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2014/11/04 05:03:40
Subject: Berkeley Stduents Petition to Drop Bill Maher from Commencement
LuciusAR wrote: Regardless of whether you agree with him or not I find the idea of banning speakers from universities to be both sinister and patronising to all concerned.
Aren't educational institutions supposed to be all about the free and open debate of ideas and veiw points, even those deemed to be unusual or even dangerous? How exactly is free thought promoted when certain ideas deemed 'unacceptable' are prohibited from scrutiny?
Students aren't children in need of protection from hearing unpleasant or offensive things. If those who created and signed this petition can't handle hearing what Maher has to say perhaps they should consider if they are ready for university yet.
As a policy I agree EXCEPT for commencement speeches. Those are effectively nonvolunrary events, have families who didn't consent to squat, and the commencement has all to do with the commencement speaker.
Again this would be far better if the Dean gave a short speech, the Valedictorian gave a short speech, than they moved that train down the line. You've got five thousand hands to shake - get to it!
I think it'd be better, and more educational to pick a student at random from the graduates to give a speech.
2014/11/04 11:51:12
Subject: Berkeley Stduents Petition to Drop Bill Maher from Commencement
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/11/04 16:36:50
Subject: Berkeley Stduents Petition to Drop Bill Maher from Commencement
hotsauceman1 wrote: I hate graduations. I really really do.
The speeches from people I donot know, the long walk for a piece of paper.
Bah Humbug
I didn't want to go to my undergrad ceremony, but I did it for my mother who was helpful and patient with my schooling. So think of your family when it comes time to graduation. It is really more for them than the graduate anyway.
When it came time three years later for my grad ceremony, I skipped it all together. As Spiderman says, "Everybody gets one" and my mom got the undergrad ceremony in the hot, hot June sun.
2014/11/10 21:39:37
Subject: Re:Berkeley Stduents Petition to Drop Bill Maher from Commencement
If Bill is taking the same exact position liberals usually take whenever we see free speech being threatened, or women being abused or people forced to submit to fundamentalist dictates, why then is he facing any criticism for speaking out against these wrongs? When Christians do these things we speak up — loudly. So why not speak out when Muslims do it? ‘Cause it’s none of our business? Isn’t it?
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2014/11/10 21:57:53
Subject: Re:Berkeley Stduents Petition to Drop Bill Maher from Commencement
A friend of mine sent me this to me and I found it interesting. It is an open letter to Ben Affleck written by a Pakistani-born Canadian illustrator named Eiynah. It's a little long but worth a read:
Spoiler:
Dear Ben,
I am writing to you today, as a woman who was born and raised in Islam. I saw your discussion with Bill Maher and Sam Harris - And I must say, you did me a great disservice that day. Your heart was in the right place, of course, and it was lovely of you to step up and defend ‘my people’.
What you really did though, perhaps inadvertently, was silence a conversation that never gets started. Two people attempted to begin a dialogue and you wouldn’t even listen. Why should any set of ideas be above criticism, Ben?
Why are Muslims being ‘preserved’ in some time-capsule of centuries gone by? Why is it ok that we continue to live in a world where our women are compared to candy -- waiting to be consumed? Why is it ok for women of the rest of the world to fight for freedom and equality, while we are told to cover our shameful bodies? Can't you see that we are being held back from joining this elite club known as the 21st century?
Noble liberals like yourself always stand up for the misrepresented Muslims and stand against the Islamophobes, which is great -- but who stands in my corner, and for the others who have been oppressed by the 'religion of peace'? Every time we raise our voices, one of us is killed or threatened. I am a blogger and illustrator, no threat to anyone Ben - except for those afraid of words and drawings. I want the freedom to express myself, without the very real fear that I might be killed for it. Is that too much to ask?
When I wrote a children’s book that carried a message of diversity and inclusivity for everyone, my life changed. My book, ‘My Chacha (uncle) is Gay' has the innocent anti-homophobia message, ‘Love belongs to Everyone’. This was not palatable to many of my Muslim brothers and sisters.
Since that project I have been declared an ‘enemy of god’ and deemed worthy of death. All because I want to help create a world where South Asian children too can have their stories told, so they too can know that love comes in all forms, and that that’s ok. My muslim brothers and sisters were hit hard by this work because it addresses the issue of homophobia within our own community. It is not something they can pass off as ‘Western' immorality. Just like they deny that any issues exist within the doctrine of Islam, many deny that homosexuality exists amongst good, ‘moral’ muslims.
Just like that, millions of people’s existence is rejected. Please do not defend people who think this way, and let me tell you Ben, many ‘good’ muslims do think this way.
What you did by screaming ‘racist!’, was shut down a conversation that many of us have been waiting to have. You helped those who wish to deny there are issues, deny them. You became an instant hero, a defender of Islam. It’s kind, it really is. I understand, because I too am plagued and affected by the issues brought about by actual Islamophobia. I have a muslim name and brown skin, my peaceful relatives have been pushed in the subway and called ‘terrorist’ for no reason.
I get that.
We must distinguish critiquing an ideology from being hateful towards a group of people. And for this reason I think that tackling the issues within Islam should be two-pronged. They must be brought up, but simultaneously we should stress that blame for these issues cannot be placed on individuals.
I am Pakistan’s only sex blogger, I am also a woman. I am by default a lesser being within Islam. The fact that I talk about sex makes me even more worthy of disgust. Sex is not something easily discussed amongst muslims. And in the efforts of preserving our religious purity, we let some very immoral acts slide. Things that can often be justified by religious scripture. I speak to women every day who suffer under the religion of peace because they are not held as equals. There are things you can use to justify marital rape within the texts, and things you can use to justify pedophilia, there are things you can use to justify beheading infidels and apostates - just as ISIS does. That is not to say that ALL muslims are pedophiles, rapists or violent beheaders, or that Islam promotes these things. But if you are a person looking to justify such acts, you may find what you are looking for within the texts. Countless numbers of people suffer because of this, Ben.
Who will stand up for those people? In the interest of being politically correct and ‘liberal’ we silence the voices of millions. I am turning to you because you were instrumental in starting this conversation. Those of us who want reform are muted by extremists, as well as the liberals who betray us in the name of multiculturalism.
ISIS paints a horrific picture, so I understand the knee-jerk reaction to deny any link. Most muslims choose to interpret scripture in a peaceful way, but that doesn’t mean the raw material isn’t there for those who choose the path of violence. That material must be addressed.
Can we talk about the blatant double standards and violation of human rights, for a second? Mosques are built throughout Western countries, usually without much issue. But in the hub of Islam, the heart of Islam - in Saudi Arabia no one but muslims are allowed to officially practise their faith. There are no churches, temples or synagogues - because Saudi Arabia will not permit any non-muslim place of worship to exist. Who will hold them accountable for such injustice if we hush everyone who speaks out against Islam?
What is so wrong with wanting to step into the current century? Why is there shame in accepting a book that is over a thousand years old just doesn’t hold up anymore? There should be no shame. There is no denying that violence, misogyny and homophobia exist in all religious texts, but Islam is the only religion that is adhered to so literally, to this day.
In your culture you have the luxury of calling such literalists “crazies", like the Westboro Baptist Church for example. In my culture, such values are upheld by more people than we realise. Many will try to deny it, but please hear me when I say that these are not fringe values. It is apparent in the lacking numbers of Muslims willing to speak out against the archaic Shariah law. The lack of acceptance for any alternate sexuality, the punishment for blasphemy and apostasy, these things are tools of oppression. Why are they not addressed even by the peaceful folk who “aren’t fanatical, who just want to have some sandwiches and pray five times a day?” Where are the Muslim protestors against Blasphemy laws/apostasy? Where are the Muslims who take a stand against Shariah? These sandwich-eating peaceful folk do not defend those suffering in the name of Islam Ben, and therein lies our problem.
Maybe the points Maher and Harris were trying to make are more easily digested when coming from within the community, I can appreciate that. That is why I am writing to you, as someone who has personally been hurt by the lack of acknowledgement of these issues.
If Muslims do not critique the atrocities that the religion *can* justify, then people on the outside will - and their message will not be listened to simply because of who they are. Its a vicious cycle, one that can only break if indeed, like Harris said, true reformers are empowered.
I ask you and anyone reading this, to make an effort to seek out reformers from within our community, and support them in any way you can.
If I were allowed to meet a man that is not my father, brother or husband unchaperoned - I would have loved to discuss this over drinks (which I am also not allowed to have) with you. So you see, things must change.
Sincerely,
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2014/11/10 22:41:01
Subject: Berkeley Stduents Petition to Drop Bill Maher from Commencement
Also, unless you're responding using a typewriter, stop double spacing after a period.
I didn't double space at all.
Wait wait wait! Are we not supposed to double space after a period anymore? I haven't been keeping up with the MLA, apparently!
What Hordini said.
I when I was taught typing, I was taught to double space. However, when I began journalism I had to unlearn that and a couple of other bad habits I picked up when I was younger because we used The Chicago Manual of Style. Typewriters were limited to monospaced fonts, which made double spacing acceptable; modern computers typically don't use monospaced fonts (but they can). However, in personal correspondence double spacing it's more acceptable.
Now that I'm looking at it, it must be the quote system on Dakka... it seems to add spaces, unless you also double space Cincy, because in your quote box in my text field there are two spaces after the question mark.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2014/11/10 23:38:42
Subject: Berkeley Stduents Petition to Drop Bill Maher from Commencement
As well you should, because it only makes sense to do so!
The CMS also requires the use of a serial comma.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2014/11/11 00:00:06
Subject: Berkeley Stduents Petition to Drop Bill Maher from Commencement
My new book says "there", "their", and "they're" will hereafter be spelled "there" and furthermore "there" is now an acceptable singular possessive pronoun.
2014/11/11 00:59:23
Subject: Berkeley Stduents Petition to Drop Bill Maher from Commencement
jasper76 wrote: My new book says "there", "their", and "they're" will hereafter be spelled "there" and furthermore "there" is now an acceptable singular possessive pronoun.
Burn that book, it teaches lies!
2014/11/11 01:01:18
Subject: Berkeley Stduents Petition to Drop Bill Maher from Commencement
all to do with the commencement speaker.
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
