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I'm thinking about some renegades as allies to my csm, I noticed that rogue psyker covens and enforcer cadres -- HQ choices -- state they can't be warlords, but it doesn't say that they are non-compulsory. So it seems they still fill the HQ requirement for an allied detachment or CAD? That'd be nice since the Arch-Demagogue's Master of Renegades rule is limited to only those as a Primary Detachment Warlord.

It will appear so, yes.
Not having the book right here, so can't check it, but I don't remember anything saying you HAVE to have a command squad.

Under the assumption you still allow thevarks ICs too, you get Arkos, Necrosis and Zuphor too. though FW removed their rules, so that's iffy at best.

Demagogue command squads are 1+ (as opposed to 0-1 or whatever), meaning you NEED to have a demagogue. He is your compulsory HQ. Which makes sense. He's da boss. Your heretic rabble isnt going to follow a bunch of guttertrash witches who can barely string two words together theyre so crazy.

Ah thanks McGibs, I didn't see that 1+ up in the corner

ugh, I want this book! is there any chance of a "Normal" edition being released?

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
ugh, I want this book! is there any chance of a "Normal" edition being released?

Its not about "if" but "when"

Normal version is up on FW site, 45 GBP.

Yeah that limited edition was definitely worth it then for that little difference.

Building a unit of mutant rabble, can't decide if power weapons are worth it on the champion or not, keeping in mind the unit might also have an enforcer, an arch-demagogue and a chaos lord so challenges shouldn't be a problem. This whole 'horde of weaklings' approach to melee is so alien, maybe someone who's experienced with guard style combat blobs can offer advice, I was leaning towards power axes on the lot of them, maybe fist claw on the lord.

"Horde of weakling" approach says that you will wound someone even if he has a 2+ save and you wound on 6's, if you got 36 hits.

So in mutants case, you wound your common T4 target on a 5, and he fails save on a 1-2, after hitting on 5s (wont always be that bad)
So if you throw 27 attacks, you get 9 hits, who deal 3 wounds, and one goes through.
So when say 30 of your pistol/CCW mutants are attacking, you are looking at 90 such dice.
When an enforcer with a drug is pushing them, its 120 attacks.
With a covenant of khorne champion, these attacks are no longer meaningless, than you may get some nice boon from the mutation.


The rule of numbers is simple-when you got alot of dudes, every tiny buff becomes massive. them 20 points you invested to turn your mutant to a khorne champion and 35 points in the drug enforcer turned a simple "I got alot of dice" play, to "I got alot more, and more meaningful dice" play.

Oh yeah don't get me wrong I know that a whole lot of poor attacks can soon add up, just look at all the comics referencing lasguns. I was only really asking with regard to whether power weapons were worth the outlay or not on weak platforms like unarmoured guardsmen equivalents.

I figure if I give the mutant champion a covenant of slaanesh, the arch-demagogue a covenant of khorne and the chaos lord mark of nurgle with blight grenades and the enforcer combat drugs that means everyone has rage, fleet, defensive grenades and rerolls on round 1. Still leaves room for maulerfiends, blood slaughterers and other things moving up the field too.

Think I've answered my own question on the power weapons, when there's that many buffs flying around even if I lose one to a challenge the others are all going to be swinging away unimpeded.

Can the entire renegade command squad join another unit or does the arch demagogue have to detach from the command squad to do so?

In other words does the independent character rule apply to the entire squad or just the arch demagogue.

Only the Arch demagogue has the IC rule. Kinda weird for the disciple he leaves behind since they can only have 1 special and/or 1 heavy and are capped at 14 dudes. Not really enough to have any purpose other than hidden scoring or potshots with a single heavy.

So meaning my Arch Demagogue can just leave his disciples behind and join any other squad?

Can he or she do that before the start of the game?

It works exactly like any other IC

Hm, I was looking for a way to add in good fire support to my new Daemons, this might just be the ticket. Battle Brother'd Leman Russ with 2-3 Flying Daemon Princes seems pretty strong on the table.

 CrownAxe wrote:
It works exactly like any other IC

No other IC i have used has ever started already as part of a squad so no I dont know how you can say that.

 Opera wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
It works exactly like any other IC

No other IC i have used has ever started already as part of a squad so no I dont know how you can say that.

What makes you think the Arch-demagogue does start as part of a squad?

 McGibs wrote:

You thought DKOK had artillery. You aint seen nothin.

The Siege list can still put out more templates because their Thudds and Heavy Mortars are in elites, sure they're more expensive, but you don't have to make a choice if you have the points.

Yea, but renegades pull them cheaper, and additional FOCs are not exactly expensive.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Opera wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
It works exactly like any other IC

No other IC i have used has ever started already as part of a squad so no I dont know how you can say that.

What makes you think the Arch-demagogue does start as part of a squad?

The HQ choice is Renegade Command Squad and consists of 1 Arch-Demagogue and 4 Disciples. The Arch-Demagogue has the Independent Character special rule.

Requizen wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Opera wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
It works exactly like any other IC

No other IC i have used has ever started already as part of a squad so no I dont know how you can say that.

What makes you think the Arch-demagogue does start as part of a squad?

The HQ choice is Renegade Command Squad and consists of 1 Arch-Demagogue and 4 Disciples. The Arch-Demagogue has the Independent Character special rule.

And both are, as far as I can tell, one unit - so are deployed together.

Here's a question: can a Renegade army ally with a second one, or otherwise be joined as part of multiple CADs?

I am interested in knowing whether or not it's possible to field a force that includes 2 demagogues with different devotions (without starting an argument over language).

Ally? no.

Multiple CAD? nothing ever prevents that, but you will not get an unlocking arch-demagogues in a CAD that does not have your warlord, they unlocks only happen to a warlord one.

So now that its been out a while anyone found anything fun?

After an apoc game on sunday where there were two guard players on the other side I'm back on writing a list as they were basically made of artillery.

The renegade strike battery where we find the wyvern for 10 points cheaper also gives the option of combining in griffons. Would it be worth throwing two of these in with a squad of three wyverns, both as cheap hulls for the squad and for when there's nothing for the wyverns to shoot at for a chance at glancing transports down faster. The fact that they're a whopping 40 points cheaper than the loyalist version makes me think there must surely be some purpose for them.

Some of the artillery pieces of the heretics are so cheap is feels almost criminal.

Say what you want about griffon preformace, at THAT cost? its bound to at least threaten its points back.

The real MVPs though are probably the ordnance battery.
Just spamming these super cheap pie plate krak missiles. who cares about aim when you can shoot THAT many?


Basically, every single template or blast unit it the list is fantastic.
And when you pile them up on top of each other is creates a great feel of "everything is going to hell" with the explosions hitting everywhere.

Also a fan of the rapiers, a squadron of three gives you ordnance AP1 twin linked lascannons with T7 and a 3+ save for just over 25 points cheaper than a heavy weapons squad with three normal lascannons.

I just wasn't sure about combining the griffons with wyverns but I'm packing out heavy support as it is, could always try two CAD's and take some of the cheaper troops choices to squeeze in more goodness.

Does anyone know of a way to get use out of the psykers?

rama1229 wrote:
Does anyone know of a way to get use out of the psykers?

WCs to deny the witch with. That it because they don't have any good powers and can't join units.

I just got this book and I'm so happy with it that it more than makes up for my dissatisfaction with the current CSM dex.
I'm planning on primarily using it in combination with my Death Guard CSMs. My concept is a Nurgle devoted renegades army calling in Plague Marines in Dreadclaws for support. I'll probably take the Arch-Heretic Revolutionary for access to more Enforcers, but reviews of this list say it's a bad option. Can anyone explain why? The infantry in the list isn't going to storm and take anything, really. It's all tar pit type stuff. Wouldn't the inclusion of Enforcers be the BEST option because of their ability to defeat characters, boost Ld and force re-rolls on failed moral and pinning?

Its a "bad option" because you don't really need the extra enforcers.
5 of them is plenty. most of your squads are not worth the bother, as they will be cannon fodder will be decimated with ease either way.
There is very little actual need for enforcers. why pay 25 points to get your 10 guys that +1 ld, when you can pay 30 points to just get 10 more guys?
If the squad isn't huge-adding another squad is just a better option.

Compared to the other options, its just not that great. especially master of the horde, hertek magus or reaver-each granting subsential power ups to their own unique playstyles.