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Arch-Heratic is useful in that it is basically Zealot for 15 points (since of the other 10 goes towards your mandatory covenant). The enforcer bonus isn't good but zealot is super good.

After playing around with the list for a bit I have made a few discoveries and decisions.

1) I really need more sentinels. The price for lascannon and autocannon sentinels is incredibly cheap for the durability and firepower they bring. Even after being upgraded to BS3 they are still a very good value. I need to buy more...which will look like empire strike back.
2) Most of the HS slot is fantastic. The top contenders in my estimation are the heavy artillery carriages, thudd guns, and wyverns. After that the rapiers and griffon are both excellent. The rest of the options are good but much more specific in use and setup.
3) Chaos Sigil is a great option if you want a unit to stick around. I am hesitant to put it on an unupgraded unit of 10 but anything more costly really should get one. Unless of course you have Ld buffs you are already taking.
4) vox net is very useful to help your artillery to not run away. The command squad is mostly useless anyways so you can put them on a quad gun in a bunker or behind an ADL and let them buff the Ld of the artillery. Very useful.
5) If I don't take an ally to handle forward scoring for me I will end up taking 3-4 units of spawn and thus my demagogue is already chosen. Nothing else in the list can compare to a few units of spawn for usefulness in both scoring and melee. Everything else is just too slow.
6) A unit or two of Chosen/CSM in dreadclaws can make for some excellent forward scoring to add to a renegades list. So can the addition of A) Nurglings and a GUO, B) 4 Tz heralds, pink horror unit or two, and a unit of ~5 screamers, or C) 2 Khorne jugger heralds (one with grimoire), hounds, and nurglings (or bloodletters to be themed). I have not been happy with forward scoring unless I take one of these allies.
7) large infantry blobbs are fun but mostly not very useful for winning games. We just don't have the easy access to buffs we can hide in the infantry units that the imperials do. Once you start fielding 200+ models the board becomes so crowded the initial barrage kills 50+ of your models. These lists are fun but very hard to actually win against many of the more popular lists. It is however super fun to throw 200+ bodies at the opponent, sometimes with the units coming back.
8) Fortifications are very useful. The tank traps have started becoming one of my favorites to block access to objectives for knights and waveserpents.

I have seen a couple sentinel heavy lists and found them wanting. They are still sentinels and go down.

If the arch-dema is a mutant and he leaves his unit to join another, what happens to the curse of mutation?

 techsoldaten wrote:
I have seen a couple sentinel heavy lists and found them wanting. They are still sentinels and go down.

They cost 20 points a piece, 120 for a full team.
Its cheaper than a tactical squad. and as much as they "go down" they don't go does quite as easy as basic infantry.

Ok, I get why Arch-Heretic Revolutionary is kind of a waste.

Being a Nurgle army, I'm having a good look at Heretic Magus. Toughness 4, 3+ armor and FNP 6+ sounds like a Nurgle army leader. Also it gets me the FNP 6+ for half the price of a Nurgle Covenant in some units.

When running Renegades and CSM together, is there any use in putting CSM units in the Valkyrie?

Pros: More transport capacity than the Dreadclaw, doesn't compete with great FA choices for units that can't take dedicated claws, doesn't need to hover for a turn when coming in from reserves.

Cons:
More expensive

GrafWattenburg wrote:
When running Renegades and CSM together, is there any use in putting CSM units in the Valkyrie?

Pros: More transport capacity than the Dreadclaw, doesn't compete with great FA choices for units that can't take dedicated claws, doesn't need to hover for a turn when coming in from reserves.

Cons:
More expensive

Surely the real advantage here is with the Arvus?

3 in one FA slot, delivers a unit of flying CSM and then gets killed, and all for a pretty cheap price tag.

Hi,
after playing some games with my recently painted renegades, I absolutely agree - mass infantry is a good way to win games (at least in my local Meta). Most players don't have builds to handle so many cheap bodies. I usually use a Baneblade making my units zealot

Double posted the same picture

 ArbitorIan wrote:

GrafWattenburg wrote:
When running Renegades and CSM together, is there any use in putting CSM units in the Valkyrie?

Pros: More transport capacity than the Dreadclaw, doesn't compete with great FA choices for units that can't take dedicated claws, doesn't need to hover for a turn when coming in from reserves.

Cons:
More expensive

Surely the real advantage here is with the Arvus?

3 in one FA slot, delivers a unit of flying CSM and then gets killed, and all for a pretty cheap price tag.

I have looked at it! It's the closest we get point-wise to a regular drop pod, with the added bonus of being able to fly around. Downside is that it can't really hurt stuff and has really bad armour. It's also a more expenive model in terms of money. But the idea of some mean-looking Chaos Marines jumping out of the goofy looking Arvus is definitely appealing

gba01 wrote:
Hi,
after playing some games with my recently painted renegades, I absolutely agree - mass infantry is a good way to win games (at least in my local Meta). Most players don't have builds to handle so many cheap bodies. I usually use a Baneblade making my units zealot

Lovely army - are those 30-man units? If so, how are you fielding it? As a platoon per blob or as a squad per blob (I thought infantry only went up to 20?)

Your warlord has to take the devotion "Master of the Horde", so you can take 30 man squads and when a platoon is eliminated on a Roll of 5+ the Unit comes back in play.

What sort of weapon loadouts are you taking, looks like flamers and grenade launchers are your only weapons aside from the baneblade and earthshakers?

,Im going to give the mutant horde a try. 50 man units appeal, piling on the buffs. Enforcer and champion with power axe/ melta , chaos lord helping, chaos covenant, two with the demagogue.. baneblade rolling behind for fearless and hatred. Rage as well.. all makes sense to me. Best use of allies is what im struggling with

It's a shame that this FW book makes the CSM codex the codex that it should be.


I just love having a massive swarm of zombies without having Typhus, they are brilliant for objective holding and are very cheap. Plus the heavy support is brilliant and goes well with obliterators.

My actual list:
+ HQ +

Renegade Command Squad [4x Disciple w/ Shotgun, Flak Armour]
····Arch Demagogue [Covenant of Tzeentch, Flak Armour, Laspistol, Master of the Horde, Melta Bombs, Power Fist, Warlord]

+ Troops +

Renegade Infantry Platoon
····Platoon Command Squad [Krak Grenades for Squad, Militia Training, 23x Renegade w/ Lasgun]
········Demagogue [Laspistol, Melta Bombs]
········Renegade w/ Chaos Sigil [Laspistol]
········5x Renegade w/ Grenade Launcher [5x Laspistol]
····Renegade Infantry Squad [Krak Grenades for Squad, Militia Training, 22x Renegade w/ Autogun]
········3x Autocannon Team [3x Laspistol]
········Renegade Champion [Covenant of Tzeentch, Laspistol, Melta Bombs]
········Renegade w/ Chaos Sigil [Laspistol]
····Renegade Infantry Squad [Krak Grenades for Squad, Militia Training, 22x Renegade w/ Autogun]
········3x Autocannon Team [3x Laspistol]
········Renegade Champion [Covenant of Tzeentch, Laspistol, Melta Bombs]
········Renegade w/ Chaos Sigil [Laspistol]

Renegade Infantry Platoon
····Platoon Command Squad [Krak Grenades for Squad, Militia Training, 28x Renegade w/ Laspistol]
········Demagogue [Covenant of Khorne, Laspistol, Melta Bombs]
········Renegade w/ Chaos Sigil [Laspistol]
····Renegade Infantry Squad [Krak Grenades for Squad, Militia Training, 22x Renegade w/ Autogun]
········Renegade Champion [Laspistol, Melta Bombs]
········Renegade w/ Chaos Sigil [Laspistol]
····Renegade Infantry Squad [Krak Grenades for Squad, Militia Training, 22x Renegade w/ Autogun]
········Renegade Champion [Laspistol, Melta Bombs]
········Renegade w/ Chaos Sigil [Laspistol]


Renegade Chaos Spawn

Renegade Chaos Spawn

Renegade Chaos Spawn


+ Fast Attack +

Renegade Sentinel Squadron
····Renegade Sentinel [Heavy Flamer]
····Renegade Sentinel [Heavy Flamer]
····Renegade Sentinel [Heavy Flamer]

Renegade Sentinel Squadron
····Renegade Sentinel [Heavy Flamer]
····Renegade Sentinel [Heavy Flamer]
····Renegade Sentinel [Heavy Flamer]

+ Heavy Support +

Renegade Heavy Ordnance Battery
····Artillery Carriage [4x Crew, Earthshaker Cannon]

Renegade Heavy Ordnance Battery
····Artillery Carriage [4x Crew, Earthshaker Cannon]

+ Lords of War +

Renegade Baneblade Super-heavy Tank [2x Lascannon & 2x Twin-linked Heavy Bolter, Militia Training]

I did just double take the arch heretic, I'd be taking a covenant anyway, so that's fine and 15 pts for Zealot is pretty nifty, and is backup for if the baneblade explodes.

Still probably gonig to go with the heretek Magus, because I;ve had the model built since forever, and a T4 3+ save is soemthing I like in a warlord


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Loving the Renegade Baneblade, just finishing off mine.

Played a game against Tyranids today, and must say that Mutant Rabble buffed up with a Covenant of Khorne Champ and an Enforcer with Combat Drugs as well as a Arch-Heretic Demagogue for Zealot is absolutely brutal.

Through sheer weight of numbers they managed to bring down a Hive Tyrant (took some rounds as the initial first round buffs were wasted on Gargoyles - it was that new formation) and then a Mawloc.

Thudd Guns are awesome too, being able to fire all over the place and removing hordes.

Plague Zombies are also great for being a tarpit and standing on objectives. Whatever your opponent throws at them is almost guaranteed to cost more points, and once in a while you can even grind down elite units.

I won in the end, at turn 5 it was pretty close, I was leading on Maelstrom, but he had some rippers on his Emperor's Will objective and a Mawloc burrowed up on mine, clearing off the Disciples I had left there and contesting it (I also had some thudd guns within 3"), but luckily the game went on to turn 7 so I was able to clear out most of his models, leaving him with only a Tyrannofex on the board.

My best units were thudd guns (killing a lot of gargoyles first turn, forcing him to waste movement on regaining coherency instead of moving his flyrant up the board, removing ripper troops (yay for double wounds on swarms) and just being annoying), my CSM Fire Raptor (taking vector strikes like a boss and shredding through 3+ armour), mutant rabble (and their buffers) and zombies.

Very happy to hear that.