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Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine




 labmouse42 wrote:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
It's exactly for spamming smite. How many games have you played where you cast smite 10+ times a turn? Genuinely, I'd love to read about your experience doing that.
I mentioned the 9 DP with Be'Lakor list. That list was throwing out 10 smites a turn plus Be'Lakor adding in Infernal Gaze for fun.

How did it work? Stunningly well. My opponent started hating the psychic phase as much as my previous opponents in 7th edition. Delivering ~20 mortal wounds a round is just crazy.
The amount of damage it can do is just staggering.
The best thing...you can do that while within 1" of enemy models. So my 10 princes were swinging 70 STR 7, AP -2, Dmg 2 attacks per phase, plus dealing 20 mortal wounds a turn on top of that. The reality is that I lost 1-2 princes before getting into claw range with my opponents, but it was still great.

Edit : What this really helped with was cutting trough targets I had a hard time dealing with. When I had to deal with some dreads, 4 princes hitting them with smite and claws took them out really quickly. If someone brought knights, I would do the same. Swarm on them on a cloud of locusts and smite the crap out of the knight before assaulting it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
zephel wrote:
Did you take Chaos Daemon princes or did you take Csm prince. I assume you took three of those HQ detachments and all of them were using wings/ malefic claws with be'lakor using warptime on himself?
Daemon princes. The FNP is far to good. It gives the princes effectively 15 wounds.
Be'Lakor is not a Heretic Astartes unit. He cannot cast warptime on himself.
His role was just to smash everything into bits, and he did that very well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
That sounds really useless, especially since you have to target the closest unit. Using your psychic phase to cast smite instead of the powers that make us harder to hit or able to attack twice in a turn doesn't sound worth it at all.
What's why I would run DPs or Slaanesh Heralds in Exalted Chariots for my smite spam.
The smite is the extra secret sauce that does more damage to boost the damage of the units proper.


I'ma have to try this one out as I have the models to try this out. wonder if it would work at 1500 as well.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

Not a large issue, but if you could edit your post, Labmouse. Your final quote is my name stating smite is useless, which is an inaccurate quote.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

So how are you guys getting the most out of Smite? It has to target the closest enemy unit, so it doesn't seem like you'd often get to use it on useful targets (against a competent opponent anyway)

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

With the speed of most Tzeentch units, you can position yourself relatively well, as well.

However, yes. Smite is countered by horde armies. Which is entirely fair and valid for it to have that counter.

If someone is placing tactical Marines in the way, go for it. Happy to kill them all. Comes down to what you're up against.

Elite armies, however, it shreds.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






A Protoss colony world

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Cover does not effect invulnerable saves

Ah, ok. Well, a Bloodthirster will still get an improved save against small arms, which before would really give him fits since he only had to fail 5 3+ saves to die. Big guns are going to be a problem, but if they are shooting at Big Bad Bloodthirster, they aren't shooting at the rest of the army. Maybe they are best taken in multiples?

My armies (re-counted and updated on 1/27/19, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~11200 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~1300 | Space Wolves: ~3400
Inquisition: ~300 | Officio Assassinorum: ~500 | Imperial Knights: ~800 | Talons of the Emperor: ~500
Tau Empire: ~6200 | Chaos Space Marines (various legions): ~8100 | Death Guard: ~2800 | Chaos Daemons (all types): ~2100
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2018: 134 | Total models painted in 2019: 27 | Current main painting project: Space Wolves Wulfen
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh





 labmouse42 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
That sounds really useless, especially since you have to target the closest unit. Using your psychic phase to cast smite instead of the powers that make us harder to hit or able to attack twice in a turn doesn't sound worth it at all.
What's why I would run DPs or Slaanesh Heralds in Exalted Chariots for my smite spam.
The smite is the extra secret sauce that does more damage to boost the damage of the units proper.
Does the superior impact hits rule, make you favor the exalted chariot over the regular one, since I would have figured not having a degrading stat line and being a character under 10 wounds to have been massive boons in favor of a regular chariot herald, over an exalted chariot herald.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/12 01:33:40


 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Rydria wrote:
 labmouse42 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
That sounds really useless, especially since you have to target the closest unit. Using your psychic phase to cast smite instead of the powers that make us harder to hit or able to attack twice in a turn doesn't sound worth it at all.
What's why I would run DPs or Slaanesh Heralds in Exalted Chariots for my smite spam.
The smite is the extra secret sauce that does more damage to boost the damage of the units proper.
Does the superior impact hits rule, make you favor the exalted chariot over the regular one, since I would have figured not having a degrading stat line and being a character under 10 wounds to have been massive boons in favor of a regular chariot herald, over an exalted chariot herald.
That's a good point. Normal seeker chariots can still hide.
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






 ZergSmasher wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
Cover does not effect invulnerable saves

Ah, ok. Well, a Bloodthirster will still get an improved save against small arms, which before would really give him fits since he only had to fail 5 3+ saves to die. Big guns are going to be a problem, but if they are shooting at Big Bad Bloodthirster, they aren't shooting at the rest of the army. Maybe they are best taken in multiples?


Well the only reason to take big guns is to shoot big dudes. That's how 8th ed is balanced. The problem is that the daemon big dudes die too fast before they do too much. Other big dudes either can do stuff from range or are faster/more suvivable

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/12 04:09:29


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Quick question - would the Changelings -1 to hit aura work with Magnus? I'd like to continue to find ways to make him more survivable when I don't have turn 1 go first as he is a giant target. LOS blocking terrain is not always an option in all games. Anything else that could add to his survivability?
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Slagmar wrote:
Quick question - would the Changelings -1 to hit aura work with Magnus? I'd like to continue to find ways to make him more survivable when I don't have turn 1 go first as he is a giant target. LOS blocking terrain is not always an option in all games. Anything else that could add to his survivability?

Works

Also trimming this down bit by bit. Flamers just see better elites, so I tossed the crushers

Thinking of tossing the khorne start collecting, but it has 3 things I don't have yet: herald, crushers, cannon :thinking:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/12 05:36:34


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut





I would kick the Startcollecting Khorne Daemons Box, so you save 65€.

You can always buy them later or invest the 65€ in something other.


Btw. Made a list with my available Daemonprinces and Belakor.

I only have 7 of them and all equipped with Swords, one with Axe and one with Talons .

So if i take them in two Supreme Command Detachments that would be around 1700 Points.

Command Detachment:
1x Belakor
3x Prince with Wings and Sword/Talon

Command Detachment:
2x Prince with Wings and Sword/Talon
1x Prince with Wings and Axe
1x Prince with Wings and Double Talons

So what should i do with my last 300 Points? Could take 10 Flamers of Tzeentch or a Helldrake. Plaguebearers or Cultists for objective camping or screening.

Or i could try to fit in a Renegade Knight?

Any suggestions, also how do you think will it fare against the other armies out there? (I know double Talons is optimal, but they are modelld this way, so i have to stick with them)
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




 Darksider wrote:


Command Detachment:
1x Belakor
3x Prince with Wings and Sword/Talon

Command Detachment:
2x Prince with Wings and Sword/Talon
1x Prince with Wings and Axe
1x Prince with Wings and Double Talons


Would it make sense to take some CSM and some CD princes?

Also what is our cheapest, most durable screen that can keep up with princes?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




mahddoc wrote:


Also what is our cheapest, most durable screen that can keep up with princes?

Furies are cheapest minimum, but not as good W/point.
Seekers are a bit more but better W/point and faster
Fiends are a bit more wounds per point but fancier

DFTT 
   
Made in fr
Cloud of Flies




I find some point costs confusing. For example the Demon Prince.

If i undestand well one DP costs 170 points with wings but without wargear.

If i buy a hellforged sword and a set of malefic talons i must add 42 point to the cost and the DP makes 5 attacks with S7, AP-2, D2.

But if i buy two sets of malefic talons, it only cost only 10 points. And if i undesrstand well the DP can make 7 attacks with them.

The only way i can think that this make sense is if i am forced to buy the hellforged sword for 42 points and then exchange it for a second set of talons for 10 additionals points, making the DP cost 222 points. But this is not explicity said, so i´m not sure how i am supposed to calculate the points.

Simplifying: a DP with two sets of talons and wings costs 180 points or 222 points?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/12 19:44:29


 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






No. The claws are just that much better. Tested game guys :^)

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




180 it's just poorly balanced.

DFTT 
   
Made in fr
Cloud of Flies




rvd1ofakind wrote:No. The claws are just that much better. Tested game guys :^)


Captyn_Bob wrote:180 it's just poorly balanced.


Thanks


   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Talamare wrote:
I'm thinking...

Tyranids: +++
Necrons: Even
Orks: ++
Imperial Guard: ++
Genestealer Cult: +
Eldar: - - -
Dark Eldar: +
Space Marines: - -
Primaris +++
Grey Knights: -
Blood Angels: even
Space Wolves: even
Dark Angels: - -
Tau: -
Daemons: - - -
Chaos Space Marines: -
This is the prevailing opinion of Chaos Daemons.
There is good reason for this. Summoning has been nurfed and is near useless in it's current form.
A lot of the 'good' units have changed. People are looking at piles of horrors and screamers and saying 'meh'. Now there is a rush to pick up seeker chariots.

Take every edge we can get.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/12 20:19:07


 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






1500 pts Batrep and thoughts

Daemons:
+3
KoS
Masque
20 Daemonettes
10 brims
10 brims 1 blue (with 2 pts in reserve)
3 nurglings
3 Flamers
1 Fiend
Heldrake

+1
be'lakor
DP claws wings
Herald of slaanesh on chariot

Tyranids:
30 shooty gaunts 10 long range
15(?) genestealers
15(?) genestealers
2 genestealer hqs to buff them
2 carnifexes
1 hive crone
3 screechers (I think)
2 biovores
2 biovores

So he got turn 1 despite us using the soon to become tournament rule of roll-off with a +1 to the faster deployed army. And he picked the side. We played relic so nothing matters except the objective in the middle.
Turn 1 he took it with screechers and ran away behind his horde. Then moved towards me while firing. His Hive Crone flew into my base and missed everything then charged and missed again (Masque ^.^)
My Turn 1: I killed the Crone with KoS and smite spam and moved forward a bit. And I did a silly thing of sending my heldrake into the screechers with the objective. Who killed 1 of them but then was surrounded by genestealers.
His turn 2 was the drake dying already, killed 2 deamonettes and reducing power and some brims.
My turn 2 was some bad dice rolls. Daemonettes charged the left over genestealers, as did the chariot. Basicly 18 daemonettes lost to 10 stealers (and continued to lose every battle from then on despite having a pretty sizeable numbers advantage).
Then basicly what happened was they the carnifexes charged the KoS, genestealers flanked me through my nurglings, brimstones, flamers who all did next to nothing. So then the big fight was: genestealers and carnifexes vs brims, chariot, KoS and Mask. And then the str of Slaanesh became apparent - striking first despite the opponent charging. So the survivors of the melee were: masque(on 1 wound), KoS(on 2 wounds), chariot (full hp due to smart possitioning he had to attack brimstones). His 1 carnifex ran away.
Be'lakor tried to kill an HQ, perilsed twice in a row (Re-rolled 1) and then died to stolen innitiative from that one HQ who did like 9 damage after saves??? k. The DP on the other hand won (tied) me the game: he alone killed both squads of biovores, finished of the screechers and got the objective. But his gaunts were in base contact with it after fight. So we're not sure who won: should his gaunts pick up the thing since they're infantry? But DP was covering it with his base so he was closer? So all in we quickly called it a draw.

Thoughts on some units:
Masque (a must for any <DAEMONETTE> army due to the buff, mobility but not rlly damage :p)
KoS (actually insane damage, the aura helped a lot. Worth it tbh since its not THAT expensive. Killed 1 and wounded 1 Carnifex and killed the Hive Crone)
DP(YES. It's INSANE)
Be'lakor(I fudged up)
Heldrake(I fudged up but damage seems bad)
Brimstone(Really good. For 20 points held up a 160 pts unit for like 3 turns? Yes please)
herald chariot (aura is REALLY important with 3 str daemonettes, solid stats too)
Nurglins(bad. You will go 2nd most of the time so their ability is just easy first blood for the opponent and they just ignore 2 damage)
Daemonettes(look bad by comparison to genestealers which is unfortunate)
Fiend(died from full to 2 biovore overwatch. 66 into 65 :x but really fast)
Genestealers - feth that gak
Genestealer HQ - definitelly feth that gak. Ridiculous damage, like 3 auras, just pffftwhydoesitcostsolittle.
Carnifex - bad
Chrone - he fudged up
Biovores - solid-ish
Screechers - fast
gaunts with guns - actually pretty BS. Need shooting against them real bad. Charging into 50 overwatch shots? Nope.

All in all Slaanesh seems bad. And then you get into fights and hit first and you're like "um... it's actually not awful". I got a draw despite making some bad decisions and having a bad list due to the models I have. DP - MVP easily.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, flamers. Did feth all due to my bad rolls and his insane invul saves. Like 6 out of 8 :/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thoughts on next lists(2k) and what models to buy:
+9
KoS
Herald on Steed
Masque
5x 8 brims 2 blue (4 pts in reserve)
30 daemonettes instrument
2x 5 seekers
8 seekers with instrument
3x 3 flamers
3 chariots (1 exalted)
1 DP

or

+3
Herald on steed
Masque
3x 10 brims
9 brims 1 blue
30 daemonetes instrument
2x 6 seekers
2x 4 flamers
Exalted chariot

+1
Be'lakor
3x DP claws wings

or

+3
Herald on steed
Masque
3x 10 brims
9 brims 1 blue
30 daemonetes instrument
13 seekers instrument
5 seekers
2x 4 flamers
exalted chariot
Be'lakor
MAGNUS

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/13 03:27:43


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine




So I did not realize how gnarly effective skabrand is. The ability to not let anything fall back within 8inchs is so powerful. Effectively being able to have skarbrand pile in and consolidate around units to better position himself for the next charge.

Last game I had I jsed 20 seekers in sets of 10 to run up and tie up a unit and that gave time for skarbrand to come in. And seeing skarbrand deal 26 wounds to a landraider was impressive.

Granted I used him in a fun horde list for kicks and plan on tryinf him with 6 DPs of nurgle to give them more attacks as well and have more equal threats to offer. This is at 1500 pts. At 2k it is 9 + skarbrand. Thanks to labmouse btw, I tried his list concept abd wws amazed. Granted will probably only use for tournament play and not casual stuff as it is a bit rough. Again, daemon lists are ethier extreme or lack luster with no real in-between >_>
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

The minor characters like Skarbrand, Changeling and the Masque all appear very powerful.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 Cephalobeard wrote:
The minor characters like Skarbrand, Changeling and the Masque all appear very powerful.

Well, they were crap in 7E, so that makes sense. GW has to sell all that back stock.

I'm rather glad that Belakor is good.
I had a friend try out Flesh Hounds and he says the AP -1 of their attacks is pretty sweet. And they are pretty much always Str5, whether charging or being charged, or in range of a Herald.

   
Made in ru
Navigator





Is Belakor really that good in daemon list? I mean, with his cost, inability to cast adequate psychic powers and no god-specific rules he seems just too shabby.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/14 21:50:32


"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett © 
   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine




Yeah he is funny enough. He is able to add on to stacking mortal wounds, pretty durable with a re-roll invul (and if you give em the 6+ fnp warlord trait). And like all the daemon princes, no slouch in close combat. The big thing is also the fact that he can't be targeted because of having 8 wounds.
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






 Vexler wrote:
Is Belakor really that good in daemon list? I mean, with his cost, inability to cast adequate psychic powers and no god-specific rules he seems just too shabby.

re-roll 1 to hit for ALL deamons?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
The minor characters like Skarbrand, Changeling and the Masque all appear very powerful.


Yeah, I wouldn't call Skarbrand "Minor"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
zephel wrote:
So I did not realize how gnarly effective skabrand is. The ability to not let anything fall back within 8inchs is so powerful. Effectively being able to have skarbrand pile in and consolidate around units to better position himself for the next charge.

Last game I had I jsed 20 seekers in sets of 10 to run up and tie up a unit and that gave time for skarbrand to come in. And seeing skarbrand deal 26 wounds to a landraider was impressive.

Granted I used him in a fun horde list for kicks and plan on tryinf him with 6 DPs of nurgle to give them more attacks as well and have more equal threats to offer. This is at 1500 pts. At 2k it is 9 + skarbrand. Thanks to labmouse btw, I tried his list concept abd wws amazed. Granted will probably only use for tournament play and not casual stuff as it is a bit rough. Again, daemon lists are ethier extreme or lack luster with no real in-between >_>


The problem with Skarbrand is that it's the only character that can actually be tarpited. Or just go up against a horde, which he would lose.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/15 02:39:02


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine




That I agree with i that he can easily get bogged down, That's why ideally in the list concept the dp's will help with easing that. Skarbrand in my opinion is more of a force multiplier over jsut a sheer powerhouse.
   
Made in se
Guarding Guardian




Northern Sweden

Decided to make a quick list for CSM that are affected by daemon auras.

HQ:
Lord on Chaos God Mount
Sorcerer on Chaos God Mount
Daemon Prince

Elite:
Possessed
Mutilators

Fast Attack:
Warp Talons
Foetid Bloat Drone

Flyer:
Heldrake

Heavy Attack:
Obliterators
Forgefiend
Maulerfiend
Defiler

LoW:

Khorne Lord of Skulls
Magnus the Red

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/15 15:32:50


''There’s only one true path in life – the path that leads to war''
-Mauryon of Biel-tan 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

 Vexler wrote:


 Cephalobeard wrote:
The minor characters like Skarbrand, Changeling and the Masque all appear very powerful.


Yeah, I wouldn't call Skarbrand "Minor"



Okay. I would. Outside of fluff he may has well not have existed the past few years.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/15 16:45:05


Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut



Berlin

 labmouse42 wrote:

Daemon princes. The FNP is far to good. It gives the princes effectively 15 wounds.


I guess I'm missing something, but how do the DPs get FNP?

   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





Mutter wrote:
 labmouse42 wrote:

Daemon princes. The FNP is far to good. It gives the princes effectively 15 wounds.


I guess I'm missing something, but how do the DPs get FNP?


Daemons' DPs get their god's daemon rule so Nurgle gets disgustingly resilient
   
 
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