Troop or HQ Choice

Troops:
Tactical Squads, Assault Squads, Scouts all will probably be left where there are with points adjustments.
>Sergeant's getting Access to Glaive Encarmine S-User, AP3, Quasi Rending Two-Handed) and Angelus Bolt Gun (12”S4, AP5, Assault2) [this is based on WGPLs becoming “Sergeants” and gets access to Frost Weapons.]
>One Marine can be upgraded to a Sanguinary Priest Replacing his Bolt Gun with a Blood Chalice (FNP 6+).

Elites:
Sanguinary Guard: Points adjustments. Glaive Encarmine S-User, AP3, Quasi Rending Two-Handed) and Angelus Bolt Gun (12”S4, AP5, Assault2)
Terminators (Both Types): Points Adjustments mostly.
>Sergeant's getting Access to Glaive Encarmine S-User, AP3, Quasi Rending Two-Handed) and Angelus Bolt Gun (12”S4, AP5, Assault2) [this is based on WGPLs becoming “Sergeants” and gets access to Frost Weapons.]
>One Marine can be upgraded to a Sanguinary Priest Replacing his Storm Bolter with a Blood Chalice (FNP 6+).
Sternguard/Vanguard Vets: Rolled into one like Dark Angel Vets, but with lots of options including Bikes and Jump Packs like Wolf Guard.
Furioso Dreadnaught: Price adjustment and a new weapon option?
Furioso Librarian Dreadnaught: Possibly moved to an HQ Slot or a Character.

Fast Attack: Fast Rhino, Fast Razorback, Drop Pod, Land Speeder Storm.
Most are probably going to just adjust point for most of them.
Adding a Flyer, most likely a Stormtalon.
>Sergeant's getting Access to Glaive Encarmine S-User, AP3, Quasi Rending Two-Handed) and Angelus Bolt Gun (12”S4, AP5, Assault2) [this is based on WGPLs becoming “Sergeants” and gets access to Frost Weapons.]
>One Marine can be upgraded to a Sanguinary Priest Replacing his Bolt Gun with a Blood Chalice (FNP 6+).

Heavy Support: All Deep Striking Land Raiders here
Mostly price Adjustments.

Formations:
Probably a big one Requiring 3-4 HQs, a couple of elites and 4-6 max sized Assault Squads.

Detachment: (This is how I think is how they will pull off Death Company)
Death Company Detachment
>Black Rage: All Models gain Fearless and Rage.

Corbulo will most likely be moved to the HQ slot.

Points reductions, relics and warlord traits added.

Clampack sanguinary priest/captain something.

Baal pred - new weapon variant.

Dante - LOW with new model.

Considering what they did to the Space Wolves, I'm expecting to see flying coffins somewhere.

 Lynata wrote:
Considering what they did to the Space Wolves, I'm expecting to see flying coffins somewhere.

If they don't go with the Stormraven I can see that.

I do wonder what the new weapon would be.
>Dark Angels got all sorts of Plasma
>Space Marines got Grav Weapons
>Space Wolves Got Helfrost

Maybe a Melta or Flamer variant.
>Melta...I don't know
>Flamer...A Torrent Version for the Baal and Dreads?

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Considering what they did to the Space Wolves, I'm expecting to see flying coffins somewhere.

If they don't go with the Stormraven I can see that.

I do wonder what the new weapon would be.
>Dark Angels got all sorts of Plasma
>Space Marines got Grav Weapons
>Space Wolves Got Helfrost

Maybe a Melta or Flamer variant.
>Melta...I don't know
>Flamer...A Torrent Version for the Baal and Dreads?

I was figuring radiation weapons maybe. Baal is an irradiated wasteland, plus rad weapons exist in the 30k books. So it would be minimal work and have a fluff justification to some extent.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with your first post though, with the exception that I can see DC either being slot-less, or an elite choice. Seth will likely be a dataslate.

-You really think the chapter tactics will just be ATSKNF and Furious Charge? That would suck. I think our chapter tactics will either having something to do with boosting Initiative on the charge, or something to help us get into assault successfully.

-I think Mephiston will actually be our LOW, but I can easily see the Flesh Tearers being a supplement

-Why would Blood Chalice only grant fnp 6+ and not just standard fnp?

-Death Company will most certainly still be their own unit, and I expect we will see a formation with a Death Company theme.

-I'd like the see Glaives reworked. Right now the master-crafted rule doesn't really make up for the fact that they remove a possible extra attack and yet give no strength or AP bonus.

-I think Sanguinary Priests will be changed into an optional upgrade for squads, pushing Corbulo into an HQ slot.

-I expect we will see our own new flyer. Either a BA specific variant of the Stormtalon, or something completely new.

One of my other though for DC is it would be an Unit upgrade.

Though I could also see them going to a random thing like the 3rd ed? book where some of your models from each unit become one. Though I think that is out of "Character" for the current direction they have been going.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orblivion wrote:
-Why would Blood Chalice only grant fnp 6+ and not just standard fnp?

If it becomes common place. Also going with what was done with the Wolf Priest, they get FNP 6+ it seems to be the direction they are going.
I think for Imperials only Medics and Apothecaries that are part of a HQ Unit will get 5+.

Some pretty reasonable guesses here. I could see a lot of this happening. I'm thinking that we may get some chapter tactics to help reinforce the idea of the Blood Angels being masters of the aerial attack. Like maybe non-scattering skies of blood or something like that.

-I expect we will see our own new flyer. Either a BA specific variant of the Stormtalon, or something completely new.

Yes, and it will be called the "Bloodtalon" .....

 Anpu42 wrote:
What do you expect for the new Blood Angels?

What I want is for them to do some price reductions and not really mess with it.
What I expect is that they'll screw up the variable army dynamic it had going.

Specifics:
Mephy is the most well-known BA big bad mofo model, so he gets the LOW nerf bat, continuing his trend of being nerfed a little every time he gets a change. (Not that being a LOW is a direct nerf, but being worth an extra VP to your enemy is annoying, especially in say, the relic or emperor's will.)

I'm hesitant to say that Sanguinor will be made a LOW, because that would be the first time to hit two characters with it in one book. Also the best buddy ability vanishes.

Corbulo is about to get bent over. There's no way he's getting to keep his personal 2+ fnp.

They still won't give Dante EW. And he won't foc-change sanguinary guard anymore. The no-scatter thing will be his trait, and he'll lose the death mask debuff. His points will go down a paltry amount, but not enough to stop him being even more overcosted.

Termies and sanguinary guard will have to live with their overcostedness, as the GW rules men drastically over-value 2+ armor on a t4 1 wound body.

Land raiders will be moved to HS, not a dedicated transport. Deep strike removed.

They should do something to help BA chapter-wide about surviving to assault, like shrouded after jump pack deep strikes, assaults from deep strikes, or less random charge range, but they won't.

This is kinda wish listing, but I could see a death company supplement that has rules for captains, terminators, and other units made into DC as a separate detachment.

Gabriel Seth vanishes, generic chapter master appears, Seth's sword is a relic, Tycho disappears from all but fluff. Lemartes vanishes.

Jump troop formation that has to have all jumpers or pods and can deep strike turn 1. Actually sort of good.

Alternate force org of 2 hq, 6 elite, 4 troop, 3 FA, 3 HS. The battle forged bonus for running it is that elites are objective secured. (Kinda lame.)

Warlord traits: no scatter deep strike, multiple hammer of wrath hits, fear, auto red thirst for anyone in a 12" bubble, rage and fnp 5+ together, and hatred for self and unit.

Psychic: Primaris blood lance, less random distance beam type, and in no certain order: wings, which will let the caster move an extra 6 or so in the psychic phase, followed by several of the other powers with no real change except psychic phase compatability.

Relics: Seth's sword, a spear that is essentially a super power lance for the price of several, tycho's gun, and a relic jump pack that does silly junk.

Overall I will be displeased as they try to shove me into the "unbound and lords of war are awesome" mentality that they're trying to push. I will like the death company supp though, and will most likely play through the edition just saying "yeah my successor chapter paints their DC red."

I do expect a Terminator Points decrease, look at both the Terminator Wolf Guard and Grey Terminators.
Both are 33 points without upgrades. So I see them getting cheaper by 2-5 points.
Corbulo will probably become an Elite that will take up no slot if X unit is chosen. The Same for Lemartes, but with Death Company.
I think you are right on with the Warlord Traits.
Tycho and/or Astoroth might also unlock Death Company

I'm not expecting BA to get any new kits. Their flier will still be the stormraven and thunderspud.

Just like the last codex, they will get access to most everything in the basic SM army. So Centurions, stalkers, hunters, grav weapons are all in. However, expect a culling on what vehicles count as dedicated transports. Your no longer going to get to field Landraiders where ever you want.

I do expect you to loose one type of dreadnaught, the Blendernaught is going away, or at least going to be changed so it no longer can destroy whole squads.

Interesting thoughts, this is what I see as likely:

Lemartes, Dante and Seth: not going anywhere, GW makes their models still so they won't just disappear. I think a Flesh Tearer supplement is very possible, but I think the rules for Seth will remain (as they did for Lysander).

Flyer: the BA got the Stormraven early, and maybe they get access to the Stormtalon, but I doubt a new, special flyer. The Space Wolves needed a flyer and got one, BA have had one from the start.

LoW: Dante isn't particularly special, so I really doubt he will be a LoW. Mephiston, however, could get an AP2 sword and go to LoW, or maybe just smash attacks. Dante will probably lose the "SG are troops" as Draigo did with Paladins, sadly.

Dreads: they already have a specific set, but maybe (just maybe) Moriar the Chosen could return as a named DC Dread. I can dream....

FNP will stay the same, at 5+, no reason to change it.

I think the possibility of SPs for each squad would be awesome, but I really doubt it; I expect they'll stay as an elites slot and Corbulo will be nerfed but still a named SP upgrade.

Relics: hmm looking forward to something cool, but not sure

Special weapons: I think the radiation weapons are a possibility, but they'd have to release a new boxed set with them

Warlord traits: probably counter attack, stealth when arriving from DS, a furious charge for him/unit

Death Company: Maybe a points adjustment for weapons/jump packs, I hope

Sanguinor: Hopefully another wound for the cost, 3W is not enough; or he'll get a lower points cost

Formation: I think the all jump troops is probably accurate, something reminiscent of the 5th Ed DoA lists

Land Raiders: Deep strike is going away, but I could see them stay as dedicated transports

Psychic: I'd love for them to keep (get back?) the BA specific traits, especially if the Libby Dread got wings by default.. I like a flying, angry, psychic dreadnought

I'm excited to see the codex, BA are my first/biggest army and they didn't see a lot of table time in 6th sadly

I would like to see them add grav cannon with amp as weapon option for baal predator.


Would also like the BA only FOC be 3 HQ 6 troop 4 elite 4 FA LR's as dedicated for troops.

 Jayden63 wrote:
I'm not expecting BA to get any new kits. Their flier will still be the stormraven and thunderspud.

Just like the last codex, they will get access to most everything in the basic SM army. So Centurions, stalkers, hunters, grav weapons are all in. However, expect a culling on what vehicles count as dedicated transports. Your no longer going to get to field Landraiders where ever you want.

I do expect you to loose one type of dreadnaught, the Blendernaught is going away, or at least going to be changed so it no longer can destroy whole squads.

Good possibility, though if you look at the 6th on Codex's they seem to be making each Non-Ultra-Marine Codex with different Wargear options.
>Dark Angels: Got the Two Fliers and two New Land Speeder and some Plasma Variants
>Space Wolves: We got a pair of New Weapons, Two New Fliers and some Unique Dreadnaughts.
>Space Marines: Two Fliers, Two types of Centurions and a pair of AAA Platforms.

By that we can expect 2 New Fliers, 2 New Weapons and something else the give Blood Angels an Unique feel adding to their strengths
>Something on a Fast Rhino Chassis, maybe some Baal Variants, maybe similar to Hellhounds.
>Two Flyers of some sort.
>A new Weapon System
All with Blood in them

I feel like the Sanguinor will be in our LoW slot, and im okay with that. He's the most expensive guy in the dex. He also kind of sucks for his points.

New flier or two

Im hoping to see DC become an upgrade for a squad for +ppm

New sculpts for Dante/Mephiston. The "Cometh at me, brother" pose is a little old

Possibly a new infantry unit. Blood this and that.

I feel like the blender is out. Killing 7-8 models per turn in assault is too good to leave in the dex. Maybe fragso toned down.

Librarian dreads are here to stay. Theyll get cheaper i feel.

New rhino variant that mounts some sort of marine-based launching system. Someone over at GW found angry marines and thought it was brilliant.

See, I disagree on the fliers. The DA came out before the SM codex. The Stormraven only has iconography for BA and GK. Also at the time flyers were the new thing, so it made sense that DA and even the Tau would get fliers. However, BA dont have the same void to fill. The StormRaven is already set to go with BA iconography and would seem to be tailor made to fit their chapter. I just can't see them getting a new flier.

As for the new weapons, Grav weapons would be new weapons for BA. I think they didn't want to give SW both Grav and Helfrost, so I suspect thats why SW didn't get Centurions either. However, I see nothing stopping them from porting them into the BA codex.

I agree in that I would like to see them not get all those things. BA as represented on the table top look hardly divergent at all. So yeah, in my ideal world they would loose Vanguards, Sternguard, and bikers. Those loses are made up for by the inclusion of jump packs for everybody mentality and the added units of Sanguinary Guard and Death Company. I wouldn't mind if they got Centurions, but then lost devistators. One or the other, but not both. Divergent remember.

I think what "New Units" we get will depend on the theme of the new weapon.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jayden63 wrote:
See, I disagree on the fliers. The DA came out before the SM codex. The Stormraven only has iconography for BA and GK. Also at the time flyers were the new thing, so it made sense that DA and even the Tau would get fliers. However, BA dont have the same void to fill. The StormRaven is already set to go with BA iconography and would seem to be tailor made to fit their chapter. I just can't see them getting a new flier.

As for the new weapons, Grav weapons would be new weapons for BA. I think they didn't want to give SW both Grav and Helfrost, so I suspect thats why SW didn't get Centurions either. However, I see nothing stopping them from porting them into the BA codex.

I agree in that I would like to see them not get all those things. BA as represented on the table top look hardly divergent at all. So yeah, in my ideal world they would loose Vanguards, Sternguard, and bikers. Those loses are made up for by the inclusion of jump packs for everybody mentality and the added units of Sanguinary Guard and Death Company. I wouldn't mind if they got Centurions, but then lost devistators. One or the other, but not both. Divergent remember.

If we get Grav-Weapons, yes I think we will get Centurions. If we don't get Grave Weapons and get a "New Weapon" we probably wont as it would require new scupls.
An all Jump Pack army would be neat.

[This is a Wish-Listing part, but would be cool]
>Maybe Devs getting a replaced with Jet Pack Heavy Weapons Squad
>Terminator Heavy Weapons taking a page from the Dark Angels and getting a Multi-Melta Option.

 Jayden63 wrote:
See, I disagree on the fliers. The DA came out before the SM codex. The Stormraven only has iconography for BA and GK. Also at the time flyers were the new thing, so it made sense that DA and even the Tau would get fliers. However, BA dont have the same void to fill. The StormRaven is already set to go with BA iconography and would seem to be tailor made to fit their chapter. I just can't see them getting a new flier.

As for the new weapons, Grav weapons would be new weapons for BA. I think they didn't want to give SW both Grav and Helfrost, so I suspect thats why SW didn't get Centurions either. However, I see nothing stopping them from porting them into the BA codex.

I agree in that I would like to see them not get all those things. BA as represented on the table top look hardly divergent at all. So yeah, in my ideal world they would loose Vanguards, Sternguard, and bikers. Those loses are made up for by the inclusion of jump packs for everybody mentality and the added units of Sanguinary Guard and Death Company. I wouldn't mind if they got Centurions, but then lost devistators. One or the other, but not both. Divergent remember.

I'd like to see them lose Sternguard and have a unique version of Vanguard. The old Index Astartes for us indicated that the entire 1st company was made up of Vanguard, not a single Sternguard among them. As for flyers, I understand what you are saying but flight, so I just can't see GW not giving them some new form of flyer.

Hopefully something ridiculously awful like a flying chalice, or a coffin shaped landspeeder.

Oh, and blood cannons.

What I expect:
-Reduction in points all over the Codex, from Tactical Marines to weapon-upgrades and Jump Packs.
-Changes in Red Thirst, to help us in CC.
-Buffing S-Guard, SC's and perhaps Assault TDA

Perhaps:
-A new model.
-A Blood Angel 'special weapon'.
-Sanguinor as LoW

Surely not:
-Removal of SC's.
-99% of all doomscenario's that people keep making up because they hate GW.

I think the only things we can say with any certainty are:
-Mass point reductions
-Effectiveness nerfs for a lot of things (I'm imagining Mephiston, Sanguinor, Corbulo and Sanguinary Priests in general, Blood Talons)

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I think the only things we can say with any certainty are:
-Mass point reductions
-Effectiveness nerfs for a lot of things (I'm imagining Mephiston, Sanguinor, Corbulo and Sanguinary Priests in general, Blood Talons)

That has to be the first time someone uses the word 'effective' in relation the Codex: Blood Angels
And I would have never believed someone uses that word to describe Sanguinor..

Comparing Mephiston/Sanguinor to Draigo or Dreadknights tells me one thing: They will be buffed. Hard.
Paladin-Apothecaries compared to Sanguinary Priests: Priests are going to stay the same.
One thing I could see them changing is turning Priests (and Corbulo) into Characters that have to be assigned to a unit.
This makes sure that they cannot leave the unit ánd it lowers the LOS! to a 4+, which is basically the only nerf Corbulo needs.

And Blood Talons nerfed? I thought that too..
That was then the Space Wolves were released and I got a look at Murder MacMurderson.
The nerf from S10, AP2 to S6, AP3 is enough to justify the blenders.

Kangodo wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I think the only things we can say with any certainty are:
-Mass point reductions
-Effectiveness nerfs for a lot of things (I'm imagining Mephiston, Sanguinor, Corbulo and Sanguinary Priests in general, Blood Talons)

That has to be the first time someone uses the word 'effective' in relation the Codex: Blood Angels
And I would have never believed someone uses that word to describe Sanguinor..

Comparing Mephiston/Sanguinor to Draigo or Dreadknights tells me one thing: They will be buffed. Hard.
Paladin-Apothecaries compared to Sanguinary Priests: Priests are going to stay the same.
One thing I could see them changing is turning Priests (and Corbulo) into Characters that have to be assigned to a unit.
This makes sure that they cannot leave the unit ánd it lowers the LOS! to a 4+, which is basically the only nerf Corbulo needs.

And Blood Talons nerfed? I thought that too..
That was then the Space Wolves were released and I got a look at Murder MacMurderson.
The nerf from S10, AP2 to S6, AP3 is enough to justify the blenders.

There's a difference between them being "effective" and having "effectiveness". Sanguinor is ridiculously overpriced and easy to kill, but he's very strong and buffs the rest of the army around him. When I say that he'll lose effectiveness, I mean that I'm certain that they'll likely make him more viable to take, but be far weaker in the process. Similarly with Mephiston - he'll probably be significantly nerfed one way or another. For every Dreadknight, there's a KFF Mekboy to compare them to.

Don't get me wrong though - I'm sure that BA will be mid-tier at worst, and likely close to SW and SM imho. That said, they're not going to get there without losing some flavour and without seeing some big changes that'll inevitably be the subject of numerous complaint threads.

I don't think will be a lot of "NERFing". If you take a look at all of the Codex's since the Space Marine one, they are all pretty balanced with each other.
[Well Nids have some issues, but have ways to overcome them.]
Nothing is truly Overpowered without having to team up with something else.
Even the so called bad stuff is only "Bad" because of their price.
Example: Space Wolves, not a single unit is "Worthless" some are just pricy.

I honesty figured Mephiston would become a Lord of War. But I suppose Dante would fit just fine as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Anpu42 wrote:

[Well Nids have some issues, but have ways to overcome them.]
.

Ehh, I feel internally their codex is pretty bad. They're still strong, there's just a lot of auto-include options, which is never good.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I honesty figured Mephiston would become a Lord of War. But I suppose Dante would fit just fine as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Anpu42 wrote:

[Well Nids have some issues, but have ways to overcome them.]
.

Ehh, I feel internally their codex is pretty bad. They're still strong, there's just a lot of auto-include options, which is never good.

I just hate the fact that I have to keep including the "Nid Disclaimer" when talking about recent Codex Balance or we end up with three page of about how bad they are.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
There's a difference between them being "effective" and having "effectiveness". Sanguinor is ridiculously overpriced and easy to kill, but he's very strong and buffs the rest of the army around him. When I say that he'll lose effectiveness, I mean that I'm certain that they'll likely make him more viable to take, but be far weaker in the process. Similarly with Mephiston - he'll probably be significantly nerfed one way or another. For every Dreadknight, there's a KFF Mekboy to compare them to.

Don't get me wrong though - I'm sure that BA will be mid-tier at worst, and likely close to SW and SM imho. That said, they're not going to get there without losing some flavour and without seeing some big changes that'll inevitably be the subject of numerous complaint threads.

Not so sure about that.
5 attacks at S4, AP3 with MC on I6 doesn't really seem to do the trick.
The +1A is nice, but a Chapter Banner is 30 points for 12" bubble, so this is worth maybe 15 points?
I always prefer to do some calculations with 'standard units'.
A Chapter Master with Sv2+, Storm Shield, Power Sword (Digital Weapons), Jump Pack, Shield Eternal and "nerfed Chapter Banner" comes down to 255 points.
So for 20 more points you:
+Buff a random Sgt.
+Turn MC into a complete reroll against one HQ.
+1 Strength
+1 Attack
-1 Wound
-Independent Character
-Orbital Bombardment

I honestly think that, with his current rules, he's around 40 points too expensive.
Another issue is that his aura, the random buffing and the rerolls are really ineffective and stuff you don't want most of the time.
The changes I would like to see are:
-250 points
-Aura for +1A and Fearless
-Wounds: 4
-A better weapon, perhaps make it a lance with AP2/3

And yeah, we will always have complaints.
I am personally very excited about both the SW and GK-codex, they really seem to put the focus on the Faction.
So that means they've had two Codices to 'test' the new edition and that will probably result into an even better Codex for us Blood Angels.

Id be a little careful in adding too much into guys. Now I haven't read the new GK codex, but there was a lot of streamlining in the Ork and SW codex. Our special characters lost a lot of their "extras" I wouldn't be surprised to see Mephiston get the Njal treatment. Loose all the little extra stuff that made him "more" than just another higher level rune priest, but a massive points drop as well.

Also dont forget all of the culling of special "flavorful" wargear that both SW and Orks went through, I'd expect BA to recieve a lot of the same treatment. I can't say for sure what items will get culled, but I wouldn't consider any of the unique items safe. Just going off what I have seen before.

I expect to be disappointed. Hopefully not so much that I can't play my army the way I like without sticking to the old codex.

when is said BA dex supposed to drop?