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Th0a wrote:
So I think I might pick up this book, been wanting to make a renegade army force witha bunch of troops and a ton of artillery for a loooong time. Quick question, do the renegade army guys still come with a lasgun as well as a pistol and cc weapon?

Generally (with some exceptions, like plague zombies) they have access to lasgun, autogan and shotguns (with the book literally saying in the wargear options "autoguns, lasguns or shotguns") which most of the times can be swapped freely with laspistols/autopistols+ccw and vice versa.

I've had a 1500 game vs renegades recently.

The enemy brought:
Demagogue with a MoT
Chaos Lord in terminator armor

3*3 Spawns
Platoon with 2 AC and 4 meltas
2 chimeras with melta-guyz inside
A small squad of mutant rebels

Plazma tank with non-overheating blasts and heavy bolters
2*3 rapiers
A squadron of 2 wyverns

My list was:
Huron
Cypher
2 squads of 20 slaanesh marines with 2 meltas, icon and combi-melta - lc - meltabomb champs
A squad of 10 chosen with 2 meltas + melta bomb on sarge from cypher formation
5 csm with a plazma + combi-plazma in a rhino

I was lucky and got the 1-st turn, Huron rolled infiltrate for 2 units, so, basically everything except a rhino had infiltrate.
It was DoW deployment and the enemy spread his forces across the whole board. And i've chosen only 1 flank to attack. On the 2-d turn the flank got overwhelmed and he also lost a Chaos Lord to a lucky melta shot. He surrendered after the 2-d turn. He made deployment mistakes, underestimated 3+ and fnp durability and mellee capabilities of bp+ccw chosen - charged them with 3 spawns and got murderized before striking thus granting me a free consolidation move towards his wiverns and leaving no bauble wrap in the way.

All in all:
Wyverns - great as usual. Even better than ig counterparts cause cheaper and bs doesn't matter there. Auto-include.

Rapiers - he didn't have a chance to fully test them cause i had only 1 vehicle and it was hidden from them. But with their stats - s9 ordnance - they're gona totally wreck armor. And they're relatively cheap - so, auto-include for at duty.

Plazma-tank - nice vehicle but s7 small blasts are just not scary. Mediocre choice all in all just cause you don't kill much stuff with small blasts. And it costs quite some ammount of points. I mean, i run KMK as an ork - they're s8 ap2 with ability to reroll scatter. But i find myself using them as chaff more often than killing something important.

Platoons really lack priests to be decent in mellee and orders to be deadly at range. So, they're clearly a bauble wrap there.

MoT Demagogue is handy and troop spawns are wonderful. Though, be mindful, they're not nearly as durable as MoN t6 spawns.

Did IA13 fix up the Chaos Spartan Assault Tank? If so I'd like the rules for it.

I think the Spartan is unchanged.

Diablix wrote:

Th0a wrote:
So I think I might pick up this book, been wanting to make a renegade army force witha bunch of troops and a ton of artillery for a loooong time. Quick question, do the renegade army guys still come with a lasgun as well as a pistol and cc weapon?

Generally (with some exceptions, like plague zombies) they have access to lasgun, autogan and shotguns (with the book literally saying in the wargear options "autoguns, lasguns or shotguns") which most of the times can be swapped freely with laspistols/autopistols+ccw and vice versa.

Yeah. You can make riflemen, but it (naturally) costs you your pistol to take it.

Leadership is.... so so.

I've now got the book, and I can see there are so many ways to amp up leadership that it's not a massive concern most of the time. Master-Voxes, the Fanatic rule, Enforcers, etc means that if you want to, your entire army will be Ld9-10 unless you really, really suck at rolling dice.

That makes your army functionally immune to morale checks from shooting, fear tests, pinning tests, and Ld-based witchfire attacks.

However, a basic blade-armed marine scout squad charging an absolutely full strength (I mean 'Master of Hordes' full strength) Renegade Infantry Squad will murder enough of them to leave you needing a double 1 to hold your ground, and that's not exactly a top-tier - or even second tier - assault unit.

It's more like Death Korps: shooting is fine, melee is instant death.

Obviously units like ogryns and marauders are more able to hold their own.

The sheer amount of cheap artillery is amusing as hell, but it's the 'tons of dudes' list that makes me giggle with stupid ideas. Four hundred respawning renegade infantry in a continuous tidal wave strikes me as funny.

Curious question, how do you actually unlock Spawn as an elite choice, I can't find any options which allow me to do so. I know the mutant Arch-Demagogue allows them as troops, and the Covenant of Tzeentch does so too, but I can't find the one which makes them elite.


I'm part way through playing a game right now. 100 men for 400 points? It's sheer awesomeness, mind you, half of them are zombies.

But I do like having five squads of ten men with grenade launchers, I really feel as though I will drown my foe in bodies.

The Sigil of Chaos allows you to ignore a failed moral check once per game turn. So at least for the first round of combat per turn, you can just ignore being swept. If by the second round youre still getting trounced by a difference of 9 kills, then its probably something that will have already obliterated the squad anyways.

Also, aside from mutant rabble hoards (who should probably be invested with a fearless leader), I feel this army does hoards as many-squads, not as giant-squads. Losing 15-20 infantry from being swept isnt a big deal when youve got four more of them right behind.

What are our answers to fighting big things like Imperial Knights and Wraithknights?

10 Vets with 2 Meltaguns, a Chimera, and the Scout rule seems solid for killing vehicles but not good enough to fight those units unless in mass. Maybe a huge mass of melta guns walking around the table will ensure enough guns get to shot at the big stuff that they will be over whelmed.

Massed infantry with meltaguns can do a pretty nice number on knights.

Bringing them down with stand-off fire is possible - rapier batteries or leman russ vanquishers can do it, but will need a lot of guns and militia training is a must.

There's something to be said for a wall of zombies. They'll stomp them flat pretty quickly but killing forty zombies takes ages even for a superheavy walker.

Remember that as a walker he can't tank shock his way through; he has to stop and chop apart each squad you throw in his way.

Didn't register that the Chaos Sigil was an option for regular renegade units. That does make a difference!
Also, the wall of martyrs is probably a good idea; it's more expensive than a regular aegis line, but in addition to being double-sided (giving some protection from overshooting mortar and whirlwind fire) they also make the defending unit Stubborn. Now stubborn with a good leadership is going to hold its ground, despite casualties.

Buying a wall of martyrs defence network, and stocking the bunkers with fire support squads, gun pits with rapiers, etc, etc could give you a decent solid defence line to hide your massed disposable minions behind. More importantly, Firestorm redoubts with escape hatches will let you 'compress' a big infantry unit and get essentially a free move out of your deployment zone to get your headlong bayonet charge as far up the field as possible....



Of course, the other problem with massed infantry armies is space. I've played a tyranid army with 90 termagants starting on the board plus spawnlings and they get in each other's way like nobody's business. I can barely imagine fitting a couple of hundred infantry in a deployment zone, let alone the 300-400 troops that a renegade army can easily field!

Lots and Lots of basilisks/earthshakers?

S9 ordenance has a very decent chance to pen a knight, and being blasts, you care little for crappy BS.
And a large blast will not miss a godamn knight often.

Militia trained annialator lemons?

Honestly I don't have great ideas here. renegades are the horde to end all hordes, but they have a slight problem taking down AV targets.

Reading this thread i've just decided to invest in the book. I thought DKOK was good but it seems you can do DKOK for cheaper, whilst countering their maneuverability weakness with things like spawn and the flying transport (plus CSM allies/Deamons).

If it costs 40pts for a BS3 squad, and assuming plasma is 15pts, mass 70pt squads also counters the MC weakness.

Quick question: Is the flying transport a DT or in a slot? Because dropping off plasma/melta armed plague marines/havocs/chosen would be uber awesome.

Also what is your opinion on the legacies compared to IA:2? Anything remotely similar to Mars, Keylek, Murder and Phall?


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Where did you guys get it from - I sure as hell can't find it on the FW site!

The arvis is DT for marauders, but is a 1-3 models (not squadded) per fast attack slot. So its pretty easy to fit a lot of them in.

Some of the legacies are pretty interesting, but mostly from a fluffy perspective, or need a list built around. The fact that they cant be put on daemon/possesed vehicles really limits the options to basically sicarans, and landraiders/spartans (and I guess flyers). Nothing as crazy as the IA2 ones though, no real auto-takes.
My favorite is one that basically turns the vehicle into a new objective (enemy can get a VP for killing it, or owner can get D3 VPs for keeping it alive). For 10pts, I think that's fun as hell.
Other standouts can give khorne units with icons FNP, or another can boost khorne daemon saves +1 (lots of khorne things, yay!). Another makes nearby cultists fearless (but renegades are now oodles better than cultists). Another allows maelific power rerolls equal to the number of hullpoints left. Most of the others are pretty speficic preferred enemey/hatred vs X.

Cheers for that!

Poly Ranger wrote:


If it costs 40pts for a BS3 squad, and assuming plasma is 15pts, mass 70pt squads also counters the MC weakness.

Cant do that, the 30 pt squad is a platoon unit, they cant take the BS3 upgrade.

The grenadiers are a 50 point squad with BS4 and hotshot guns but they start as 5 and they can only have a special for every 5.

Don't go looking for anti-tank in the troop section, other than grenadiers they are all "more dice, more wounds" style units. and the grenadiers are watered down scions. you got zero quality units there.

Ah - I will have to get the book before I can contribute even slightly. It's difficult to piece it all together but sounds awesome so far!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Where again can I find it please? Got a link by any chance?

Its not available at the moment. it sold out pretty much instantly
Wait for another print run, it should be soon enough.

There is also a battlescribe list, but it will give you onlt a general idea for costs without covering what the rules actually DO. (it just lists page numbers of most rules, and not actually write them.)
Enough for a general clue, but not perfect.




Also, when I took another look it seems I missed something.

There are simple veterans between platoons and grenadiers. mere BS3, but at 35 pt. per squad of 5, its not bad.
Still 1 special gun per 5 guys though.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:


If it costs 40pts for a BS3 squad, and assuming plasma is 15pts, mass 70pt squads also counters the MC weakness.

Cant do that, the 30 pt squad is a platoon unit, they cant take the BS3 upgrade.

The grenadiers are a 50 point squad with BS4 and hotshot guns but they start as 5 and they can only have a special for every 5.

Don't go looking for anti-tank in the troop section, other than grenadiers they are all "more dice, more wounds" style units. and the grenadiers are watered down scions. you got zero quality units there.

The infantry unit from the platoon can totally get militia training

They do?
Than my memory is betraying me.

Pretty much anything with BS2 can be upgraded to BS3. The only thing that dont get it, are thing already with BS3 (vets, mauraders), or BS4 (disciples)

With master of the hoard, you could fit 6 plasmaguns into a 30man squad for about 200pts (then theyd recycle on a 5+).

Yea, so considering that...why ever go for vets? seems wasteful.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yea, so considering that...why ever go for vets? seems wasteful.

Cheap min troop squad (since you don't need to buy 3 whole squads to fulfill a troop choice)
Comes with krak, 5+ armor, and militia training already
Gets access to cool rules like scout or deep strike

Frankly 10 Vets with 2 meltas/plasmas in a base chimera with Scout is pretty good in a mech list.

I mentioned a few pages back, vets, disciples, and marauders have sort of weird roles.

Vets I think would work best as MSU squads with rules like outflank or deepstrike. Theyre no IG vets, but they do have some interesting uses.

So what can go above 10 in a single unit? Just mutants? Or are the normal 30pt squads not capped at 10?

Scouts particularly the thing I noticed about that for Veterans that seems like it'd be a good choice.

Poly Ranger wrote:
So what can go above 10 in a single unit? Just mutants? Or are the normal 30pt squads not capped at 10?

Infantry squads can go up to 20 normally or up to 30 with Master of the Hoard (and you get 3-5 squads in a single troop slot)

Ah cheers! I'm beginning to get a better understanding of what you are all saying with each post every one makes.

Also thank you BoomWolf for letting me know its sold out - you saved me a long pointless internet search!

This is the 1850 hoard list I'm thinking of running

Arch Demagogue
+ Master of the Hoard
+ Covenant of Khorne
+ Power Axe
+ Melta Bombs
w/ 4 Disciples
+ Lascannon
5 Enforcers
+ Power Axe
+ Melta Bombs
+ Combat Drugs

Infantry Platoon
30 Infantry Command
+ Militia Training
+ Krak Grenades
+ 5 Meltaguns
+ Chaos Sigil
w/ Demagogue
+ Melta bomb
+ Khorne Covenant
30 Infantry
+ Militia Training
+ Krak Grenades
+ 5 Meltaguns
+ Chaos Sigil
w/ Champion
+ Melta bomb
+ Khorne Covenant
30 Infantry
+ Militia Training
+ Krak Grenades
+ 5 Meltaguns
+ Chaos Sigil
w/ Champion
+ Melta bomb

Infantry Platoon
30 Infantry Command
+ Militia Training
+ Krak Grenades
+ 5 Meltaguns
+ Chaos Sigil
w/ Demagogue
+ Melta bomb
+ Khorne Covenant
30 Infantry
+ Militia Training
+ Krak Grenades
+ 5 Meltaguns
+ Chaos Sigil
w/ Champion
+ Melta bomb
+ Khorne Covenant
30 Infantry
+ Militia Training
+ Krak Grenades
+ 5 Meltaguns
+ Chaos Sigil
w/ Champion
+ Melta bomb
+ Khorne Covenant

3 Laser Rapier Destroyers
+ Militia Training
+ 1 Crewmen
3 Laser Rapier Destroyers
+ Militia Training
+ 2 Crewmen
3 Earthshaker Artillery


Arch-Demagogue joins the squad without a covenant.

"We shall drown them in blood, our blood, but they'll drown."


Aaaanyway. zombies can also be over 10, they can be 50 IIRC, but you can only have one team and only if you go nurgle.


Also, artillery carriage. with extra crew members you can reach 24 crew and 3 guns. more than enough to gain a shot of reinforcements (if they EVER chew through the number of virtual T7 dudes. the current artillery rules are absurd!)
Crown, consider them for your list. even when not maxed out they are incredibly useful.
Honestly, this requires a dedicated answer X_X

Just realized just how absurd are the rapiers too, they sure AR the answer to any and all armor. even knights on front are going down.
If only they came in bigger squads...

Master of Hoards only reinforces Infantry Squads

Guys - check out the massive potential cheese that can come out of this: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/620899.page
That seems mighty broken when you can reliably throw a couple of greater deamons at your opponent a turn. As well as summoning 2 more units...