Berkeley Stduents Petition to Drop Bill Maher from Commencement

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**jasper76**

It appears the taboo against criticizing religious ideas is alive and well, and that Berkeley may not be teaching students that race and religion are not the same thing.

'UC Berkeley students petition to drop Bill Maher from commencement' by Jacque Wilson, CNN 10/28/14 ( http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/28/living/bill-maher-commencement-speaker/index.html?hpt=hp_c3 )

(CNN) -- TV host Bill Maher started his career as a standup comedian. But students at the University of California, Berkeley aren't laughing at his latest antics; they're petitioning to have him removed as their 2014 fall commencement speaker.

"Bill Maher is a blatant bigot and racist who has no respect for the values UC Berkeley students and administration stand for," a petition on Change.org states. "In a time where climate is a priority for all on campus, we cannot invite an individual who himself perpetuates a dangerous learning environment.

"Bill Maher's public statements on various religions and cultures are offensive and his dangerous rhetoric has found its way into our campus communities."

The petition points to a recent episode of Maher's HBO show "Real Time" as an example. (HBO, like CNN, is a division of Time Warner.) When actor Ben Affleck appeared on the program in early October, their conversation turned into a heated debate about Islam that many in the Muslim community found hurtful.

"Islam is the only religion that acts like the mafia that will f***ing kill you if you say the wrong thing," Maher said during the episode, which is cited on the students' petition as an example of Maher's "hate speech."

The Change.org petition had more than 2,200 signatures as of Tuesday morning. It appears to have been written by Khwaja Ahmed, an active member of the Middle Eastern, Muslim and South Asian Coalition, according to Berkeley's student newspaper.

This isn't the only petition on the site about Maher. Several have called for his firing from "Real Time," though they don't seem to have garnered much traction. Maher has been on the show for 12 years and has become known for his controversial statements on a wide range of topics.

**Frazzled**

Bill Maher was right, but he touched the third rail of PC.
Its nothing that he's against religion. He's been viciously against religion for years. After without him I would have never known about how TRexes love coconuts.

Its a particular religion. This act proves his whole point when he debated Dogma boy.

**whembly**

Don't these Berkeley student's know they're proving Maher's point?

**cincydooley**

whembly wrote:
Don't these Berkeley student's know they're proving Maher's point?

But Whembly!

Diversity! Equality! Things!

**Crablezworth**

They're being a bit precious. I still don't really get maher's point and sam harris is sarah palin for smart people.

**Cheesecat**

In other words people don't want someone who is embarrassing, pretentious, smug and obnoxious to do a commencement speech for their university makes sense to me.

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Crablezworth wrote:
They're being a bit precious. I still don't really get maher's point and sam harris is sarah palin for smart people.

Sam Harris is Sarah Palin for smart people?

Yeah, not really.

**jasper76**

Cheesecat wrote:
In other words people don't want someone who is embarrassing, pretentious, smug and obnoxious to do a commencement speech for their university makes sense to me.

You don't need to rewrite the article. 'embarrassing', 'pretentious', 'smug', and 'obnoxious' are much nicer words than were used in the commencement petition.

**cincydooley**

Cheesecat wrote:
In other words people don't want someone who is embarrassing, pretentious, smug and obnoxious to do a commencement speech for their university makes sense to me.

Well in that case, isn't Maher the perfect person for a University who's student body is generally pretentious, smug and obnoxious?

**Frazzled**

Oh yea, and he was supposed to give it. Then darn it if he didn't go off the reservation...

**ScootyPuffJunior**

cincydooley wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
In other words people don't want someone who is embarrassing, pretentious, smug and obnoxious to do a commencement speech for their university makes sense to me.

Well in that case, isn't Maher the perfect person for a University who's student body is generally pretentious, smug and obnoxious?

Exactly what I was thinking...

**Cheesecat**

cincydooley wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
In other words people don't want someone who is embarrassing, pretentious, smug and obnoxious to do a commencement speech for their university makes sense to me.

Well in that case, isn't Maher the perfect person for a University who's student body is generally pretentious, smug and obnoxious?

OK that was funny.

**Dreadclaw69**

whembly wrote:
Don't these Berkeley student's know they're proving Maher's point?

Who said Americans don't do irony?

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Cheesecat wrote:
In other words people don't want someone who is embarrassing, pretentious, smug and obnoxious to do a commencement speech for their university makes sense to me.

Embarrassing, pretentious, smug and obnoxious?

Yes.

Racist and bigoted?

No. Islam is not a race.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

cincydooley wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
In other words people don't want someone who is embarrassing, pretentious, smug and obnoxious to do a commencement speech for their university makes sense to me.

Well in that case, isn't Maher the perfect person for a University who's student body is generally pretentious, smug and obnoxious?

exalted

**Ahtman**

Even if we exclude the most recent episode didn't people already dislike him? He isn't an academic and he isn't someone important, and even many liberals find him to be an unlikable douche. Is it really a surprise that students wouldn't want him to give an address?

**Frazzled**

Except they wanted him before...

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

I blame the idiot that invited him.

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Ahtman wrote:
Even if we exclude the most recent episode didn't people already dislike him? He isn't an academic and he isn't someone important, and even many liberals find him to be an unlikable douche. Is it really a surprise that students wouldn't want him to give an address?

Well, to be fair, plenty of non-"academics" give commencement speeches.

I also find him to be an unlikable douche, but not because of his opinions (I don't agree with everything he says either), but because of his delivery.

**Ahtman**

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Ahtman wrote:
Even if we exclude the most recent episode didn't people already dislike him? He isn't an academic and he isn't someone important, and even many liberals find him to be an unlikable douche. Is it really a surprise that students wouldn't want him to give an address?
Well, to be fair, plenty of non-"academics" give commencement speeches.

I also find him to be an unlikable douche, but not because of his opinions (I don't agree with everything he says either), but because of his delivery.

The "isn't someone important" covered the non-Academics. I find him unlikeable both because of his attitude and many of his opinions.

**jasper76**

I personally think he is a likable douche, but to each his own

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Ahtman wrote:
ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Ahtman wrote:
Even if we exclude the most recent episode didn't people already dislike him? He isn't an academic and he isn't someone important, and even many liberals find him to be an unlikable douche. Is it really a surprise that students wouldn't want him to give an address?
Well, to be fair, plenty of non-"academics" give commencement speeches.

I also find him to be an unlikable douche, but not because of his opinions (I don't agree with everything he says either), but because of his delivery.

The "isn't someone important" covered the non-Academics. I find him unlikeable both because of his attitude and many of his opinions.

He's no less important than any other famous person that has given commencement speeches.

**Da Boss**

I really dislike Bill Maher. He's not that smart, though he seems to think he is, and he's just a smug gobshite who comes up with shallow one liners.

I don't have a particular problem with him saying what he said (though it is also incorrect of course, extremists in many religions can behave in the way described- though there does seem to be a higher number of islamic extremists than other religious groups), but then I also don't have a problem with students protesting what he said.

**Frazzled**

Strangely, i agree with Da Boss on all points.

**Da Boss**

The moons align sometimes, Fraz

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Da Boss wrote:
I really dislike Bill Maher. He's not that smart, though he seems to think he is, and he's just a smug gobshite who comes up with shallow one liners.

I don't have a particular problem with him saying what he said (though it is also incorrect of course, extremists in many religions can behave in the way described- though there does seem to be a higher number of islamic extremists than other religious groups), but then I also don't have a problem with students protesting what he said.

These things are cyclical.

At this moment in time, the 21st Century, Islam is currently the religion with the worst problems of extremism. Before that, it was probably Christianity (the Crusades, Colonialism and the Northern Ireland "Troubles" and Irish terrorism of the late 20th century, though that was more to do with nationalism and sectarianism than religion).

But the difference is, Christianity (in the West at least) has been largely neutered and pacified and forced to reform after the enlightenment and several centuries of secularism, scientific progress and civil rights movements. Islam on the other hand remains largely the same as it was in the Middle Ages. Islam needs to go through a similar process of reformation and overall pacification like Christianity did.

**Da Boss**

Well, there's the argument to be made that many islamic countries were undergoing a sort of liberalisation in the 20th century, but the failure of especially Arab states to deal effectively with Israel lead to the rise of extremism.

I would also nitpick your "Irish terrorism" to "british/irish terrorism"

because I'm a bollocks.

**Frazzled**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Da Boss wrote:
I really dislike Bill Maher. He's not that smart, though he seems to think he is, and he's just a smug gobshite who comes up with shallow one liners.

I don't have a particular problem with him saying what he said (though it is also incorrect of course, extremists in many religions can behave in the way described- though there does seem to be a higher number of islamic extremists than other religious groups), but then I also don't have a problem with students protesting what he said.

These things are cyclical.

At this moment in time, the 21st Century, Islam is currently the religion with the worst problems of extremism. Before that, it was probably Christianity (the Crusades, Colonialism and the Northern Ireland "Troubles" and Irish terrorism of the late 20th century, though that was more to do with nationalism and sectarianism than religion).

But the difference is, Christianity (in the West at least) has been largely neutered and pacified and forced to reform after the enlightenment and several centuries of secularism, scientific progress and civil rights movements. Islam on the other hand remains largely the same as it was in the Middle Ages. Islam needs to go through a similar process of reformation and overall pacification like Christianity did.

Don't forget, part of that was the religious wars of the 1500-1600s, including the infamous 30 Years War with equivalent casualty levels to Eastern Front WWII on the civilian populations, before a lot of that really burned out.

I'd rather not see 100 years of conflict where 30% of the population is slaughtered. Sadly that may be taking the place in Iraq/Syria as we speak.

**Ouze**

Bill Maher is an insufferable human being regardless of what the topic is, that seems adequate enough to drop him from any speaking engagement regardless of the topic.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Da Boss wrote:
Well, there's the argument to be made that many islamic countries were undergoing a sort of liberalisation in the 20th century, but the failure of especially Arab states to deal effectively with Israel lead to the rise of extremism.

Define "deal with" ? My impression is that the Islamic world pretty unanimously wishes Israel did not exist and wants the land to revert to Muslim control. (and thats putting it politely).

I would also nitpick your "Irish terrorism" to "british/irish terrorism" because I'm a bollocks.

If by British terrorism you mean the Ulster Unionist paramilitary groups, then yes.

**DarkTraveler777**

Da Boss wrote:
I don't have a particular problem with him saying what he said (though it is also incorrect of course, extremists in many religions can behave in the way described- though there does seem to be a higher number of islamic extremists than other religious groups)

What are you referring to here? The Maher/Affleck hullabaloo started not because Maher said that Islam has more extremists than other religions, or that Islamic extremists behave differently than other religions' extremists, but that Islam's tenets run counter to liberalism as demonstrated by people who identify as moderate Muslims believing in things like a death sentence for apostasy, or the persecution of religious and social minorities/women.

Which leads to this eloquent post. Excellent point, Shadow Captain Edithae.

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

At this moment in time, the 21st Century, Islam is currently the religion with the worst problems of extremism. Before that, it was probably Christianity (the Crusades, Colonialism and the Northern Ireland "Troubles" and Irish terrorism of the late 20th century, though that was more to do with nationalism and sectarianism than religion).

But the difference is, Christianity (in the West at least) has been largely neutered and pacified and forced to reform after the enlightenment and several centuries of secularism, scientific progress and civil rights movements. Islam on the other hand remains largely the same as it was in the Middle Ages. Islam needs to go through a similar process of reformation and overall pacification like Christianity did.

I think Maher's argument gets lost in all of the shouting and PC posturing, but ultimately his argument is that Islam is anathema to liberalism because it has not been "pacified" and until that happens it will continue to put liberals in a funky position where their support of Islam will also support practices that the same liberals would rage against if any other religion were committing those offenses.

As for the petition, I find it ridiculous, especially after reading some of the comments left by supporters of the petition who seem to be spouting the same nonsense about Maher being "racist" which tells me those commentators either didn't listen to his argument or can't understand it because race has nothing to do with what Maher is saying.