Switch Theme:

Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
 Vexler wrote:
Is Belakor really that good in daemon list? I mean, with his cost, inability to cast adequate psychic powers and no god-specific rules he seems just too shabby.

re-roll 1 to hit for ALL deamons?

Exactly. other DPs only give a bonus to their alignment. Belakor gives the bonus to ALL friendlies. And he cannot be targeted unless he is the closest.
And he can summon any unit, not just units of the same alignment
Belakor is a decent beatstick that isn't hidered by needing to build a certain type of Daemon list.

That's really my biggest complaint about this edition of Daemons. As an Undivided player, it is now really hard to make an "optimized" list that includes at least 20% of each alignment in every list.
I really am better off focusing on 1-2 of the same alignment to maximize all the bonuses given by Heralds, DPs and GDs.
Belakor is (pun-intended) a god-send for my kind of playstyle

-

   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut



Berlin

 CrownAxe wrote:

Daemons' DPs get their god's daemon rule so Nurgle gets disgustingly resilient


Ah, yes, thanks. D'oh ...
Somehow I had in my head that they were Slaneesh.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Wyrlock wrote:
Decided to make a quick list for CSM that are affected by daemon auras.

HQ:
Lord on Chaos God Mount
Sorcerer on Chaos God Mount
Daemon Prince

Elite:
Possessed
Mutilators

Fast Attack:
Warp Talons
Foetid Bloat Drone

Flyer:
Heldrake

Heavy Attack:
Obliterators
Forgefiend
Maulerfiend
Defiler

LoW:

Khorne Lord of Skulls
Magnus the Red
great piece of info. Thanks for sharing
Possessed getting a STR bonus from a Herald is very nice

The daemon engines also can benefit quite well.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/15 18:17:47


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





An issue I've been noticing with Daemons is that to make a list that seems like it could do some damage, I inevitably have a really high drop count (due to chariots, heralds, monsters, etc), or have units with massive footprints that are going to be totally unwieldy.

I really wish things like seeker chariots came in units of 1-3 and heralds had a rule similar to the carnifex - deployed as one unit, but act separately otherwise.
   
Made in ru
Navigator





Goddamn, now I'm really thinking about 10 daemon princes army (either with or w/o Belakor) for 2k, but looking at orks and guard I'm really wondering - how they will perform against swarm armies? One DP costs as much as 25 ork boyz (roughly), and they will mathematically will deal around 15 wounds in a single HtH phase (damn this base 4 str!)

"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett © 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

While the "10 Daemon Prince" army, similar to the "10 Commander" army for Tau may be strong for now, I'd be careful before buying 10 of them, as we know we're getting codexes in the future. That said, I definitely have bought, built and am painting 10 Disc Heralds and 10 Exalted flamers, haha

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Vexler wrote:
Goddamn, now I'm really thinking about 10 daemon princes army (either with or w/o Belakor) for 2k, but looking at orks and guard I'm really wondering - how they will perform against swarm armies? One DP costs as much as 25 ork boyz (roughly), and they will mathematically will deal around 15 wounds in a single HtH phase (damn this base 4 str!)
The princes, before taking wounds will be throwing this per round
70 STR 7, AP-2, Dmg 2 attacks. They are hitting 35/36 of the time, wounding 2/3 of the time, and not giving a save. That's a damage per point ratio to orks of 39.76. It's not the best. A taurox prime has a 10.28 (arguably the best weapon in the game)
On top of that, the DPs are dealing ~20 mortal wounds a round. That's where ratio's get a bit wonky, because mortal wounds are a whole different ball park. They ignore invuln saves, etc. A good estimate is that, with the smite spam, you can expect to have a ratio of 29 vs Orks. It's a little worse than CSM with bolters.

What makes the DPs nasty is they are hard to hurt. Their resilience per point (RPP) values are off the hook. Vs bolters they are a 0.8866995074 where even 4 point guard are a 1.176470588. That, combined with the small footprint and mobility make for a very nice package.

They all can also summon. The big drawback of summoning -- the fact that it keeps you from moving -- in not an issue when you are locked in assault.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
While the "10 Daemon Prince" army, similar to the "10 Commander" army for Tau may be strong for now, I'd be careful before buying 10 of them, as we know we're getting codexes in the future. That said, I definitely have bought, built and am painting 10 Disc Heralds and 10 Exalted flamers, haha
Truth!

While you can buy DPs for about 25 bucks a pop through ebay or other sources, unless you already have a bunch (I have 7) it's not worth your investment. It's a safe bet they will be hit hard with the nurf bat.
The army also has some hard issues with objectives. There is a lot to be said about having units to just squat on objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Raulengrin wrote:
An issue I've been noticing with Daemons is that to make a list that seems like it could do some damage, I inevitably have a really high drop count (due to chariots, heralds, monsters, etc), or have units with massive footprints that are going to be totally unwieldy.

I really wish things like seeker chariots came in units of 1-3 and heralds had a rule similar to the carnifex - deployed as one unit, but act separately otherwise.
The lack of transports really hurts in this way.

Summoning is a neat trick -- but it is not a transport mechanism for most of your force. It's best advantage is letting you pop a deck chair unit onto an objective later in the game. Unlike reserves, you can summon more units on turn 5. Lets say you have a character on objective 1, and objective 2 is 12" away, you can have the character stand 2" away from objective 1, then summon all the units within 2" of objective 2 (provided there are no enemy models on it)
It also lets you, while locked in assault, bring in some reinforcements.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/06/16 14:59:57


 
   
Made in ru
Navigator





70 STR 7, AP-2, Dmg 2 attacks.

That's from every prince on the table. One prince against 25-30 orks (almost point-per-point fight) will kill 4 orks on average - shooting and psychic phase not included as I didn't include orks' shooting in previous post too. So it's 4 wounds against 15, or 15-20% of orks against whole DP. So DPs will be beaten hard by horde armies (nids, orks, guard, etc). Their mobility is superior, yeah, but when you need to get to the point and clear it - well, it'll be kinda sad.

The army also has some hard issues with objectives. There is a lot to be said about having units to just squat on objectives.

That's where the 110 free points from a 2k list on 10 daemon princes comes in - poxwalkers, cultists, and so on will be there. Or the princes will get a round w/o chopping everything in sight and will fly-advance to the point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/16 17:46:26


"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett © 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut



Berlin

 Vexler wrote:

That's from every prince on the table. One prince against 25-30 orks (roughlt point-per-point fight) will kill 4 orks on average - shooting and psychic phase not included as I didn't include orks' shooting in previous post too. So it's 4 wounds against 15, or 15-20% of orks against whole DP. So DPs will be beaten hard by horde armies (nids, orks, guard, etc). Their mobility is superior, yeah, but when you need to get to the point and clear it - well, it'll be kinda sad.


I think your math is off.
DP kill roughly 6 orks in CC, whereas the 15 wounds is before armour from the DP. So with armour (and possibly FNP or 4++) you're looking more at like 5-3 wounds. Looks much better for the prince now.
Also, with around 10 DPs, not every one of them will fight a mob on his own. They'll gang up on the orks.
So it's impossible to mathhammer that fight in a vacuum (well, at least in a sensible way).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/16 17:45:56


 
   
Made in ru
Navigator





Mutter wrote:
 Vexler wrote:

That's from every prince on the table. One prince against 25-30 orks (roughlt point-per-point fight) will kill 4 orks on average - shooting and psychic phase not included as I didn't include orks' shooting in previous post too. So it's 4 wounds against 15, or 15-20% of orks against whole DP. So DPs will be beaten hard by horde armies (nids, orks, guard, etc). Their mobility is superior, yeah, but when you need to get to the point and clear it - well, it'll be kinda sad.


I think your math is off.
DP kill roughly 6 orks in CC, whereas the 15 wounds is before armour from the DP. So with armour (and possibly FNP or 4++) you're looking more at like 5-3 wounds. Looks much better for the prince now.
Also, with around 10 DPs, not every one of them will fight a mob on his own. They'll gang up on the orks.
So it's impossible to mathhammer that fight in a vacuum (well, at least in a sensible way).


30 orks give 120 attacks (2 base + 1 for choppa + 1 for numbers), of which 2/3, or 80 hits. 1/3 wounds (as 4 str against 6 t now wounds on 5+), so it's 26-27 wounds before saves - that's 9 wounds (yeah, miscalulated a bit). Still alomst whole prince for 5 orks.
And at 2k and 10 princes there can be 10 mobs, also.
All the mathhammer is in vacuum, thou, and sense is for weak.

"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett © 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

What makes you think you will be putting once prince vs 30 orks? You should be slamming 2-3 princes into each ork squad.
Ork blobs of 30 boys take up a lot of board space. A player can't concentrate that many blobs in a small area. Princes are on very small bases, so you can. (well, small compared to an ork blob of 30)

Edit : A standard ork swing has a (2/3 (hit) * 1/3 (wound) * 1/3 (failed save) * 2/3 (failed DR)) chance of wounding a nurgle prince. That's a 4/81 chance, or about 1 in 20.
You also will not be able to get all 30 orks attacking at the same time. Again, it's a matter of bases. You might get 20 boys.
That's 80 attacks, or about 2 wounds. The boys rapidly lose that extra attack as their numbers thin.

What happens if 2 princes assault 30 boys + PK nob?
Your princes will likely cast 2 smites on the way in, dealing 4 mortal wounds to the squad. This beans before assaulting, 4 orks are dead.
The princes slam into the squad for a total of 14 attack. They are 35/36 chance to hit * 2/3 chance to wound with no save. 35/54 chance to wound. You can expect 9 orks to be dead from the princes swinging.
That leaves 13 orks dead. The orks will be able to pile around 2 princes so lets say all get their swings.

Of the 17 orks alive, you will have 3 heavy weapons, 1 PK nob and 13 choppas. That's 45 boys attacks going into the princes, doing just over 2 wounds, or 10% of their HP.
The nob swings 3 times with a (1/2 to hit, 2/3 to wound, 2/3 failed save) 2/9 chance to wound. Those 3 swings means that there is a good chance of doing wounds on a prince, which will do 2 wounds - the DR (33%). Lets say another wound is done to the prince.

On the next turn, the orks can activate and do another ~2 wounds to the princes. The princes will then do another 9 to the orks, lowering their numbers down to 8. On the daemon player's turn, he can heal 2 wounds done to a prince, smite another 2 dead, then the clear off the rest of the boys before they can swing.

The next result is 3 wounds done to a prince (since they healed 2 wounds). The squad of 30 boys is dead and the princes lost a total of 15% of their HP.

At this same time, you have another 4 sets of princes doing something similar to other squads.....

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/16 19:51:55


 
   
Made in ru
Navigator





 labmouse42 wrote:
What makes you think you will be putting once prince vs 30 orks?

Mainly because I have 2 ork greentides in my club to face on regular basis.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Ork blobs of 30 boys take up a lot of board space. A player can't concentrate that many blobs in a small area. Princes are on very small bases, so you can. (well, small compared to an ork blob of 30)

Yeah, completely forgot about the bases, my bad. Being in vacuum is kinda disorienting, I think.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Edit : A standard ork swing has a (2/3 (hit) * 1/3 (wound) * 1/3 (failed save) * 2/3 (failed DR)) chance of wounding a nurgle prince. That's a 4/81 chance, or about 1 in 20.

You also will not be able to get all 30 orks attacking at the same time. Again, it's a matter of bases. You might get 20 boys.

I'm thinking about what gods and in what numbers to bring for those 10 DPs and I don't plan on going full Nurgle, Nurgle/Slaanesh with odd Tzeentch or two for 4++ and buffing. Thought about dividing to each god, but Khorne seems really lackluster.

All in all, thanks for the input and corrections, I'm still gona test this thing quite a bit.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/16 20:57:02


"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett © 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut



Berlin

I think Nurgle DP would be best, not only because of FNP, but also because the ability to heal wounds - I think that psychic power might be even more powerful than FNP in the first place.

It will be really difficult to put down more than a couple of DP for good ...
   
Made in us
Frothing Warhound of Chaos





Mutter wrote:
I think Nurgle DP would be best, not only because of FNP, but also because the ability to heal wounds - I think that psychic power might be even more powerful than FNP in the first place.

It will be really difficult to put down more than a couple of DP for good ...


I doubt Fleshy Abundance is going to do much for them.

1-3 wounds healed isn't going to make much of a difference because you can only use it on one DP a turn, but multiple will be taking wounds, and part of the time you're going to peril and lose even more wounds.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Ebolatheripe wrote:
Mutter wrote:
I think Nurgle DP would be best, not only because of FNP, but also because the ability to heal wounds - I think that psychic power might be even more powerful than FNP in the first place.

It will be really difficult to put down more than a couple of DP for good ...


I doubt Fleshy Abundance is going to do much for them.

1-3 wounds healed isn't going to make much of a difference because you can only use it on one DP a turn, but multiple will be taking wounds, and part of the time you're going to peril and lose even more wounds.
I've found it to be useful. When I have a DP down to 1 or 2 wounds, I can get him back up to 3 or 4.
   
Made in us
Frothing Warhound of Chaos





 labmouse42 wrote:
 Ebolatheripe wrote:
Mutter wrote:
I think Nurgle DP would be best, not only because of FNP, but also because the ability to heal wounds - I think that psychic power might be even more powerful than FNP in the first place.

It will be really difficult to put down more than a couple of DP for good ...


I doubt Fleshy Abundance is going to do much for them.

1-3 wounds healed isn't going to make much of a difference because you can only use it on one DP a turn, but multiple will be taking wounds, and part of the time you're going to peril and lose even more wounds.
I've found it to be useful. When I have a DP down to 1 or 2 wounds, I can get him back up to 3 or 4.


I'm not saying I think it's useless, but I don't think it's going to be much of a factor most of the time, and certainly not worth spamming in preference to the other spells.

You have to survive shooting and a CC phase in order to cast it, to heal back so few wounds. I would have preferred if they made it +1 or +2 to toughness or something.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut



Berlin

Well, with 10 or 11 DP there is no reason to not spam it. :-P
You'll have each power 3-4 times, so lot's of redundancy.

And yes, getting to only use it once isn't gonna mean the world, but like labmouse42 said, sometimes it's the difference between a DP dying and getting ready again to join the fray.

Just another obnoxious thing for your opponent to get annoyed about ...
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

Again guys -- I do NOT recommend rushing out out and buying 9 DPs plus Be'Lakor.
We can bet that this will be brought back in line with the next codex.

GW has made it clear they plan on dropping the codex's pretty quickly.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/17 12:48:39


 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 labmouse42 wrote:
Again guys -- I do NOT recommend rushing out out and buying 9 DPs plus Be'Lakor.
We can bet that this will be brought back in line with the next codex.

GW has made it clear they plan on dropping the codex's pretty quickly.

Agree on not going out to buy a bunch. However, I still plan on using my Tetrad + Belakor because
A) I've had the models since before the Tetrad was a thing
B) they are cheaper, so I can actually take a decent army in addition to them
C) it gives me an untargetable <Character> (CSM ones) for each alignment + Belakor, just in case I want to use Daemonic Ritual.

I might even take Magnus and a Tsons Heldrake.

   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

So the digital version of the chaos index is out. Best 19.99 I've spent this week, for sure. A lot of interesting stuff in there. They finally appropriately costed the Daemon Lords, and I think any of them would be fine to take for their intended purpose.

An'ggrath kills literally everything, but isn't great against hordes (RIP stompy feet....like I get that his power is budgeted elsewhere, and typically he doesn't care to swing at Ork boyz, but I could see him getting counter charged and bogged down for a turn or two, especially if Nids have their synapse nearby. Bodies for days.) He's also substantially cheaper than he used to be, but you'll still need to build an army around him.

Big Bird is pretty similar to the last edition (will not die for forever) but they made his staff more targeted against vehicles/monsters based on its stat line....that being said you do get a bonus for hitting infantry and it's not bad vs them but it feels like a bit of a waste. He's not An'ggrath in combat, but he's certainly not a slouch. His reflector shield works a little differently...and it is slightly ambiguous but basically you still don't want to target him with psychic powers....shocking. And he's still a spiteful little dude. He's actually level with An'ggrath in points now.

Zarakynel is a lot cheaper than she used to be, and cheaper than any of the other Daemon lords, but not a lot worse (which is good, because she was previously overcosted). Has a decent shot of ignoring invulnerable saves. Feels kind of like a discount An'ggrath, because she is going to be a melee monster. Is not much more than half of An'ggrath's cost, but obviously isn't as good or as durable (though in melee she could be slightly more durable). Plus she can weave in and out of combat more effectively and has an excellent Ld debut aura, which will make up for her not having a ton of attacks.

Scabby...whoever wrote this book really likes you. Not because he's super broken or anything, but listen to this excerpt from the book (it doesn't cover any actual rules but MODS feel free to remove this if it violates copyright - it just had me dying)

"Scabeithrax the Bloated is a single model. He wields the nightmarish Blade of Decay at whose touch all flesh rots, stone crumbles and metal corrodes to dust, while from his stomach he can project vast sprays of lethally infected which kills those it covers with unimaginable suffering"

And there's more, and that's just how they tell you what he's equipped with. For comparison, Zarakynel they're literally just like "it wields this deadly weapon and also has this other weapon"

Ok but so that does he actually do? He's...well...disgustingly resilient, but that shocks no one. He's a little abnormally resilient in melee, but in a different way than Zarakynel, and that's the aura buff he provides. His buff actually transcends to all daemonic alignments though. Might be the best greater deamon to take in a mixed gods list...although Zarakynel is still cheaper and An'ggrath is still more killy, though more expensive. I think he's probably the best mix of both offense and defense, and probably the best value for the points. He's actually the least resilient of the greater daemons against small arms fire, but still by no means a slouch. For reference, let's math it out. You would need...300 rapid firing boltguns to kill him
   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh





 luke1705 wrote:
So the digital version of the chaos index is out. Best 19.99 I've spent this week, for sure. A lot of interesting stuff in there. They finally appropriately costed the Daemon Lords, and I think any of them would be fine to take for their intended purpose.

An'ggrath kills literally everything, but isn't great against hordes (RIP stompy feet....like I get that his power is budgeted elsewhere, and typically he doesn't care to swing at Ork boyz, but I could see him getting counter charged and bogged down for a turn or two, especially if Nids have their synapse nearby. Bodies for days.) He's also substantially cheaper than he used to be, but you'll still need to build an army around him.

Big Bird is pretty similar to the last edition (will not die for forever) but they made his staff more targeted against vehicles/monsters based on its stat line....that being said you do get a bonus for hitting infantry and it's not bad vs them but it feels like a bit of a waste. He's not An'ggrath in combat, but he's certainly not a slouch. His reflector shield works a little differently...and it is slightly ambiguous but basically you still don't want to target him with psychic powers....shocking. And he's still a spiteful little dude. He's actually level with An'ggrath in points now.

Zarakynel is a lot cheaper than she used to be, and cheaper than any of the other Daemon lords, but not a lot worse (which is good, because she was previously overcosted). Has a decent shot of ignoring invulnerable saves. Feels kind of like a discount An'ggrath, because she is going to be a melee monster. Is not much more than half of An'ggrath's cost, but obviously isn't as good or as durable (though in melee she could be slightly more durable). Plus she can weave in and out of combat more effectively and has an excellent Ld debut aura, which will make up for her not having a ton of attacks.

Scabby...whoever wrote this book really likes you. Not because he's super broken or anything, but listen to this excerpt from the book (it doesn't cover any actual rules but MODS feel free to remove this if it violates copyright - it just had me dying)

"Scabeithrax the Bloated is a single model. He wields the nightmarish Blade of Decay at whose touch all flesh rots, stone crumbles and metal corrodes to dust, while from his stomach he can project vast sprays of lethally infected which kills those it covers with unimaginable suffering"

And there's more, and that's just how they tell you what he's equipped with. For comparison, Zarakynel they're literally just like "it wields this deadly weapon and also has this other weapon"

Ok but so that does he actually do? He's...well...disgustingly resilient, but that shocks no one. He's a little abnormally resilient in melee, but in a different way than Zarakynel, and that's the aura buff he provides. His buff actually transcends to all daemonic alignments though. Might be the best greater deamon to take in a mixed gods list...although Zarakynel is still cheaper and An'ggrath is still more killy, though more expensive. I think he's probably the best mix of both offense and defense, and probably the best value for the points. He's actually the least resilient of the greater daemons against small arms fire, but still by no means a slouch. For reference, let's math it out. You would need...300 rapid firing boltguns to kill him
Zerakynal may actually be more choppy than angrath because she can cast hysterical frenzy upon herself to attack twice in a turn.
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






The Khorne one just seems... really bad by comparison...

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

Yesterday I tried a mono-nurgle army for giggles. This is roughly what ran
Spoiler:
Greater Unclean One
DP of Nurgle
Herald of Nurgle
Herald of Nurgle
Herald of Nurgle

30 Plaugebearers w/Banner + Music
30 Plaugebearers w/Banner + Music
6 Nurglings
6 Nurglings
7 Nurglings

9 Plauge Drones of Nurgle
I played another chaos army. He brought some seekers, CSM terminators, Magnus, some Horrors, Slaanesh DP, and some daemonettes.

He rushed forward with his seekers and did a turn one assault with 15 seekers on my plague drones. They bounced off, doing only 2 wounds. The drones proceeded to kill all of the seekers. They moved up and assaulted a Slaanesh DP and murdered him. The last time I used plague drones they were lackluster, but this game they really stood up. The drones doing 2 wounds a pop is what took down the prince. He failed 4 saves and lost 8 wounds from just the drones.

Magnus was a beast. He tore through plague drones and single handedly wiped out 8 of them. He is just such a monster. He was throwing out multiple mortal wounds per round, getting 2d6 mortal wounds at once time. Magnus also prevented me from getting most of my powers off.

The plaguebeaers were better than I expected. He dropped his terminators next to magnus on turn one and killed my DP with focused fire from magnus and those termies. Combi-meltas hurt! I slammed into them with 30 plaguebearers, the GUO and a herald. It took 3 combat rounds, but they took him down. One problem with large groups of plaguebearers is that many of them could not get into combat. Overall the blocks performed much better than expected. His various power weapons did nothing significant against the plaugebearers. Over the entire combat he managed to kill ~4 of them, which repawned from the banner. I think 2 blocks is just a bit overkill though, and I can probably run with just 1 block.

The nurglings were great. The 4 wounds per block plus the ability to infiltrate makes them great drops. I was able to just pop them onto an objective and hide out of sight. When I had a herald near a block they were STR 3, which made them much more of a threat. The best thing about them was their ability to tie things up. I can see them really being useful to occupy havocs, etc...

The banner and instruments are musts in large blocks. Through the use of a command point reroll, I got a plague drone back -- which made up the points and kept them occupying Magnus for another round. The banners also procc'ed twice with plaguebringers, which was just hilarious. After killing the 10 terminators the plague bearers were at their original strength.

The GUO is solid. However, I don't think it will make the long term cut for the army. If I am going to keep going mono-nurgle, I'm going to need to add some ranged. I'm currently thinking of some forgefiends of nurgle or a renegade knight.

Three heralds was overkill, and just not effective. I'll probably pull it back to 1 herald and epidemus. Since forgefiends of nurgle are daemons of nurgle, they really benifit from the tallymaster. With just 2 units dead, they are rerolling 1s to hit. In my LFGS I'm noticing a trend for people to try to bring less drops to go first. This lessens the value of the tallymaster but it's still a good idea IMHO.

The biggest takeaway I had was this : I took a random theme army and put it on the table, and expected to get stomped. My buddy is a highly competitive national tournament winner player. He outmaneuvered me and did a great job. However, the nurgle army performed admirably well, and honestly with some tweaking could be viable. That speaks volumes for 7th edition.
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut





Interesting insight Labmouse =).

So you would only play one Block of 30 Plaguebearers, kick the GUO, maybe some oft the Nurglings and go down 1 Herald and replace the other with Edpidemius.

I think that frees up more than 500 Points. You could also use Belakor or more Nurgleprinces. Maybe keep the rest for summoning?
   
Made in gb
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer





Kazakhstan

 labmouse42 wrote:
What makes you think you will be putting once prince vs 30 orks? You should be slamming 2-3 princes into each ork squad.
Ork blobs of 30 boys take up a lot of board space. A player can't concentrate that many blobs in a small area. Princes are on very small bases, so you can. (well, small compared to an ork blob of 30)

Edit : A standard ork swing has a (2/3 (hit) * 1/3 (wound) * 1/3 (failed save) * 2/3 (failed DR)) chance of wounding a nurgle prince. That's a 4/81 chance, or about 1 in 20.
You also will not be able to get all 30 orks attacking at the same time. Again, it's a matter of bases. You might get 20 boys.
That's 80 attacks, or about 2 wounds. The boys rapidly lose that extra attack as their numbers thin.

What happens if 2 princes assault 30 boys + PK nob?
Your princes will likely cast 2 smites on the way in, dealing 4 mortal wounds to the squad. This beans before assaulting, 4 orks are dead.
The princes slam into the squad for a total of 14 attack. They are 35/36 chance to hit * 2/3 chance to wound with no save. 35/54 chance to wound. You can expect 9 orks to be dead from the princes swinging.
That leaves 13 orks dead. The orks will be able to pile around 2 princes so lets say all get their swings.

Of the 17 orks alive, you will have 3 heavy weapons, 1 PK nob and 13 choppas. That's 45 boys attacks going into the princes, doing just over 2 wounds, or 10% of their HP.
The nob swings 3 times with a (1/2 to hit, 2/3 to wound, 2/3 failed save) 2/9 chance to wound. Those 3 swings means that there is a good chance of doing wounds on a prince, which will do 2 wounds - the DR (33%). Lets say another wound is done to the prince.

On the next turn, the orks can activate and do another ~2 wounds to the princes. The princes will then do another 9 to the orks, lowering their numbers down to 8. On the daemon player's turn, he can heal 2 wounds done to a prince, smite another 2 dead, then the clear off the rest of the boys before they can swing.

The next result is 3 wounds done to a prince (since they healed 2 wounds). The squad of 30 boys is dead and the princes lost a total of 15% of their HP.

At this same time, you have another 4 sets of princes doing something similar to other squads.....



Aside from the Ork issue, how would 10 DP deal with 3 Ravages, Predators or anything else that can throw out a lot of damage per shot?
   
Made in ru
Navigator





I'd say tank'n'gank - close in with nurgle/tzeentch DPs and|or Belakor who will summon reserved princes when in range - then smites come in. Laso, maneuvering - if you come from flanks with multiple rinces, that'll thin the overall firepower hitting each DP. That's in theory, thou.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/18 19:53:19


"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett © 
   
Made in gb
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer





Kazakhstan

 Vexler wrote:
I'd say tank'n'gank - close in with nurgle/tzeentch DPs and|or Belakor who will summon reserved princes when in range - then smites come in. Laso, maneuvering - if you come from flanks with multiple rinces, that'll thin the overall firepower hitting each DP. That's in theory, thou.



In a typical 'competitive' dark eldar army you'll likely to face 12 dark lances. That;s 8 hits, 5 wounds, 3+ failed saves, each doing D6 damage. Combined with the splinter cannon fire means a prince or 2 dead on turn one. The closer you get the more shots you'll face.

It has the same issue with a guard army running duel Manticores and Wvyerns. I just don't see their strength in the face of an equally spammy army.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/18 23:54:11


 
   
Made in gb
Water-Caste Negotiator




Many people are recommending large squads for things like Daemonettes. I understand that people are trying to get the most value out of instruments and herald bonuses (harder to provide the aura bonuses to multiple smaller squads), but what's the plan for mitigating morale losses?

   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





Asura Varuna wrote:
Many people are recommending large squads for things like Daemonettes. I understand that people are trying to get the most value out of instruments and herald bonuses (harder to provide the aura bonuses to multiple smaller squads), but what's the plan for mitigating morale losses?

Why does it matter? its not like small squads are suddenly immune to morale

If it were an actual issue you can just spend 2CP to pass the morale test

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/18 21:34:52


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Do lashing tongues (or mount attacks in general) benefit from herald +1 str auras?
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: