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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Probably not the most efficient thing but I think I'll try out 10-man Tac squads and split them up into the Sarge w/combi + special weapon group and the missile launcher group. I've only just started building a Space Marine army so I need the points where I can make them.


Anyone know what they want to kit out a Venerable Dread with? I'm thinking of having with some shooty stuff but keeping the Dreadnought combat weapon and have it babysit a couple of Dev squads in my back line and act as a reactionary charge unit if I need it to.


If standing still Quad Autocannon is a great loadout for a venerable as it gets eight shots on a 2+, with some flexibility for targeting viability between the range, bit of rend and reliable 2 damage per shot.

Las I'd personally leave until the forge world index comes out and you can get a quad las Mortis dread.

Personally for mixed role I'd go with a dual bolter or autocannon. At the cheaper end of options, pretty flexible and good fire rate.
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






I found an Ironclad I once started to build and I'm gonna finish building him. I think I'll go with a chainfist, hurricane bolter and heavy flamer, so he can footslog across the field and pew-pew with the bolter.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Crimson wrote:
I found an Ironclad I once started to build and I'm gonna finish building him. I think I'll go with a chainfist, hurricane bolter and heavy flamer, so he can footslog across the field and pew-pew with the bolter.


Hmm well hurricane bolters don't seem very good, but on the other hand the Ironclad seems kind of a weak link in the Dreadnought family for costing quite a bit more whilst being melee focused and not coming with the enhanced movement of a contemptor or Blood Angels dread.

I run a pure dreadnought gimmick list in 7th, waiting for the forge world index to see all my options to update it but I have been thinking about it a lot. I've been thinking I might have to go mixed chapter to get it to work.
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






changemod wrote:

Hmm well hurricane bolters don't seem very good, but on the other hand the Ironclad seems kind of a weak link in the Dreadnought family for costing quite a bit more whilst being melee focused and not coming with the enhanced movement of a contemptor or Blood Angels dread.

It is not very good, but then again, re-rolling ones with extra CCW is not terribly good either, especially as there are other ways to grant those re-rolls. And it is not heavy weapon, so at least it is not penalised for moving and shooting. Besides as I have no way to transport the dread, as they no longer can go into pods and I don't have a Stormraven, the poor bastard has to footslog, so at least he can offer some fire support while doing so.


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Depending on your opponents its actualy very nice to walk him behind a rhino or sneak through terrain as a mid board assault threat. you do not want to get into combat with an ironclad.

foot slogging can be ok but yeah it sucks it doesn't really do much outside of 12"

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Black Templar Chaplain with Hate to Spare




On the Internet

 Desubot wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Median Trace wrote:
 ultimentra wrote:
It's a shame that Inceptors are so expensive, because they are one of only 3 ways to get mortal wounds in a SM list. The other two are Assault Centurions and charging with a Land Raider, unless Guilliman has the ability to do it.

Or psychic powers. Which really there is not a lot you can put in a SM list to help deal mortal wounds with this in mind. I don't think a lot of people are going to take Assault Centurions, nor are they going to take Inceptors now because they will definitely get focused down.

Ironclad Dreadnoughts can put out Mortal Wounds on the charge as well.

So can Assault Centurions if you keep the assault launchers. Put them and an Ironclad in a Storm Raven for maximum effect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Probably not the most efficient thing but I think I'll try out 10-man Tac squads and split them up into the Sarge w/combi + special weapon group and the missile launcher group. I've only just started building a Space Marine army so I need the points where I can make them.


Anyone know what they want to kit out a Venerable Dread with? I'm thinking of having with some shooty stuff but keeping the Dreadnought combat weapon and have it babysit a couple of Dev squads in my back line and act as a reactionary charge unit if I need it to.

Twin Lascannon/Missile Launcher seems to be the best long range load out if you're just looking to pop some stuff at range, but if you want to keep the Dreadnough CCW then I would consider either the Lascannon or Plasma Cannon since they have long range and don't push you to get closer to the enemy.
until it gets blown out of the sky

a friend of mine tried that and got wasted T1

we all had a laugh.

True, it has that risk, but in terms of options to get those slow moving melee units into combats it's a solid one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ironclads are unfortunately very short ranged. And while the Hurricane Bolter is greatly buffed this edition, it's definitely not a strong gun unless you're attempting to drown the enemy in bullets.

Which is a viable tactics for certain Marine builds.

I've been a long standing fan of the Ironclad, but haven't seen a way to make them viable. They're too slow to footslog effectively, lack effective ranged options outside of Hunter Killer missiles.

If you're running a large tank like a Land Raider, it can help shield him from the opponent while the Ironclad acts as a countercharge unit, but with a movement difference of 8" the Ironclad will need to do a lot of advancing while the tank puts along so he can keep up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 16:49:44


 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Contemptor Dreadnought with Kheres Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Combat Weapon, Combi Bolter comes out to 165 points.

An Ironclad with a Hurricane Bolter and Dreadnought Chainfist comes out to 170.

Someone should check my math on those, but they are fairly close in point cost. Pros? Cons? I tried the Contemptor in my first game, and he didn't last long even with an invuln. The degrading profile meant that after he got lit up turn 1 he was moving very slowly. The Kheres is also not what it used to be, kind of weak weapon now.
   
Made in us
Black Templar Chaplain with Hate to Spare




On the Internet

Dreadnoughts are generally tougher, but need to hide from LOS on deployment to get any chance to shoot effectively even once.
   
Made in ca
Infiltrating Broodlord





Oshawa Ontario

changemod wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
I found an Ironclad I once started to build and I'm gonna finish building him. I think I'll go with a chainfist, hurricane bolter and heavy flamer, so he can footslog across the field and pew-pew with the bolter.


Hmm well hurricane bolters don't seem very good, but on the other hand the Ironclad seems kind of a weak link in the Dreadnought family for costing quite a bit more whilst being melee focused and not coming with the enhanced movement of a contemptor or Blood Angels dread.

I run a pure dreadnought gimmick list in 7th, waiting for the forge world index to see all my options to update it but I have been thinking about it a lot. I've been thinking I might have to go mixed chapter to get it to work.


The role I envision for Ironclad is sitting/walking behind other units as a counter charge hammer. It's not bad at punching out Monsters, as swinging first with 4 S12 attacks, doing 5 wounds seems like a solid way to punch something right out. 2 HK missiles and a melta gun to chisel a few wounds at range. Of course price is the main issue. Being over 200 points sucks though.

I've been hammering out the cost of some of my vehicles and units....hot damn those points increases.

Stormraven = 303 with Assault cannons and multi-melta
Ironclad = 214 with 2 HK missiles, seismic hammer, meltagun and heavy flamer.
Land Raider = 356 for a stock god hammer!?
3 Attack bikes with multi-meltas is 216.

What is an army even going to look like at 2000 points?

Looking for Durham Region gamers in Ontario Canada, send me a PM!

See my gallery for Chapterhouse's Tervigon, fully painted.
 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






 Carnage43 wrote:
changemod wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
I found an Ironclad I once started to build and I'm gonna finish building him. I think I'll go with a chainfist, hurricane bolter and heavy flamer, so he can footslog across the field and pew-pew with the bolter.


Hmm well hurricane bolters don't seem very good, but on the other hand the Ironclad seems kind of a weak link in the Dreadnought family for costing quite a bit more whilst being melee focused and not coming with the enhanced movement of a contemptor or Blood Angels dread.

I run a pure dreadnought gimmick list in 7th, waiting for the forge world index to see all my options to update it but I have been thinking about it a lot. I've been thinking I might have to go mixed chapter to get it to work.


The role I envision for Ironclad is sitting/walking behind other units as a counter charge hammer. It's not bad at punching out Monsters, as swinging first with 4 S12 attacks, doing 5 wounds seems like a solid way to punch something right out. 2 HK missiles and a melta gun to chisel a few wounds at range. Of course price is the main issue. Being over 200 points sucks though.

I've been hammering out the cost of some of my vehicles and units....hot damn those points increases.

Stormraven = 303 with Assault cannons and multi-melta
Ironclad = 214 with 2 HK missiles, seismic hammer, meltagun and heavy flamer.
Land Raider = 356 for a stock god hammer!?
3 Attack bikes with multi-meltas is 216.

What is an army even going to look like at 2000 points?


Asides from the carnifex almost everyones big punchy things are about 200 points.

at 2k points i took 2 twin las razor backs 2 tac squads and a sniper scout, a butt load of TH SS Terminators, 10 man assault, 5man las devs, a TFC lysander and a lieutenant. with pretty much all the fixins.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 18:04:33


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Black Templar Chaplain with Hate to Spare




On the Internet

Looking at Power Weapons (for the cheaper chop), Power Axes look generally better unless you're running a Company Veteran squad near Helbrecht then Swords seem better as they negate anything with a 4+ armour or worse and wound anything T4 and down on 3s vs the Axe wounding T4 and down on 3s but only negating anything with a 5+ armour or worse.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 ultimentra wrote:
Contemptor Dreadnought with Kheres Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Combat Weapon, Combi Bolter comes out to 165 points.

An Ironclad with a Hurricane Bolter and Dreadnought Chainfist comes out to 170.

Someone should check my math on those, but they are fairly close in point cost. Pros? Cons? I tried the Contemptor in my first game, and he didn't last long even with an invuln. The degrading profile meant that after he got lit up turn 1 he was moving very slowly. The Kheres is also not what it used to be, kind of weak weapon now.


Contemptor is faster, first degradation layer only makes it the same speed, needs to be at 1-2 wounds to be slower. Speed is really important on an assault unit, will matter less when we get the Mortis variant.

Extra wounds plus an invulnerable will usually but not always make it a bit more durable than higher toughness will.

+1 strength isn't as good an upgrade over the regular assault cannon as +2 shots used to be, I'd agree. I'd have preferred -1 additional rend if they were going to take the improving quality of shot rather than quantity route.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Lets not forget about a BS and WS of 2+. Hopefully FW will give us some better weapon options. I personally would love to see the Galatus get stats but that's probably a pipe dream.

Also, what are your guys thoughts on the Thunderfire Cannon? About 130 points with everything for the Techmarine Gunner. To me it looks rather weak. Maybe I'm missing something?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 22:27:12


 
   
Made in us
Black Templar Chaplain with Hate to Spare




On the Internet

 ultimentra wrote:
Lets not forget about a BS and WS of 2+. Hopefully FW will give us some better weapon options. I personally would love to see the Galatus get stats but that's probably a pipe dream.

Also, what are your guys thoughts on the Thunderfire Cannon? About 130 points with everything for the Techmarine Gunner. To me it looks rather weak. Maybe I'm missing something?

Only plus I see is hitting stuff out of LoS.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Looking for the Rest of the II Legion

 ultimentra wrote:
Lets not forget about a BS and WS of 2+. Hopefully FW will give us some better weapon options. I personally would love to see the Galatus get stats but that's probably a pipe dream.

Also, what are your guys thoughts on the Thunderfire Cannon? About 130 points with everything for the Techmarine Gunner. To me it looks rather weak. Maybe I'm missing something?


If they release rules for the Galatus I will 100% use it as an excuse to start a Custodes force. No shame, no questions asked.

"My friend, you would not tell with such high zest, to children ardent for some desperate glory the old lie, Dulce et Decorum Est Pro Patria Mori."
Grey Knights ~ 3500, Fully Painted =][= Space Wolves ~ 4000, Fully Painted =][= Prosperine Exiles ~ WIP =][= Altian Wraiths ~ WIP
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block






What are the combos right now? Are there any must take units or ones people are really liking?
   
Made in us
Black Templar Chaplain with Hate to Spare




On the Internet

 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
What are the combos right now? Are there any must take units or ones people are really liking?

Well...what kind of army are you looking to play?

Generally the army is looking more balanced, and while there are some weaker choices, there aren't a lot of things you really need to run unless you're building to a theme (Ultramarines so you get Guilliman for example).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Looking for the Rest of the II Legion

 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
What are the combos right now? Are there any must take units or ones people are really liking?


Choppy or Shooty?

"My friend, you would not tell with such high zest, to children ardent for some desperate glory the old lie, Dulce et Decorum Est Pro Patria Mori."
Grey Knights ~ 3500, Fully Painted =][= Space Wolves ~ 4000, Fully Painted =][= Prosperine Exiles ~ WIP =][= Altian Wraiths ~ WIP
 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Auras are very good. Generally speaking.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block






 Aetare wrote:
 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
What are the combos right now? Are there any must take units or ones people are really liking?


Choppy or Shooty?


i plan to run a choppy inquisition force with sisters of silence accolyted and acro flagellants with black templars
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Looking for the Rest of the II Legion

Hmmmmm then I think this thread will only be able to speak to the BT portion of your force with any level of accuracy, and even then I'm no expert of the Crusaders so I'll leave that to the others to advise.

"My friend, you would not tell with such high zest, to children ardent for some desperate glory the old lie, Dulce et Decorum Est Pro Patria Mori."
Grey Knights ~ 3500, Fully Painted =][= Space Wolves ~ 4000, Fully Painted =][= Prosperine Exiles ~ WIP =][= Altian Wraiths ~ WIP
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Aetare wrote:
 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
What are the combos right now? Are there any must take units or ones people are really liking?


Choppy or Shooty?


The current SM index can't do choppy. It lacks good dedicated assault units for dealing with anything but big gribblies. Thunderhamers will punk a tank, but do very little to, say, 30 hormagaunts.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Yeah we need flamers and artillery to deal with hordes. Or guardsmen.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Yep, shooting shooting. Problem is that Tyranids are so blazingly fast that it is actually hard to get into even 12 inch range to double tap for nid assault units
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





stratigo wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
What are the combos right now? Are there any must take units or ones people are really liking?


Choppy or Shooty?


The current SM index can't do choppy. It lacks good dedicated assault units for dealing with anything but big gribblies. Thunderhamers will punk a tank, but do very little to, say, 30 hormagaunts.


I disagree, I believe Vangaurd Vets with chainssword do a fairly good job, especially with storm shield for a cheap 5pts a pop. A chaplin lets you reroll all your failed hits and a Librarian can give you unit +1S/T/A, this will let you kill hordes of guys easily.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block




I haven't had the chance to have a good look at the Index yet, can you guys give me your first impressions on some of the units in the army I've started?

Basically I'm making an Iron Hands dreadnaught heavy army. The core is a couple of Techmarines on bikes with minimum bike squad bodyguards, a handful of scouts (either snipers or in storms), and as many dreadnaughts I can cram in.

So yeah, Techmarines, Bikes, Scouts and the different Dreadnaught variants, how do they look to you?
How does the Techmarines repair and fortify mechanics function now?
Does taking a HQ on a bike give me access to Troop bikes still?
How valuable will Scout snipers be? (I'm thinking taking out key special/heavy weapons)

Having read through this thread now, I'm loving that a servo harness Techmarine on a bike can shoot everything! I'm just imagining what that'd look like IRL. So cool!
It sucks that Ironclads are so expensive, and that Kheres cannons aren't that much better than standard assault cannons.

Cheers guys.
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

 Coyote81 wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
What are the combos right now? Are there any must take units or ones people are really liking?


Choppy or Shooty?


The current SM index can't do choppy. It lacks good dedicated assault units for dealing with anything but big gribblies. Thunderhamers will punk a tank, but do very little to, say, 30 hormagaunts.


I disagree, I believe Vangaurd Vets with chainssword do a fairly good job, especially with storm shield for a cheap 5pts a pop. A chaplin lets you reroll all your failed hits and a Librarian can give you unit +1S/T/A, this will let you kill hordes of guys easily.


Librarian doesnt give an entire unit +1 S/T/A, just a character.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_Jakman wrote:
I haven't had the chance to have a good look at the Index yet, can you guys give me your first impressions on some of the units in the army I've started?

Basically I'm making an Iron Hands dreadnaught heavy army. The core is a couple of Techmarines on bikes with minimum bike squad bodyguards, a handful of scouts (either snipers or in storms), and as many dreadnaughts I can cram in.

So yeah, Techmarines, Bikes, Scouts and the different Dreadnaught variants, how do they look to you?
How does the Techmarines repair and fortify mechanics function now?
Does taking a HQ on a bike give me access to Troop bikes still?
How valuable will Scout snipers be? (I'm thinking taking out key special/heavy weapons)

Having read through this thread now, I'm loving that a servo harness Techmarine on a bike can shoot everything! I'm just imagining what that'd look like IRL. So cool!
It sucks that Ironclads are so expensive, and that Kheres cannons aren't that much better than standard assault cannons.

Cheers guys.


1: Dreads are alright, and Ironclads are one of the few units we have that can dish out mortal wounds on the charge. However, all dreadnoughts are slow, so without Stormravens to ferry them around, they dont do much for CC. Ymmv, of course,

2: they repair D3 wounds on vehicles now, and dont have any form of cover boosting anymore. You dont need servo arms to repair vehicles anymore.

3: No. but there are FOCs that let you take 3-6 Fast Attack, or Elites, or Heavies, rather than taking troops. No more troop bikes for Marines so far. You can skip scouts if you want now, and just load up on dreadnoughts.

4: Snipers can no longer pick models in units to put wounds on, however they can target characters behind units. independent characters no longer can join units, but cant normally be targetted unless they're the closest target.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/10 07:29:04


 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Coyote81 wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
What are the combos right now? Are there any must take units or ones people are really liking?


Choppy or Shooty?


The current SM index can't do choppy. It lacks good dedicated assault units for dealing with anything but big gribblies. Thunderhamers will punk a tank, but do very little to, say, 30 hormagaunts.


I disagree, I believe Vangaurd Vets with chainssword do a fairly good job, especially with storm shield for a cheap 5pts a pop. A chaplin lets you reroll all your failed hits and a Librarian can give you unit +1S/T/A, this will let you kill hordes of guys easily.


Have you mathed it? I like mathing verse Genestealers (As the unit I think is the best) and ork boyz
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

So, Aura effects also affect the model that brings the Aura, right?

So does Guilliman reroll hits and wounds?

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Crazyterran wrote:
So, Aura effects also affect the model that brings the Aura, right?

So does Guilliman reroll hits and wounds?


With the rules as written, he certainly does
   
 
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