Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Am I the only that thinks the scopes on the bolt rifles are their own bits? While there are alternative companies, it would be nice for the people who have to play with 100% GW parts.

Personally, not gonna buy anything until there's confirmation on wether or not I can play Scions as their own

How do they plan on updating the points anyway?
They're not supposed to be free, but the only why to update them, short of releasing a new codex is by faqing, in which case the points are online and free.
At which point, why weren't they free from the get go? I might be misunderstanding their procedure but to me this seems no different than the system we already have now.
With the possible exception of not getting new editions and rather new codex releases for the same edition.

Well, they're taking a but of a different approach than the GHB for AoS apparently. Assuming, as they have said, the factions are going to be getting more dedicated, full books that replace these indexes we're basically back to the same point we are now. They can always errata points of course, but that's a messy way to do it.

Rather unclear at this point.

 Elbows wrote:
Also, worth noting (I think) that the NuMarines are heading in the Sigmarine direction...of having squads of guys fully equipped with the same item? This makes building armies easier and essentially future-proofs squads of models, but I think this is a sad sign if we eventually (over the next five years) see the disappearance of mixed-weapons Tactical Squads etc. I think it works of the Eldar aspect warriors (and yes it makes army construction damn easy), but I think the piece-meal nature of a Space Marine Tactical Squad is something rather iconic. Hope that doesn't slowly fade.

In Age of Sigmar, we still see a mix of weapons in the squad, even in the Stormcast Eternals. For example, the Liberators (Hammer and Shield guys) and Prosecutors (winged hammer-throwers) are stuck with what they get in the Starter Set, but the individual kits give them two different options for default loadout, and 1-in-so-many can take a "special" weapon. We also see it in Ironjzaw Brutes, Stormcast Retributors and Judicators, and several of the Kharadron Overlords, Khorne Bloodbound, and Skaven kits. It's not gone, it's just not for EVERY kit; the new AoS cavalry units in particular seem to not be getting any special weapons for the squads. I mean, the Liberators can have Swords or Hammers with their Shields, and 1-in-5 can have either a big two-handed hammer or sword as a stronger weapon. Not gone, just different.

Also, it is a way to keep Standard Astartes as a relevant option, since they can mix up their loadouts and be more flexible, while the Primaris are much more specialized. There's no telling what options might be available when they get their own kits outside of the starter set.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
My only (and quite a big) quarrel is that codices will still be subsequently released. Looks like codex creep will be a thing again. I wish they just released yearly (or bi-yearly) Index updates instead. I think GW would actually make more money w/ yearly Index updates, since every player would need to buy them... Oh well.

Yeah, this is a thing in AoS too only it is not just codex-creep, it is also codex-lag. Early Battletomes like Seraphon are very underpowered compared to the ones that followed.

Supposedly GW plan to address this by not putting the points on the data sheets, instead these will be in a separate table. That way if GW needs to update a unit or even an army for balance, they can just issue a new points sheet for it in an FAQ. That way the points can be adjusted while the rest of the codex remains valid.

It became Codex Creep because they started adding in NEW rules for the armies. Early on, it wasn't so creepy ( ), but when the General's Handbook came out, the subsequent army books began to have content in them designed to work with the Narrative and Matched Play sections of the General's Handbook (Allegiance Abilities, Artifacts, Warlord Traits, Path to Glory, etc). The older books don't have that, which is why they are "lacking" in the tournament scene (though that's not entirely true).

 Roknar wrote:
How do they plan on updating the points anyway?
They're not supposed to be free, but the only why to update them, short of releasing a new codex is by faqing, in which case the points are online and free.
At which point, why weren't they free from the get go? I might be misunderstanding their procedure but to me this seems no different than the system we already have now.
With the possible exception of not getting new editions and rather new codex releases for the same edition.

For Age of Sigmar, they are going to be releasing a new version of the book every year or so. I imagine we will get something similar for 40K.

Am I correct in assuming if I want to get up and playing from day 1 with full rules I will need:

The main core rulebook (no interest in the boxed set so can get this seperately)?
Books 1,2,4 and 5 since I play SWs, IKs, IG, Crons, Nids, Orks and Eldar?
And at some future date each of those armies will get a stand alone dedicated codex?

Yikes, thats a fair outlay no?

Naturally my armies rules are split into 3 books. -_-

How expensive are these books and is there fluff in the indexes or is that the main 40k rulesbook?

I'll probably grab the main rules just for the fluff alone and so I can keep up to date on theory crafting.

 Roknar wrote:
How do they plan on updating the points anyway?
They're not supposed to be free, but the only why to update them, short of releasing a new codex is by faqing, in which case the points are online and free.
At which point, why weren't they free from the get go? I might be misunderstanding their procedure but to me this seems no different than the system we already have now.
With the possible exception of not getting new editions and rather new codex releases for the same edition.

They can release a yearly General's handbook to round up any new releases and make any adjustments to power levels or something they fethed up.

They said as much in the first 8th edition FAQ.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/22/the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000-your-questions-answeredgw-homepage-post-2/

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:
Am I correct in assuming if I want to get up and playing from day 1 with full rules I will need:

The main core rulebook (no interest in the boxed set so can get this seperately)?
Books 1,2,4 and 5 since I play SWs, IKs, IG, Crons, Nids, Orks and Eldar?
And at some future date each of those armies will get a stand alone dedicated codex?

Yikes, thats a fair outlay no?

Yes. I wasn't aware of stand alone codecies, though. Yuck.

I'm getting the rule book plus all 5 books. I don't need/want the starter box.

 Ratius wrote:
Am I correct in assuming if I want to get up and playing from day 1 with full rules I will need:

The main core rulebook (no interest in the boxed set so can get this seperately)?
Books 1,2,4 and 5 since I play SWs, IKs, IG, Crons, Nids, Orks and Eldar?
And at some future date each of those armies will get a stand alone dedicated codex?

Yikes, thats a fair outlay no?

Its better than you having to buy 7 codices plus the rulebook like in every edition prior. Plus the prices seem to have dropped somewhat, based on the rumours.

Oh so one single book to cover all factions every year, with only a bunch of new point tables. That about right?

I sure hope the rules are super cheap, because a lot of books get inflated in price in Canada just for the lulz (probably our dumb governments fault this time). I would say books get over priced here more than anything else. I had to stop buying books because it was too hard to justify how much more expensive they are than anything else.

If they are the Age of Sigmar battle tome level that's cool. It's doable. Even the pricier Kharadron Overlords one I picked up was definitely worth the cost for sheer content.

 Gamgee wrote:
Naturally my armies rules are split into 3 books. -_-

How expensive are these books and is there fluff in the indexes or is that the main 40k rulesbook?

I'll probably grab the main rules just for the fluff alone and so I can keep up to date on theory crafting.

qft.

I'll definitely get the big book for the fluff, though apparenty it has some other special rules that aren't in the free Core rules(?). Hopefull the Indexes, since softcover and maybe just unit rules only (no galleries, fluff, etc?) will be like $20 US. A man can dream...

 Ratius wrote:
Am I correct in assuming if I want to get up and playing from day 1 with full rules I will need:

The main core rulebook (no interest in the boxed set so can get this seperately)?
Books 1,2,4 and 5 since I play SWs, IKs, IG, Crons, Nids, Orks and Eldar?
And at some future date each of those armies will get a stand alone dedicated codex?

Yikes, thats a fair outlay no?

At least you know your armies! I'm returning from 5th w/ just Eldar and still deciding which additional armies to play, so I'll be buying 3 (CSM, DE, Nids are candidates), possibly all 5 of the books, and only using 2 at most (limiting myself to 2 factions for the rest of my 40k career) after all is said and done.

tneva82 wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Spoiler:

Necrons being part of the Aeldari book is a head scratcher for sure. T'au or even Orks (who are technically cousins to Eldar) would have made a lot more sense.

I definitely got to get Xenos 1 and Chaos.
I am really glad all the Marines are in the same book. I'll be getting that one too, even though I don't play Marnies.

In fact, if these books end up being less than $30 US, I'll probably get all of them. Undoubtedly there is going to be a bundle with all 5 + main Rules. Hopefully for well under $200 US

-

War of the heaven.

I don't really see that as applicable since Orks should also be a part of that and Space Marines/Chaos Marines are not in the same book for "Horus Heresy"
I really thing they just needed X more pages in the Aeldari book and Necrons fit the closest.

-

 Roknar wrote:
Oh so one single book to cover all factions every year, with only a bunch of new point tables. That about right?

I guess?

I imagine it will follow the AoS way. I believe that is how theirs works

 Roknar wrote:
Oh so one single book to cover all factions every year, with only a bunch of new point tables. That about right?

In Age of Sigmar, there are the Grand Alliance Books, and they have not been updated yet having been out for well over a year now. The General's Handbook is the one that contains the Matched Play points which will get adjusted over time. I imagine we will have something similar for 40K.

 Gamgee wrote:
I sure hope the rules are super cheap, because a lot of books get inflated in price in Canada just for the lulz (probably our dumb governments fault this time). I would say books get over priced here more than anything else. I had to stop buying books because it was too hard to justify how much more expensive they are than anything else.

If they are the Age of Sigmar battle tome level that's cool. It's doable. Even the pricier Kharadron Overlords one I picked up was definitely worth the cost for sheer content.

Take a look at the prices for the Grand Alliance Books for Age of Sigmar. $101 USD for all of the warscrolls for each army being supported, not including units or armies released after them, obviously.

I imagine each army will get its own Codex over time as new units and new armies get added in. These new alliance books are most likely a stopgap to keep everyone playing until we start getting proper Codexes (Codices?) again.

I imagine when they say full faction rules they mean it. So it would be the equivallent of having a bttletome in AoS? So I imagine for Tau and DE there would be rules for some fluffy sept's and Kabal's respectively.

I have to see what rules are in these indexes to see if I can justify grabbing them and how they compare to the rules in a battletomb. If my factions are just getting a battletomb of their own later with full rules and any new additions from the inevitable launch I may as well wait since I won't be able to get games with my Tau here anyways and me DE army isn't anywhere near ready yet.

Edit
In that case bunk core rules for me and I'll have to use my Barak-Mhornar ingenuity to find the indexes for cheap somewhere. That or see a good preview of them to see if the are worth the price.

Im confused, do we need to buy the rulebook to get everything or is it free?

 TheLumberJack wrote:
Im confused, do we need to buy the rulebook to get everything or is it free?

The main 40k rules-lite is free. The advanced rules are not. I have no idea what "advanced" means but probably the rules for organizing more advanced list building rules for tournament games and more in depth balance as opposed to imply using unit power ratings.

 Gamgee wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:
Im confused, do we need to buy the rulebook to get everything or is it free?

The main 40k rules-lite is free. The advanced rules are not. I have no idea what "advanced" means but probably the rules for organizing more advanced list building rules for tournament games and more in depth balance as opposed to imply using unit power ratings.

I imagine that the unit rules and Datacards will be available as a free PDF download off of the GW website. Cause, you know, it is for Age of Sigmar

They are using language that indicates the different mission types and scenarios as being the "advanced rules", so stuff like Cities of Death. It looks to me like the full core rules for running standard mission types will be free.

Its better than you having to buy 7 codices plus the rulebook like in every edition prior.

Thats true I suppose.

I suspect that the actual controlled version of the points is going to be in their app. The codices and books are just a snapshot in time.

If the 5 faction "Index" books are covering every single unit currently playable, then what will the stand-alone Codices even be for?

 Galef wrote:
If the 5 faction "Index" books are covering every single unit currently playable, then what will the stand-alone Codices even be for?

Well I have on idea but it depends on what rules are in the indexes.

In AoS battle tombs there are individual faction rules for running that faction as a single coherent force as opposed to part of a grand alliance army. For the Overlords this includes the ability to make your army be one of the six great ports or your own unique one. So you can specify what type of kahradron overlords your army is depending on sky port. It also has formations inside of them as well and battle plans for pre generated battles and tons of fluff. Each of the ports has different rules and some of them can be pretty strong.

If all of that is already in the indexes then I imagine that codices might be the start of new faction lore and stories that will eventually become new plot books gathering storm style. If most of the rules are in the indexes already they will probably just be for releasing new models and rules. However if the indexes are not that in depth then they would add faction specific rules. So for Tau probably septs and DE probably rules for famous kabals ect.

To me is pretty clear that the datasleets are gonna be free with the Power Levels in them. If not, how are you going to play the game? Is absurd to have the Core Rules for free but not the units rules.

The Indexs probably will have the Datasleets and point costs. But I think that the Warhammer40k app, like the warscrolbuilder one, will have points costs too. Or maybe only Power level, because thats more similar to AoS points. You pay for the models, not upgrades.

 Galef wrote:
If the 5 faction "Index" books are covering every single unit currently playable, then what will the stand-alone Codices even be for?

Probably expanded options, formations and command points that aren't in the indices.

The "leaks" have started, we just got two page scans up on spikey bits. They could have like waited a day to make it a little less obvious it was GW "leaking" the info.

 Luciferian wrote:

 Galef wrote:
If the 5 faction "Index" books are covering every single unit currently playable, then what will the stand-alone Codices even be for?

Probably expanded options, formations and command points that aren't in the indices.

Yeah, basically is the same format as AoS battletomes. Formations, Battle traits, Psychics lores if the army uses them, etc...

 Galas wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

 Galef wrote:
If the 5 faction "Index" books are covering every single unit currently playable, then what will the stand-alone Codices even be for?

Probably expanded options, formations and command points that aren't in the indices.

Yeah, basically is the same format as AoS battletomes. Formations, Battle traits, Psychics lores if the army uses them, etc...

I forgot about battle traits and psychic powers. That all makes plenty of stuff for them to hold back for the codices.

 Galas wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

 Galef wrote:
If the 5 faction "Index" books are covering every single unit currently playable, then what will the stand-alone Codices even be for?

Probably expanded options, formations and command points that aren't in the indices.

Yeah, basically is the same format as AoS battletomes. Formations, Battle traits, Psychics lores if the army uses them, etc...

So basically it will be unnecessary junk...until players pick up on certain combos that are "must-take" for competitive play? Great

-

 Galef wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Spoiler:

Necrons being part of the Aeldari book is a head scratcher for sure. T'au or even Orks (who are technically cousins to Eldar) would have made a lot more sense.

I definitely got to get Xenos 1 and Chaos.
I am really glad all the Marines are in the same book. I'll be getting that one too, even though I don't play Marnies.

In fact, if these books end up being less than $30 US, I'll probably get all of them. Undoubtedly there is going to be a bundle with all 5 + main Rules. Hopefully for well under $200 US

-

War of the heaven.

I don't really see that as applicable since Orks should also be a part of that and Space Marines/Chaos Marines are not in the same book for "Horus Heresy"
I really thing they just needed X more pages in the Aeldari book and Necrons fit the closest.

-

Oh no doubt main reason was just more even but when thinking what force to put necrons make more sense than say tyranids. There's at least SOME thematic connection between them.

Alternatively of course maybe they just rolled dice which other alien army gets mixed in