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Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 Crazyterran wrote:
So, Aura effects also affect the model that brings the Aura, right?

So does Guilliman reroll hits and wounds?
There is even a sidebar in the BRB that specifically says this. So Bobby G buffs himself.

For me, if means Pedro Kantor has 5 Power Fist attacks and rerolls misses. That -1 WS doesn't mean squad when you reroll 1s and 2s anyway.

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Most Space Marine units are going to die to a round of a 20-strong genestealer assault. Screening units will be important. I think the dual heavy flamer land speeder might be a great tool against this types of horde units.
   
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On the Internet

stratigo wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
What are the combos right now? Are there any must take units or ones people are really liking?


Choppy or Shooty?


The current SM index can't do choppy. It lacks good dedicated assault units for dealing with anything but big gribblies. Thunderhamers will punk a tank, but do very little to, say, 30 hormagaunts.

Vanguard Vets can get an hilarious number of attacks. Twin chainswords are an option and that gives a unit of 5 21 attacks. 10 models get 41 attacks. Run them without Jump Packs with Grimaldus to gain an extra 6.8 attacks on average for a whopping 47.8 attacks from a unit that only runs 160 points for the squad, and 280 with Grimaldus tagging along.

So there is SOME choppy, but don't expect it to take down the biggest things through melee, just tear through hordes like a blender full of Rippers set to "puree".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
stratigo wrote:
 Crazyterran wrote:
So, Aura effects also affect the model that brings the Aura, right?

So does Guilliman reroll hits and wounds?


With the rules as written, he certainly does

GW has confirmed it. He's an Ultramarine, so he benefits from his own rule.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/10 20:58:04


 
   
Made in us
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Indiana

As they should, its 20 genestealers. I think it will be important to identify the cheapest source of high volume of fire shots and I believe it will be a mix of heavy bolters and twin assault cannons. Assault cannons are good because they wound t3 on 2s. Heavy bolters are good because they come on cheaper platforms.

People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer

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Median Trace wrote:
Most Space Marine units are going to die to a round of a 20-strong genestealer assault. Screening units will be important. I think the dual heavy flamer land speeder might be a great tool against this types of horde units.

If it takes twenty models to kill units of ten, then I'm okay with this.
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Median Trace wrote:
Most Space Marine units are going to die to a round of a 20-strong genestealer assault. Screening units will be important. I think the dual heavy flamer land speeder might be a great tool against this types of horde units.

If it takes twenty models to kill units of ten, then I'm okay with this.
How many points each unit costs is what is important to me. Ork Boyz hordes and Gaunt or Stealer blobs have me worried because they are dirt cheap.

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Deathwatch: 1500 pts
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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Median Trace wrote:
Most Space Marine units are going to die to a round of a 20-strong genestealer assault. Screening units will be important. I think the dual heavy flamer land speeder might be a great tool against this types of horde units.

If it takes twenty models to kill units of ten, then I'm okay with this.
How many points each unit costs is what is important to me. Ork Boyz hordes and Gaunt or Stealer blobs have me worried because they are dirt cheap.

According to some sources regarding the play testing, new points are an internal balance for an army, not an external one between armies, so equivalent points doesn't mean much to me at this point.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 ClockworkZion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Median Trace wrote:
Most Space Marine units are going to die to a round of a 20-strong genestealer assault. Screening units will be important. I think the dual heavy flamer land speeder might be a great tool against this types of horde units.

If it takes twenty models to kill units of ten, then I'm okay with this.
How many points each unit costs is what is important to me. Ork Boyz hordes and Gaunt or Stealer blobs have me worried because they are dirt cheap.

According to some sources regarding the play testing, new points are an internal balance for an army, not an external one between armies, so equivalent points doesn't mean much to me at this point.


It is how the game plays though.

Nids are scary strong. They have all the bases covered, with things other armies can't do
   
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stratigo wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Median Trace wrote:
Most Space Marine units are going to die to a round of a 20-strong genestealer assault. Screening units will be important. I think the dual heavy flamer land speeder might be a great tool against this types of horde units.

If it takes twenty models to kill units of ten, then I'm okay with this.
How many points each unit costs is what is important to me. Ork Boyz hordes and Gaunt or Stealer blobs have me worried because they are dirt cheap.

According to some sources regarding the play testing, new points are an internal balance for an army, not an external one between armies, so equivalent points doesn't mean much to me at this point.


It is how the game plays though.

Nids are scary strong. They have all the bases covered, with things other armies can't do

They look balanced. Their units are pretty much based around to being dedicated to single tasks. Biggest buff they got is how fast they are. Playing against them is a lot like the lore honestly.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Indiana

Honestly most of the nids and the orks strength comes from people not having to play or design around hordes for nearly 10 years or more. Once we get used to hordes again it will be a different animal.

Also we need to rethink our thinking. I am shifting to a focus on "which weapons I want" and "best way to deliver those weapons/the chassis"

So I am looking at twin assault cannons as a solid weapon to have good volume of fire and would be helpful at clearing out horde models,

Same with hurricane bolters

People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer

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 ClockworkZion wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
What are the combos right now? Are there any must take units or ones people are really liking?


Choppy or Shooty?


The current SM index can't do choppy. It lacks good dedicated assault units for dealing with anything but big gribblies. Thunderhamers will punk a tank, but do very little to, say, 30 hormagaunts.

Vanguard Vets can get an hilarious number of attacks. Twin chainswords are an option and that gives a unit of 5 21 attacks. 10 models get 41 attacks. Run them without Jump Packs with Grimaldus to gain an extra 6.8 attacks on average for a whopping 47.8 attacks from a unit that only runs 160 points for the squad, and 280 with Grimaldus tagging along.

So there is SOME choppy, but don't expect it to take down the biggest things through melee, just tear through hordes like a blender full of Rippers set to "puree".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
stratigo wrote:
 Crazyterran wrote:
So, Aura effects also affect the model that brings the Aura, right?

So does Guilliman reroll hits and wounds?


With the rules as written, he certainly does

GW has confirmed it. He's an Ultramarine, so he benefits from his own rule.


When I did my quick napkin math, I didn't realize you could double up on chainswords. But even then with Grimaldus and double chainswords, they die in one round of attacks to the 20-man genestealer blob. I believe the genestealer blob is only 220 points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/10 23:05:56


 
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:

They look balanced. Their units are pretty much based around to being dedicated to single tasks. Biggest buff they got is how fast they are. Playing against them is a lot like the lore honestly.


Specialized units do better than generalists. Especially since speed means they minimize drastically the time where their melee specialists are not in their preferred environment. Space marines alone I don't think can beat a well balanced need list. You'll need to bring other IoM units to block off positions before you are over run.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Leth wrote:
Honestly most of the nids and the orks strength comes from people not having to play or design around hordes for nearly 10 years or more. Once we get used to hordes again it will be a different animal.

Also we need to rethink our thinking. I am shifting to a focus on "which weapons I want" and "best way to deliver those weapons/the chassis"

So I am looking at twin assault cannons as a solid weapon to have good volume of fire and would be helpful at clearing out horde models,

Same with hurricane bolters


Know what killed hordes before? Templates. Templates everywhere murdered hordes. We no longer have templates. Hordes are thus making a VENGEFUL resurgence. Templates can't even, with a maximized roll, hit nearly as much as they used to.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/10 23:18:08


 
   
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Median Trace wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
What are the combos right now? Are there any must take units or ones people are really liking?


Choppy or Shooty?


The current SM index can't do choppy. It lacks good dedicated assault units for dealing with anything but big gribblies. Thunderhamers will punk a tank, but do very little to, say, 30 hormagaunts.

Vanguard Vets can get an hilarious number of attacks. Twin chainswords are an option and that gives a unit of 5 21 attacks. 10 models get 41 attacks. Run them without Jump Packs with Grimaldus to gain an extra 6.8 attacks on average for a whopping 47.8 attacks from a unit that only runs 160 points for the squad, and 280 with Grimaldus tagging along.

So there is SOME choppy, but don't expect it to take down the biggest things through melee, just tear through hordes like a blender full of Rippers set to "puree".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
stratigo wrote:
 Crazyterran wrote:
So, Aura effects also affect the model that brings the Aura, right?

So does Guilliman reroll hits and wounds?


With the rules as written, he certainly does

GW has confirmed it. He's an Ultramarine, so he benefits from his own rule.


When I did my quick napkin math, I didn't realize you could double up on chainswords. But even then with Grimaldus and double chainswords, they die in one round of attacks to the 20-man genestealer blob. I believe the genestealer blob is only 220 points.

They can swap their bolt pistol and chainsword for two items from the pistol or melee weapon lists. Double chainswords are an option.

In this sort of fight, the Marines may survive if they fight first, if they fight second they are definitely dead unless dice go funny (as they do sometimes).
   
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Indiana

Templates only killed hordes because of the rules of the game back then. With the current edition and removing whatever models you want templates wouldn't kill anything more than they do now. Just spread out like you used to and keep charging forward.

People's models and units have been optimized for a different game for a long time. Twin assaultcannons drop hordes, heavy bolters on marines are good against hordes.

Got to adapt instead of complain.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/10 23:28:23


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stratigo wrote:
 Coyote81 wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
What are the combos right now? Are there any must take units or ones people are really liking?


Choppy or Shooty?


The current SM index can't do choppy. It lacks good dedicated assault units for dealing with anything but big gribblies. Thunderhamers will punk a tank, but do very little to, say, 30 hormagaunts.


I disagree, I believe Vangaurd Vets with chainssword do a fairly good job, especially with storm shield for a cheap 5pts a pop. A chaplin lets you reroll all your failed hits and a Librarian can give you unit +1S/T/A, this will let you kill hordes of guys easily.


Have you mathed it? I like mathing verse Genestealers (As the unit I think is the best) and ork boyz


Does the unit need to be the best to be a good dedicated assault unit? Of course the genestealers are cheaper, 120 for 10 I believe they hit and wound the same as the Vanguard Vets, have one more attack while they have 10 or more models, they only have a 5++ save, where as the vangaurd vets have 3++. Movement isn't much different if you take jumppacks on VV. So 10 VV cost 230, where as 10 Genestealers cost 120, genestealers have 1 more attack while 10 or more models, VV always have a 3++ with stormshields. basically means they have 1/3 more wounds then genestealers, so it's like having 15 wounds on the unit., The VV to pay for a special deployment method. VV have a lot of weapon options, Genestealers can take a cheaper weapon and not be able to deal with armor.

Over all it's a mess, yes genestealers are better, but I don't think it's a big enough difference to say VV are not a good dedicated melee unit.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
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stratigo wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:

They look balanced. Their units are pretty much based around to being dedicated to single tasks. Biggest buff they got is how fast they are. Playing against them is a lot like the lore honestly.


Specialized units do better than generalists. Especially since speed means they minimize drastically the time where their melee specialists are not in their preferred environment. Space marines alone I don't think can beat a well balanced need list. You'll need to bring other IoM units to block off positions before you are over run.

maybe it's just me but isn't this business as usual for Marines? They never out specialize specialists.

Model and unit placement is definitely important against Nids. Defensive use of transports (deploying them as a wall close enough together that most of their unit can't charge effectively against the front while staying outside of 1" of non charged models forcing multi charges, or them to consolidate into combat) while deploying units behind them instead of in them is a small thought I've had.

Basically when the opponent is going to come to you, then you don't need to plan where to go from where you are, but rather plan for where they'll be and planning your defense appropiately.

Also if we an still buy obstacles it might be worth taking them for slowing down Nids since they can decrease movement. Same for charging through woods or craters.

Tactics aren't just a situation of mathhammering out the most effective unit build in a vacuum but developing tactics to utilize that unit to the maximum effectiveness possible.

As such we should be looking less at how good things look on paper in a perfect vaccuum and consider what tools we have in our lists, and on the table we can use to effectively play against different armies.

I'm almost positive that there is a way to deploy units in such a way that it's impossible to only charge just one while maintaining coherency (mainly so I lut out more Overwatch into the charging unit, like via a Sternguard unit at full size with Storm Bolters on everyone) but I'm still mulling that over.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
stratigo wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Honestly most of the nids and the orks strength comes from people not having to play or design around hordes for nearly 10 years or more. Once we get used to hordes again it will be a different animal.

Also we need to rethink our thinking. I am shifting to a focus on "which weapons I want" and "best way to deliver those weapons/the chassis"

So I am looking at twin assault cannons as a solid weapon to have good volume of fire and would be helpful at clearing out horde models,

Same with hurricane bolters


Know what killed hordes before? Templates. Templates everywhere murdered hordes. We no longer have templates. Hordes are thus making a VENGEFUL resurgence. Templates can't even, with a maximized roll, hit nearly as much as they used to.

Yes, we lost templates, but we gained multi shots on weapons. Some weapons even gained extra shots.

Our basic Captain makes shooting more reliable and some SCs let you reroll all to hit rolls making it devestating when compared to what somethings could do before. The Storm Bolter is probably the most buffed weapon in our entire wargear list.

We lost templates but gained Mortal Wounds which overflow, gained more reliable shooting and I feel like we can likely find ways to counter things. The game is more than just numbers in a vacuum.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Leth wrote:
Templates only killed hordes because of the rules of the game back then. With the current edition and removing whatever models you want templates wouldn't kill anything more than they do now. Just spread out like you used to and keep charging forward.

People's models and units have been optimized for a different game for a long time. Twin assaultcannons drop hordes, heavy bolters on marines are good against hordes.

Got to adapt instead of complain.

Heavy Grav looks to be a buff over the HB against hordes since it an extra shot and -3AP. Shorter range, but against Nids, or in more aggressive lists it'll regularly be in range.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/10 23:45:11


 
   
Made in ca
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 Leth wrote:
Templates only killed hordes because of the rules of the game back then. With the current edition and removing whatever models you want templates wouldn't kill anything more than they do now. Just spread out like you used to and keep charging forward.

People's models and units have been optimized for a different game for a long time. Twin assaultcannons drop hordes, heavy bolters on marines are good against hordes.

Got to adapt instead of complain.


yeha, people who built a list around killing biog death stars etc, (which we typically saw in 7th) are apt to have a lot of hard hitting guns, but not a lot of "big splashing guns" heavy bolter centurions might suddenly become a good anti horde lynchpin

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
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Indiana

BrianDavion wrote:
 Leth wrote:
Templates only killed hordes because of the rules of the game back then. With the current edition and removing whatever models you want templates wouldn't kill anything more than they do now. Just spread out like you used to and keep charging forward.

People's models and units have been optimized for a different game for a long time. Twin assaultcannons drop hordes, heavy bolters on marines are good against hordes.

Got to adapt instead of complain.


yeha, people who built a list around killing biog death stars etc, (which we typically saw in 7th) are apt to have a lot of hard hitting guns, but not a lot of "big splashing guns" heavy bolter centurions might suddenly become a good anti horde lynchpin


They are three times the cost of the heavy bolter and that is the main problem for anti hordes. We want cheap, high number of shoots on a cheaper platform.

I think that a predator autocannon with two heavy bolters is an all around pretty solid platform. The guaranteed 3 damage is pretty solid

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/11 01:58:46


People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer

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With the way a lot of stuff works now, I feel like shooting should be split into two groups:

1. Stuff for big things (like Lascannons) that have a low number of shots but high strength
2. Stuff for everything else (like Heavy Bolters) which rely more on the number of dice you throw over AP or strength

We need a mix of these two things in our list, and the second at least has a chance of working against targets the first shoots at through weight of dice while the first only kills a couple models more completely.

That said, multi damage wapons might be the best anti-FnP setup since you have to take that test to shrug off the unsaved wounds against each of those unsaved wounds, not just one, increasing the odds that something dies.
   
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 Leth wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Leth wrote:
Templates only killed hordes because of the rules of the game back then. With the current edition and removing whatever models you want templates wouldn't kill anything more than they do now. Just spread out like you used to and keep charging forward.

People's models and units have been optimized for a different game for a long time. Twin assaultcannons drop hordes, heavy bolters on marines are good against hordes.

Got to adapt instead of complain.


yeha, people who built a list around killing biog death stars etc, (which we typically saw in 7th) are apt to have a lot of hard hitting guns, but not a lot of "big splashing guns" heavy bolter centurions might suddenly become a good anti horde lynchpin


They are three times the cost of the heavy bolter and that is the main problem for anti hordes. We want cheap, high number of shoots on a cheaper platform.

I think that a predator autocannon with two heavy bolters is an all around pretty solid platform. The guaranteed 3 damage is pretty solid


what about whirlwinds with castellian launchers? 115 points for a unit capable of dealing damage to 2-12 units. that should be eneugh to shatter squads reasonably easy.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
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A single grav cannon may better and more versatile than a heavy bolter, but you can get 3 heavy bolters for that price. And if you already have lascannons in your list, then it seems like a devastator squad of 4 heavy bolters is a way more effective horde mower than a single grav cannon in a tactical squad.
But, I would ALWAYS run 1 Plasma Cannon in each devastator squad now, seeing as you can use the Signum ability from the sergeant on them each turn, and then you're effectively shooting supercharged shots all game with small risk of being slain.

One other nifty thing for VV's is that since you can now allocate which model is receiving the wound, why not give one or two guys in the squad a chainsword and storm shield? This way they are a cheap model in the unit that takes all the -ap shots and uses their invulnerable save. So the other guys with the plasma pistols & power weapons/thunder hammers are surviving longer and able to dish it out while the cheap storm shield guys take the hits. increases survivability while still being able to bring the pain.
   
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Don't get too attached to double chainswords. It's a wierd setup, so it might not stick round in the codex or via FAQ
   
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Double Plasma Pistols are currently an option too.

That said I'm not getting too attached to anything, but I rather hope the ability to double down like that stays. It looks like a fun way to build some really interesting VV squads that can bring out the character of a chapter based on what you build them for.

That said, after reading a summary of someone's 8th edition game, apparently Terminators feel properly awesome. Drop them into Rapid Fire range on a target and unload the hurt with the buffed Storm Bolters. Cyclones were also apparently pretty good.

And apparently since they can actually swing with their Power Fists at a reasonable speed on the charge they feel more awesome to use to punch things.

Nice to hear they feel "right" finally.

Still won't be running an all Terminator List anytume soon, but it's nice to know.
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
Double Plasma Pistols are currently an option too.

hm, starting to think what VV's with a jump captain could do with those...
can you fire pistols instead of a cc weapon? like, I know you can shoot pistols in the shooting phase when in cc, but can you use them instead of your inherent 'melee weapon/sidearm' that each model comes with? and then fire two pistols in each round of the fight phase?
   
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Sioux Falls, SD

 benlac wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Double Plasma Pistols are currently an option too.

hm, starting to think what VV's with a jump captain could do with those...
can you fire pistols instead of a cc weapon? like, I know you can shoot pistols in the shooting phase when in cc, but can you use them instead of your inherent 'melee weapon/sidearm' that each model comes with? and then fire two pistols in each round of the fight phase?
No. You can only fire them in the shooting phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The more I think about it, the fact that I have six Elites and two HQs, I think I would be better served by taking two Vanguard Detachments instead of a Battalion. For one less CP, I can forgo my Troops altogether. This would save me 380 pts to spend on stuff. I would get two Twin Assault Cannon Razorbacks for 105 a piece. That would leave me with 170 pts for stuff. If I wanted, I could still take my two Combi-Flamer/Flamer Tactical Squads. That would hit the 2000 pts right on the dot. It would have a ton better shooting at the low low price of a Command Point (which I have to fight to remember to use...). I could always get a Venerable Dreadnought as well. I would like to find space for a Primaris Lieutenant, but I don't really want to take just him. It really stinks that the price of Inceptors shot up, because I would actually really like to use a squad of them (literally some of the most Crimson Fists-esque units EVER).

Any thoughts on what to do with those extra 170 pts? As of right now, I am leaning toward just keeping the Tactical Squads.

And I almost what should have been the obvious choice, a second squad of Devastators, this time with Missile Launchers to go with my Lascannon Devastators. They can take care of hordes better than the Combi-Flamer/Flamer Tactical Squad (but probably not as good as two Tactical Squads). Add in the fact they can supplement the vehicle busting of the Lascannon Devs, they seem like a logical fit. It even gives me the extra four points I need to pay the points for the Storm Bolters that are glued on my Rhinobacks! Maximum shooting!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/11 07:24:41


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30K 2500 pts 
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
Double Plasma Pistols are currently an option too.

That said I'm not getting too attached to anything, but I rather hope the ability to double down like that stays. It looks like a fun way to build some really interesting VV squads that can bring out the character of a chapter based on what you build them for.

That said, after reading a summary of someone's 8th edition game, apparently Terminators feel properly awesome. Drop them into Rapid Fire range on a target and unload the hurt with the buffed Storm Bolters. Cyclones were also apparently pretty good.

And apparently since they can actually swing with their Power Fists at a reasonable speed on the charge they feel more awesome to use to punch things.

Nice to hear they feel "right" finally.

Still won't be running an all Terminator List anytume soon, but it's nice to know.


No lie, I am still salty over their change to Terminators from 5th edition.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





stratigo wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Double Plasma Pistols are currently an option too.

That said I'm not getting too attached to anything, but I rather hope the ability to double down like that stays. It looks like a fun way to build some really interesting VV squads that can bring out the character of a chapter based on what you build them for.

That said, after reading a summary of someone's 8th edition game, apparently Terminators feel properly awesome. Drop them into Rapid Fire range on a target and unload the hurt with the buffed Storm Bolters. Cyclones were also apparently pretty good.

And apparently since they can actually swing with their Power Fists at a reasonable speed on the charge they feel more awesome to use to punch things.

Nice to hear they feel "right" finally.

Still won't be running an all Terminator List anytume soon, but it's nice to know.


No lie, I am still salty over their change to Terminators from 5th edition.


what was the change from 5th edition? I don't recall

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BrianDavion wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Double Plasma Pistols are currently an option too.

That said I'm not getting too attached to anything, but I rather hope the ability to double down like that stays. It looks like a fun way to build some really interesting VV squads that can bring out the character of a chapter based on what you build them for.

That said, after reading a summary of someone's 8th edition game, apparently Terminators feel properly awesome. Drop them into Rapid Fire range on a target and unload the hurt with the buffed Storm Bolters. Cyclones were also apparently pretty good.

And apparently since they can actually swing with their Power Fists at a reasonable speed on the charge they feel more awesome to use to punch things.

Nice to hear they feel "right" finally.

Still won't be running an all Terminator List anytume soon, but it's nice to know.


No lie, I am still salty over their change to Terminators from 5th edition.



what was the change from 5th edition? I don't recall



You can only take 1 heavy weapon per 5 models, where as before you could take 2 in 5 men. My termies are modeled with a cylcone and a assault cannon. Haven't been able to use them since

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/11 08:25:40


 
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 benlac wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Double Plasma Pistols are currently an option too.

hm, starting to think what VV's with a jump captain could do with those...
can you fire pistols instead of a cc weapon? like, I know you can shoot pistols in the shooting phase when in cc, but can you use them instead of your inherent 'melee weapon/sidearm' that each model comes with? and then fire two pistols in each round of the fight phase?
No. You can only fire them in the shooting phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The more I think about it, the fact that I have six Elites and two HQs, I think I would be better served by taking two Vanguard Detachments instead of a Battalion. For one less CP, I can forgo my Troops altogether. This would save me 380 pts to spend on stuff. I would get two Twin Assault Cannon Razorbacks for 105 a piece. That would leave me with 170 pts for stuff. If I wanted, I could still take my two Combi-Flamer/Flamer Tactical Squads. That would hit the 2000 pts right on the dot. It would have a ton better shooting at the low low price of a Command Point (which I have to fight to remember to use...). I could always get a Venerable Dreadnought as well. I would like to find space for a Primaris Lieutenant, but I don't really want to take just him. It really stinks that the price of Inceptors shot up, because I would actually really like to use a squad of them (literally some of the most Crimson Fists-esque units EVER).

Any thoughts on what to do with those extra 170 pts? As of right now, I am leaning toward just keeping the Tactical Squads.

And I almost what should have been the obvious choice, a second squad of Devastators, this time with Missile Launchers to go with my Lascannon Devastators. They can take care of hordes better than the Combi-Flamer/Flamer Tactical Squad (but probably not as good as two Tactical Squads). Add in the fact they can supplement the vehicle busting of the Lascannon Devs, they seem like a logical fit. It even gives me the extra four points I need to pay the points for the Storm Bolters that are glued on my Rhinobacks! Maximum shooting!


100 points for Assbacks. Unless you are including the Stormbolter Price?

If fast units moving assault units becomes a thing, maybe Tac Marines with Flamers/Combi-Flamers could stand in front amd catch a charge? Or Assault Marines with a pair of flamers. 85 Points for the tactical marines, Jump Assault Marines with the flamers are 98. 83 without. The Jump Packs, if you survive, will let you hoof it and shoot.

Assuming they charge within 8" to get decent odds of making it, its about 4 dead stealers according to my napkin math, which isnt great, but if they soak the original charge and leave a bunch of bugs in front of your guns...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/11 12:21:05


 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

Crap, you're right! I was adding them to the Rhino price, not the Razorback price(why are these even different?!). There's two Armourium Cherubs for me.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
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